Did Palmer take a pay cut to join us?

[Bris Red]

1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

Think you have answered it. Not in this country.

Is there still strong money to be made in China?

I think there is but only if you are a big name that will sell shirts and bring in the crowds..

Kasey Palmer certainly wouldn’t fit that bill and then there is the question of would he want to move his young family over there for any length of time. It seems that most European players only stick it out over there for a year or 2 max.

[tin]

15 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I think it is by far our worst ever signing as he was also poor for us on loan. Wolves FA cup game made my mind up. Strolled around and regularly let his man run off him. Thought it was bizarre that we wanted him off the back of his poor loan spell.   A lot of fans liked him on loan but I will never understand why 

Agree on the Wolves Cup game. I thought he had something about him while on loan and that he would improve, but I was oblivious as to the figures involved with the deal at that time.

@Davefevs is the man who knows his amortisation, but £3.5m transfer plus wages since 1 August 2019 must've cost us around £5m to date with no prospect of any ROI either on the pitch or in a depressed transfer market. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

More systemic of the Chelsea academy system than Palmer himself tbh. Imagine Kalas and JD were all on very similar salaries. 
 

Chalobah was given £80k a week after his successful loan to Watford all those years back. Widely known there’s players in their 23s squad on £40k a week that wouldn’t even get noticed in their club shop on a match day. 

Was watching one of those Lineker, Shearer, Micah Richards goals programmes the other night and he said he went from £5k to £50k p.w. at 18.  I really like him, he is really funny in an infectious way and takes the piss out of Shearer which I like.  The Sky stuff with Roy Keane is good too.  I watch and smile inwardly, Keane can’t get his head around him.

As you say Pete, it is the Chelsea model.  Huddersfield did the best out of him, Palmer helping them get promoted, but he failed at Blackburn and Derby.  Blackburn was difficult because he played out of position due to Dack.

@And Its Smithand if you make your mind up on one performance, that being versus Wolves, a PL team going really well, then I think you’re choosing the wrong game (Dendoncker, Moutinho, Saiss vs Brownhill, Morrell and Palmer).  That was just his second start after 4 short sub appearances.  In that loan spell, there were enough signs that there was a footballer in there, but he wasn’t fit, certainly not match fit, nor did LJ get him match fit either.  The professionals thought he was worth £3.5m and £20k+ p.w

The crazy thing for me was that we signed him when we did, stinks of there being no plan to Recruitment other than “pile ‘em high” and little thought to team plan.  That was proved by the subsequent loan of Pato, and then sale of Pack, signing of Nagy (and Massengo).  Like kids in a sweet shop, and although Ashton is a [insert swear word] that summer really lowered my opinion of Johnson.

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, tin said:

Agree on the Wolves Cup game. I thought he had something about him while on loan and that he would improve, but I was oblivious as to the figures involved with the deal at that time.

@Davefevs is the man who knows his amortisation, but £3.5m transfer plus wages since 1 August 2019 must've cost us around £5m to date with no prospect of any ROI either on the pitch or in a depressed transfer market. 

You are in the right ballpark.

Not Kasey’s fault.

His current value in the books will be £1m.  Likely to be a loan imho, because otherwise there will be an impairment cost brought forward into this year’s accounts.  Plus the contribution to wages from another club is very unlikely to be 100%.  Over to you Richard Gould.

[Gol]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You are in the right ballpark.

Not Kasey’s fault.

His current value in the books will be £1m.  Likely to be a loan imho, because otherwise there will be an impairment cost brought forward into this year’s accounts.  Plus the contribution to wages from another club is very unlikely to be 100%.  Over to you Richard Gould.

Would I be correct in assuming he is taking up circa £2m a year in the accounts when combining his amortisation and wages? 

[The Journalist]

1 hour ago, brady bunch said:

I feel he needs a fresh start elsewhere, and whilst I would question his diet, I have never seen him give less then a 100% on the pitch for us.

The wages are a joke, but again that is not the fault of him or the other footballers who get offered them.

You've never seen Palmer give any less than 100% on the pitch?! You've got to be absolutely kidding.

The guy does far too much running for the crowd and not enough running for the team - for example, he'll hurtle towards a full-back clipping a ball down the line, throwing himself into an attempted block but getting nowhere near it, and then spend the next 30 seconds dusting himself off and meandering back into position.

The fans give him a nice cheer because they see it as effort though.

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, Gol said:

Would I be correct in assuming he is taking up circa £2m a year in the accounts when combining his amortisation and wages? 

You would be correct….you and @tinon fire this morning!

[And Its Smith]

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Was watching one of those Lineker, Shearer, Micah Richards goals programmes the other night and he said he went from £5k to £50k p.w. at 18.  I really like him, he is really funny in an infectious way and takes the piss out of Shearer which I like.  The Sky stuff with Roy Keane is good too.  I watch and smile inwardly, Keane can’t get his head around him.

As you say Pete, it is the Chelsea model.  Huddersfield did the best out of him, Palmer helping them get promoted, but he failed at Blackburn and Derby.  Blackburn was difficult because he played out of position due to Dack.

@And Its Smithand if you make your mind up on one performance, that being versus Wolves, a PL team going really well, then I think you’re choosing the wrong game (Dendoncker, Moutinho, Saiss vs Brownhill, Morrell and Palmer).  That was just his second start after 4 short sub appearances.  In that loan spell, there were enough signs that there was a footballer in there, but he wasn’t fit, certainly not match fit, nor did LJ get him match fit either.  The professionals thought he was worth £3.5m and £20k+ p.w

The crazy thing for me was that we signed him when we did, stinks of there being no plan to Recruitment other than “pile ‘em high” and little thought to team plan.  That was proved by the subsequent loan of Pato, and then sale of Pack, signing of Nagy (and Massengo).  Like kids in a sweet shop, and although Ashton is a [insert swear word] that summer really lowered my opinion of Johnson.

I didn’t just watch him once and decide on him. That game confirmed my suspicions that he doesn’t put in the effort required. Saw it in him before he arrived, and during his time here before, during and after that Wolves game. The opponent is irrelevant if the issue is you don’t work hard enough. 

[And Its Smith]

17 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

You've never seen Palmer give any less than 100% on the pitch?! You've got to be absolutely kidding.

The guy does far too much running for the crowd and not enough running for the team - for example, he'll hurtle towards a full-back clipping a ball down the line, throwing himself into an attempted block but getting nowhere near it, and then spend the next 30 seconds dusting himself off and meandering back into position.

The fans give him a nice cheer because they see it as effort though.

Absolutely spot on. And he can get himself up for the odd game, maybe in front of sky sports cameras or a big comeback game where he’s being given another chance. He might do well in that game and then the next game he’s back to average again and the game after that back to poor, lacking any sort of desire to work for the team. 
 

He’s missed the bus and can’t be ****** to run for it 

[tin]

36 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You are in the right ballpark.

Not Kasey’s fault.

His current value in the books will be £1m.  Likely to be a loan imho, because otherwise there will be an impairment cost brought forward into this year’s accounts.  Plus the contribution to wages from another club is very unlikely to be 100%.  Over to you Richard Gould.

Not KP’s fault at all. Just like it wasn’t Holden’s fault he was offered the job. Both were abysmal decisions from the top, albeit one is said with the benefit of hindsight.

[pongo88]

2 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

He needs shipping out

Easier said than done. Clubs that might want him can’t afford him, and clubs that can afford him probably don’t want him. The best option might be a loan with City still paying a large percentage of his salary. 

[AshtonGreat]

4 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

Easier said than done. Clubs that might want him can’t afford him, and clubs that can afford him probably don’t want him. The best option might be a loan with City still paying a large percentage of his salary. 

I don't see the point in that at all. I would just sell him for a hugely discounted fee to a League One club

[GrahamC]

3 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Another reason I’d like to see the back of him is because the Twitter admin seems to have the biggest crush on him. He has a few favourites but seems to particularly be Palmer. 

Even without context that response by Palmer is pretty revealing. Reflects pretty badly.

Robins TV during the lockdown, as well.

If you played the “take a drink every time they mention whether Kasey Palmer could be the solution now we are 1 down” game, you would be absolutely shitfaced by an hour in.

I just wish he would leave, he was a truly terrible signing (was it Ashton or LJ? I don’t care), he adds absolutely nothing, was mediocre whilst on loan here & virtually everywhere else & is nowhere near Paterson’s level of performance.

[Davefevs]

40 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I didn’t just watch him once and decide on him. That game confirmed my suspicions that he doesn’t put in the effort required. Saw it in him before he arrived, and during his time here before, during and after that Wolves game. The opponent is irrelevant if the issue is you don’t work hard enough. 

Ah, I see…it’s just that you said you made your mind up at the Wolves game, at that point he’d started 1 game (Bolton FAC where he was really good) and 4 sub apps totalling 79 mins.

Don’t get me wrong I’ve seen him swan around a bit, but I’ve assessed that as lack of fitness / stamina.  In the main I think he’s always put a shift in, for as long as his body allowed him too…unfortunately rarely long enough to complete a game.

 

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Davefevs

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I don't see the point in that at all. I would just sell him for a hugely discounted fee to a League One club

How do you expect a Lg1 club to pay a reduced fee and pay his £20k p.w wages?  He’s under contract.  If we were to sell him I’d be amazed if we 1) got any fee at all and 2) weren’t paying some if his wages for the remaining 18 months of his contract.

We need there to be a big mug out there in Lg1 who would do that sort out thing.  Ah I see where you are going…Mark Ashton’s Ipswich Town.

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

And possibly not even true 

Well of course but that's a given, hence saying "without context".

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I remember many on here seemed pretty desperate for us to beat Swansea to signing him. Fans even praising Ashton for the 3 Chelsea signings!

I assumed we were signing Nketiah, so I thought well a much fitter Palmer (if LJ could get him fitter and moving more) with someone of that quality up top might work out better.

We ended up signing Afobe instead. It started off well but very little to go on. If Afobe had stayed fit then I'm not so sure that would have carried on.

One game they both played in was the QPR 2-0 win. Palmer had a great first half but was awful 2nd half and was subbed early..his legs had gone. He had the work rate in that game but could not keep it going so was never going to be a Bobby Reid type that LJ said about unless he improved his fitness massively, but also become a runner which he has never been.

I don't understand why Palmer would be fitter from a preseason when he was with us during a season and having played some games for Blackburn before joining us. Not sure he's ever looked any fitter than his loan spell. One of LJs problems was having too much confidence in his coaching ability in improving players. Signing too many players who had not played well elsewhere before signing, but in Kasey's case had not played well for us! As well as Blackburn.

I think many thought including myself that he'd be a number 10 behind a striker. The Wolves game is an interesting one as he was clearly instructed to play closer to the striker that was Diedhiou. Other games he would often come too deep.

He was bullied and didn't work hard off the ball in pressing but worst of all was his movement when we had the ball. He doesn't make forward runs.

I think it was Rotherham loss last season he played in the 10 role behind 1 striker and was easily marked out the game. I completely understood Pearson going with him on the wing. In a 433 it did work well in a couple of games. 2nd half against Swansea he was fantastic wide right. He actually had space to receive a pass and do his tricks on the ball. But then the wide role brings problems in his game too.

Strange really that Pearson could not see Dasilva and Palmer were not his types in the summer having worked with them last season, and surely know what their strengths and weaknesses are. I wonder if we do move them both on next month then could we have done that in the summer.

I'm not expecting a fee. I even expect to have to pay a good chunk of his wages. But Im sure someone will want him somewhere and be willing to pay something. Better than us paying all his wages and never playing.

He has got a lot of ability so I still think he could be good somewhere. Maybe even worth a league one team paying a bit of his wages to help win promotion.

I think league one teams gain millions by winning promotion to the championship in normal circumstances so might be worth a gamble on Kasey on loan and paying a bit of his wages.

Or wouldn't surprise me if there is some interest at championship level.

Agree with most of that Jon (agree with the sentiment of all of it!)….especially the bit about LJ (was a bit like “I can tame Tomlin” all over again).

Re not being Pearson players, unfortunately it’s what he got left with.  Maybe he saw exactly that, but If you can’t move them on, what can you do….especially when every £1 counts (quote Richard Gould).  You have to try and work with what you have (quote Nige).  

Letting Nagy go for free is the kind of decision you don’t want to have to make, but for what it cost in impairment of his fee we at least saved a season’s wages.  I think Palmer will cost us in terms of both impairment and wages.  What a mess.

Digressing further, allegedly Dasilva and his agent are trying to find a new club.  No idea if that is true or not, but would back up the fact that he’s in the 18 currently to make up numbers…and why Benarous started LWB last week.

Lets hope someone picks up as big a slug of Palmer’s wages as possible.  I still think someone in the Champ might think he’s worth half a season, especially if it’s not 100% of wages.

[Roger Red Hat]

Palmer agreed to take a pay cut on the understanding he wouldn't have to put any effort in, although if he did put any effort in it was agreed he could claim overtime at time and a half. Double time if it was a Sunday fixture.

[grifty]

I still don't think we've given him a decent run in his strongest position.

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Ah, I see…it’s just that you said you made your mind up at the Wolves game, at that point he’d started 1 game (Bolton FAC where he was really good) and 4 sub apps totalling 79 mins.

Don’t get me wrong I’ve seen him swan around a bit, but I’ve assessed that as lack of fitness / stamina.  In the main I think he’s always put a shift in, for as long as his body allowed him too…unfortunately rarely long enough to complete a game.

 

 

And the games I saw him play for previous clubs…..

[GrahamC]

4 minutes ago, grifty said:

I still don't think we've given him a decent run in his strongest position.

Yep, that’ll be it.

That’s why he couldn’t get a start on loan at Swansea too, Derby, only started 10 on loan at Blackburn (he was rubbish for them at AG & got taken off) & in his second spell on loan at Huddersfield.

If only we completely adjusted the team for a one good game in 8 player who is seemingly unable to play to a team pattern.

28 starts, 26 sub appearances for us & everyone can list the few good things (pass at Birmingham to Rowe, one for Brownhill v Charlton) he’s done on the fingers of one hand.

Bloke is a complete waste of time & money.

[The Journalist]

4 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

I think it is by far our worst ever signing as he was also poor for us on loan. Wolves FA cup game made my mind up. Strolled around and regularly let his man run off him. Thought it was bizarre that we wanted him off the back of his poor loan spell.   A lot of fans liked him on loan but I will never understand why 

I said this a few weeks ago - "by far" might be harsh as he's got some competition for it, but I think when you add the context that we had a look at him for six months and still decided he was worth the money despite him not showing much it was a remarkable signing.

And fans reference that we'd just signed Szmodics too - Paterson was also here and is a considerably better player than the pair of them IMO.

[Waconda]

3 hours ago, pongo88 said:

Easier said than done. Clubs that might want him can’t afford him, and clubs that can afford him probably don’t want him. The best option might be a loan with City still paying a large percentage of his salary. 

75% minimum of wages paid by us with no loan fee received I would expect

And Palmer would have to agree, at this point it might suit him to see his contract out and wait for a possible change of manager here.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

I said this a few weeks ago - "by far" might be harsh as he's got some competition for it, but I think when you add the context that we had a look at him for six months and still decided he was worth the money despite him not showing much it was a remarkable signing.

And fans reference that we'd just signed Szmodics too - Paterson was also here and is a considerably better player than the pair of them IMO.

Yep, bonkers recruitment. £24m not including agent fees, loan fees, relocation costs, wage budget increase, etc.  Yeah, yeah, we made a lot too, but we went mad.

Totally happy that opinions will differ on Palmer, typical of that type of player really.  Bentley and Nagy might be a smidge higher too.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, VT05763 said:

75% minimum of wages paid by us with no loan fee received I would expect

And Palmer would have to agree, at this point it might suit him to see his contract out and wait for a possible change of manager here.

Such a tough one.  If it was a Championship club interested would you accept £5-6k p.w. Contribution from that club, a club quite possibly we are in direct competition with?  That would save us £150k to strengthen an opponent.  Gonna have to say it again…what a mess.

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Such a tough one.  If it was a Championship club interested would you accept £5-6k p.w. Contribution from that club, a club quite possibly we are in direct competition with?  That would save us £150k to strengthen an opponent.  Gonna have to say it again…what a mess.

Depends how Palmer is behind the scenes really. If he he is getting on with training and being no bother then may as well keep him around to at least provide a player for practices etc.

If the scenario is not a healthy one then try and loan him out for whatever you can get, even nothing ! 

[Waconda]

6 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Wonder if that was gross or net...

Would be gross I would think.

But not including any bonus's.

[RedM]

4 hours ago, bris red said:

I think there is but only if you are a big name that will sell shirts and bring in the crowds..

Kasey Palmer certainly wouldn’t fit that bill and then there is the question of would he want to move his young family over there for any length of time. It seems that most European players only stick it out over there for a year or 2 max.

Maybe Australia? They have had a few ex Prem/ex Championship and not necessarily the big names. He could be the star player at most clubs without too much effort and have a really decent standard of life for his wife and two young kiddies too. 

[RedM]

32 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

I said this a few weeks ago - "by far" might be harsh as he's got some competition for it, but I think when you add the context that we had a look at him for six months and still decided he was worth the money despite him not showing much it was a remarkable signing.

And fans reference that we'd just signed Szmodics too - Paterson was also here and is a considerably better player than the pair of them IMO.

And we have had a couple of managers who couldn’t get enough out of him, as well as his loan at Swansea where he didn’t feature much under their manager either. Can they all be wrong about him?

[marmite]

Give him a run of games to see what he can do when given a long enough run. We have done that with Martin this season so why not with Kasey Palmer?  In and out the team with the occasional 15min sub appearance is not enough to judge. If we have to keep paying him we might as well play him. I think there is a player in there but I agree he hasn't proved himself yet, which is why I say give him some proper game time