Pearson

[Bar BS3]

13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

was it?  We defended poorly twice and got punished.  It wasn’t a great game, but we weren’t shocking at all imho.  We created a lot of chances, decent chances, we didn’t take them.

I thought we looked very good & fully in control for most of the first half. 

After they equalised, we looked clueless, shapeless and had no plan whatsoever.

[Rob k]

I think the issue with yesterday was that Stoke were really really poor and have walked away with 3 points, we then find out Atkinson was fit to play and imo we don’t concede those goals with him playing so for me (who’s defended NP all along) that’s on the manager 

[Hazelboy]

I think the question that needs to be asked is, do you trust Pearson to rebuild an entire squad?  as with so many OOC, he will have to in the summer.

For me I’m really struggling with this, of his signings he’s fallen out/ not played/ not trusted, Simpson, Klose, Atkinson (the only one he’s actually paid a decent fee for) Tanner & Wilson to an extent, although Tanner was labelled from the start as one for the future (still took every opportunity to shoot him down last season) 

Add in Sykes, who’s looked utter shite since his red card plus King well and truly past it & being played out of position.

Unless I’ve forgotten somebody that only leaves James & Naismith as ‘good’ signings. 
 

I’ve fallen into that horrible really wouldn’t be bothered if he went camp.

[petehinton]

11 minutes ago, Hazelboy said:

I think the question that needs to be asked is, do you trust Pearson to rebuild an entire squad?  as with so many OOC, he will have to in the summer.

For me I’m really struggling with this, of his signings he’s fallen out/ not played/ not trusted, Simpson, Klose, Atkinson (the only one he’s actually paid a decent fee for) Tanner & Wilson to an extent, although Tanner was labelled from the start as one for the future (still took every opportunity to shoot him down last season) 

Add in Sykes, who’s looked utter shite since his red card plus King well and truly past it & being played out of position.

Unless I’ve forgotten somebody that only leaves James & Naismith as ‘good’ signings. 
 

I’ve fallen into that horrible really wouldn’t be bothered if he went camp.

Simpson, Klose and even King were necessities really and were all very cheap ones. Tanner will definitely get better, as will Wilson, both will make us a better side as the years go on. Naismith a coup. Atkinson will go for big money too imo. 
 

You also have to see what he’s done to Scott, Semenyo, and Conway. He’s getting us £20m+ for those three and how they’ve been developed under him. I think it’s too black and white to look at pure incomings and nothing else. 
 

I’d certainly trust him over previous mangers. It’s just evaluating the situation we’re in once he’s finally given a chance to spend some cash. 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

For me it’s whether consistency comes and when it does, which direction is it. Don’t buy that we’re awful, yesterday wasn’t as bad as lots seem to think, in my view. Equally Rotherham wasn’t earth shatteringly brilliant. We’re not going on consistently good or bad runs and think that’s a reasonable reflection of a pretty weak squad that’s in a pretty weak league. January feels important as an opportunity to sort some stuff out and equally rivals will be looking to do the same - if we get it wrong, maybe we get dragged in to a relegation fight, get it right and maybe we head the other way.

Don’t think NP is the messiah or a genius and whilst I get that expecting folk who want NP gone to name their replacement isn’t their job, equally there would have to be a replacement and right now, I’m sticking with NP as not convinced there are clearly better options to work with what we have and do think we’ve made progress in some areas. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by The Swan and Cemetery

[Andy082005]

4 hours ago, MC RISK77 said:

It is also concerning that Pearson does appear to have a number of falling outs with players, and he is not shy at airing some of the dirty laundry in interviews.

I am not sure this affects the dressing room positively- it seems an old school management technique that I don’t think works in a world of multi millionaire players.

It clearly doesn’t . It’s become very clear that Pearson and his style of management is passed its use by date. It’s why we don’t see the likes of Allardyce and Pardew getting jobs anymore, and why the likes of Bruce and Hughes will soon become completely unemployable to. Football has evolved so much over the last 5-10 years

I am Genuinely concerned that we are going to go down this year.  With Richard Gould leaving soon, this rudderless ship has absolutely no one steering it. 
 

And i’m sure I’ll get jumped on by a few on here - but what’s making things even more uncomfortable are those scum bags are starting to gain a bit of momentum at the right time. The thought of being in the same league as those ***** is bad enough ….the thought of swapping places make me feel sick 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Harry said:

Why didn’t he follow up on this. 
“Why don’t you trust Atkinson?” “what has Atkinson done to put your trust in an attacking midfielder by trade?”  “What would Atkinson need to do to gain your trust?”  “Why was Tanner not considered instead, with Vyner to play centrally instead of a midfielder?” “What’s happened to Klose?” “How far away is Kalas”. “Why didn’t you play Naismith central, as you did most of the season so far and put Pring as LCB, bringing in Dasilva?”

So many possible follow up questions. And he asked none. Poor journalism 

If this isn’t the thrust of Thursday’s press interviews, then they are missing a big opportunity.

3 hours ago, eardun said:

I think Pearson does too. Which is the issue I think because, for whatever reason, Pearson feels Atkinson is not fulfilling his potential. Atkinson had a rocky period last season as well - admitted he put on too much weight etc - and let’s hope that he can come back again. Hopefully Pearson’s motivation tactics work. 

 

Yep, we don’t know.  Not everything has to be a falling out (ref to @Andy082005post). Re Andy’s post.

Kalas - booted Wells up in the air in training, Nige asked him why he didn’t do it on a Saturday, squared up to each other.  Is that a falling out?  Doesn’t seem to have had any impact on their relationship.

Massengo - sees his future elsewhere, appears to be no animosity on either side.

Bentley - wants more money than we can afford, Nige needs to see if Max can do the job.  So far he’s passing the test.

No player wants to be kept out, we’ve heard Bentley himself say he hates it.  Doesn’t mean it’s a falling out per se.

2 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

I dont see this.

We haven't improved on the pitch and that's fact, we haven't improved our points tally compared to last season and that's fact too. Some players have improved yet some have seemingly gone backwards.

You mentioned about the improvement of Wells this season yet fail to mention he was rarely used last season. 

The playing of players in unfamiliar positions has become a trademark whilst the constant "trust" issues are concerning. The issue of money at BCFC is not a problem purely for BCFC but for over half the clubs in the Championship.

Most ( but not all) of the time, the players don't seem to have the burning desire to keep the ball out of the net making silly mistakes or just switching off. We look like a team very much in the frame as a relegation candidate and I think this is more down to Nigel Pearson than a lack of quality in the squad.

 

I know you don’t see it.

We are gonna differ in our opinions.

Re finances despite Covid hitting badly, it hasn’t impacted anywhere near half the clubs because they weren’t in such a mess going into the pandemic. Some have Cashflow issues, but very few are in the situation we are.  Having lost £38m in the season covid partially impacted it, we lose £28m in a season with full crowds.  That £10m improvement comes from reducing the playing budget.  To get it down to something more manageable it’s the playing budget that takes the hit.  The costs elsewhere in the business are astonishing.

And re you final paragraph, why do they do what you state…because they aren’t as good as many people think they are.  People tend to judge player ability on their best game, not their average game.  The overall quality / depth of the squad is making Nige think he’s better off playing players out of position.  I don’t agree with that, but I also accept that he might have very good reasons to do that.

We can all say why didn’t he just bring in Vyner for King yesterday, but as much as Zak has improved this season, he’s still made rickets defensively too.  There are no consequences to our propositions on OTIB.

I think we will be ok.  Just about enough quality (as long as we don’t get injuries) to keep away from trouble.  I’m not saying we can’t go down either, that’s a possibility.

Nige isn’t perfect.  But you don’t get a perfect manager in our current state.  We couldn’t get one in the summer of 2020 when we appointed Holden.  I’m pretty sure Hughton, etc asked about funds to develop the squad and quickly backtracked any thoughts of joining when they heard there wasn’t any!  Nige has experience, a view on what is needed to take us to the next level, which is something we haven’t had before.  We don’t begin to come out of this mess until the summer, and then spotlight will be on Tinnion / Gilhespy to replace those players who leave and free up some playing budget.  Selling Semenyo this window might help quicken that up, but I’m not sure it will happen.

Let’s just relieve Nige of his duties now, it seems it’s what people really want.  We can then reflect at the end of the season whether it was the right thing to do.

Announce Liam Kitching tomorrow.

Or maybe Mike Flynn.

[Banjo Red]

So of some of the assets are sold who do we bring in?

[Sleepy1968]

6 hours ago, Countryfile said:

For my money Bentley is a better keeper than O’Leary, and is not first choice because the club (NP) can’t agree a new contract, he will either be sold in January or run down his contract. Which keeper would other Championship clubs take if they had a choice right now?

Don't think there's much in it. Clearly an eye to the future: But we can almost guarantee O'Leary signs a new contract for 2/3rds of what we'd have to offer Bents for him to consider re-signing, and Bents would probably take as much time as he could before making a decision (assuming he wasn't getting better offers elsewhere), and if he doesn't sign, what? O'Leary is gone and we'd be stuck with two young inexperienced keepers, meaning we'd have to sign an experienced one ...

The same applies to Massengo who if not a first choice is worth  a place on the bench when we haven’t named a single midfield substitute.

Yep - rod for own back.

Dasilva, can’t remember the last time he had a decent game, another one who will leave.

Agreed. Better defender than Pring, but not a wing back. Pring offers so much more offensively, a bit less defensively.

Klose and Martin, both can no longer reach the level required to play in the Championship, for  both players this is their last season at this level.

Agreed.

Kalas, the mystery injury man, has taken an age to recover and appears to be as far away as ever, can’t sell him injured, another to leave at the end of the season.

£20-25k pw millstone. I don't see him playing for us again.

Semenyo, has just played at the World Cup but is not considered good enough or fit enough to start for a bottom half Championship side, is he being held back because a fee has been agreed with another club already? He should be starting if fit, yesterday he should have been up against 41 year old Jageilka(sp) from the start.

He seems ill-disciplined and his control is woeful at times. He spent more time yesterday berating the ref than concentrating on his game. I am disappointed in his recent displays, and believe Wells and Conway the better option, but what you say about running him against PJ was an option we could have explored. Certainly an in form Seymenyo is unplayable at this level.

I could go on but I doubt anyone is still reading……..

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Sleepy1968

[Red-Robbo]

47 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Let’s just relieve Nige of his duties now, it seems it’s what people really want.  We can then reflect at the end of the season whether it was the right thing to do.

 

We don't live in the relegation zone yet, but we're in its suburbs. I think if we moved into that spot in January, the board will think enough-is-enough. Other teams with financial restraints are performing better and to-an-extent, a lot of our losses this season do not come from a lack of quality: They seem to come from poor coaching of the basics, poor selections, unhelpful substitutions and a sort-of-undefinable lack of oomph that some interpret as lack of caring, but I feel is more lack of confidence.

If we continue to be disappointing but not League One-bound, I'd advocate keeping Pearson on and perhaps having a little think in the summer about where we are going in 23/24. 

[JoeAman08]

5 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

I'm seeing NP in a similar light to SOD now, both had  a tough job in a transition period for the club, they did what was necessary to reset the clock, then somebody else is needed to come in and take the glory.

I don't deny it's been tough for NP with the lack of cash and overblown squad and all the rest of it, but I can't see he is ever going to be able to take advantage of things once sorted because he's already spent in terms of what he says and does and I think a fresh manager with fresh ideas COULD push us on.

His record is nothing short of awful really, he's closing in on 100 games in charge and has lost half of his games!  I wanted him here, I thought he would succeed but I just can't see it working 

I can see that argument that he come in and did what was needed to do. I just feel like he is getting credit for something that would have been done if it was him or any other manager. 
 

There was a culture problem and it does feel like he has upped that. Also it felt like it was at an all time low when he arrived. I can’t argue it seems like the non playing staff is more aligned than I can remember. Is that all NP or RG getting credit too? Then we have the playing staff side too. In theory, saying you have to earn the shirt is a good theory. Can’t you go too far though? Leaving out the CB you bought for the only real money you had for a 34 year old CM seems very spiteful. Leaving Wells out all year always felt like spite because of his wage. 
 

What it comes down to for me is how we are performing on a match day. Every other thing credit can be dished out elsewhere. Not that NP should not get credit as well for these things. Just that he is wholly responsible on a match day which is where we have progressed the least. I never expected miracles like a playoff run but by this season I expected to flirt with them for a good portion of the season. More worryingly than the points is the performances are just not up to scratch often enough and he has said that himself. The soft goals we concede is something I definitely expected to be rectified by now. 
 

 

[Major Isewater]

17 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

We don't live in the relegation zone yet, but we're in its suburbs. I think if we moved into that spot in January, the board will think enough-is-enough. Other teams with financial restraints are performing better and to-an-extent, a lot of our losses this season do not come from a lack of quality: They seem to come from poor coaching of the basics, poor selections, unhelpful substitutions and a sort-of-undefinable lack of oomph that some interpret as lack of caring, but I feel is more lack of confidence.

If we continue to be disappointing but not League One-bound, I'd advocate keeping Pearson on and perhaps having a little think in the summer about where we are going in 23/24. 

I think one of our biggest problems is the inbalance of our squad we have a number of young, talented but inconsistent, academy lads and older, past their best, players who perform inconsistently with just a handful of players in their prime. 

Championship players in their prime cost a lot of money so being inconsistent is both hugely frustrating and totally normal. 
 

[TBW]

I think I'm now firmly part of the Pearson-Out Brigade after listening to this...

The man has lost it.

https://twitter.com/AdamBakerPR/status/1604451808830787585?s=20&t=QV4TwJRG0k-Ye_duEw_nEg

 

[redkev]

I really am 50/50 on the Pearson situation, I think he has done well to get us where we are . At most games we are competitive and creating chances with a few decent performances , when he arrived we barley got out of our half and we were just waiting for the opposition to score ( it really was that bad ) unfortunately we don’t seem to have kicked on and if anything have gone backwards from earlier in the season . Now what worries me are the slightly strange selections & press conferences I know he is a different type of character to most but is he starting to lose the dressing room / plot , I’m not saying he is but things need to change and quick 

[italian dave]

2 hours ago, petehinton said:

Simpson, Klose and even King were necessities really and were all very cheap ones. Tanner will definitely get better, as will Wilson, both will make us a better side as the years go on. Naismith a coup. Atkinson will go for big money too imo. 
 

You also have to see what he’s done to Scott, Semenyo, and Conway. He’s getting us £20m+ for those three and how they’ve been developed under him. I think it’s too black and white to look at pure incomings and nothing else. 
 

I’d certainly trust him over previous mangers. It’s just evaluating the situation we’re in once he’s finally given a chance to spend some cash. 

I think you’re being very generous to him Pete - as I know you are! 

Simpson may have been a necessity, but was such a poor choice that I just can’t believe there weren’t other, less disastrous, quick options out there.

Klose, yes, last season, but not a necessity this. He chose to offer a longer contract in the summer when there must have been other options.

King, agree, but why continue shoe-horning him into the side two years later?

Scott would have prospered under pretty much any manager. Semenyo I think the jury is currently out. Conway I’d argue has as much to do with Wells as with Pearson.

And as for Tanner, Wilson and Atkinson, they’ll only get better and go for big money if they get games, and ideally games in a reasonably successful side. 

Edit (after listening to the clip posted above these posts): when he has the chance to spend some cash, what’s to say he’ll do better than his biggest money signing to date - and listen above to what he’s saying about that signing himself. I hope you’re right…but I’m worried.

Edited December 18, 2022 by italian dave

[Bris Red]

10 minutes ago, TBW said:

I think I'm now firmly part of the Pearson-Out Brigade after listening to this...

The man has lost it.

https://twitter.com/AdamBakerPR/status/1604451808830787585?s=20&t=QV4TwJRG0k-Ye_duEw_nEg

 

Yeah he comes across as a bit of a petulant bellend in that interview to be honest, really is no need to publicly do that to Atkinson irrespective of what the bloke has done. 
You can guarantee that interview would have been very unpopular amongst the dressing room if/when the other players listen to it.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

1 minute ago, Bris Red said:

You can guarantee that interview would have been very unpopular amongst the dressing room if/when the other players listen to it.

Not sure it can be guaranteed? Maybe others in the squad are hacked off with Atkinson? Not sure we know. 

[redkev]

3 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

I thought we looked very good & fully in control for most of the first half. 

After they equalised, we looked clueless, shapeless and had no plan whatsoever.

I agree once the game settled down after 20 mins when we weren’t that good but stoke done nothing either by the way , the next 15-20 mins we could easily have been 3-0 up and it’s game over , but I have banged on a n other posts we inexplicably took our foot off the gas and seem to relax and become all complacent up to the half time whistle and sleep walk to a nice half time cuppa , keep that 1-0 at half time and I can’t see us losing that game . 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

5 minutes ago, italian dave said:

I think you’re being very generous to him Pete - as I know you are! 

Simpson may have been a necessity, but was such a poor choice that I just can’t believe there weren’t other, less disastrous, quick options out there.

Klose, yes, last season, but not a necessity this. He chose to offer a longer contract in the summer when there must have been other options.

King, agree, but why continue shoe-horning him into the side two years later?

Scott would have prospered under pretty much any manager. Semenyo I think the jury is currently out. Conway I’d argue has as much to do with Wells as with Pearson.

And as for Tanner, Wilson and Atkinson, they’ll only get better and go for big money if they get games, and ideally games in a reasonably successful side. 

Risk on both sides of the argument of confirmation bias. For those wanting NP gone, everything bad is his fault, everything good due to someone/something else, for those wanting him to stay, the opposite. Think most likely that the answer is somewhere in between. 

[Slippin cider]

4 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

Yeah he comes across as a bit of a petulant bellend in that interview to be honest, really is no need to publicly do that to Atkinson irrespective of what the bloke has done. 
You can guarantee that interview would have been very unpopular amongst the dressing room if/when the other players listen to it.

100% agree ….does it not come down to HIM and the coaches?! …sorry but he really did come across as a ***** in that interview 

[italian dave]

3 minutes ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Risk on both sides of the argument of confirmation bias. For those wanting NP gone, everything bad is his fault, everything good due to someone/something else, for those wanting him to stay, the opposite. Think most likely that the answer is somewhere in between. 

Fair comment, but just to be clear, I don’t want Pearson gone, I want him to succeed. 

The other issue is that none of us know what goes on behind the scenes. Is he constantly falling out with players and then publicly humiliating them (Pring, Massengo, Atkinson) or are there Tomlin type issue at play? 

One thing I will look forward to in a decade or so is some of @petehinton’s ‘cider with’ on OSIB with some of the current players! 

[TBW]

10 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

Yeah he comes across as a bit of a petulant bellend in that interview to be honest, really is no need to publicly do that to Atkinson irrespective of what the bloke has done. 
You can guarantee that interview would have been very unpopular amongst the dressing room if/when the other players listen to it.

If you're going to throw players under the bus that publicly then you have to back it up with either what they've done or results. He is providing neither.

[Hazelboy]

2 hours ago, petehinton said:

Simpson, Klose and even King were necessities really and were all very cheap ones. Tanner will definitely get better, as will Wilson, both will make us a better side as the years go on. Naismith a coup. Atkinson will go for big money too imo. 
 

You also have to see what he’s done to Scott, Semenyo, and Conway. He’s getting us £20m+ for those three and how they’ve been developed under him. I think it’s too black and white to look at pure incomings and nothing else. 
 

I’d certainly trust him over previous mangers. It’s just evaluating the situation we’re in once he’s finally given a chance to spend some cash. 

But his history of signings suggests you’d be wrong to do so, there is no proof that he can recruit reliably.

He has done well with Conway, Scott & Semenyo, however the latter 2 would be in any managers team! I’d agree Conway has been developed well by Pearson and may not have got a chance under somebody else.

He did stabilise the complete mess LJ/ Holden made to a point, however the first half season was by luck rather than good management.  We’re currently sleep walking towards relegation, his interview in the week saying the aim is get into the top half and push on from there, Tinnion on 3 peeps last week saying he believes the clubs ‘so close to achieving its goal’ All very alarming that they genuinely think they aren’t in a relegation battle, whereas the results suggest very differently! 

Regularly belittling players in press conferences, consistently rude to journalists, several players playing poorly out of position whilst players who play there sit in the stands and results becoming increasingly poor, it’s not difficult to understand why people have had enough! 

[Wanderingred]

I’m so fed up of supporting this steaming turd of a football club. I don’t think changing the manager yet again is going to change anything is it ?

[lenred]

4 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

I’m so fed up of supporting this steaming turd of a football club. I don’t think changing the manager yet again is going to change anything is it ?

It certainly feels like some kind of sentence a lot of the time.   City and England - what did I do wrong in a past life!

Edited December 18, 2022 by lenred

[BasSavage88]

I'm enjoying this thread.

 

[RedRock]

Lummydaze, I was expecting a right car-crash of an interview given the comments. There are some right sensitive little petals amongst us aren’t there.

Don’t see anything other than a manager answering the questions in a diplomatic, controlled, measured way, despite clearly being livid with his players. Fair play I say. I hope he takes his uncontrolled anger fully out on our under-performers and don’t carers.

We HAVE to change our DNA. We’ve been way too soft for decades. 
 

The players really put the effort in for Scotty and his 25th didn’t they?  Do they care? 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by RedRock

[redkev]

1 minute ago, RedRock said:

Lummydaze, I was expecting a right car-crash of an interview given the comments. There are some right sensitive little petals amongst us aren’t there.

Don’t see anything other than a manager answering the questions in a diplomatic, controlled, measured way, despite clearly being livid with his players. Fair play I say. I hope he takes his uncontrolled anger fully out on our under-performers and don’t carers.

We HAVE to change our DNA. We’ve been way too soft for decades. 
 

The players really put the effort to put on a display for Scotty and his 25th didn’t they?  Do they care? 

 

I’m in your camp regarding the players , I do think sometimes his press conferences are rather bizarre, as for the players I really believe we need a couple of Roy Keane type characters in the squad not just physicallity but mentally , someone who demands high standards on and off the pitch Ben when training .

I read somewhere that when Rio joined utd his first training session after 3 backward / sideway passes Keane screamed at him literally your at Manchester utd now we don’t fanny about here we go forward , Rio said that was what Keane was like all the time demanding more all the time and he said it made Uniteds players drive on more and more .

city really need that , we have no leadership or winners in our squad we seem to be happy with mediocrity 

[pillred]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

We don't live in the relegation zone yet, but we're in its suburbs. I think if we moved into that spot in January, the board will think enough-is-enough. Other teams with financial restraints are performing better and to-an-extent, a lot of our losses this season do not come from a lack of quality: They seem to come from poor coaching of the basics, poor selections, unhelpful substitutions and a sort-of-undefinable lack of oomph that some interpret as lack of caring, but I feel is more lack of confidence.

If we continue to be disappointing but not League One-bound, I'd advocate keeping Pearson on and perhaps having a little think in the summer about where we are going in 23/24. 

Apart from your reluctance to let Pearson go there is not a lot else wrong with this post sadly, personally I can see no reason to delay the inevitable and get rid now and let someone else have a go, who? well that's the 64 thousand dollar question. 

[pillred]

18 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Lummydaze, I was expecting a right car-crash of an interview given the comments. There are some right sensitive little petals amongst us aren’t there.

Don’t see anything other than a manager answering the questions in a diplomatic, controlled, measured way, despite clearly being livid with his players. Fair play I say. I hope he takes his uncontrolled anger fully out on our under-performers and don’t carers.

We HAVE to change our DNA. We’ve been way too soft for decades. 
 

The players really put the effort in for Scotty and his 25th didn’t they?  Do they care? 

 

He has been at the club for nearly two years, personally I see no improvement in either their desire, organisation, or defensive capability, do you?