Derby County

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Oh you absolute tease.

I'd always be cautious of the words of potentially disgruntled ex-employees. Having said that I'd also expect there to be at least a grain of truth in something said.

I don't think Maguire would mention it if he didn't think it had some merit. He did say he would say more at a later date so it is doubtless with m'learned friends. We shall see 

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

I don't think Maguire would mention it if he didn't think it had some merit. He did say he would say more at a later date so it is doubtless with m'learned friends. We shall see 

Everything he's said has happened

[chinapig]

12 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Everything he's said has happened

Yes, but let's not forget he is part of the conspiracy against poor innocent little Derby, alongside the EFL and Steve Gibson. And @Mr Popodopolous.

[REDOXO]

50 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Yes, but let's not forget he is part of the conspiracy against poor innocent little Derby, alongside the EFL and Steve Gibson. And @Mr Popodopolous.

 

2 hours ago, chinapig said:

I don't think Maguire would mention it if he didn't think it had some merit. He did say he would say more at a later date so it is doubtless with m'learned friends. We shall see 

He did actually say it was being looked at by lawyers. However I have never seen Gibson and @Mr Popodopolousin the same room, FACT!

[ExiledAjax]

3 hours ago, chinapig said:

I don't think Maguire would mention it if he didn't think it had some merit. He did say he would say more at a later date so it is doubtless with m'learned friends. We shall see 

Quite.

Listened over lunch. Have to say the point he made on HMRC debt was a good one. Derby owe £27m, the next highest debt to HMRC in the Championship was said to be QPR, who reportedly owe £2.2m (and he gives a couple of other examples in Luton and Millwall owing less than £1m). So yeh, HMRC are quite rightly asking questions as to why 23 other clubs are perfectly capable of paying (most of) their HMRC debts, including using the loans from the Prem to do so, and yet somehow Derby County couldn't. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by ExiledAjax

[CHIPLEY RED]

55 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Quite.

Listened over lunch. Have to say the point he made on HMRC debt was a good one. Derby owe £27m, the next highest debt to HMRC in the Championship was said to be QPR, who reportedly owe £2.2m (and he gives a couple of other examples in Luton and Millwall owing less than £1m). So yeh, HMRC are quite rightly asking questions as to why 23 other clubs are perfectly capable of paying (most of) their HMRC debts, including using the loans from the Prem to do so, and yet somehow Derby County couldn't. 

This is what I hate. Derby owe £27m in tax thats £27m that you and me have to pay.

The administrators should be asked some serious questions about what they are doing for their money. A friend and also Derby fan tells me that any potential buyer had to pay a £5m non refundable deposit just to register an interest and the fans think thats one reason why there are no interested parties. He also thinks the administrator is delaying in case Derby beat the drop and are worth more as a championship club.

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 hour ago, CHIPLEY RED said:

The administrators should be asked some serious questions about what they are doing for their money. A friend and also Derby fan tells me that any potential buyer had to pay a £5m non refundable deposit just to register an interest and the fans think thats one reason why there are no interested parties. 

So, Quantuma not as incompetent as is being claimed.

Just think, twenty potential buyers all paying a non-refundable deposit of £5M, that makes £100M, less Quantuma’s fee, leaves a net £50M.

Problem solved, Well Done Quantuma.

Or perhaps your Derby friend is mistaken .

[CHIPLEY RED]

25 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

So, Quantuma not as incompetent as is being claimed.

Just think, twenty potential buyers all paying a non-refundable deposit of £5M, that makes £100M, less Quantuma’s fee, leaves a net £50M.

Problem solved, Well Done Quantuma.

Or perhaps your Derby friend is mistaken .

But still no buyer.

How many potential buyers do you think would give £5m just to register an interest. This isn't Chelsea where £5m is a drop in the ocean this is Derby who don't even own their own ground.

[ExiledAjax]

5 minutes ago, CHIPLEY RED said:

But still no buyer.

How many potential buyers do you think would give £5m just to register an interest. This isn't Chelsea where £5m is a drop in the ocean this is Derby who don't even own their own ground.

I've been involved in admin sales in the past, and honestly have not heard of or witnessed a requirement to pay a non-refundable deposit up front just to register interest. Could it be that your friend has confused a pledge to fund Derby for this season - which would have likely been for about that amount - with a 'deposit'? There are reports of 3 formal bids. If so that is £15m into the kitty - and yet Derby still had trouble proving funds for the season, and eventually had to sell Jozwiak just a week ago to cover costs. It just doesn't quite make sense for them to do all that if they have £15m in deposits sitting in their account.

[downendcity]

13 minutes ago, CHIPLEY RED said:

But still no buyer.

How many potential buyers do you think would give £5m just to register an interest. This isn't Chelsea where £5m is a drop in the ocean this is Derby who don't even own their own ground.

Shame an owner cannot owe 2 clubs, otherwise they could offer prospective buyers a BOGOF - buy Chelsea and get Derby thrown in.

[PHILINFRANCE]

40 minutes ago, CHIPLEY RED said:

But still no buyer.

How many potential buyers do you think would give £5m just to register an interest. This isn't Chelsea where £5m is a drop in the ocean this is Derby who don't even own their own ground.

I am sorry.

I was being facetious.

[CHIPLEY RED]

9 hours ago, downendcity said:

Shame an owner cannot owe 2 clubs, otherwise they could offer prospective buyers a BOGOF - buy Chelsea and get Derby thrown in.

That would interest Mike Ashley - be like being in Sports Direct

Edited March 15, 2022 by CHIPLEY RED
spelling

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 hours ago, CHIPLEY RED said:

This is what I hate. Derby owe £27m in tax thats £27m that you and me have to pay.

The administrators should be asked some serious questions about what they are doing for their money. A friend and also Derby fan tells me that any potential buyer had to pay a £5m non refundable deposit just to register an interest and the fans think thats one reason why there are no interested parties. He also thinks the administrator is delaying in case Derby beat the drop and are worth more as a championship club.

 

16 hours ago, CHIPLEY RED said:

But still no buyer.

How many potential buyers do you think would give £5m just to register an interest. This isn't Chelsea where £5m is a drop in the ocean this is Derby who don't even own their own ground.

 

16 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

I've been involved in admin sales in the past, and honestly have not heard of or witnessed a requirement to pay a non-refundable deposit up front just to register interest. Could it be that your friend has confused a pledge to fund Derby for this season - which would have likely been for about that amount - with a 'deposit'? There are reports of 3 formal bids. If so that is £15m into the kitty - and yet Derby still had trouble proving funds for the season, and eventually had to sell Jozwiak just a week ago to cover costs. It just doesn't quite make sense for them to do all that if they have £15m in deposits sitting in their account.

This was a genuine requirement I believe, unsure it is mistaken- this would presumably have been their solution to the cash flow issues and a way of retaining players or as many as possible, to give the best possible chance of selling as a Championship club.

Whether anyone would go for it is a different matter but fairly sure it was a requirement from memory- I say a requirement, a hope by Quantuma more likely. As a way of proving seriousness and worth as a buyer was also mooted.,

[PHILINFRANCE]

46 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

 

This was a genuine requirement I believe, unsure it is mistaken- this would presumably have been their solution to the cash flow issues and a way of retaining players or as many as possible, to give the best possible chance of selling as a Championship club.

Whether anyone would go for it is a different matter but fairly sure it was a requirement from memory- I say a requirement, a hope by Quantuma more likely. As a way of proving seriousness and worth as a buyer was also mooted.,

So, just to make sure I have understood this correctly.

Consortium A is tentatively interested and is requested to pay £5M up front, an amount which is non-refundable, just to register their interest and receive access to sufficient documentation to undertake due diligence.

Upon examination, they discover it is the can of worms many suspect it is and withdraw their interest.

Quantuma say, no problem, thanks for your time, but you are not getting your £5M back. 

Goodbye.

Either I have completely misunderstood this, which is very possible, or the whole debacle is even more outrageous and farcical that I imagined. 

[REDOXO]

48 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

 

This was a genuine requirement I believe, unsure it is mistaken- this would presumably have been their solution to the cash flow issues and a way of retaining players or as many as possible, to give the best possible chance of selling as a Championship club.

Whether anyone would go for it is a different matter but fairly sure it was a requirement from memory- I say a requirement, a hope by Quantuma more likely. As a way of proving seriousness and worth as a buyer was also mooted.,

If that is correct it’s staggering. As implied up the thread, if Derby were Chelsea or any other of the top 6/10 in the country then maybe. However this club has 15x more HMRC debt than the next club in the division. 
 

If accurate it’s a massive miss calculation by everyone concerned. No wonder bidders have been coy. 

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This was a genuine requirement I believe, unsure it is mistaken- this would presumably have been their solution to the cash flow issues and a way of retaining players or as many as possible, to give the best possible chance of selling as a Championship club.

Whether anyone would go for it is a different matter but fairly sure it was a requirement from memory- I say a requirement, a hope by Quantuma more likely. As a way of proving seriousness and worth as a buyer was also mooted.,

In ten years of working as a lawyer in business sales and purchases, including a few insolvency transactions, I have never seen nor heard of any seller requiring a 'non-refundable deposit' purely for the privilege of 'registering interest'. If Q are demanding what is in effect a 8.3% (assuming they are hoping for circa. £60m in total) deposit, purely for 'registering interest' then it is scandalous as Maguire alludes to.

Proof of funds - sure, all the time.

Structured payment - whereby a small % may be paid up front, with further consideration paid as an 'earn out' - sure, again all the time. This is quite different to here though as this would be only with the buyer, and they'd be locked in at that point.

Deposits made into escrow or solicitor's accounts, made at a point when heads of terms are signed and exclusivity is granted - very occasionally - but only where there is serious doubt over the veracity of the buyer.

Honestly every single one of my clients would be insulted to be asked to stump up 8.3% of the proposed purchase price before they could even start doing DD or negotiating in earnest.

It may well be true, but if so then I will be shocked.

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by ExiledAjax

[PHILINFRANCE]

I was too late to edit my previous post, but notwithstanding what appears, from a distance, to be a thoroughly incompetent and unprofessional handling of Derby’s Administration, my money is still on Chipley’s mate being wrong about this £5M non-refundable deposit.

To my mind, such a request would be inconceivable and, furthermore, extremely unlikely to be taken up by any seriously interested party.

[PHILINFRANCE]

6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

In ten years of working as a lawyer in business sales and purchases, including a few insolvency transactions, I have never seen nor heard of any seller requiring a 'non-refundable deposit' purely for the privilege of 'registering interest'. If Q are demanding what is in effect a 8.3% (assuming they are hoping for circa. £60m in total) deposit, purely for 'registering interest' then it is scandalous as Maguire alludes.

Honestly every single one of my clients would be insulted to be asked to stump up 8.3% of the proposed purchase price before they could even start doing DD or negotiating in earnest.

It may well be true, but if so then I will be shocked.

 

Two points/questions relating to your post.

1. The aspect that surprises me, so much so that I am convinced there is no truth in the claim, is that the deposit is to be non-refundable! An absolutely preposterous and ludicrous suggestion in my opinion.

2. If I am wrong about 1. (above), is this the aspect that Maguire finds scandalous?

 

[ExiledAjax]

15 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Two points/questions relating to your post.

1. The aspect that surprises me, so much so that I am convinced there is no truth in the claim, is that the deposit is to be non-refundable! An absolutely preposterous and ludicrous suggestion in my opinion.

I am struggling to think of any transaction that I have ever been involved with that required any kind of deposit. Proof of funds is always needed by a seller, but even that can be fairly loose if you're confident that the buyer is legitimate. In Derby's case, I don't think any of Ashley, the Binnies, Appleby or even Kirchner would be so suspicious as to require a £5m deposit. Yes some of them are a bit funny, but everyone knows they've got the money. 

It get us to the point we've all made - that if it's not proof of funds that's the issue, then any deposit required is surely an obvious cash grab. 

I am also conscious that this is the kind of story that many Derby fans would simply love to be true. Hearing that Q are demanding £5m for a 'registration of interest', and then presuming that multiple parties have paid that, well that very much validates that Derby are a) attractive, b) a big deal, c) not going insolvent, and d) being looked at by rich and serious people. It would catch on and be validated by assumption and head-nodding.

2. If I am wrong about 1. (above), is this the aspect that Maguire finds scandalous?

It could very well be one of those aspects yes.

My thoughts above. I'm very skeptical to say the least. I respect @Mr Popodopolous and our friends from Derby, but if this proves true then it will be a first for me.

@PHILINFRANCE EDIT: Ok thinking about it I do recall one transaction that had a deposit. But that was a company taking investment from a foreign investor. They had reasons to believe that investor might back out, and so requested a deposit. It was something like 1% of the final price. I honestly cannot recall if it was refundable or not, it was certainly to be offset against the final price.

I maintain that £5m would be truly exceptional, especially if truly 'non-refundable'.

Edited March 15, 2022 by ExiledAjax

[PHILINFRANCE]

52 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

My thoughts above. I'm very skeptical to say the least. I respect @Mr Popodopolous and our friends from Derby, but if this proves true then it will be a first for me.

@PHILINFRANCE EDIT: Ok thinking about it I do recall one transaction that had a deposit. But that was a company taking investment from a foreign investor. They had reasons to believe that investor might back out, and so requested a deposit. It was something like 1% of the final price. I honestly cannot recall if it was refundable or not, it was certainly to be offset against the final price.

I maintain that £5m would be truly exceptional, especially if truly 'non-refundable'.

It is the non-refundable aspect where, for me, the suggestion lacks credibility. 

I can understand, without in any way condoning it, that Quantuma would like to get some extra cash in urgently, so the suggestion that prospective bidders might have to pay a deposit is feasible.

I am not convinced, however. that this would solve Derby's cash flow problem, as I should have thought any deposits would be placed in an Escrow account - similar to a CARPA account over here - and, as the whole point of an Escrow account is to protect the funds, they would not even be available until the transacton was complete.

I would just love it, a la Kevin Keegan, if this is the scandalous behaviour to which Kevin Maguire refers; Quantuma requesting that non-refundable deposits be placed in Derby's/Quantuma's own account, the account of a football club that might be liquidated within months.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by PHILINFRANCE

[Midred]

Perhaps the administrators are trying to work out how there will be any money left to pay them!

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

My thoughts above. I'm very skeptical to say the least. I respect @Mr Popodopolous and our friends from Derby, but if this proves true then it will be a first for me.

@PHILINFRANCE EDIT: Ok thinking about it I do recall one transaction that had a deposit. But that was a company taking investment from a foreign investor. They had reasons to believe that investor might back out, and so requested a deposit. It was something like 1% of the final price. I honestly cannot recall if it was refundable or not, it was certainly to be offset against the final price.

I maintain that £5m would be truly exceptional, especially if truly 'non-refundable'.

I'll attempt to clarify my point. It was an expectation a forlorn hope by Quantuma but only of the Preferred bidder. Will respond in more depth later or tomorrow.

As I understand it though, they were hoping/expecting it might happen or claiming it anyway- whether they believed in it a very different matter.

It is and I bow to your experience here, unorthodox without any doubt but Quantuma are unorthodox, desperate situation too- remember Andronikou at Portsmouth tried many things, not necessarily in the handbook. He's a common denominator here a decade on.

[CHIPLEY RED]

5 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

So, just to make sure I have understood this correctly.

Consortium A is tentatively interested and is requested to pay £5M up front, an amount which is non-refundable, just to register their interest and receive access to sufficient documentation to undertake due diligence.

Upon examination, they discover it is the can of worms many suspect it is and withdraw their interest.

Quantuma say, no problem, thanks for your time, but you are not getting your £5M back. 

Goodbye.

Either I have completely misunderstood this, which is very possible, or the whole debacle is even more outrageous and farcical that I imagined. 

What you haver described is how my Derby friend and his fellow supporters see it. Strange because even is you are interested only 1 buyer can buy the club.

[slartibartfast]

Pity Weading scabbed a point tonight..........could have been a perfect relegation double !

[Hxj]

It is clear that the Administrators vastly oversold their ability to sell the club/assets and have even more appallingly under delivered.

There is a reason that none of the well known accountants and insolvency firms were interested in taking on the high profile media aware appointment - reputational risk.  That is coming to Quantuma.

The odd rumour I hear is that the whole DCFC organisation is in meltdown.  

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Hxj said:

The odd rumour I hear is that the whole DCFC organisation is in meltdown.  

That might concur with Kieran Maguire’s pod yesterday.

[exAtyeoMax]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

That might concur with Kieran Maguire’s pod yesterday.

do you have a link, Dave?

Thanks

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

do you have a link, Dave?

Thanks

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjxj5zdvcr2AhVJi1wKHdDXAHgQFnoECCQQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fpodcasts.apple.com%2Fgb%2Fpodcast%2Fthe-price-of-football%2Fid1482886394&usg=AOvVaw1USb9WScQXkDImwsVGm6wH

 

edit: just google “price of football podcast” or going into your podcast app and search.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Davefevs

[REDOXO]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjxj5zdvcr2AhVJi1wKHdDXAHgQFnoECCQQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fpodcasts.apple.com%2Fgb%2Fpodcast%2Fthe-price-of-football%2Fid1482886394&usg=AOvVaw1USb9WScQXkDImwsVGm6wH

 

edit: just google “price of football podcast” or going into your podcast app and search.

Is there another? I can only get Sundays when he said about having info inside derby being checked by lawyers. 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Is there another? I can only get Sundays when he said about having info inside derby being checked by lawyers. 

There was a new one on Monday.