Alessandro Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) Watching highlights: 1) It's pen for me, goes through back of Nahki and made no contact with the ball with his left foot: 2) Not scientific but if Bell is offside, it's very close but probably off, perhaps even just his upper body: Edited January 22, 2023 by Alessandro 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1t_ref_again Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 Think refs are constantly trying to avoid making the big decisions, as awarding penalties etc tend to be scrutinised and shown on TV more than ones not given. The foul on NW for the pen he had been giving much less all day to Blackburn, where the slightest little graze of a shirt from behind meant they could chuck themselves to the floor in amatuer dramatics style, but thats easy when its in the middle of the pitch and quickly forgotten Not a pen shout but take Wells yesterday, given a foul against him in the 1st half when the defender made a mess of it and he would have been away on goal, easier just to blow up and give a free kick to the defending team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 3 hours ago, Bobbie said: Who would be our penalty taker? It’s been that long, I have no clue? Wells? My guess would be Naismith 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tin Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Antman said: where are you seeing it? the Sky Sports highlights are so short as to be meaningless. I also wanted to see Bells offside. ta. Saw both incidents plus a short analysis on the Football League highlights on ITV4 this morning. Should be on ITV player if you want to catch up. Sam Parkin thought it was a nailed-on pen. Edited January 22, 2023 by tin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antman Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 watching the reply of the flicked header (wells) it's interesting to see the BB player run into Scott? in the aftermath, yet the Ref blows for a foul. The BB player then goes to ground 10 feet further forward. the Ref indicating it was a head injury, but didn't bring the trainers on. a small detail in the game, but typified the poor refereeing in the game. as others have said, he was massively tolerant of the BB players grabbing and pushing, and going to ground. we are all a bit hyper sensitive to Pen decisions ATM, but as has been said, if he did that on the field elsewhere it would have been a freekick - he played right through the man. The offside against Bell is so tight - the 4th defender along was probably hidden to the lino's view. 1 minute ago, tin said: Saw both incidents plus a short analysis on the Football League highlights on ITV4 this morning. Should be on ITV player if you want to catch up. Sam Parkin thought it was a nailed-on pen. the BCFC youtube highlights are now also up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southport Red Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 56 minutes ago, Alessandro said: Watching highlights: 1) It's pen for me, goes through back of Nahki and made no contact with the ball with his left foot: 2) Not scientific but if Bell is offside, it's very close but probably off, perhaps even just his upper body: Up until now, I had been sure that Bell was (just) offside. But from this photo it looks like the defender at the top of the picture, is playing him on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 I don't get the discussion about Bell being offside, his head and chest are clearly ahead of the defenders, even on the far side. The rule of offside counts for any part of the body that can be used to score a goal therefore it is offside and a good call. The penalty on the other hand is a tackle from behind, taking out the player and dangerous too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1t_ref_again Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 32 minutes ago, Spike said: I don't get the discussion about Bell being offside, his head and chest are clearly ahead of the defenders, even on the far side. The rule of offside counts for any part of the body that can be used to score a goal therefore it is offside and a good call. The penalty on the other hand is a tackle from behind, taking out the player and dangerous too. Not sure how you can say clearly, I have studied it and as the photo is not along the line you just cannot tell 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 31 minutes ago, Spike said: I don't get the discussion about Bell being offside, his head and chest are clearly ahead of the defenders, even on the far side. The rule of offside counts for any part of the body that can be used to score a goal therefore it is offside and a good call. The penalty on the other hand is a tackle from behind, taking out the player and dangerous too. I suspect you're right but i'm not sure it's that clear. His head is looking back, his body is leaning and his run was angled - so although i'm sure it's offside, I think it would be closer on VAR than what we thought in real time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Big C said: My guess would be Naismith He would hit the goalkeeper! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 11 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said: Not sure how you can say clearly, I have studied it and as the photo is not along the line you just cannot tell One of those I initially thought ‘well offside’. Looking at that image, as best you can tell feet are level, they would draw VAR lines and maybe show his ‘lean’ is taking him offside. Much closer than I thought. One of those that looks more offside in real time because of the direction players are moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, downendcity said: Also you just know that had the challenge on Wells (that led to the sending off) happened inside the penalty area, then the referee would not have blown for a foul, let alone yellow carded the defender! Conversely, had the "penalty" shout challenge on Wells taken place anywhere else on the pitch the ref would have blown for a foul without any hesitation. Minimal football contact.my arse! P.S. If, by some miracle, we gained promotion to the premier league, you just know that would be the season they withdrew VAR from use! Edited January 22, 2023 by downendcity 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, downendcity said: Conversely, had the "penalty" shout challenge on Wells taken place anywhere else on the pitch the ref would have blown for a foul without any hesitation. Minimal football contact.my arse! P.S. If, by some miracle, we gained promotion to the premier league, you just know that would be the season they withdrew VAR from use! Parachute Payments would also end in their current form the year we go up! Can just see it now- at the same time as VAR being withdrawn. Guaranteed. Edited January 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 10 minutes ago, cityexile said: One of those I initially thought ‘well offside’. Looking at that image, as best you can tell feet are level, they would draw VAR lines and maybe show his ‘lean’ is taking him offside. Much closer than I thought. One of those that looks more offside in real time because of the direction players are moving. Also Bell is quick as greased weasel shit and is already well into his run when the pass comes (a split second late) from Naismith vs a defender the other side of the pitch who is stood still and upright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) Just found a clip of Sunderland penalty v Middlesbrough today. Compare and contrast to some of the ones we've had turned down- compared to some of our rejected claims this looks quite soft. In fact it's fairly soft in its own right, contact doesn't automatically equal foul but compare and contrast to a few of ours. Edited January 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 Just found this brilliant thread… I’d argue 80% of those are stonewallers… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 8 minutes ago, Lew-T said: Just found this brilliant thread… I’d argue 80% of those are stonewallers… ...and the rest you've seen given plenty of times - especially at Old Trafford, Anfield etc........ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Robin Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) Great job: we should disseminate that overview in every football site and here too The more videos and stats I see, the more I'm convinced that it's cheating. Edited January 22, 2023 by Dan Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderJar Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Southport Red said: Up until now, I had been sure that Bell was (just) offside. But from this photo it looks like the defender at the top of the picture, is playing him on. You could also take it back a frame when the initial contact with the ball is made. This is where VAR is so contentious for me. You are dealing with millimetres and milliseconds and the margin for error is huge in comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugarwray Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 58 minutes ago, Lew-T said: Just found this brilliant thread… I’d argue 80% of those are stonewallers… On average, depending on the source, there are 0.21 to 0.28 penalties per game. Assuming an even distribution that should mean 0.105 to 0.14 penalties per team per match. At least one per team every 10 games! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said: Not sure how you can say clearly, I have studied it and as the photo is not along the line you just cannot tell I design in isographic projection so deal with angles and visuals all day most days so I suppose I have an eye for it by now and saying "clearly" is probably a bad wording I'll concede but I could see it. With this angle you need to find the right line, seeing some of the lines drawn makes it look onside but that's because they are not taking the verticals and depth perception that change the angles into consideration. Here it is when you add those things into the drawing to get a more precise visual visually it looks minimal but that's around half a foot offside and when the play was in motion the movement made it look larger. Edited January 22, 2023 by Spike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) Not City or Championship related but Man City got one today. Once again, compare and contrast. Dunno if it was VAR assisted however. Edited January 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyAB Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Lew-T said: Just found this brilliant thread… I’d argue 80% of those are stonewallers… Scandalous!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) If we want to delve into th3 deeper stats... Our 2nd last penalty was awarded on 23rd January 2021 at Millwall in the FA Cup during Covid. 1 in 729 days and counting. If it is League only? The 2nd last League one was awarded on 31st October 2020 at home to Norwich during Covid. 1 in the League in 813 days and counting. Edited January 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 4 hours ago, Alessandro said: Watching highlights: 1) It's pen for me, goes through back of Nahki and made no contact with the ball with his left foot: 2) Not scientific but if Bell is offside, it's very close but probably off, perhaps even just his upper body: 2) it’s not scientific to use lines from feet. 3 hours ago, Spike said: I don't get the discussion about Bell being offside, his head and chest are clearly ahead of the defenders, even on the far side. The rule of offside counts for any part of the body that can be used to score a goal therefore it is offside and a good call. The penalty on the other hand is a tackle from behind, taking out the player and dangerous too. Exactly, it’s the furthest forward point of his body that is able to be used in the act of goalscoring. If his hand was ahead of the defender but the rest of his arm / body was behind it would be onside because you can’t score with your hand. A defenders hand can be used as a goal can be deflected off of a hand. Bell’s body is ahead of his feet, so the line must be drawn vertically down…and therefore he is just ahead of the RB marking Wells. Offside! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, Davefevs said: 2) it’s not scientific to use lines from feet. Exactly, it’s the furthest forward point of his body that is able to be used in the act of goalscoring. If his hand was ahead of the defender but the rest of his arm / body was behind it would be onside because you can’t score with your hand. A defenders hand can be used as a goal can be deflected off of a hand. Bell’s body is ahead of his feet, so the line must be drawn vertically down…and therefore he is just ahead of the RB marking Wells. Offside! I typed similar out , but couldn't get the lines right when I did it, so gave up. I'll just have to make do with ..... what he said 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roe Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Lew-T said: Just found this brilliant thread… I’d argue 80% of those are stonewallers… I feel like we're going down far too easily on most of those shouts but the fact that 0 of them were given is pretty odd. There's at least 2 or 3 that are probably more likely to be given than not and then even the minimal shouts are probably at a good 10% chance each at least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 15 minutes ago, Roe said: I feel like we're going down far too easily on most of those shouts but the fact that 0 of them were given is pretty odd. There's at least 2 or 3 that are probably more likely to be given than not and then even the minimal shouts are probably at a good 10% chance each at least That’s the point for me. Hard to say that they are ‘stonewall’ but they are all (and more) in the ‘sometimes you get them sometimes you don’t’ category……except that when it’s Bristol City you never, ever, get them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 Just now, italian dave said: That’s the point for me. Hard to say that they are ‘stonewall’ but they are all (and more) in the ‘sometimes you get them sometimes you don’t’ category……except that when it’s Bristol City you never, ever, get them. Semenyos the other week blatent. Atkinson at Hull blatent. A few others not on that thread blatent Many others totally subjective allowing some weird bias against our club to come into play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted January 22, 2023 Report Share Posted January 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said: Semenyos the other week blatent. Atkinson at Hull blatent. A few others not on that thread blatent Many others totally subjective allowing some weird bias against our club to come into play That was happening just about every corner, so blatant & so obvious the Ref couldn't have missed it every time. Even when we scored Atkinson was being grappled with. The one that gets me is the one on Scott, Reading? How it isn't given I don't know. I'd like to think that the Referees are so caught up in the game, they aren't thinking about being the first one to give us a Pen since from when Pierluigi Collina was a boy. I think it genuinely is because they are shit Refs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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