Remember When Some Wanted to Scrap the Academy?

[Better Red]

19 minutes ago, Ian M said:

Sure

Scott joined  us at 17 

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, Better Red said:

Scott joined  us at 17 

16, he's young for his age group, he joined as a first year scholar and his birthday wasn't until august, but it goes by school year dates

Edited August 25, 2022 by Lrrr

[Better Red]

19 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Don't feed it lads. Has to be on a wind up now.

Not a wind up.

Just an opinion.

I just put a few facts in to base my opinion on.

But just an opinion.

 

 

[Lrrr]

6 minutes ago, Better Red said:

Simple question - Do you think he is Championship standard or ever will be Yes/No ?

Yes, Max is more than good enough for a championship number 2

[Better Red]

1 minute ago, Lrrr said:

16, he's young for his age group, he joined as a first year scholar and his birthday wasn't until august, but it goes by school year dates

So again joined us very late for the ‘Academy’ product 

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, Better Red said:

So again joined us very late for the ‘Academy’ product 

And yet you said Pring counted as a 16 year old

[Better Red]

1 minute ago, Lrrr said:

Yes, Max is more than good enough for a championship number 2

Do you think he is No 1 standard at Championship level  Yes/No ?

Do I think he is good enough as a No 2 at this level  - No

1 minute ago, Lrrr said:

And yet you said Pring counted as a 16 year old

It was even doubting included him as joined at 16

[Lrrr]

Just now, Better Red said:

Do you think he is No 1 standard at Championship level  Yes/No ?

Do I think he is good enough as a No 2 at this level  - No

We need a number 2 regardless so it doesn't matter if he's not ready as a number 1, some players are signed specifically as a number 2 and he is definitely good enough as a number 2

[Mr Popodopolous]

I can't work out if Better Red is just being stubbornly obstinate, if they are cleverly on a windup or actually good for a debate skilfully playing Devil's advocate, the latter is quite useful for counterviews when quite rightly out academy is deemed pretty positive.

[And Its Smith]

When Benarous is a success it will be ‘Um, you can’t include him as his name sounds foreign’.   Palmer-Houlden? Not allowed double barrelled surnames sorry. Tommy Conway? No he lives on my road so doesn’t count 

[Monkeh]

On 23/08/2022 at 17:53, Better Red said:

Still not a success

Still not a success

It is for the academy you are stupid if you can't understand that

[Bristol Rob]

Arguing about academy schemes (as we are) anyone watching Football Dreams on C4?

[Jeez]

On 23/08/2022 at 22:23, Better Red said:

21 years old signed to be classed as academy success.

Are your sure that is what you wanted to say?

Because if you are then that sounds wrong by any stretch of the imagination.

Reading this thread you’re 100% intent on degrading something that is a genuine positive strategy the club has employed to benefit us against the wealthier parachute clubs.

This is one area I believe City have really invested into and actually done quite well, so far, but….. you seem to try & find any conceivable angle to knock it.

Why?

[Port Said Red]

1 hour ago, Better Red said:

O’ Leary and Morrell I deliberately left out as I don’t count them as success.

O’Leary - Easy one will never play at Championship as a no 1. level  is L1 at best - I think we all know that. Not really sure why we gave him game time as not up to this standard.

Morrell - Again not playing at Championship level he is back at L1 (back to the criteria we have to create players at Championship level)  I get he played for Wales and that makes it more difficult to say a fail but I stick to criteria of being at min of Championship level.

So both are ‘not’ success.

Apart from the argument about age ( I have said 16+ is not our academy success)  I understand some people disagree and that’s ok.

If I had to pay £1m for every player that had gone ‘through’ the academy I would be questioned why I am paying for players who joined after 16 as they are not true academy players and would won’t a very large reduction for those players.

Is Seymenyo aacademy player ?

Joined at us at 18 ? 
 

Some may say yes - I am saying no that is not a academy product.  
 

People will want to yes because it paints a better picture. I say no because I want the true perspective.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Read it again said 16.

They are professional footballers, that is the aim of the academy, to help players become professionals and have a career. It's not your criteria so thank **** you don't run the academy..

[REDOXO]

The ignore button is the only option for some. Just sayin!

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Moving forward, would we have signed Ben Acey and Tim ap Sion if Alex wasn`t already here? If either of those turns out even half as good as him it will be another success for the academy (and SL!)

Would we have signed Alex Scott had Cam Pring and Jake Andrews not gone on loan to Guernsey FC

[ExiledAjax]

8 hours ago, Better Red said:

O’ Leary and Morrell I deliberately left out as I don’t count them as success.

O’Leary - Easy one will never play at Championship as a no 1. level  is L1 at best - I think we all know that. Not really sure why we gave him game time as not up to this standard.

Morrell - Again not playing at Championship level he is back at L1 (back to the criteria we have to create players at Championship level)  I get he played for Wales and that makes it more difficult to say a fail but I stick to criteria of being at min of Championship level.

So both are ‘not’ success.

Just so I'm clear: was Morrell a success in the 2020/21 season when he was playing in the Championship? Will he become a success  next year if Portsmouth are promoted in May 2023?

Also just to clarify: O'Leary doesn't count as a success because there are secret rules for goalkeepers that says they, unlike outfield players, have to be the No.1 choice in their position at a Championship club in order to be successful?

Conway isn't our number 1 striker yet you count him as a success. Pring isn't our number one left back, yet you include him. Why can they be successes from the bench, yet O'Leary isn't? 

This is the trouble with setting rigid criteria for success, you end up failing them or confusing them or applying them inconsistently to different situations.

[Monkeh]

44 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Just so I'm clear: was Morrell a success in the 2020/21 season when he was playing in the Championship? Will he become a success  next year if Portsmouth are promoted in May 2023?

Also just to clarify: O'Leary doesn't count as a success because there are secret rules for goalkeepers that says they, unlike outfield players, have to be the No.1 choice in their position at a Championship club in order to be successful?

Conway isn't our number 1 striker yet you count him as a success. Pring isn't our number one left back, yet you include him. Why can they be successes from the bench, yet O'Leary isn't? 

This is the trouble with setting rigid criteria for success, you end up failing them or confusing them or applying them inconsistently to different situations.

I'm pretty sure playing in a major international tournament is classed as a success,

How many championship players let alone ones that sucessfuly come through our academy get to do that,

This idiot is just that a trolling moron with nothing better to do then slag off the one part of the football club that is a blinding success

Very odd and sad individual, and that's saying alot coming from me

[Ron W]

18 hours ago, Better Red said:

People will want to yes because it paints a better picture. I say no because I want the true perspective.

Wasn't sure of the exact arrangement of the partnership between SGS and City which brought AS to the club but reading this press release, it is directly linked to the academy from our side. So no academy, no Semenyo.

Re: Morrell, we brought him through the academy, his success internationally is something for our young kids to look up to, we sold him for a fee to another Championship club. I'm struggling to see the negatives here?

Edited August 26, 2022 by RonWalker

[GrahamC]

17 hours ago, Lrrr said:

We need a number 2 regardless so it doesn't matter if he's not ready as a number 1, some players are signed specifically as a number 2 and he is definitely good enough as a number 2

I really wouldn’t bother arguing with him.

Max has started 26 Championship games in his career, he has also been on the bench for us well over 100 times.

He’s been on the subs bench for Ireland a few times as well.

There is absolutely no argument that he is Championship standard, those stats prove it.

Whether he ever ends up being our first choice or that of another Championship club is irreverent, you simply can’t bluff being involved at that level that often.

[PHILINFRANCE]

3 hours ago, RonWalker said:

Wasn't sure of the exact arrangement of the partnership between SGS and City which brought AS to the club but reading this press release, it is directly linked to the academy from our side. So no academy, no Semenyo.

Re: Morrell, we brought him through the academy, his success internationally is something for our young kids to look up to, we sold him for a fee to another Championship club. I'm struggling to see the negatives here?

Thanks for that; a very interesting insight.

It also provided a very nice, quite heartwarming story.

https://www.sgscol.ac.uk/news/Exstudentturnedfamousfootballermakesnostalgic

I can't remember Simon Panes ever playing for City, though.

[Paulton Red]

If we don’t bring players through the academy where do we get them from? 
 

We are a progressive club, it doesn’t count to ffp.

we aren’t the gas

[Better Red]

On 25/08/2022 at 23:19, Port Said Red said:

They are professional footballers, that is the aim of the academy, to help players become professionals and have a career. It's not your criteria so thank **** you don't run the academy..

The academy’s objective is not to ‘ produce professional players’ that do not benefit this football club.

They will except that some players will make it with other clubs thats is a buy product of running it.

Its about producing players to be good enough to play at this club and at the moment ‘Championship’ standard or above as the level we are at.

To be clear - I am not against the academy far from it.

I am just pointing out that when we say players that have come through the academy let’s actually mean it.

O’Leary yes goal keepers are diff   you have to another on the bench even if they won’t play just in case. they will always get games as a back up and yes he has played at Championship level but and here is the big but - I don’t think he is good enough to be a No1 at this level so I don’t think we have produced a Championship standard goal keeper so I don’t think he is a success for this club. We could just have signed another keeper on a free just to sit on the bench.
 

It’s a game of opinions.

Do you think O’Leary is No1 level in the championship? 
 

 

 

[Port Said Red]

22 minutes ago, Better Red said:

The academy’s objective is not to ‘ produce professional players’ that do not benefit this football club.

They will except that some players will make it with other clubs thats is a buy product of running it.

Its about producing players to be good enough to play at this club and at the moment ‘Championship’ standard or above as the level we are at.

To be clear - I am not against the academy far from it.

I am just pointing out that when we say players that have come through the academy let’s actually mean it.

O’Leary yes goal keepers are diff   you have to another on the bench even if they won’t play just in case. they will always get games as a back up and yes he has played at Championship level but and here is the big but - I don’t think he is good enough to be a No1 at this level so I don’t think we have produced a Championship standard goal keeper so I don’t think he is a success for this club. We could just have signed another keeper on a free just to sit on the bench.
 

It’s a game of opinions.

Do you think O’Leary is No1 level in the championship? 
 

 

 

"Bristol City Football Club (in the Third Division at the time) was given a F.A. ‘Centre of Excellence’ licence. The idea behind these centres was to develop young local footballers and produce home-grown talent for professional clubs to use for their first teams."

[Northern Red]

So on the one hand we have the club themselves, players and coaches up and down the land at various levels and fans who know the score.

On the other we have Belter Red.

Hmmm....

[Better Red]

5 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

"Bristol City Football Club (in the Third Division at the time) was given a F.A. ‘Centre of Excellence’ licence. The idea behind these centres was to develop young local footballers and produce home-grown talent for professional clubs to use for their first teams."

Thanks for quote - just confirms with what i said. 
 

Key word was ‘their’ as in Bristol City FC

And their now means ‘Championship’ level.

Glad you agree with me now.

 

Also I notice you won’t answer the question re O’Leary - I take it  you agree with that as well. 
 

So what we arguing about ?

[Better Red]

5 hours ago, Northern Red said:

So on the one hand we have the club themselves, players and coaches up and down the land at various levels and fans who know the score.

On the other we have Belter Red.

Hmmm....

And Port Said Red he agrees now…..

Its Better Red. 

Again it’s not about the validity of the Academy it’s about what players have truest come via it and can be classed as a success

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I actually have a slight bit of info on this one, albeit 2nd hand.

Was told by someone I know that they overheard some of the opposing under 23s raving about the facilities, the HPC etc. Spoke of it in terms of PL basically, they were very impressed from what I was told, not saying which game or when exactly. Was Championship u23s we were playing so not Doncaster or whoever.

Logically, such facilities give a club a great platform, be it to learn, train or attract additional talent. To attract good coaches too and we're seeing results on the pitch too.

I suppose Better Red knows more however. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Sheltons Army]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I actually have a slight bit of info on this one, albeit 2nd hand.

Was told by someone I know that they overheard some of the opposing under 23s raving about the facilities, the HPC etc. Spoke of it in terms of PL basically, they were very impressed from what I was told, not saying which game or when exactly.

Logically, such facilities give a club a great platform, be it to learn, train or attract additional talent. To attract good coaches too and we're seeing results on the pitch too.

I suppose Better Red knows more however. 

What’s also relevant is a very interesting & relevant post by @Lrrr who said (Please correct me if im mistaken Lrrr) that this year is the first year that those elders in the Academy like Conway have spent their entire time / development under the Academy system - the first full graduates if you like 

[Port Said Red]

3 hours ago, Better Red said:

Thanks for quote - just confirms with what i said. 
 

Key word was ‘their’ as in Bristol City FC

And their now means ‘Championship’ level.

Glad you agree with me now.

 

Also I notice you won’t answer the question re O’Leary - I take it  you agree with that as well. 
 

So what we arguing about ?

Ok so you have now confirmed you a wind up merchant. You have read a statement of intent from the club's official website, and deliberately decided to misinterpret it and twist it to match your agenda.

And don't ******* quote me as if I am some kind of disciple.

You need some of this to sort you out.