Derby County

[ExiledAjax]

16 hours ago, REDOXO said:

They are selling the players registration not the contract. I’m not sure how this would be viewed under DCFC circumstances, but players are sold almost everyday that the club still owe money on. 

But not by insolvent clubs who use a moratorium over claims to protect themselves from being sued by the club that is owed money. That is what Derby/Quantuma seem to have done here, if I understand it correctly. They owe LP, but have sold Jozwiak's contract/registration, and banked cash for it. They should send that onto LP, but know that LP cannot actually sue them right now, and as a non-English club are not protected b the EFL's rules. Derby/Quantuma are exploiting their insolvent position to avoid having to pay LP now. They may have to pay in the future, but they're gambling that by then they will either have a buyer - and so can afford the payment, or will have liquidated, and so the contract between them and LP will have been voided.

[REDOXO]

5 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

But not by insolvent clubs who use a moratorium over claims to protect themselves from being sued by the club that is owed money. That is what Derby/Quantuma seem to have done here, if I understand it correctly. They owe LP, but have sold Jozwiak's contract/registration, and banked cash for it. They should send that onto LP, but know that LP cannot actually sue them right now, and as a non-English club are not protected b the EFL's rules. Derby/Quantuma are exploiting their insolvent position to avoid having to pay LP now. They may have to pay in the future, but they're gambling that by then they will either have a buyer - and so can afford the payment, or will have liquidated, and so the contract between them and LP will have been voided.

I agree. However the transfer got approval on legal/ contractual/international registration grounds and it would appear the EFL/FA did not see any grounds to withhold his registration being moved to the USA or US Soccer saw no reason to not accept that registration. 
 

 

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I agree. However the transfer got approval on legal/ contractual/international registration grounds and it would appear the EFL/FA did not see any grounds to withhold his registration being moved to the USA or US Soccer saw no reason to not accept that registration. 

I think we are agreeing!

Yes, my view is there are two dodgy things happening. The one I point out, and the one you point out. Poznan should be absolutely fuming with everyone involved.

[1960maaan]

3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Rumour going around yesterday that they could be liquidated at the end of the season but allowed to start the new one in L2.

Definitely sailing closer to the brink than any big club (with no disrespect intended to Bury) since Boro back in ‘86.

Even the thought of that really pisses me off. 
The supposed/apparent size of the Club makes no difference as to what division they play in. Wimbledon won the FA Cup, played at the top, Man City were in Div 3 & Wolve Div4. Wimbledon & Bury weren't allowed to start in L2, why Derby?  Specially as they have played fast and loose with any rules they thought they could get around. 

[REDOXO]

7 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I think we are agreeing!

Yes, my view is there are two dodgy things happening. The one I point out, and the one you point out. Poznan should be absolutely fuming with everyone involved.

They should be fuming. It would appear The Football Authorities (and there are a few differing organizations involved) Have allowed this to happen. I would suggest they would argue that they had no standing to stop it. IE Derby are not breaking any rules from a football administration stand point. Some new rules or rule tightening is required to stop this happening in future. I think someone mentioned the Harford scenario up the thread, it seems foreign clubs like LP don’t get the player back, or what happened then is no longer applicable. 
 

By the way Maguire has a new poddy out today. Nothing on Derby so far. 

[Ska Junkie]

17 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Even the thought of that really pisses me off. 
The supposed/apparent size of the Club makes no difference as to what division they play in. Wimbledon won the FA Cup, played at the top, Man City were in Div 3 & Wolve Div4. Wimbledon & Bury weren't allowed to start in L2, why Derby?  Specially as they have played fast and loose with any rules they thought they could get around. 

There is some serious litigation heading the EFL's way, I would assume, if that happens.

[PHILINFRANCE]

I suspect most observers, Derby fans or further afield, share a common view that Quantuma’s handling of the administration has been totally incompetent and unprofessional; even scandalous if this latest story is correct.

Whilst, in normal circumstances, none of us would wish liquidation on a fellow football club, with all the heartache for innocent fans and financial distress to creditors, especially small local businesses, I am now sort of hoping that it does happen, even more so as I have heard it mentioned that Mel Morris was instrumental in Quantuma’s appointment.

The icing on the cake would be for any phoenix club to be prevented from staying in the EFL and for MM to be left with his stadium as an empty white elephant and still in hock to Dell.

[1960maaan]

9 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I suspect most observers, Derby fans or further afield, share a common view that Quantuma’s handling of the administration has been totally incompetent and unprofessional; even scandalous if this latest story is correct.

Whilst, in normal circumstances, none of us would wish liquidation on a fellow football club, with all the heartache for innocent fans and financial distress to creditors, especially small local businesses, I am now sort of hoping that it does happen, even more so as I have heard it mentioned that Mel Morris was instrumental in Quantuma’s appointment.

The icing on the cake would be for any phoenix club to be prevented from staying in the EFL and for MM to be left with his stadium as an empty white elephant and still in hock to Dell.

Didn't I read that the Club were advised against appointing them ?

Not sure whether they are corrupt or incompetent , if Morris had a hand in the appointment, I know where my money is.

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

Didn't I read that the Club were advised against appointing them ?

Not sure whether they are corrupt or incompetent , if Morris had a hand in the appointment, I know where my money is.

Probably both.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

I think we are agreeing!

Yes, my view is there are two dodgy things happening. The one I point out, and the one you point out. Poznan should be absolutely fuming with everyone involved.

At the point the transfer was being concluded, Derby / Quantuma had already missed the payment.  Transfer should not have been allowed to progress.  I believe funds go through FIFA escrow accounts for international transfers.  If Charlotte paid Derby direct, that is wrong.  Erik Alonso, one time potential buyer at Derby, is allegedly at Charlotte, although Charlotte deny it.

[Sleepy1968]

22 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Didn't I read that the Club were advised against appointing them ?

Not sure whether they are corrupt or incompetent , if Morris had a hand in the appointment, I know where my money is.

As owner MM put the club into administration, and got to choose the insolvency practitioner. See here for further info. I think you'd probably be safer calling them incompetent than corrupt. If they sue for libel, you might find that's one thing that they're good at. They'd probably have long list of people to go after - perhaps that's part of their ultimate business plan. Genius.

[chinapig]

50 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Didn't I read that the Club were advised against appointing them ?

Not sure whether they are corrupt or incompetent , if Morris had a hand in the appointment, I know where my money is.

Maguire suggested that they ended up with Quantuma because no reputable insolvency practitioner would take it on.

Their particular concern was that Morris had not put the company owning the stadium into administration.

[Davefevs]

Out of interest, when Quantuma were appointed, they were announced as “joint administrator”….is that because they are working jointly with Derby.  If so, then is Morris still in effect, involved?

[Marvin]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest, when Quantuma were appointed, they were announced as “joint administrator”….is that because they are working jointly with Derby.  If so, then is Morris still in effect, involved?

The wording on the press release is ambiguous: https://www.quantuma.com/insights/quantuma-appointed-joint-administrators-derby-county-football-club

"Andrew Hosking, Quantuma managing director and joint administrator, said: “I can confirm that Andrew Andronikou, Carl Jackson and I were appointed joint administrators of Derby County FC today."

All three work for Quantuma.

[ExiledAjax]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest, when Quantuma were appointed, they were announced as “joint administrator”….is that because they are working jointly with Derby.  If so, then is Morris still in effect, involved?

No Dave. An administrator is an individual person. Those people work for Q, and so people refer to them as "Quantuma". But legally the administrators are Hosking, Andronikou, and Jackson. It is they who are 'joint'. They act as individuals, and have personal liability. You appoint multiple so that there is always someone who can sign stuff and deal for the Company.

2 minutes ago, Marvin said:

The wording on the press release is ambiguous: https://www.quantuma.com/insights/quantuma-appointed-joint-administrators-derby-county-football-club

"Andrew Hosking, Quantuma managing director and joint administrator, said: “I can confirm that Andrew Andronikou, Carl Jackson and I were appointed joint administrators of Derby County FC today."

All three work for Quantuma.

It is not ambiguous on the companies house filing form 30 Sep 2021.

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by ExiledAjax

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

No Dave. An administrator is an individual person. Those people work for Q, and so people refer to them as "Quantuma". But legally the administrators are Hosking, Andronikou, and Jackson. It is they who are 'joint'.

It is not ambiguous on the companies house filing form 30 Sep 2021.

 

Ah, yes….it’s all coming back to me now.  Ta.

[Marvin]

5 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

No Dave. An administrator is an individual person. Those people work for Q, and so people refer to them as "Quantuma". But legally the administrators are Hosking, Andronikou, and Jackson. It is they who are 'joint'. They act as individuals, and have personal liability. You appoint multiple so that there is always someone who can sign stuff and deal for the Company.

It is not ambiguous on the companies house filing form 30 Sep 2021.

 

Thanks EA, I had read it as 'Quantuma' had been appointed as joint administrators i.e. Quantuma as an entity and A N Other. All makes sense now.

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, Marvin said:

Thanks EA, I had read it as 'Quantuma' had been appointed as joint administrators i.e. Quantuma as an entity and A N Other. All makes sense now.

Lazy writing doesn't help either. We all do it as it's quicker to write "Quantuma" etc, but technically those individuals are acting in their own capacity. Same with most professions. People act individually, but form partnerships or practices with others in order to share overheads, costs, and insurance etc. Insolvency professionals are just like that.

[CyderInACan]

6 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Rumour going around yesterday that they could be liquidated at the end of the season but allowed to start the new one in L2.

Definitely sailing closer to the brink than any big club (with no disrespect intended to Bury) since Boro back in ‘86.

This would be an utter disgrace. I don’t care how “big” Derby are, they should feel the full force of the EFL (and HMRC etc) start again in the Dog and Duck league and be grateful. League Two is no punishment at all. 
 

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by CyderInACan

[Bristol Rob]

9 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

This would be an utter disgrace. I don’t care how “big” Derby are, they should feel the full force of the EFL (and HMRC etc) start again in the Dog and Duck league and be grateful. League Two is no punishment at all. 
 

 

The Dog and Duck have never been promoted or relegated.

They have somehow been less successful than Rochdale.

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

The Dog and Duck have never been promoted or relegated.

They have somehow been less successful than Rochdale.

That's because they've never been Wayne Rooney's Dog and Duck.

[exAtyeoMax]

15 minutes ago, downendcity said:

That's because they've never been Wayne Rooney's Dog and Duck.

is that Cockney rhyming slang?

[downendcity]

1 minute ago, exAtyeoMax said:

is that Cockney rhyming slang?

WRDC do appear to be Dog and Duck'd don't they? ,

[Yellow&Blue&Red]

15 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

This would be an utter disgrace. I don’t care how “big” Derby are, they should feel the full force of the EFL (and HMRC etc) start again in the Dog and Duck league and be grateful. League Two is no punishment at all. 
 

 

That feels harsh to me. And it's punishing the wrong people. Morris and the administrators are the culprits here but this wouldn't hurt them much. This would just hit employees and fans. And would mean NONE of the debts being repaid.

I don't think they should get gifted a place in L2 if they go bust, that's not fair either. But I'm not HOPING they go bust.

I hope that they get relegated, they find a buyer at a price that makes sense for L1, that as much of their debt as possible is repaid and they start next season with a hefty points deduction. That feels proportionate to the crime of fiddling FFP. 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Yellow&Blue&Red said:

That feels harsh to me. And it's punishing the wrong people. Morris and the administrators are the culprits here but this wouldn't hurt them much. This would just hit employees and fans. And would mean NONE of the debts being repaid.

I don't think they should get gifted a place in L2 if they go bust, that's not fair either. But I'm not HOPING they go bust.

I hope that they get relegated, they find a buyer at a price that makes sense for L1, that as much of their debt as possible is repaid and they start next season with a hefty points deduction. That feels proportionate to the crime of fiddling FFP. 

Derby fans on twitter starting to see Quantuma as the devil now they can’t blame Gibson, the EFL, Mr Pops (), etc.

[East Londoner]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Derby fans on twitter starting to see Quantuma as the devil now they can’t blame Gibson, the EFL, Mr Pops (), etc.

Forests forum has an amusing list of people Derby fans are blaming, currently at 145 so too long to screenshot and no Mr Pops in sight 

https://www.forestforum.co.uk/threads/44511-The-demise-of-Wayne-Rooney-s-D***y-County-(in-Administration)-(and-denial)/page944

[exAtyeoMax]

13 minutes ago, East Londoner said:

Forests forum has an amusing list of people Derby fans are blaming, currently at 145 so too long to screenshot and no Mr Pops in sight 

https://www.forestforum.co.uk/threads/44511-The-demise-of-Wayne-Rooney-s-D***y-County-(in-Administration)-(and-denial)/page944

No Lee Johnson? 

 

46. Ugg (the caveman that created football, leading to the creation of the EFL)  

61. Holland & Barrett.  

Edited March 18, 2022 by exAtyeoMax

[Marvin]

15 minutes ago, East Londoner said:

Forests forum has an amusing list of people Derby fans are blaming, currently at 145 so too long to screenshot and no Mr Pops in sight 

https://www.forestforum.co.uk/threads/44511-The-demise-of-Wayne-Rooney-s-D***y-County-(in-Administration)-(and-denial)/page944

The new and improved official Derby County blame list:
1. The EFL
2. Steve Gibson
3. Neil Bausor
4. Middlesbrough
5. Rob Couhig
6. Wycombe
7. Covid
8. The ticket office
9. The HMRC
10. Nicholas Randall
11. Trevor Birch
12. Darren Bent
13. Steve McClaren
14. Danny Higginbotham
15. Richard Keogh
16. The European Super League
17. Sky Sports
18. The Football League paper
19. Burton Albion
20. Derby City Council
21. Mind (the mental health charity)
22. Opposition fans
23. The taxpayer
24. Derby's creditors
25. Forest fans that sit in the Upper Bridgford
26. Rick Parry
27. Brice Samba
28. Jack Colback
29. Simon Jordan
30. ITV Digital
31. Setanta
32. Brian Clough
33. Juventus
34. Tim Robinson
35. Lewis Grabban
36. Brennan Johnson
37. Kenny Burns
38. Nigel Clough
39. Billy Davies
40. LTLF
41. Rockabilly and his curse
42. Derby fans (whilst also being blameless at the same time)
43. Stan Collymore
44. Leeds United
45. Ed Dawes
46. Ugg (the caveman that created football, leading to the creation of the EFL)
47. Scott McKenna (for heading aeroplanes away that may contain investors, thus preventing Derby's takeover)
48. OK SpidermAndy! (for upsetting Derby fans by querying how long it will be before Derby fans nick Liverpool's "You'll Never Walk Alone" chant)
49. John Percy
50. Rob Dorsett
51. FFSForest (a Twitter user who pointed out how the absence of Derby's "unreal" supporters this season has cost them around £5m, which would help them complete the season. Clearly an EFL stooge!)
52. 166,000 empty seats (probably the fault of the seat manufacturer, rather than their "unreal" fans though)
53. Forest selling players to Olympiacos
54. Liverpool fans, Sheffield police and the Hillsboro/Govt report (making stadiums all seater prevented them from selling 60k every game)
55. Lyle Taylor
56. Adrian Durham
57. Luke Plange and Crystal Palace
58. Matt Donohue
59. Duane Holmes
60. Beardo7 and his £10 bet
61. Holland & Barrett
62. Bobby Zamora
63. Goalposts
64. Kim Leck
65. Aston Villa
66. Myself
67. The Mysterons
68. Captain Black
69. Shaggy
70. The Queen
71. RealRed85
72. Billingham Synthonia FC
73. Text messages
74. Congo_red (for daring to use facts)
75. Chevin Homes (the "preferred" partner in property)
76. Gianluca Di Marzio
77. Pozzo family (Udinese/Watford)
78. Brexit
79. Derby's Category 1 academy
80. Adam Hart-Davis
81. Birmingham City fans
82. Derby forum users Gritstone Tup and Mucker1884 (for breaking away from the hive mind and going against the narrative)
83. Chris Kirchner
84. Chris Doidge (blasphemous BBC Radio Derby presenter)
85. Daniel Taylor
86. Hasbro
87. From Software
88. Atari
89. 32 Red
90. Sheffield Wednesday fans
91. Bouncer the dog
92. Sam Longson
93. Alcohol
94. Leicester City
95. MaxiRobriguez
96. The MLS
97. The Joiners Arms in Quarndon
98. Highways England
99. Middlesbrough fans bringing facts onto Derby's forum
100. Ze list
101. Darren Huckerby
102. Del Boy and Rodney
103. Harry Enfield
104. Jeremy Simpson
105. Mason Bennett
106. Tom Lawrence
107. Ball boys
108. Scott Malone
109. Tubby pitch invaders
110. Kenny Loggins
111. Nathan Thompson
112. Vladimir Putin
113. MPs
114. "Fake" deadlines
115. The Derby Telegraph
116. The Twitter user @derbyram76 (aka Leitrim Ram) (for creating his own version of ze list)
117. Boris Johnson
118. Daleks
119. Derbyshire Mortgage Services (blasphemous mortgage firm)
120. Pancake day
121. Doctor Who and their companions
122. I'm Red Till Dead
123. BBC Radio Derby
124. Colin Fray
125. Uche Ikpeazu
126. Sky Bet
127. Mitchell and Webb
128. Cardiff City fans
129. Bungle from Rainbow (his coke addiction is causing confusion in the Quantuma offices, thus preventing Derby's takeover)
130. Notcher
131. Whoever at Nottingham Forest is asking the EFL to lobby FIFA to let players at Russian clubs walk away from their contracts
132. Chelsea
133. DC Comics
134. Preston North End
135. Billy Joel
136. Igor Novikov
137. Ben Smyth (treacherous "Derby fan" on Twitter slandering Derby's "amazing" supporters)
138. Joel Moore (another Derby traitor on Twitter who is going against the "Fight 'till the end" narrative)
139. Lech Poznan (for having the audacity to ask for money owed to them)
140. Kieran Maguire
141. Truth
142. HBB
143. Evangelos Marinakis
144. David (moderator on the DCFC Fans forum)
145. "Interested parties"

[REDOXO]

5 hours ago, East Londoner said:

Forests forum has an amusing list of people Derby fans are blaming, currently at 145 so too long to screenshot and no Mr Pops in sight 

https://www.forestforum.co.uk/threads/44511-The-demise-of-Wayne-Rooney-s-D***y-County-(in-Administration)-(and-denial)/page944

Looking at that, makes me thankful for what the admins and developers do here. The site is almost unreadable. 

[exAtyeoMax]

5 hours ago, Marvin said:

91. Bouncer the dog

and his mate, Wellard…