Millwall away match thread

[Rob k]

55 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

I dropped out around 60 mins or so because a mate turned up.find it hard to disagree with ths assessment Joe, and I'm wondering if people were watching the same game. 

It was better, but so so turgid and depressing to watch, despite of us being better. As you rightly mention the same old still exists and Max's Save towards end of 1st half iirc and Millwall not turning up are not the saving graces to show any corner has been turned.

We're 3 wins in 17 in the league ,  goals are drying up, scoring something like 8 in the last 10 in the league and 1in 3 games since Rotherham. Tommy's goals have dried up scoring only 2 in 17 according to Soccerbase.https://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=134873

A better defensive performance with players in the right position is welcome as is the point and a clean sheet, however it doesn't mask our very clear and continuing problems.

The form table is tight with six points covering 8th to 24th https://thefishy.co.uk/formtable.php?table=2

It's not the up turn that people seem to think it is. That agent stuff is just weird too.

 

You missed a 1/3 of the game and have been anti NP from the beginning so will take all this with a pinch of salt anyway. 
We were solid last night whilst playing much better and should have had 3pts comfortably. The agent stuff was weird though - will agree with you there 

[1960maaan]

4 hours ago, Partridge is a robin said:

Didn'tsee game, did we even defend well ??

We did pretty well against a confident, strong physical side. They created very little and the best effort was blocked by Atkinson (the one that hit the bar).  The Vyner / Atkinson / Naismith tweak seemed to work well, I hope he sticks with it. Atkinson can be the no nonsense CB in the middle and the other 2 can play a bit, it worked. Pring was good and although Tanner obviously doesn't carry that threat going forward that any of the other might, I thought we seemed better balanced and more solid.  Never once did we allow them to bully us and never really got caught on the ball, yet we did manage to carry and pass the ball a fair bit. We did have to go longer at times, and some was pretty aimless I must admit, there was a plan to hit the space behind the FB/WB position, the same as we did at Rotherham. 

[mozo]

2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Goals for might have reduced (because shots and shots on target have reduced) but so have goals conceded. We don't need to fret about the defence at this stage.

Using the arbitrary yet popular ten game block measurement system goals for have gone down to 8 in the past ten versus 15 in the preceding 10. We've failed to score in 4 of the last 10 versus 2 in the preceding. xG for has dropped a little, from 1.2 to 1.1. That's really just an indication of how our clinical strikers were managing to outperform our creative ability early on in the season.

At our own end we've conceded 10 in 10, against 15 in the preceding 10 matches. We've kept 2 clean sheets, just as we did in the preceding 10 games. xG against has dropped from 1.6 to 1.2. which indicates a big improvement in our ability to stop the shot.

So I'm honestly not particularly worried about the defence. What we need is a return to the finishing we saw early in the season. 

Last night's a great example of that. We missed a couple of very good chances that would they go in would see us leave the Den with 3 points rather than 1. Earlier in the season those go in, and we win.

That finishing will come back. We're still just about creating enough. 

After the Stoke and West Brom games we definitely need to fret about the defence!

I though we were very lucky not to concede last night. If Atkinson's hip was slightly less bony we'd be 1-0 down.

But yeah our composure un the final third has fallen off a cliff. Either the cross or the shot is consistently miscalculated and that's a key difference between current form and earlier in the season when we were clinical.

[Northern Red]

Definitely get the sense from various threads that a draw like last night's is the absolutely perfect result for people to be able to make the outcome fit whatever conclusions they'd already formed before a ball was kicked.

[lenred]

3 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Definitely get the sense from various threads that a draw like last night's is the absolutely perfect result for people to be able to make the outcome fit whatever conclusions they'd already formed before a ball was kicked.

Yep. Obviously a little more restrained than the meltdown that would’ve ensued had we lost, but plenty still banging their NP out drums, despite us getting an away draw at a side that would’ve gone 4th if they had won.  Only Millwall though isn’t it - a side we should beat every time apparently because we are the mighty Bristol City! 

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Definitely get the sense from various threads that a draw like last night's is the absolutely perfect result for people to be able to make the outcome fit whatever conclusions they'd already formed before a ball was kicked.

City get a good point away from home against a top half side, the type of side that we typically struggle against (cue Rowett’s press conferences), but it’s more about Millwall being crap than us having a good game plan and stifling their threats whikst eking out a couple of good opportunities that might’ve won us the game!!

Pre-game it was also - I’d be delighted to get a point, can see a 4-0 defeat here, I’ll take a 0-0.

So we matched most people’s hope, and bettered some.

I’d say we ought to be reflecting with a bit of positivity this morning.

[TDarwall]

It's worth remembering that for any team, a poor run of results rarely ends with a champagne performance & a convincing win. If we have to eke out results with resilient performances for a bit, I'm fine with that. I have no concerns about us scoring, but keeping a few more clean sheets will make a huge difference.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kolsch]

Satisfactory point overall. They had a couple of good chances and we did too. 
 

Why it’s taken NP to play that team for so long I’ll never know. We looked far more balanced. On another night we could have easily won that.

Hopefully same team again on NYD.

[RUSSEL85]

Play like that at Coventry and we will come away with something, play like that rest of the season and a comfortable 14th place finish. I’m aware it’s not as simple as that, what we need is a string of consistent performances which has proven tricky but hopefully we can take encouragement from a batting performance last night.

[Kolsch]

1 minute ago, RUSSEL85 said:

Play like that at Coventry and we will come away with something, play like that rest of the season and a comfortable 14th place finish. I’m aware it’s not as simple as that, what we need is a string of consistent performances which has proven tricky but hopefully we can take encouragement from a batting performance last night.

Exactly. Sometimes we have to just grind out the points and last night we did that.

I’m still not convinced though. Let’s see what Sunday brings.

[ExiledAjax]

26 minutes ago, mozo said:

After the Stoke and West Brom games we definitely need to fret about the defence!

I though we were very lucky not to concede last night. If Atkinson's hip was slightly less bony we'd be 1-0 down.

But yeah our composure un the final third has fallen off a cliff. Either the cross or the shot is consistently miscalculated and that's a key difference between current form and earlier in the season when we were clinical.

You give a fair example of individual games and incidents. However, the post I responded to was discussing broader 10 or 17 game trends.

With that in mind I just wanted to point out that although goals scored have dropped, so have goals conceded. You shouldn't discuss one without the other. 

Individual moments are a different matter really. If looking at likelihoods and overall league performances in the context of a 46 game season, then it's more relevant to look at broad trends. In that regard (looking at the 10 game averages for goals conceded, shots against, shots on target against and xG against) the defence is performing at the best level it has all season.

[Jerseybean]

KN post match https://t.co/3xNfH3JbQg

[pongo88]

13 hours ago, Bizyer said:

Indeed

 

 

13 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

On target = between the posts and under the cross bar.

I always find it interesting how shots on target are calculated. The shot that Atkinson deflected onto the bar was definitely on target before it hit him, yet it just counts as a blocked shot. If the same shot had been saved on the line by O’Leary it would have been a shot on target 

[TheReds]

12 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Sorry I didn’t realise it was about betting. I was just saying they had a shot on target 

It wasn't, but I'd expect the stats used are using the same rules (betting companies use Opta). What was also quoted from the FA regarding shots on target on here are pretty much what I posted. Therefore as far as stats and the rules go, Millwall never had a shot on target, which is why the BBC, Livescore, Flashscore and Sky etc etc also say they never had one on target.

[sh1t_ref_again]

I thought we were worth more than the draw, you only have to go and read Millwall's fans forum, where the overwhelming opinion is they were lucky to get away with a point

[In the Net]

10 hours ago, In the Net said:

Any idea why he gave his shirt to some Millwall fans at the end?

I can answer my own question - there were a group of tourists there, seems Millwall get them, same as the premier league London Clubs do.  Germans, or more probably Austrians I think. 

[ExiledAjax]

10 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Don't share any of that optimism sadly

It's not really optimism or pessimism though. It's just pointing out that looking at the figures over a range of games shows us that it's the attack that's underperforming rather than the defence. The defence is fine. Not fantastic, and not at the level required to finish high up the table, but it's fine, satisfactory, 5 out of 10, ok, decent, mediocre. It'll get us through.

Here's some true optimism. We're going to be fine. We're not getting relegated. Those teams that are going down are already in the bottom 4. The new CEO will bring the wage structure back in line after the final round of big contracts end in the summer. We'll finish in the top ten next season and from there who knows.

[TheReds]

15 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

I have? Really. News to me

Yes,

There are multiple posts of yours on here. Many were brought up previously which you then said you forgot you posted them.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Goals for might have reduced (because shots and shots on target have reduced) but so have goals conceded. We don't need to fret about the defence at this stage.

Using the arbitrary yet popular ten game block measurement system goals for have gone down to 8 in the past ten versus 15 in the preceding 10. We've failed to score in 4 of the last 10 versus 2 in the preceding. xG for has dropped a little, from 1.2 to 1.1. That's really just an indication of how our clinical strikers were managing to outperform our creative ability early on in the season.

At our own end we've conceded 10 in 10, against 15 in the preceding 10 matches. We've kept 2 clean sheets, just as we did in the preceding 10 games. xG against has dropped from 1.6 to 1.2. which indicates a big improvement in our ability to stop the shot.

So I'm honestly not particularly worried about the defence. What we need is a return to the finishing we saw early in the season. 

Last night's a great example of that. We missed a couple of very good chances that would they go in would see us leave the Den with 3 points rather than 1. Earlier in the season those go in, and we win.

That finishing will come back. We're still just about creating enough. 

 

2 hours ago, mozo said:

After the Stoke and West Brom games we definitely need to fret about the defence!

I though we were very lucky not to concede last night. If Atkinson's hip was slightly less bony we'd be 1-0 down.

But yeah our composure un the final third has fallen off a cliff. Either the cross or the shot is consistently miscalculated and that's a key difference between current form and earlier in the season when we were clinical.

 

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

You give a fair example of individual games and incidents. However, the post I responded to was discussing broader 10 or 17 game trends.

With that in mind I just wanted to point out that although goals scored have dropped, so have goals conceded. You shouldn't discuss one without the other. 

Individual moments are a different matter really. If looking at likelihoods and overall league performances in the context of a 46 game season, then it's more relevant to look at broad trends. In that regard (looking at the 10 game averages for goals conceded, shots against, shots on target against and xG against) the defence is performing at the best level it has all season.

There is also a distinct possibility indeed I believe it to be likely that we were outperforming our baseline earlier in the season, let alone the potential for a big bang then inconsistency of a young player like Conway.

I calculated in our first 10 League games our strikers scored 16 goals between then and there was a conversion rate of non penalty goals as we don't get penalties, and it was around 22 pct. I can't remember the exact amount.

That is a truly elite level, especially when you consider that some of these will have been subs, you are not going to sustain that over months. Now it is lower than it should be and as a team in fact, think we scored 1 goal from 45-50 shots at home which is terrible, even though there were several woodwork strikes. The defence however is performing better in terms of chances we allow- thought WBA goals were well worked tbh but the goals by Stoke were very, very soft.

Might have even quicker than 16 in 10, wouls have to go back and calculate better but the conversion rate was fairly stunning what with a lack of penalties.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

The other side’s view:

 

[Numero Uno]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

City get a good point away from home against a top half side, the type of side that we typically struggle against (cue Rowett’s press conferences), but it’s more about Millwall being crap than us having a good game plan and stifling their threats whikst eking out a couple of good opportunities that might’ve won us the game!!

Pre-game it was also - I’d be delighted to get a point, can see a 4-0 defeat here, I’ll take a 0-0.

So we matched most people’s hope, and bettered some.

I’d say we ought to be reflecting with a bit of positivity this morning.

We were so second best on Boxing Day that I would have 100% taken a point beforehand if it was offered without having to actually play the game. I thought Millwall would bully us and comfortably beat us tbh. So for me last night was definitely an upturn over two home performances where we turned up for 15 minutes in one and 10 minutes in the other.

The key for me is for the team to display some DEFENSIVE consistency which would allow us to put enough of a run together to get safe in a comfortable time frame. If you can tough it out at Millwall when the Manager is under fire from some (including Max who I would have benched yesterday) then there is no excuse for the goals we have been gifting teams for fun lately.

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

City get a good point away from home against a top half side, the type of side that we typically struggle against (cue Rowett’s press conferences), but it’s more about Millwall being crap than us having a good game plan and stifling their threats whikst eking out a couple of good opportunities that might’ve won us the game!!

Pre-game it was also - I’d be delighted to get a point, can see a 4-0 defeat here, I’ll take a 0-0.

So we matched most people’s hope, and bettered some.

I’d say we ought to be reflecting with a bit of positivity this morning.

I thought it was a great point last night and an encouraging performance. 

Millwall is never easy for us to go to, especially for a midweek game in December. 

I think the only thing I can only complain about, and it really is scraping the barrel is that we may have been guilty of playing them at their own game rather than imposing our own game on the game. But maybe against these teams you have to play that way. I don't think we did that against them at Ashton Gate. 

Rowett said we were as good as any away team there this season and I think we should take that as a big compliment. We put in a gutsy performance. It wasn't that long ago that we simply couldn't compete in the games against physical teams. We've added that to our armoury. 

Pretty much every club in the Championship would be satisfied with a point away at Millwall. 

I was very positive after the result last night but the huge amount of negative comments has made me question why we appear to have an entitlement to win away at play off chasing Millwall? I suspect it probably has something to do with the noise going around certain sections of our fan base. 

[Numero Uno]

26 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I thought it was a great point last night and an encouraging performance. 

Millwall is never easy for us to go to, especially for a midweek game in December. 

I think the only thing I can only complain about, and it really is scraping the barrel is that we may have been guilty of playing them at their own game rather than imposing our own game on the game. But maybe against these teams you have to play that way. I don't think we did that against them at Ashton Gate. 

Rowett said we were as good as any away team there this season and I think we should take that as a big compliment. We put in a gutsy performance. It wasn't that long ago that we simply couldn't compete in the games against physical teams. We've added that to our armoury. 

Pretty much every club in the Championship would be satisfied with a point away at Millwall. 

I was very positive after the result last night but the huge amount of negative comments has made me question why we appear to have an entitlement to win away at play off chasing Millwall? I suspect it probably has something to do with the noise going around certain sections of our fan base. 

The only thing we really got wrong last night was missing a sitter to take all three points. Otherwise we got it right in a game I thought we would get outfought in and lose with a whimper. What we now need to see is the same level of aggression, concentration and commitment in all games. What we can’t be doing is chucking in rotten performances like the Stoke home match every three or four games. West Brom on reflection we got beat by a better side who are likely to get to the Play Offs after a terrible start but Stoke was getting beat by a very ordinary side who didn’t have to do anything of note to beat us. If that changes we’ll pick up the points we need.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Numero Uno

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

The only thing we really got wrong last night was missing a sitter to take all three points. Otherwise we got it right in a game I thought we would get outfought in and lose with a whimper. What we now need to see is the same level of aggression, concentration and commitment in all games. What we can’t be doing is chucking in rotten performances like the Stoke home match every three or four games. West Brom on reflection we got beat by a better side who are likely to get to the Play Offs after a terrible start but Stoke was getting beat by a very ordinary side who didn’t have to do anything of note to beat us. If that changes we’ll pick up the points we need.

I think people need to just have a bit of patience and we'll see continued improvements. 

It's not as easy as just saying to the players "go out and be aggressive tonight" especially when we don't really have aggressive players. It's about knowing when to be aggressive, being clever about it etc etc. It all ties into that culture that is much spoken about. 

I think with a largely inexperienced team that unfortunately inconsistent results/performances will happen. 

WBA game I wasn't overly bothered by. Better team and better than us on the day. The goals were preventable tho. 

The Stoke game I agree was rotten. It was a poor game but we were the better team. It was a game that was there for the taking yet we walked away with a defeat and that annoyed me, still does. 

The Watford game I really enjoyed. Both fans and the players were up for it. 

[BrizzleRed]

An encouraging view from the Millwall forum and great to see someone saying that about our team.
 

“Sometimes you can only play as well as your opponents allow you to.
Watford invited us in and lay down while we smacked their arses and cried about how the big boys took their ball away.
Bristol had enough guts and fight to stop us doing that, and could easily have won tonight. Be grateful for a point and move on.”

 

 It doesn’t have to be about us playing great football, it means just as much knowing our players are up for a battle.  

Well done lads

[Rocking Red Cyril]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The other side’s view:

 

I can not seem to find vid clip of NP"s after match comments. Could some one please put me out of my misery. 

Please

[Frenchay Red]

32 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

I can not seem to find vid clip of NP"s after match comments. Could some one please put me out of my misery. 

Please

There's this

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/pearson-reflects-on-draw-at-the-den/

Any good?

As a certain poster might say it's on the official site

Edited December 30, 2022 by Frenchay Red

[Vidal]

I thought it was a pretty good away performance in that we created the better chances and played the better football, especially when our central players drifted out wide creating the overload and the crosses coming in. Mill wall goalkeeper was man of the match.

[Davefevs]

That’s it

[spudski]

What irks me about the post match interview is the assumption that many fans were indifferent after the WBA result.

It's such a reflection on how society works these days. 

A vocal minority at ground and social media become magnified. Our of proportion. 

 The balance is out of wack and magnified because of social media.

It's an awful outlet that magnifies minority.