ExiledAjax Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 16 hours ago, REDOXO said: They are selling the players registration not the contract. I’m not sure how this would be viewed under DCFC circumstances, but players are sold almost everyday that the club still owe money on. But not by insolvent clubs who use a moratorium over claims to protect themselves from being sued by the club that is owed money. That is what Derby/Quantuma seem to have done here, if I understand it correctly. They owe LP, but have sold Jozwiak's contract/registration, and banked cash for it. They should send that onto LP, but know that LP cannot actually sue them right now, and as a non-English club are not protected b the EFL's rules. Derby/Quantuma are exploiting their insolvent position to avoid having to pay LP now. They may have to pay in the future, but they're gambling that by then they will either have a buyer - and so can afford the payment, or will have liquidated, and so the contract between them and LP will have been voided. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: But not by insolvent clubs who use a moratorium over claims to protect themselves from being sued by the club that is owed money. That is what Derby/Quantuma seem to have done here, if I understand it correctly. They owe LP, but have sold Jozwiak's contract/registration, and banked cash for it. They should send that onto LP, but know that LP cannot actually sue them right now, and as a non-English club are not protected b the EFL's rules. Derby/Quantuma are exploiting their insolvent position to avoid having to pay LP now. They may have to pay in the future, but they're gambling that by then they will either have a buyer - and so can afford the payment, or will have liquidated, and so the contract between them and LP will have been voided. I agree. However the transfer got approval on legal/ contractual/international registration grounds and it would appear the EFL/FA did not see any grounds to withhold his registration being moved to the USA or US Soccer saw no reason to not accept that registration. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, REDOXO said: I agree. However the transfer got approval on legal/ contractual/international registration grounds and it would appear the EFL/FA did not see any grounds to withhold his registration being moved to the USA or US Soccer saw no reason to not accept that registration. I think we are agreeing! Yes, my view is there are two dodgy things happening. The one I point out, and the one you point out. Poznan should be absolutely fuming with everyone involved. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 hours ago, GrahamC said: Rumour going around yesterday that they could be liquidated at the end of the season but allowed to start the new one in L2. Definitely sailing closer to the brink than any big club (with no disrespect intended to Bury) since Boro back in ‘86. Even the thought of that really pisses me off. The supposed/apparent size of the Club makes no difference as to what division they play in. Wimbledon won the FA Cup, played at the top, Man City were in Div 3 & Wolve Div4. Wimbledon & Bury weren't allowed to start in L2, why Derby? Specially as they have played fast and loose with any rules they thought they could get around. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: I think we are agreeing! Yes, my view is there are two dodgy things happening. The one I point out, and the one you point out. Poznan should be absolutely fuming with everyone involved. They should be fuming. It would appear The Football Authorities (and there are a few differing organizations involved) Have allowed this to happen. I would suggest they would argue that they had no standing to stop it. IE Derby are not breaking any rules from a football administration stand point. Some new rules or rule tightening is required to stop this happening in future. I think someone mentioned the Harford scenario up the thread, it seems foreign clubs like LP don’t get the player back, or what happened then is no longer applicable. By the way Maguire has a new poddy out today. Nothing on Derby so far. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 17 minutes ago, 1960maaan said: Even the thought of that really pisses me off. The supposed/apparent size of the Club makes no difference as to what division they play in. Wimbledon won the FA Cup, played at the top, Man City were in Div 3 & Wolve Div4. Wimbledon & Bury weren't allowed to start in L2, why Derby? Specially as they have played fast and loose with any rules they thought they could get around. There is some serious litigation heading the EFL's way, I would assume, if that happens. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 I suspect most observers, Derby fans or further afield, share a common view that Quantuma’s handling of the administration has been totally incompetent and unprofessional; even scandalous if this latest story is correct. Whilst, in normal circumstances, none of us would wish liquidation on a fellow football club, with all the heartache for innocent fans and financial distress to creditors, especially small local businesses, I am now sort of hoping that it does happen, even more so as I have heard it mentioned that Mel Morris was instrumental in Quantuma’s appointment. The icing on the cake would be for any phoenix club to be prevented from staying in the EFL and for MM to be left with his stadium as an empty white elephant and still in hock to Dell. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: I suspect most observers, Derby fans or further afield, share a common view that Quantuma’s handling of the administration has been totally incompetent and unprofessional; even scandalous if this latest story is correct. Whilst, in normal circumstances, none of us would wish liquidation on a fellow football club, with all the heartache for innocent fans and financial distress to creditors, especially small local businesses, I am now sort of hoping that it does happen, even more so as I have heard it mentioned that Mel Morris was instrumental in Quantuma’s appointment. The icing on the cake would be for any phoenix club to be prevented from staying in the EFL and for MM to be left with his stadium as an empty white elephant and still in hock to Dell. Didn't I read that the Club were advised against appointing them ? Not sure whether they are corrupt or incompetent , if Morris had a hand in the appointment, I know where my money is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, 1960maaan said: Didn't I read that the Club were advised against appointing them ? Not sure whether they are corrupt or incompetent , if Morris had a hand in the appointment, I know where my money is. Probably both. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said: I think we are agreeing! Yes, my view is there are two dodgy things happening. The one I point out, and the one you point out. Poznan should be absolutely fuming with everyone involved. At the point the transfer was being concluded, Derby / Quantuma had already missed the payment. Transfer should not have been allowed to progress. I believe funds go through FIFA escrow accounts for international transfers. If Charlotte paid Derby direct, that is wrong. Erik Alonso, one time potential buyer at Derby, is allegedly at Charlotte, although Charlotte deny it. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy1968 Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 22 minutes ago, 1960maaan said: Didn't I read that the Club were advised against appointing them ? Not sure whether they are corrupt or incompetent , if Morris had a hand in the appointment, I know where my money is. As owner MM put the club into administration, and got to choose the insolvency practitioner. See here for further info. I think you'd probably be safer calling them incompetent than corrupt. If they sue for libel, you might find that's one thing that they're good at. They'd probably have long list of people to go after - perhaps that's part of their ultimate business plan. Genius. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 50 minutes ago, 1960maaan said: Didn't I read that the Club were advised against appointing them ? Not sure whether they are corrupt or incompetent , if Morris had a hand in the appointment, I know where my money is. Maguire suggested that they ended up with Quantuma because no reputable insolvency practitioner would take it on. Their particular concern was that Morris had not put the company owning the stadium into administration. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 Out of interest, when Quantuma were appointed, they were announced as “joint administrator”….is that because they are working jointly with Derby. If so, then is Morris still in effect, involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 14 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Out of interest, when Quantuma were appointed, they were announced as “joint administrator”….is that because they are working jointly with Derby. If so, then is Morris still in effect, involved? The wording on the press release is ambiguous: https://www.quantuma.com/insights/quantuma-appointed-joint-administrators-derby-county-football-club "Andrew Hosking, Quantuma managing director and joint administrator, said: “I can confirm that Andrew Andronikou, Carl Jackson and I were appointed joint administrators of Derby County FC today." All three work for Quantuma. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Out of interest, when Quantuma were appointed, they were announced as “joint administrator”….is that because they are working jointly with Derby. If so, then is Morris still in effect, involved? No Dave. An administrator is an individual person. Those people work for Q, and so people refer to them as "Quantuma". But legally the administrators are Hosking, Andronikou, and Jackson. It is they who are 'joint'. They act as individuals, and have personal liability. You appoint multiple so that there is always someone who can sign stuff and deal for the Company. 2 minutes ago, Marvin said: The wording on the press release is ambiguous: https://www.quantuma.com/insights/quantuma-appointed-joint-administrators-derby-county-football-club "Andrew Hosking, Quantuma managing director and joint administrator, said: “I can confirm that Andrew Andronikou, Carl Jackson and I were appointed joint administrators of Derby County FC today." All three work for Quantuma. It is not ambiguous on the companies house filing form 30 Sep 2021. Edited March 17, 2022 by ExiledAjax 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: No Dave. An administrator is an individual person. Those people work for Q, and so people refer to them as "Quantuma". But legally the administrators are Hosking, Andronikou, and Jackson. It is they who are 'joint'. It is not ambiguous on the companies house filing form 30 Sep 2021. Ah, yes….it’s all coming back to me now. Ta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: No Dave. An administrator is an individual person. Those people work for Q, and so people refer to them as "Quantuma". But legally the administrators are Hosking, Andronikou, and Jackson. It is they who are 'joint'. They act as individuals, and have personal liability. You appoint multiple so that there is always someone who can sign stuff and deal for the Company. It is not ambiguous on the companies house filing form 30 Sep 2021. Thanks EA, I had read it as 'Quantuma' had been appointed as joint administrators i.e. Quantuma as an entity and A N Other. All makes sense now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Marvin said: Thanks EA, I had read it as 'Quantuma' had been appointed as joint administrators i.e. Quantuma as an entity and A N Other. All makes sense now. Lazy writing doesn't help either. We all do it as it's quicker to write "Quantuma" etc, but technically those individuals are acting in their own capacity. Same with most professions. People act individually, but form partnerships or practices with others in order to share overheads, costs, and insurance etc. Insolvency professionals are just like that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, GrahamC said: Rumour going around yesterday that they could be liquidated at the end of the season but allowed to start the new one in L2. Definitely sailing closer to the brink than any big club (with no disrespect intended to Bury) since Boro back in ‘86. This would be an utter disgrace. I don’t care how “big” Derby are, they should feel the full force of the EFL (and HMRC etc) start again in the Dog and Duck league and be grateful. League Two is no punishment at all. Edited March 17, 2022 by CyderInACan 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, CyderInACan said: This would be an utter disgrace. I don’t care how “big” Derby are, they should feel the full force of the EFL (and HMRC etc) start again in the Dog and Duck league and be grateful. League Two is no punishment at all. The Dog and Duck have never been promoted or relegated. They have somehow been less successful than Rochdale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said: The Dog and Duck have never been promoted or relegated. They have somehow been less successful than Rochdale. That's because they've never been Wayne Rooney's Dog and Duck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, downendcity said: That's because they've never been Wayne Rooney's Dog and Duck. is that Cockney rhyming slang? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, exAtyeoMax said: is that Cockney rhyming slang? WRDC do appear to be Dog and Duck'd don't they? , 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow&Blue&Red Posted March 18, 2022 Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 15 hours ago, CyderInACan said: This would be an utter disgrace. I don’t care how “big” Derby are, they should feel the full force of the EFL (and HMRC etc) start again in the Dog and Duck league and be grateful. League Two is no punishment at all. That feels harsh to me. And it's punishing the wrong people. Morris and the administrators are the culprits here but this wouldn't hurt them much. This would just hit employees and fans. And would mean NONE of the debts being repaid. I don't think they should get gifted a place in L2 if they go bust, that's not fair either. But I'm not HOPING they go bust. I hope that they get relegated, they find a buyer at a price that makes sense for L1, that as much of their debt as possible is repaid and they start next season with a hefty points deduction. That feels proportionate to the crime of fiddling FFP. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 18, 2022 Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, Yellow&Blue&Red said: That feels harsh to me. And it's punishing the wrong people. Morris and the administrators are the culprits here but this wouldn't hurt them much. This would just hit employees and fans. And would mean NONE of the debts being repaid. I don't think they should get gifted a place in L2 if they go bust, that's not fair either. But I'm not HOPING they go bust. I hope that they get relegated, they find a buyer at a price that makes sense for L1, that as much of their debt as possible is repaid and they start next season with a hefty points deduction. That feels proportionate to the crime of fiddling FFP. Derby fans on twitter starting to see Quantuma as the devil now they can’t blame Gibson, the EFL, Mr Pops (), etc. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Londoner Posted March 18, 2022 Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 16 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Derby fans on twitter starting to see Quantuma as the devil now they can’t blame Gibson, the EFL, Mr Pops (), etc. Forests forum has an amusing list of people Derby fans are blaming, currently at 145 so too long to screenshot and no Mr Pops in sight https://www.forestforum.co.uk/threads/44511-The-demise-of-Wayne-Rooney-s-D***y-County-(in-Administration)-(and-denial)/page944 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted March 18, 2022 Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, East Londoner said: Forests forum has an amusing list of people Derby fans are blaming, currently at 145 so too long to screenshot and no Mr Pops in sight https://www.forestforum.co.uk/threads/44511-The-demise-of-Wayne-Rooney-s-D***y-County-(in-Administration)-(and-denial)/page944 No Lee Johnson? 46. Ugg (the caveman that created football, leading to the creation of the EFL) 61. Holland & Barrett. Edited March 18, 2022 by exAtyeoMax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted March 18, 2022 Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 15 minutes ago, East Londoner said: Forests forum has an amusing list of people Derby fans are blaming, currently at 145 so too long to screenshot and no Mr Pops in sight https://www.forestforum.co.uk/threads/44511-The-demise-of-Wayne-Rooney-s-D***y-County-(in-Administration)-(and-denial)/page944 The new and improved official Derby County blame list: 1. The EFL 2. Steve Gibson 3. Neil Bausor 4. Middlesbrough 5. Rob Couhig 6. Wycombe 7. Covid 8. The ticket office 9. The HMRC 10. Nicholas Randall 11. Trevor Birch 12. Darren Bent 13. Steve McClaren 14. Danny Higginbotham 15. Richard Keogh 16. The European Super League 17. Sky Sports 18. The Football League paper 19. Burton Albion 20. Derby City Council 21. Mind (the mental health charity) 22. Opposition fans 23. The taxpayer 24. Derby's creditors 25. Forest fans that sit in the Upper Bridgford 26. Rick Parry 27. Brice Samba 28. Jack Colback 29. Simon Jordan 30. ITV Digital 31. Setanta 32. Brian Clough 33. Juventus 34. Tim Robinson 35. Lewis Grabban 36. Brennan Johnson 37. Kenny Burns 38. Nigel Clough 39. Billy Davies 40. LTLF 41. Rockabilly and his curse 42. Derby fans (whilst also being blameless at the same time) 43. Stan Collymore 44. Leeds United 45. Ed Dawes 46. Ugg (the caveman that created football, leading to the creation of the EFL) 47. Scott McKenna (for heading aeroplanes away that may contain investors, thus preventing Derby's takeover) 48. OK SpidermAndy! (for upsetting Derby fans by querying how long it will be before Derby fans nick Liverpool's "You'll Never Walk Alone" chant) 49. John Percy 50. Rob Dorsett 51. FFSForest (a Twitter user who pointed out how the absence of Derby's "unreal" supporters this season has cost them around £5m, which would help them complete the season. Clearly an EFL stooge!) 52. 166,000 empty seats (probably the fault of the seat manufacturer, rather than their "unreal" fans though) 53. Forest selling players to Olympiacos 54. Liverpool fans, Sheffield police and the Hillsboro/Govt report (making stadiums all seater prevented them from selling 60k every game) 55. Lyle Taylor 56. Adrian Durham 57. Luke Plange and Crystal Palace 58. Matt Donohue 59. Duane Holmes 60. Beardo7 and his £10 bet 61. Holland & Barrett 62. Bobby Zamora 63. Goalposts 64. Kim Leck 65. Aston Villa 66. Myself 67. The Mysterons 68. Captain Black 69. Shaggy 70. The Queen 71. RealRed85 72. Billingham Synthonia FC 73. Text messages 74. Congo_red (for daring to use facts) 75. Chevin Homes (the "preferred" partner in property) 76. Gianluca Di Marzio 77. Pozzo family (Udinese/Watford) 78. Brexit 79. Derby's Category 1 academy 80. Adam Hart-Davis 81. Birmingham City fans 82. Derby forum users Gritstone Tup and Mucker1884 (for breaking away from the hive mind and going against the narrative) 83. Chris Kirchner 84. Chris Doidge (blasphemous BBC Radio Derby presenter) 85. Daniel Taylor 86. Hasbro 87. From Software 88. Atari 89. 32 Red 90. Sheffield Wednesday fans 91. Bouncer the dog 92. Sam Longson 93. Alcohol 94. Leicester City 95. MaxiRobriguez 96. The MLS 97. The Joiners Arms in Quarndon 98. Highways England 99. Middlesbrough fans bringing facts onto Derby's forum 100. Ze list 101. Darren Huckerby 102. Del Boy and Rodney 103. Harry Enfield 104. Jeremy Simpson 105. Mason Bennett 106. Tom Lawrence 107. Ball boys 108. Scott Malone 109. Tubby pitch invaders 110. Kenny Loggins 111. Nathan Thompson 112. Vladimir Putin 113. MPs 114. "Fake" deadlines 115. The Derby Telegraph 116. The Twitter user @derbyram76 (aka Leitrim Ram) (for creating his own version of ze list) 117. Boris Johnson 118. Daleks 119. Derbyshire Mortgage Services (blasphemous mortgage firm) 120. Pancake day 121. Doctor Who and their companions 122. I'm Red Till Dead 123. BBC Radio Derby 124. Colin Fray 125. Uche Ikpeazu 126. Sky Bet 127. Mitchell and Webb 128. Cardiff City fans 129. Bungle from Rainbow (his coke addiction is causing confusion in the Quantuma offices, thus preventing Derby's takeover) 130. Notcher 131. Whoever at Nottingham Forest is asking the EFL to lobby FIFA to let players at Russian clubs walk away from their contracts 132. Chelsea 133. DC Comics 134. Preston North End 135. Billy Joel 136. Igor Novikov 137. Ben Smyth (treacherous "Derby fan" on Twitter slandering Derby's "amazing" supporters) 138. Joel Moore (another Derby traitor on Twitter who is going against the "Fight 'till the end" narrative) 139. Lech Poznan (for having the audacity to ask for money owed to them) 140. Kieran Maguire 141. Truth 142. HBB 143. Evangelos Marinakis 144. David (moderator on the DCFC Fans forum) 145. "Interested parties" 2 1 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted March 18, 2022 Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 5 hours ago, East Londoner said: Forests forum has an amusing list of people Derby fans are blaming, currently at 145 so too long to screenshot and no Mr Pops in sight https://www.forestforum.co.uk/threads/44511-The-demise-of-Wayne-Rooney-s-D***y-County-(in-Administration)-(and-denial)/page944 Looking at that, makes me thankful for what the admins and developers do here. The site is almost unreadable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted March 18, 2022 Report Share Posted March 18, 2022 5 hours ago, Marvin said: 91. Bouncer the dog and his mate, Wellard… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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