Pearson

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Lummydaze, I was expecting a right car-crash of an interview given the comments. There are some right sensitive little petals amongst us aren’t there.

Don’t see anything other than a manager answering the questions in a diplomatic, controlled, measured way, despite clearly being livid with his players. Fair play I say. I hope he takes his uncontrolled anger fully out on our under-performers and don’t carers.

We HAVE to change our DNA. We’ve been way too soft for decades. 
 

The players really put the effort in for Scotty and his 25th didn’t they?  Do they care? 

 

I listened back today, and I didn’t think it was as bad as it appeared yesterday evening.  I read the press interview earlier, hadn’t seen it til then.

Assuming it’s the truth, then it’s a bit too honest…but that is Nige.  I’d prefer he’d chosen better words to describe the situation.

Assuming it is the truth, then you can see why he’s picked King…although there were other options.

Not Nige’s finest interview by any stretch though, but boy, there ain’t arf some piling in on the back of it.

[Top Robin]

17 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Lummydaze, I was expecting a right car-crash of an interview given the comments. There are some right sensitive little petals amongst us aren’t there.

Don’t see anything other than a manager answering the questions in a diplomatic, controlled, measured way, despite clearly being livid with his players. Fair play I say. I hope he takes his uncontrolled anger fully out on our under-performers and don’t carers.

We HAVE to change our DNA. We’ve been way too soft for decades. 
 

The players really put the effort in for Scotty and his 25th didn’t they?  Do they care? 

 

Pearson has spouted the same crap after similar games for 2 years. He talks a good game in an authoritarian way but in reality it's just waffle - but so many are taken in by it.

He has stalled as a manager and has run out of ideas.

I think his old school management style is past it's sell by date....time for a young, energetic manager with fresh ideas and the sooner the better.

 

 

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, TBW said:

I think I'm now firmly part of the Pearson-Out Brigade after listening to this...

The man has lost it.

https://twitter.com/AdamBakerPR/status/1604451808830787585?s=20&t=QV4TwJRG0k-Ye_duEw_nEg

 

Is this the same Adam ‘ brown nose ‘ Baker who was awful  whilst here ?

 I don’t think Pearson is rude but he doesn’t suffer fools gladly and to face the same mundane  Ill thought out questions twice a week would test anyone’s patience.

As for ‘ throwing Atkinson under the bus’ I trust Pearson with his handling of the players. We know nothing of what goes on behind the scenes, perhaps he wants to fire the player up into being a bit more agressive? 
It seems to have worked for Pring. 
 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

Pearson has spouted the same crap after similar games for 2 years. He talks a good game in an authoritarian way but in reality it's just waffle - but so many are taken in by it.

He has stalled as a manager and has run out of ideas.

I think his old school management style is past it's sell by date....time for a young, energetic manager with fresh ideas and the sooner the better.

 

 

Bring it on then.

Announce “Liam Manning” type (I realise I put Liam Kitching in another thread…wrong Liam…doh!!).

I’ll back whoever…even if I think getting rid of Nige at this point would be a mistake.

I’m a bit fed up putting across my side of the argument.

[RedRock]

16 minutes ago, redkev said:

I’m in your camp regarding the players , I do think sometimes his press conferences are rather bizarre, as for the players I really believe we need a couple of Roy Keane type characters in the squad not just physicallity but mentally , someone who demands high standards on and off the pitch Ben when training .

I read somewhere that when Rio joined utd his first training session after 3 backward / sideway passes Keane screamed at him literally your at Manchester utd now we don’t fanny about here we go forward , Rio said that was what Keane was like all the time demanding more all the time and he said it made Uniteds players drive on more and more .

city really need that , we have no leadership or winners in our squad we seem to be happy with mediocrity 

How many times have some of us said we need leaders and winners in our team? 
 

Just thinking about Rio…. never forget watching Lloyd Kelly thinking this is a revelation. A defensive player who had a controlling first touch that took the ball forward and mindset to play fast forward, not sideways or backwards. Briefest of encounters but, hey, shows what can be done.

Returning to Pearson, while defending him for the conduct of the interview, and being generally supportive, we now need signs of sustained improvement. It’s increasingly looking like the same old. He’s had the time, appointed his own backroom staff and signed a number of players … they need  to deliver. 

[spudski]

Something that's crossed my mind, is that again, and it happens most seasons...the mention in recent interviews, is that NP, ' the Club', expect us to be nearer the play offs, rather than where we are now. 

Our performances deserve better results he says. 

He and the ' Club' clearly feel...or it's smoke and mirrors'..that our performances, playing staff and I guess management/ coaching deserve better results.

The fact these comments have been made, stick in fans brains. We are expecting better. Sublimily.

The results and performances are inconsistent. 

NP says he picks players he trusts...yet they make the mistakes. Some good days, some bad. Consistently inconsistent.

He says we are shooting ourselves in the foot. The opposition aren't causing massive problems. We concede often through individual mistakes like yesterday. 

I think NP would gain more respect if he came out occasionally and said he trusted players, picked them, and they made mistakes. If it happened once...we'd get it. However, the players he picks and trusts keep making the mistakes...so the onus is on him.

Personally I think we could do a whole lot better if we played differently. Our set up is weak, and allows teams to easily exploit our weaknesses.

NP himself has said we'll concede goals with the way we play...and that we need to score more. 

Perhaps it's time to change tactics...become less reliant on wide play and delivery...and allowing teams in behind wide. 

Keep doing the same thing over and over again, with different players is idiotic imo if it's not working.

There is an element of stubbornness that's coming through that's holding us back imo. 

We saw it with Cotts towards the end,cand now we are seeing it with NP. 

Let's face it...he has nothing to gain or lose from managing us. He sees us as a quirky club that needs overhauling. 

Others would say we've been a basket case of unprofessionalism for years. 

The frustrations are definitely coming to the fore. 

 

[redkev]

21 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

Pearson has spouted the same crap after similar games for 2 years. He talks a good game in an authoritarian way but in reality it's just waffle - but so many are taken in by it.

He has stalled as a manager and has run out of ideas.

I think his old school management style is past it's sell by date....time for a young, energetic manager with fresh ideas and the sooner the better.

 

 

Barton anyone

[Frenchay Red]

The question must be whether King is better at CB than an apparently less hard working/enthusiastic Atkinson?

I think I would risk it with Atkinson, who looks a far better defender and a threat going forward and at corners.

[Davefevs]

@spudskithe players not in the team currently made mistakes when they were in the team too.  Mistakes cost us.  I don’t think they are system caused 8in the main) but individual caused.  There will of course be some where system exposes the individual.

As for set up….I wish he hadn’t settled for a back three system.  Big believer that a back three system requires different recruitment to a back four system…duh…that’s obvious, but what I mean is that it’s far harder to switch away from once you’ve committed to it too.

In the summer I thought he’d go back four.  I still think if we’d got Rinomhota we would’ve gone back four.  The lack of the required DM meant we stayed back three.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Frenchay Red said:

The question must be whether King is better at CB than an apparently less hard working/enthusiastic Atkinson?

I think I would risk it with Atkinson, who looks a far better defender and a threat going forward and at corners.

I would too.

(I back Nige, think he’s doing fine, but it doesn’t mean I agree with everything he does)

[lenred]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I would too.

(I back Nige, think he’s doing fine, but it doesn’t mean I agree with everything he does)

Sorry Dave.   No nuance is allowed!  

[BasSavage88]

47 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m a bit fed up putting across my side of the argument.

That's because youre wrong

Edited December 18, 2022 by BasSavage88

[spudski]

55 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@spudskithe players not in the team currently made mistakes when they were in the team too.  Mistakes cost us.  I don’t think they are system caused 8in the main) but individual caused.  There will of course be some where system exposes the individual.

As for set up….I wish he hadn’t settled for a back three system.  Big believer that a back three system requires different recruitment to a back four system…duh…that’s obvious, but what I mean is that it’s far harder to switch away from once you’ve committed to it too.

In the summer I thought he’d go back four.  I still think if we’d got Rinomhota we would’ve gone back four.  The lack of the required DM meant we stayed back three.

Oh yes...I agree with what you say...however, the fact his trusted players make mistakes and he doesn't call them out is unfair. If his trusted players do it as well...then it's a reflection of his judgement. I like his honesty...but I want honesty across the board, not when it fits his decision making.

If he's dropping Atkinson because he can't trust him, then on other performances/ mistakes King shouldn't be trusted either. NP can't have it both ways and not be called out on it.

I agree it's individual mistakes down to individual error, rather than system.

My point was that I think we could be far more affective playing a different system. A system that would eleviate a less likely chance of an individual error...if that makes sense.

[Davefevs]

50 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

That's because youre wrong

You’ve flamed my enthusiasm again…ta.

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Something that's crossed my mind, is that again, and it happens most seasons...the mention in recent interviews, is that NP, ' the Club', expect us to be nearer the play offs, rather than where we are now. 

Our performances deserve better results he says. 

He and the ' Club' clearly feel...or it's smoke and mirrors'..that our performances, playing staff and I guess management/ coaching deserve better results.

The fact these comments have been made, stick in fans brains. We are expecting better. Sublimily.

The results and performances are inconsistent. 

NP says he picks players he trusts...yet they make the mistakes. Some good days, some bad. Consistently inconsistent.

He says we are shooting ourselves in the foot. The opposition aren't causing massive problems. We concede often through individual mistakes like yesterday. 

I think NP would gain more respect if he came out occasionally and said he trusted players, picked them, and they made mistakes. If it happened once...we'd get it. However, the players he picks and trusts keep making the mistakes...so the onus is on him.

Personally I think we could do a whole lot better if we played differently. Our set up is weak, and allows teams to easily exploit our weaknesses.

NP himself has said we'll concede goals with the way we play...and that we need to score more. 

Perhaps it's time to change tactics...become less reliant on wide play and delivery...and allowing teams in behind wide. 

Keep doing the same thing over and over again, with different players is idiotic imo if it's not working.

There is an element of stubbornness that's coming through that's holding us back imo. 

We saw it with Cotts towards the end,cand now we are seeing it with NP. 

Let's face it...he has nothing to gain or lose from managing us. He sees us as a quirky club that needs overhauling. 

Others would say we've been a basket case of unprofessionalism for years. 

The frustrations are definitely coming to the fore. 

 

Your comment about having to put our arms around players and saying we trust them is exactly why we have underachieved for god knows how long. We are too nice as a football club. 

Generally our performances have been fine. So why do we need to change tactically? We just need to cut out the mistakes and then score the numerous goal scoring opportunities we get. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

47 minutes ago, spudski said:

Oh yes...I agree with what you say...however, the fact his trusted players make mistakes and he doesn't call them out is unfair. If his trusted players do it as well...then it's a reflection of his judgement. I like his honesty...but I want honesty across the board, not when it fits his decision making.

If he's dropping Atkinson because he can't trust him, then on other performances/ mistakes King shouldn't be trusted either. NP can't have it both ways and not be called out on it.

I agree it's individual mistakes down to individual error, rather than system.

My point was that I think we could be far more affective playing a different system. A system that would eleviate a less likely chance of an individual error...if that makes sense.

You've given a lot of broad answers here rather than giving specifics. 

What trusted players have made mistakes and when? 

Do you not think that a CM playing CB gets a little bit more leeway than a CB playing at CB? 

The trust comments were down to his lack of help for the youngsters against Lincoln and the enthusiasm comment I believe is to do with how long he seems to recover from illnesses. Pearson clearly believes he can be a bit more enthusiastic in his recovery. 

Again, you're just saying system without giving any specifics. What system could we play that we have the players to play? 

[spudski]

7 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Your comment about having to put our arms around players and saying we trust them is exactly why we have underachieved for god knows how long. We are too nice as a football club. 

Generally our performances have been fine. So why do we need to change tactically? We just need to cut out the mistakes and then score the numerous goal scoring opportunities we get. 

Where have I said that? First paragraph? I've never said that...

3 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

You've given a lot of broad answers here rather than giving specifics. 

What trusted players have made mistakes and when? 

Do you not think that a CM playing CB gets a little bit more leeway than a CB playing at CB? 

The trust comments were down to his lack of help for the youngsters against Lincoln and the enthusiasm comment I believe is to do with how long he seems to recover from illnesses. Pearson clearly believes he can be a bit more enthusiastic in his recovery. 

Again, you're just saying system without giving any specifics. What system could we play that we have the players to play? 

King yesterday made mistakes and before. He's NPs trusted player.

No one is blaming King perse for the error. People are pointing out King was put in that position by NP. He made the choice. 

I've not mentioned the specifics re Atkinson.

As for system...I've posted many times on here, on various threads as to system, pros and cons etc.

[headhunter]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@spudskithe players not in the team currently made mistakes when they were in the team too.  Mistakes cost us.  I don’t think they are system caused 8in the main) but individual caused.  There will of course be some where system exposes the individual.

As for set up….I wish he hadn’t settled for a back three system.  Big believer that a back three system requires different recruitment to a back four system…duh…that’s obvious, but what I mean is that it’s far harder to switch away from once you’ve committed to it too.

In the summer I thought he’d go back four.  I still think if we’d got Rinomhota we would’ve gone back four.  The lack of the required DM meant we stayed back three.

If we had got Rinomhota how would you line up and assume that's with no Kalas nor Wilson, out through injury? Interested to see shape of side.

[spudski]

13 minutes ago, headhunter said:

If we had got Rinomhota how would you line up and assume that's with no Kalas nor Wilson, out through injury? Interested to see shape of side.

You mention Rinomhota...I find it amusing that NP has said he would like a ' Maverick ' and it would challenge his managerial skills. 

Kinnel...he can barely manage and trust 'standard' professionals, let alone a maverick.

I'm beginning to lose trust in some things NP says. 

Trust goes two ways.

 

[The Fat Controller]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I listened back today, and I didn’t think it was as bad as it appeared yesterday evening.  I read the press interview earlier, hadn’t seen it til then.

Assuming it’s the truth, then it’s a bit too honest…but that is Nige.  I’d prefer he’d chosen better words to describe the situation.

Assuming it is the truth, then you can see why he’s picked King…although there were other options.

Not Nige’s finest interview by any stretch though, but boy, there ain’t arf some piling in on the back of it.

Not half as much as there would've been if it had been a Holden or Johnson interview. 

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, headhunter said:

If we had got Rinomhota how would you line up and assume that's with no Kalas nor Wilson, out through injury? Interested to see shape of side.

I wouldn’t have recruited Wilson because I would’ve been going for a back four!

Ideally I’d have been looking at (without hindsight) something like this:

GK - Bentley

RB - Tanner (plus a different RB recruited)

CB - Kalas

CB - Atkinson (plus another CB recruited as Kalas has had injuries)

LB - Pring

CM - James

CM - Rinomhota 

CM - Williams (perm the 3 CMs with Scott, Massengo)

AM - Weimann

CF - Martin

CF - Semenyo

I wouldn’t have recruited Sykes, nor offered Klose a new deal.  I’d have recruited another CB and then made my mind up about Vyner.  I think it was a call on who we signed first - Rinomhota or Naismith, we couldn’t get both.  We got Naismith and that dictated other things like Wilson.

So a bit of a 4312, or at times one true DM in a 4132.

[bengalcub]

Atkinson has been one of the highlights this season for us , Andy king isn’t good enough to get into our powderpuff midfield so I’m baffled how np thinks he can do the job at the back ? , time for a change I feel 

[BasSavage88]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I wouldn’t have recruited Wilson because I would’ve been going for a back four!

Ideally I’d have been looking at (without hindsight) something like this:

GK - Bentley

RB - Tanner (plus a different RB recruited)

CB - Kalas

CB - Atkinson (plus another CB recruited as Kalas has had injuries)

LB - Pring

CM - James

CM - Rinomhota 

CM - Williams (perm the 3 CMs with Scott, Massengo)

AM - Weimann

CF - Martin

CF - Semenyo

I wouldn’t have recruited Sykes, nor offered Klose a new deal.  I’d have recruited another CB and then made my mind up about Vyner.  I think it was a call on who we signed first - Rinomhota or Naismith, we couldn’t get both.  We got Naismith and that dictated other things like Wilson.

So a bit of a 4312, or at times one true DM in a 4132.

 

 

Just when I thought you couldn't be more wrong about everything.......boom

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Personally I think we could do a whole lot better if we played differently. Our set up is weak, and allows teams to easily exploit our weaknesses.

NP himself has said we'll concede goals with the way we play...and that we need to score more. 

Perhaps it's time to change tactics...become less reliant on wide play and delivery...and allowing teams in behind wide. 

We don't have the players. 

[spudski]

Just now, Merrick's Marvels said:

We don't have the players. 

I'll agree to disagree with you.

We have players that are capable and imo would be more affective and efficient in playing a more ' central' way.

We rely too much on wide play...both offensively in generally poor crossing, and weak wide defensive areas, where we get exposed and targeted. 

We are quite capable of playing a more 433 pattern. 

That's the simplistic answer.

[Davefevs]

40 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

 

 

Just when I thought you couldn't be more wrong about everything.......boom

Oh

[And Its Smith]

Keep Pearson until Feb and see where we are.  Interesting to see the staunch Pearson fans re-thinking things.  Pretty sure everyone has doubts now.  Inconsistent across a game, can’t improve the defence, calling players out personally.  I always say keep a manager until it’s 100% clear he can’t achieve what he needs to achieve. Not there yet but it’s starting to get concerning. 

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Keep Pearson until Feb and see where we are.  Interesting to see the staunch Pearson fans re-thinking things.  Pretty sure everyone has doubts now.  Inconsistent across a game, can’t improve the defence, calling players out personally.  I always say keep a manager until it’s 100% clear he can’t achieve what he needs to achieve. Not there yet but it’s starting to get concerning. 

Just to be clear, if you thought a couple of my posts today were me changing my view, I was being facetious.  Yesterday’s result changes little, just as the win last week didn’t either.  I still think we need Nige at this point in time and that he’s doing okay with the resources available.

But if you are referring to others, then ignore me.

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

I'll agree to disagree with you.

We have players that are capable and imo would be more affective and efficient in playing a more ' central' way.

We rely too much on wide play...both offensively in generally poor crossing, and weak wide defensive areas, where we get exposed and targeted. 

We are quite capable of playing a more 433 pattern. 

That's the simplistic answer.

Happy to agree to disagree  You obviously have more confidence in some of our players! 

My own thoughts, as regards a 433:

Not convinced myself that any of our full backs are particularly good defenders, rather their strong suit seems to be going forwards. Tanner at a push maybe but he's supposed to be one for the future and we're talking about the here and now.

We're trying to have better possession stats, so we've brought in a ball playing centre half - Naismith therefore plays but I'm not entirely sold on him as a defender either and not in a 2, unless there's serious pace alongside him. Who's that?

I'm not having Vyner at CB in a 4 and Kalas is never fit, so who plays RCB?

Vyner could play RB I suppose if you were asking the full backs to stay at home more than attack. In any case, we can't possibly play with high full backs in a 4 without a quality, mobile CDM and we don't have one of those. If we did, Scott's a shoe-in but, in a 433, I'm not sold on Williams or James having the legs required to complete that midfield.

And I don't think we have the right blend of forwards to play a 433 either. Who's good enough to play solo centrally? It was Martin, which allowed WSM to flourish last season, but he's past it now. 

So by my reckoning, in January we would need a new Chris Martin, a quality CDM, a pacy CB, and a LB to make 433 a realistic option this season. Which ain't happening. 

It would mean abandoning Wells-Conway as a partnership, this season's only highlight in terms of team development. And this hypothetical formation would still include Vyner and Naismith in defence, meaning the potential would remain high for the sort of individual pratfalls that continue to cost us goals and drive the manager potty, whoever and however we line up. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[spudski]

11 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Happy to agree to disagree

As regards a 433:

Not convinced myself that any of our full backs are particularly good defenders, rather their strong suit seems to be going forwards. Tanner at a push maybe but he's supposed to be one for the future and we're talking about the here and now?

We're trying to have better possession stats, so we've brought in a ball playing centre half - Naismith therefore plays but I'm not entirely sold on him as a defender either and not in a 2, unless there's serious pace alongside him. 

I'm not having Vyner at CB in a 4 and Kalas is never fit, so who plays RCB? Vyner could play RB I suppose if you were asking the full backs to stay at home more than attack.

In any case, we can't possibly play with high full backs in a 4 without a quality, mobile CDM and we don't have one of those. If we did, Scott's a shoe-in but, in a 433, I'm not sold on Williams or James having the legs required to complete that midfield.

And I don't think we have the right blend of forwards to play a 433 either. Who's good enough to play solo centrally? It was Martin, which allowed WSM to flourish last season, but he's past it now. 

So by my reckoning, in January we would need a new Chris Martin, a quality CDM, a pacy CB, and a LB to make 433 a realistic option this season. Which ain't happening. 

This hypothetical team would still include Vyner and Naismith in defence, so the potential would remain high for the sort of individual pratfalls that continue to cost us goals and drive the manager potty, whoever and however we line up. 

Thanks for your reply and thoughts.

I'm guessing by your view of having one playing centrally, you have a restricted view of the 433.

The modern 433 is very versatile and has lots of mobility. 

As an example the front 3 can rotate.

The fullbacks can also be used like a wing back on occasion. 

This article is very easy to read and in layman's term as to the 433 versatility.

https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/4-3-3-football-tactics-explained-formation-liverpool-klopp-barcelona-guardiola/#:~:text=What is a 4-3,more advanced to either side. 

I could easily see the following.

-------------------------Max--------------------------- 

Vyner------Atkinson----Naismith---Pring 

-----------------------james------------------------- 

-------williams---------------scott--------------- 

----------------------Weimann----------------------

--------------Conway----------Wells--------------

You have Kalas that can play CB as well.

Also Semenyo in one of the front three.