Queens Park Rangers at home match thread

[Lew-T]

This led to the goal…

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

I’ll try to keep this brief: conscious that our respective replies get longer every time

1. He’s also brought in King and James (part of that bigger picture defensively you mentioned). And allowed others to leave (Moore, Cundy, Idehen). 

2. Might it not also be the case with Naismith that it’s about where we play him - centrally? That’s a tactical decision. 

3. Yes, we have to build. And all I’m suggesting is that, with a renowned defender as manager, you might have hoped that two years into that rebuild we might have as a foundation a defensive unit that didn’t have the crowd gasping with anticipation (of the wrong sort) every time we lose the ball! After the second QPR goal yesterday, when we were simply outnumbered, I watched closely and the number of times that we lost possession (which as you say happens too often) when it was 3 v 3 up front for QPR was frightening. 

4 I get pissed off when Naismith buggers up, but when he does it repeatedly I also get pissed off with Pearson for keeping playing him there. One mistake, of course you can’t blame a manager. Repeated mistakes and nothing changes and yes you can look at the manager. (But I also acknowledge the cost/benefit issue with Naismith - in the first half when one of his Cruyff like turns did come off it set up a great chance for us). And I have also acknowledged that we look a different proposition attack wise, and few managers get both at the same time.

5. I don’t know about a Naismith goal or assist. I’d be happy to just have a game where he doesn’t give the ball away in a dangerous position. 

They do. I’ll be brief too.

1 Cundy was offered a contract. Moore  was not considered reliable enough by LJ or Holden. Idehen I would have kept here but he is getting some experience at least 

2 We play him as the senior pro in the back three as he is the best option for now. Atkinson is only just breaking into this level and Vyner who had a good game yesterday is a changed player

3 You seem to switch between defensive unit being defenders and defensive unit being the team. What we do is give the ball away in poor positions (particularly Massengo that’s why he is always on the bench and Naismith but by no means the only ones) and get punished because we play a pressing game high up the pitch. The loose passes and being caught in possession has to stop. 
 

4 so who do you want to play There instead of Naismith right now? In view of the current situation I would have Kalas or Klose. But they are not available. 
 

5 The point was he needs something to go for him to give him and his confidence a lift. We would all be happy if he had a game where he didn’t look like he was going to do something dumb. 

[italian dave]

17 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

They do. I’ll be brief too.

1 Cundy was offered a contract. Moore  was not considered reliable enough by LJ or Holden. Idehen I would have kept here but he is getting some experience at least 

2 We play him as the senior pro in the back three as he is the best option for now. Atkinson is only just breaking into this level and Vyner who had a good game yesterday is a changed player

3 You seem to switch between defensive unit being defenders and defensive unit being the team. What we do is give the ball away in poor positions (particularly Massengo that’s why he is always on the bench and Naismith but by no means the only ones) and get punished because we play a pressing game high up the pitch. The loose passes and being caught in possession has to stop. 
 

4 so who do you want to play There instead of Naismith right now? In view of the current situation I would have Kalas or Klose. But they are not available. 
 

5 The point was he needs something to go for him to give him and his confidence a lift. We would all be happy if he had a game where he didn’t look like he was going to do something dumb. 

No good asking me what I’d do: I’ve not got 450 games as a top class defender and 20 years as a league manager behind me - that’s the whole point

We don’t know the facts about Klose and Kalas of course. But you’d have to assume that they’d have known in August that we could be without both for some time, so maybe bring someone in short term? I imagine that’s why Bamba was here, but for whatever reason it didn’t work out.

Look, I’m not trying to makes cases about individual players, and on the whole I’d agree with pretty much everything you say on those. All that I’m really trying to suggest is that 

a) it’s disappointing that with a manager with that track record above we can be so poor defensively, as a team, and that

b) after two years here, the argument that NP can only work with what he’s got wears a bit thin. He’s responsible for what he’s got now, and he has to be accountable for that ultimately. Like I said earlier, he’s the fifth longest serving manager: at Watford you get 10 games to create a team’s identity or you’re out! (And, no, I don’t want us to be like Watford )

Oh, and I think you are spot on about Vyner. Shameless attempt to get myself added to your footer list of fame - but I do also agree

[Red-Robbo]

Anyone have a screenshot of when their keeper appeared to handle outside the box?

I'll admit my seat doesn't give me the best view, but those behind the goal and our players seem pretty emphatic that he had. 

 

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

No good asking me what I’d do: I’ve not got 450 games as a top class defender and 20 years as a league manager behind me - that’s the whole point

We don’t know the facts about Klose and Kalas of course. But you’d have to assume that they’d have known in August that we could be without both for some time, so maybe bring someone in short term? I imagine that’s why Bamba was here, but for whatever reason it didn’t work out.

Look, I’m not trying to makes cases about individual players, and on the whole I’d agree with pretty much everything you say on those. All that I’m really trying to suggest is that 

a) it’s disappointing that with a manager with that track record above we can be so poor defensively, as a team, and that

b) after two years here, the argument that NP can only work with what he’s got wears a bit thin. He’s responsible for what he’s got now, and he has to be accountable for that ultimately. Like I said earlier, he’s the fifth longest serving manager: at Watford you get 10 games to create a team’s identity or you’re out! (And, no, I don’t want us to be like Watford )

Oh, and I think you are spot on about Vyner. Shameless attempt to get myself added to your footer list of fame - but I do also agree

Some of the greats of OTIB are on my footer list. They won’t allow me to add anyone  anymore, the buggers, so you’re ok. 
 

By and large we agree on a lot, but IMO we have made huge strides defending dead balls which was a big issue BUT being caught in possession or poor passing by more than a few puts a high line under pressure. We need to get that sorted and for now I think Naismith needs to put his foot through it a bit more (which incidentally is not perfect but supports the notion that Semenyo should start on Tuesday if Naismith plays)

The notion of Pearson will not be held accountable for his team is not one I would ever put to the guy himself without expecting a smack in the mouth. However his team and transfers are constrained by the availability of funds. That is unarguable. 
 

The remit was to be competitive while spending little, until we can create some cash and bring through OUR youngsters. Which I think he is doing in spades.

We can point to failures but we must point to successes too. The way I see it. Yes we can be better, but I really don’t see us being to far off with a couple returning and Naismith getting his head straight (which I suspect will come when something obviously goes his way)

On another note who do you think/how do you think we should set up without Scott? Assuming Sturdays player fitness is the same?

Edited October 2, 2022 by REDOXO

[italian dave]

48 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Some of the greats of OTIB are on my footer list. They won’t allow me to add anyone  anymore, the buggers, so you’re ok. 
 

By and large we agree on a lot, but IMO we have made huge strides defending dead balls which was a big issue BUT being caught in possession or poor passing by more than a few puts a high line under pressure. We need to get that sorted and for now I think Naismith needs to put his foot through it a bit more (which incidentally is not perfect but supports the notion that Semenyo should start on Tuesday if Naismith plays)

The notion of Pearson will not be held accountable for his team is not one I would ever put to the guy himself without expecting a smack in the mouth. However his team and transfers are constrained by the availability of funds. That is unarguable. 
 

The remit was to be competitive while spending little, until we can create some cash and bring through OUR youngsters. Which I think he is doing in spades.

We can point to failures but we must point to successes too. The way I see it. Yes we can be better, but I really don’t see us being to far off with a couple returning and Naismith getting his head straight (which I suspect will come when something obviously goes his way)

On another note who do you think/how do you think we should set up without Scott? Assuming Sturdays player fitness is the same?

Yes, 100% on the dead balls, that’s so much better than last year. And (whisper it) not quite so many late goals recently. 

And yes, it’s great to see our youngsters coming through and he deserves credit for that. It’s a shame in a way that they are all strikers/midfield; I don’t know whether we have any real defenders coming through? 

Good question on Scott. My instinct is that he’ll give Massengo a start. But I think it will probably depend a little on whether he has any other changes in mind. I know he (rightly) likes to stick with unchanged teams, but I guess that after three defeats he may think about other changes. Tanner/Wilson to RB (although Wilson didn’t do himself any favours on Saturday) and Sykes to midfield for example.

I’m one of those lucky enough to have seen the Massengo/Scott performance at Preston last season, and part of me is disappointed it’s Scott out and not Williams as I’d love to see that pairing given a start again. 

What are your thoughts? 

Edited October 2, 2022 by italian dave

[REDOXO]

22 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Yes, 100% on the dead balls, that’s so much better than last year. And (whisper it) not quite so many late goals recently. 

And yes, it’s great to see our youngsters coming through and he deserves credit for that. It’s a shame in a way that they are all strikers/midfield; I don’t know whether we have any real defenders coming through? 

Good question on Scott. My instinct is that he’ll give Massengo a start. But I think it will probably depend a little on whether he has any other changes in mind. I know he (rightly) likes to stick with unchanged teams, but I guess that after three defeats he may think about other changes. Tanner/Wilson to RB (although Wilson didn’t do himself any favours on Saturday) and Sykes to midfield for example.

I’m one of those lucky enough to have seen the Massengo/Scott performance at Preston last season, and part of me is disappointed it’s Scott out and not Williams as I’d love to see that pairing given a start again. 

What are your thoughts? 

I’m thinking (with no knowledge of new injuries or how they are performing at the HPC) that he may start Semenyo with Wells. To my mind Weimann has not been at it recently and obviously took a knock on international duty, but will start. 
 

The midfield if the injury position has not altered will mean Sykes and Williams in the middle with Wilson getting his chance with DeSilva on the other side to start

Which probably will mean unless something has changed that the back three will continue. 

As I alluded earlier in the discussion (which I have thoroughly enjoyed) I am not a fan of HMN (there are a couple on here that if they read that are guffawing for England @leadman@Southport Red) and would only play him as a last resort. 
 

But that’s me! I guess we will see. 

[italian dave]

51 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I’m thinking (with no knowledge of new injuries or how they are performing at the HPC) that he may start Semenyo with Wells. To my mind Weimann has not been at it recently and obviously took a knock on international duty, but will start. 
 

The midfield if the injury position has not altered will mean Sykes and Williams in the middle with Wilson getting his chance with DeSilva on the other side to start

Which probably will mean unless something has changed that the back three will continue. 

As I alluded earlier in the discussion (which I have thoroughly enjoyed) I am not a fan of HMN (there are a couple on here that if they read that are guffawing for England @leadman@Southport Red) and would only play him as a last resort. 
 

But that’s me! I guess we will see. 

Mostly similar then. I've said on another thread I think Semenyo will start. And agree that the RB switch is an option - although as I said I'm not sure Wilson did himself any favours Saturday. 

If we disagree its probably on HNM. I genuinely think there's a very good player in there. He needs a settled role in a settled side - something he's never ever had in his time at City. And at the moment it feels like there's a lot of mind games going on which doesn't help: on the one hand he's getting hints along the lines of 'you won't get a place until you sign a contract' and on the other hand he must be thinking that he doesn't want to sign a contract if he's just going to sit on the bench for the next three years. That needs to be resolved, one way or the other - and that I feel will help no end. Even if its not with us. 

As you say, we'll see!

[pongo88]

5 hours ago, Lew-T said:

This led to the goal…

Three yards offside? I think Pezza must have been on the happy juice. Possibly slightly offside but a borderline decision. It’s no good blaming the assistant ref for this as there is no VAR. Sometimes borderline decisions go your way, and sometimes they don’t. I’ve just watched the extended highlights on Sky and City’s first half defending looked even worse than it did in real time yesterday. When I say “defending” I’m being generous as it was just a selection of players in random positions making basic mistakes. 

[22A]

OK, I wasn't at the game, but have now seen the goals several times on TV. Both of QPR's goals came like the majority this and last season have, The oppos break down our right, their left and cross the ball over. It's as if all teams have told each other; "If playing Bristol City, hit the ball to your left winger, he'll have a clear run. Then when he nears their penalty area, hit it over, works every time".

Now if I can see a common factor in goals conceded, why can't the coaching staff?

[italian dave]

2 hours ago, pongo88 said:

Three yards offside? I think Pezza must have been on the happy juice. Possibly slightly offside but a borderline decision. It’s no good blaming the assistant ref for this as there is no VAR. Sometimes borderline decisions go your way, and sometimes they don’t. I’ve just watched the extended highlights on Sky and City’s first half defending looked even worse than it did in real time yesterday. When I say “defending” I’m being generous as it was just a selection of players in random positions making basic mistakes. 

I agree. And their guy was travelling at some speed too: this has the advantage of being static, and even then it’s not that clear.

The question I ask when looking at that picture is how the f### their guy gets into that position (he’s come all the way down their left hand side) and there’s not a sign of any City player anywhere close to having picked the run up. 

[Southport Red]

On 02/10/2022 at 17:58, REDOXO said:

I’m thinking (with no knowledge of new injuries or how they are performing at the HPC) that he may start Semenyo with Wells. To my mind Weimann has not been at it recently and obviously took a knock on international duty, but will start. 
 

The midfield if the injury position has not altered will mean Sykes and Williams in the middle with Wilson getting his chance with DeSilva on the other side to start

Which probably will mean unless something has changed that the back three will continue. 

As I alluded earlier in the discussion (which I have thoroughly enjoyed) I am not a fan of HMN (there are a couple on here that if they read that are guffawing for England @leadman@Southport Red) and would only play him as a last resort. 
 

But that’s me! I guess we will see. 

You’ll be gutted tonight Oxo, your French friend was decent

[REDOXO]

12 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

You’ll be gutted tonight Oxo, your French friend was decent

Decent enough.
 

Hope the boy does something to turn me around. I could only listen to the first half, he had a shot off target I heard. 
 

Second half which I did see he was ok. He often doesn’t get enough on passes which I think Chris Honor commented on too. However he could be in there with Scott whether i like it or not on Saturday. So good luck to him. 

[Southport Red]

11 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Decent enough.
 

Hope the boy does something to turn me around. I could only listen to the first half, he had a shot off target I heard. 
 

Second half which I did see he was ok. He often doesn’t get enough on passes which I think Chris Honor commented on too. However he could be in there with Scott whether i like it or not on Saturday. So good luck to him. 

Shot just off. He hit it well and it was v close. Probs the closest he’s come and the. Closest we got to scoring. 

[REDOXO]

19 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

Shot just off. He hit it well and it was v close. Probs the closest he’s come and the. Closest we got to scoring. 

Did Pearson say anything about Wilson. Not even on the bench if I’m not mistaken?