Derby County

[REDOXO]

Just now, Davefevs said:

There was a new one on Monday.

Really. Has it been taken down?

[Davefevs]

https://twitter.com/kieranmaguire/status/1503234406709932033?s=21

[REDOXO]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

https://twitter.com/kieranmaguire/status/1503234406709932033?s=21

Yeah that was the one recorded on Sunday night. The next one will be the one worth waiting for. Legal advice not withstanding. 

[exAtyeoMax]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

https://twitter.com/kieranmaguire/status/1503234406709932033?s=21

shame they can't do a live in BS3

[Mr Popodopolous]

Another party who should go after Derby if accurate- saw it elsewhere.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Seen elsewhere, veracity who knows.

Quote

Article in the Athletic saying that they owe £2.5m to Lech Poznan for Jozwiak. They had asked Lech Poznan if they could defer the next transfer instalment (which was due in February), to which they said no; they have not heard from Derby/Quantuma since (despite numerous attempts to chase them for the money they are owed) and only found out about Jozwiak signing for Charlotte FC when the player himself told them.

I mean yeah it was due- my question is can't the EFL as was being mentioned in January, freeze central awards for distribution if required to football creditors- would Poznan not be a football creditor?

That's fairly shocking though, hearing it off the player after radio silence!

Edited March 16, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

https://theathletic.com/news/derby-owe-lech-poznan-25m-for-jozwiak-despite-players-move-to-mls-side-charlotte-fc/2AIJyv1w9nHy/

Sounds like it'd have to be resolved with FIFA, that's a typo in the URL- £2.5m not £25m.

[ExiledAjax]

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

https://theathletic.com/news/derby-owe-lech-poznan-25m-for-jozwiak-despite-players-move-to-mls-side-charlotte-fc/2AIJyv1w9nHy/

Sounds like it'd have to be resolved with FIFA, that's a typo in the URL- £2.5m not £25m.

As Maguire said, there's some scandalous behaviour going on.

[chinapig]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

https://theathletic.com/news/derby-owe-lech-poznan-25m-for-jozwiak-despite-players-move-to-mls-side-charlotte-fc/2AIJyv1w9nHy/

Sounds like it'd have to be resolved with FIFA, that's a typo in the URL- £2.5m not £25m.

So the conspiracy against sporting integrity's Derby County has now gone international?

[1960maaan]

31 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

https://theathletic.com/news/derby-owe-lech-poznan-25m-for-jozwiak-despite-players-move-to-mls-side-charlotte-fc/2AIJyv1w9nHy/

Sounds like it'd have to be resolved with FIFA, that's a typo in the URL- £2.5m not £25m.

Now I hope you can explain something hereMr P.

If I sell something I don't own, it's fraud. There would be consequences , potential charges etc. 
The Admin have sanctioned the sell, knowing that they don't own the player. Would they be culpable ? Could it be yet another charge against the club ? It seems like the Administrators are as bad as Derby.

[Davefevs]

FIFA should’ve blocked the transfer…they should not allow international clearance until Derby pay Lech.

This is shocking.

Do we think this is what KM was referring to?

[ExiledAjax]

25 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Now I hope you can explain something hereMr P.

If I sell something I don't own, it's fraud. There would be consequences , potential charges etc. 
The Admin have sanctioned the sell, knowing that they don't own the player. Would they be culpable ? Could it be yet another charge against the club ? It seems like the Administrators are as bad as Derby.

They own the player's contract, they just haven't paid for it yet. Similar to how one 'owns' a mortgaged house, but pays the bank instalments to pay for it. You can sell that house, but you've still got to satisfy that debt to the bank. 

[1960maaan]

41 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

They own the player's contract, they just haven't paid for it yet. Similar to how one 'owns' a mortgaged house, but pays the bank instalments to pay for it. You can sell that house, but you've still got to satisfy that debt to the bank. 

Just feels like someone is playing a fast one. Admins get money in from the sale, but instead of paying off the money owed on the player being sold, it will (could) just go on running costs ( read Admin charges) and just let Lech Poznan fight over the money when the dust settles.

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

Just feels like someone is playing a fast one. Admins get money in from the sale, but instead of paying off the money owed on the player being sold, it will (could) just go on running costs ( read Admin charges) and just let Lech Poznan fight over the money when the dust settles.

Yes, absolutely someone is pulling a fast one. But that doesn't mean Derby/Quantuma didn't have the legal right to sell the contract. It means that a) they should pay Lech Poznan, or b) as @Davefevs says, FIFA should have blocked the sale. Lech Poznan have been done over by the protection Derby have from being in administration. 

It is proper naughty, but possibly not 'illegal'.

[PHILINFRANCE]

Assuming the claim is true, and were Lech Poznań to raise a complaint with UEFA/FIFA, would the latter be entitled to penalise Derby after the event, i.e. ban them from playing?

[East Londoner]

Unless I’m missing something here Derby owe more for the player than they’ve got in a transfer fee. They must be desperate 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, East Londoner said:

Unless I’m missing something here Derby owe more for the player than they’ve got in a transfer fee. They must be desperate 

Cash to see them through the season….won’t be good for FFP, will be a “transfer loss” in the accounts.

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yes, absolutely someone is pulling a fast one. But that doesn't mean Derby/Quantuma didn't have the legal right to sell the contract. It means that a) they should pay Lech Poznan, or b) as @Davefevs says, FIFA should have blocked the sale. Lech Poznan have been done over by the protection Derby have from being in administration. 

It is proper naughty, but possibly not 'illegal'.

They are selling the players registration not the contract. I’m not sure how this would be viewed under DCFC circumstances, but players are sold almost everyday that the club still owe money on. 
 

 

[Merrick's Marvels]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

FIFA should’ve blocked the transfer…they should not allow international clearance until Derby pay Lech.

This is shocking.

Mick Harford. 

We sold him to Brum in March 82 for £100K but never saw a penny of it.

Brum sent the money straight to Newcastle - to settle what we owed Newcastle after buying Harford for £160K just 6 months before going bust. 

[GrahamC]

4 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Mick Harford. 

We sold him to Brum in March 82 for £100K but never saw a penny of it.

Brum sent the money straight to Newcastle - to settle what we owed Newcastle after buying Harford for £160K just 6 months before going bust. 

Jan Moller too, was sold to Toronto Blizzard in exactly the same circumstances.

People forget now but we were treated harshly by the league, also made to return several loan players (including Aiden McCaffrey from the blue few) because other sides complained.

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Mick Harford. 

We sold him to Brum in March 82 for £100K but never saw a penny of it.

Brum sent the money straight to Newcastle - to settle what we owed Newcastle after buying Harford for £160K just 6 months before going bust. 

Yep, I recall that.  And the same should apply here for any repayments due but not paid.

If Jozwiak was £4m, say £1m initially and £1.5m for the next two years…then if Derby sell him and fail to make  their agreed payment, then the transfer should not be allowed.  FIFA control international transfers and payments from Charlotte to Derby should’ve gone through their escrow account.  As the transfer was made after the staged payment was due, the money should’ve gone straight to Lech.

[Davefevs]

From Matt Slater / Athletic:

Derby County still owe Lech Poznan about £2.5 million for Kamil Jozwiak despite selling the Polish winger to Major League Soccer side Charlotte FC last week, The Athletic understands.

The Championship side bought Jozwiak for a fee in the region of €4 million (£3.4 million) in September 2020 but had only paid 25 per cent of that amount when they went into administration last September.

Derby’s administrators Quantuma contacted Lech Poznan in January to ask them if they would agree to defer the next instalment of Jozwiak’s fee, which was due on February 15. 

The Polish side rejected the request but received no further communication from Derby or their administrators.

In fact, that is the only time Lech Poznan have heard from Quantuma despite numerous attempts to ask the administrators about the money still owed for Jozwiak and the Ekstraklasa side only learned of the player’s move to the US when Jozwiak told them.

“They’ve sold a player but they haven’t paid for him,” Lech Poznan president Piotr Rutkowski tells The Athletic.

“How is that fair? How is that ethical?

“And what’s really frustrating is we have no protection from the authorities — FIFA’s enforcement proceedings are frozen while Derby are in an insolvency process and the English Football League is not supporting us. If we were an English club, it would be different.”

Rutkowski’s point about the EFL is correct, as the league’s football creditor rule allows it to withhold central payments from a club in administration and redirect them to any club or player owed money. The Premier League has an identical rule and the rationale is it preserves the competitive integrity of the game and protects other clubs from being dragged into financial problems.

These rules, however, only go so far. Overseas clubs owed money by English clubs must pursue their claims via FIFA’s Football Tribunal. Lech Poznan have started that process but the action is frozen while Derby are in administration. It is understood that the club will continue to pursue the full amount they are owed.

“While the situation at Derby County remains challenging with several issues still to be to resolved, the complaint of Lech Poznan related to the sale of Kamil Jozwiak remains a matter for FIFA with whom the rules for all clubs trading internationally are set,” an EFL spokesperson explains.

“The EFL's 'Football Creditor' rules focus on the protection of the domestic football pyramid by seeking to ensure that the financial default of one club does not unfairly penalise other clubs in our domestic competitions.

“Ultimately all professional clubs are bound by FIFA regulations and it will be for the game’s international governing body to advise on the required action for those involved.”

FIFA has not responded to a request for comment and Quantuma declined to comment on the matter.

[exAtyeoMax]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

From Matt Slater / Athletic:

Derby County still owe Lech Poznan about £2.5 million for Kamil Jozwiak despite selling the Polish winger to Major League Soccer side Charlotte FC last week, The Athletic understands.

The Championship side bought Jozwiak for a fee in the region of €4 million (£3.4 million) in September 2020 but had only paid 25 per cent of that amount when they went into administration last September.

Derby’s administrators Quantuma contacted Lech Poznan in January to ask them if they would agree to defer the next instalment of Jozwiak’s fee, which was due on February 15. 

The Polish side rejected the request but received no further communication from Derby or their administrators.

In fact, that is the only time Lech Poznan have heard from Quantuma despite numerous attempts to ask the administrators about the money still owed for Jozwiak and the Ekstraklasa side only learned of the player’s move to the US when Jozwiak told them.

“They’ve sold a player but they haven’t paid for him,” Lech Poznan president Piotr Rutkowski tells The Athletic.

“How is that fair? How is that ethical?

“And what’s really frustrating is we have no protection from the authorities — FIFA’s enforcement proceedings are frozen while Derby are in an insolvency process and the English Football League is not supporting us. If we were an English club, it would be different.”

Rutkowski’s point about the EFL is correct, as the league’s football creditor rule allows it to withhold central payments from a club in administration and redirect them to any club or player owed money. The Premier League has an identical rule and the rationale is it preserves the competitive integrity of the game and protects other clubs from being dragged into financial problems.

These rules, however, only go so far. Overseas clubs owed money by English clubs must pursue their claims via FIFA’s Football Tribunal. Lech Poznan have started that process but the action is frozen while Derby are in administration. It is understood that the club will continue to pursue the full amount they are owed.

“While the situation at Derby County remains challenging with several issues still to be to resolved, the complaint of Lech Poznan related to the sale of Kamil Jozwiak remains a matter for FIFA with whom the rules for all clubs trading internationally are set,” an EFL spokesperson explains.

“The EFL's 'Football Creditor' rules focus on the protection of the domestic football pyramid by seeking to ensure that the financial default of one club does not unfairly penalise other clubs in our domestic competitions.

“Ultimately all professional clubs are bound by FIFA regulations and it will be for the game’s international governing body to advise on the required action for those involved.”

FIFA has not responded to a request for comment and Quantuma declined to comment on the matter.

kin ell

 

DCFC are really in the 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, exAtyeoMax said:

kin ell

 

DCFC are really in the 

Rumour going around yesterday that they could be liquidated at the end of the season but allowed to start the new one in L2.

Definitely sailing closer to the brink than any big club (with no disrespect intended to Bury) since Boro back in ‘86.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Rumour going around yesterday that they could be liquidated at the end of the season but allowed to start the new one in L2.

Definitely sailing closer to the brink than any big club (with no disrespect intended to Bury) since Boro back in ‘86.

I’d be shocked (and disappointed) if they liquidate and were allowed to stay in the EFL.

[exAtyeoMax]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’d be shocked (and disappointed) if they liquidate and were allowed to stay in the EFL.

yes, what would happen to the existing clubs in L2?

[Sleepy1968]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’d be shocked (and disappointed) if they liquidate and were allowed to stay in the EFL.

They surely would need an EGM of member clubs and put something like this to the vote? A phoenix club would probably walk any league below league 1 it was entered into provided it could play at Pride Park because New Derby would sell 20k+ season tickets and be able raise sufficient income streams to attract decent players. Not sure I'd vote for this knowing that my club was destined to finisih a place lower in the league. It would p1ss off all teams at the level and below wouldn't it?

[Sleepy1968]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

From Matt Slater / Athletic:

Derby County still owe Lech Poznan about £2.5 million for Kamil Jozwiak despite selling the Polish winger to Major League Soccer side Charlotte FC last week, The Athletic understands.

The Championship side bought Jozwiak for a fee in the region of €4 million (£3.4 million) in September 2020 but had only paid 25 per cent of that amount when they went into administration last September.

Derby’s administrators Quantuma contacted Lech Poznan in January to ask them if they would agree to defer the next instalment of Jozwiak’s fee, which was due on February 15. 

The Polish side rejected the request but received no further communication from Derby or their administrators.

In fact, that is the only time Lech Poznan have heard from Quantuma despite numerous attempts to ask the administrators about the money still owed for Jozwiak and the Ekstraklasa side only learned of the player’s move to the US when Jozwiak told them.

“They’ve sold a player but they haven’t paid for him,” Lech Poznan president Piotr Rutkowski tells The Athletic.

“How is that fair? How is that ethical?

“And what’s really frustrating is we have no protection from the authorities — FIFA’s enforcement proceedings are frozen while Derby are in an insolvency process and the English Football League is not supporting us. If we were an English club, it would be different.”

Rutkowski’s point about the EFL is correct, as the league’s football creditor rule allows it to withhold central payments from a club in administration and redirect them to any club or player owed money. The Premier League has an identical rule and the rationale is it preserves the competitive integrity of the game and protects other clubs from being dragged into financial problems.

These rules, however, only go so far. Overseas clubs owed money by English clubs must pursue their claims via FIFA’s Football Tribunal. Lech Poznan have started that process but the action is frozen while Derby are in administration. It is understood that the club will continue to pursue the full amount they are owed.

“While the situation at Derby County remains challenging with several issues still to be to resolved, the complaint of Lech Poznan related to the sale of Kamil Jozwiak remains a matter for FIFA with whom the rules for all clubs trading internationally are set,” an EFL spokesperson explains.

“The EFL's 'Football Creditor' rules focus on the protection of the domestic football pyramid by seeking to ensure that the financial default of one club does not unfairly penalise other clubs in our domestic competitions.

“Ultimately all professional clubs are bound by FIFA regulations and it will be for the game’s international governing body to advise on the required action for those involved.”

FIFA has not responded to a request for comment and Quantuma declined to comment on the matter.

This seems wrong, but then so does the EFL football creditors having a priority over Joe Public (e.g. local companies getting shafted) . Maybe transfers should be paid 100% upfront and not staged, or at least underwritten to avoid these kind of issues.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Rumour going around yesterday that they could be liquidated at the end of the season but allowed to start the new one in L2.

Definitely sailing closer to the brink than any big club (with no disrespect intended to Bury) since Boro back in ‘86.

 

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’d be shocked (and disappointed) if they liquidate and were allowed to stay in the EFL.

Nixon said a few days ago that if this scenario was to play out, it would require a vote basically. Can't remember the thresholds.

If it was League Two but a clean slate, that would be shocking. Hopefully some issues would carry over to the new club as part of consent to transfer the Golden Share to the new entity.

This includes, but perhaps not limited to, a Business Plan, a 15 point deduction if appropriate, everything else on the Embargo Reporting Service, a resolution to the Wycombe saga , Football Creditors paid in full.

If the new owner doesn't like it, then you don't transfer the Golden Share.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[ExiledAjax]

I would urge Richard Gould to vote against any proposal that saw a phoenix club be permitted to begin in the Football League.