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Rebuild Required - Alex Neil is your man….for Stoke

Davefevs

By Davefevs
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GrahamC

GrahamC

Posted
Posted

Not by any means an anti Pearson comment but honestly think there’s been occasions when we have had a vacancy & he’d have been interested.

His football is pretty ugly on occasion but he certainly knows how to get the most out of what he has & although Stoke have actually been a bigger basket case than us (spending even more to get no further forward) you’d think he’ll eventually do it.

Hilarious that they put subtitles up on it, though, he’s not THAT difficult to understand..

  • Like 1
Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
  • Author
Posted
8 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

It's the time element that stands out and does have huge similarities with us. Perhaps one of the legacies of Covid at this level and below will be a move away from short termism and more periods where managers and coaches are given significant amount of time to implement a plan agreed by the board at the outset.

I'd be all for that. It's all I've ever wanted for us to do and it feels like, despite impatience from a vocal minority of our support, that the club wants to see the whole project through with Pearson. Hope so. 

It’s pretty much why I posted it.

Apart from his dour personality when speaking, he pretty much was as blunt as Nige has been, and I think he’d be saying these things had he come to us for example.

  • Like 1
joe jordans teeth

joe jordans teeth

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Not by any means an anti Pearson comment but honestly think there’s been occasions when we have had a vacancy & he’d have been interested.

His football is pretty ugly on occasion but he certainly knows how to get the most out of what he has & although Stoke have actually been a bigger basket case than us (spending even more to get no further forward) you’d think he’ll eventually do it.

Hilarious that they put subtitles up on it, though, he’s not THAT difficult to understand..

As would a Warnock would have done 

Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
  • Author
Posted
16 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

@Davefevs it’s all well and good him talking the talk but how are their finances,I’m guessing not as bad as ours 

I think they are right of the boundary like us…they appear to have put more in their Covid allowances than us to ensure they hit the £39m.  But you’ll see them trying to tout players, e.g. Josh Laurent, who only joined 6 months ago.

The fact he arrived on a free, might mean that they can try to move him on at no cost, e.g. no amortisation to impair.  No clubs have nibbled yet.  Sound familiar?

I think he’s laying his cards on the table like Nige, because the situation is a mess.

Had Coates or Lansdown stopped paying the bills I reckon EFL would’ve hit us hard.

  • Thank You 2
And Its Smith

And Its Smith

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, joe jordans teeth said:

@Davefevs it’s all well and good him talking the talk but how are their finances,I’m guessing not as bad as ours 

They’ve spent a fair bit, not recouped a lot, probably pay a bit more than us, don’t have parachute payments and have similar attendances to us.  I would guess their finances and ours are probably very similar 

  • Like 1
Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

They’ve spent a fair bit, not recouped a lot, probably pay a bit more than us, don’t have parachute payments and have similar attendances to us.  I would guess their finances and ours are probably very similar 

They allocated £56m to the Covid losses across 2019-20 and 2020-21 which helps..The fact they habe signed so many PL loans in the last 2 years plus Maja on loan (Bordeaux) and Sawyers (loan WBA), brought Wilmot (Watford) Vrancic on a free post Norwich and Surridge from Bournemouth is different activity to us!

Plus sold and leased back stadium and training ground in 2021, profit £32m! (Impact of born losses and gained averaged due to Covid so consider that £16m).

(I consider the transfer add-back or impairment stuff as for all clubs to be nonsense but it's all subjective).

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
  • Like 2
Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted

I should add for the sake of balance, that Stoke sold Collins for an £11-12m profit last season and whatever they got for Bursik will constitute profit.

One side I veer between different vidws on FFP...on one hand I question them big time, otoh a lot DID leave in summer 2021 and a chunk were legacy contracts, then last Jan Davies sold (signed year 2 of Parachutes), Batth went, Doughty loan and Ince loan out in a swap for Moore for 6 months- the latter 

Delap has also returned to Man City and Etebo was sold at last between summer 2022 and January 2023- so maybe I'm doing Stoke a bit of a disservice but it's hard to say for sure.

  • Like 1
Northern Red

Northern Red

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Job for Michael Duff? Stoke have some good players, could he get a tune out of them? Alex Neil never seems a particularly attack-minded manager, more a don`t-lose one to me.

Eustace is being mentioned. Used to play there as well.

  • Thank You 2
GrahamC

GrahamC

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Nothing manager, nothing club. Can’t see anyone getting it right there. 

Absolute graveyard for managers.

Michael O’Neill incredible first spell with Norn Iron, failed.

Nathan Jones, excellent job at Luton, failed.

Gary Rowett, pretty decent elsewhere, failed.

Alex Neil is a treble promotion winning manager, failed.

The Coates family spend fortunes on high wages & fees & they are the only club I can think of that serially underachieves more than us.

  • Like 8
Bris Red

Bris Red

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Nothing manager, nothing club. Can’t see anyone getting it right there. 

Indeed. I genuinely feel for relegated Prem clubs that if you can't bounce back within the time frame of your parachute payments then it becomes an almost impossible task. 

At least Stokies have a decade of Premier league football to look back on, an Fa cup final and an appearance in Europe. Not bad for a club that is similar size to us in fairness.

  • Like 7
ralphindevon

ralphindevon

Posted
Posted
Just now, GrahamC said:

Absolute graveyard for managers.

Michael O’Neill incredible first spell with Norn Iron, failed.

Nathan Jones, excellent job at Luton, failed.

Gary Rowett, pretty decent elsewhere, failed.

Alex Neil is a treble promotion winning manager, failed.

The Coates family spend fortunes on high wages & fees & they are the only club I can think of that serially underachieves more than us.

We're winning that race on the longevity front..... by a mile

Not long ago they were 10 years at the top

lenred

lenred

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Absolute graveyard for managers.

Michael O’Neill incredible first spell with Norn Iron, failed.

Nathan Jones, excellent job at Luton, failed.

Gary Rowett, pretty decent elsewhere, failed.

Alex Neil is a treble promotion winning manager, failed.

The Coates family spend fortunes on high wages & fees & they are the only club I can think of that serially underachieves more than us.

Yet still spent a very decent amount of time in the Prem compared to us GC! 

GrahamC

GrahamC

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

We're winning that race on the longevity front..... by a mile

Not long ago they were 10 years at the top

They have been in the Championship now since 2018, & they show absolutely no signs of ever getting back there.

Their finishes since;

16th, 15th, 14th, 14th, 16th.

The first three of these were whilst they were getting parachute payments, truly abysmal.

ralphindevon

ralphindevon

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

They have been in the Championship now since 2018, & they show absolutely no signs of ever getting back there.

Their finishes since;

16th, 15th, 14th, 14th, 16th.

The first three of these were whilst they were getting parachute payments, truly abysmal.

Yes, I mentioned in my first post theyve barely moved, very poor 5 seasons. 

But as a City fan with a Stoke supporting wife I've been to an FA cup final, Valencia away in Europe and seen all the big clubs beaten in the league.

Jealous doesn't come close to how I felt at some of those occasions. To think they went up the year we almost did..... 

  • Like 2
Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
Just now, ralphindevon said:

Yes, I mentioned in my first post theyve barely moved, very poor 5 seasons. 

But as a City fan with a Stoke supporting wife I've been to an FA cup final, Valencia away in Europe and seen all the big clubs beaten in the league.

Jealous doesn't come close to how I felt at some of those occasions. To think they went up the year we almost did..... 

Had we been braver in January 2008 well just imagine...

  • Like 4
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BCFCGav

BCFCGav

Posted
Posted

Any of our financially savvy posters know if Stoke are near any FFP troubles? They seem to like to spend and surely can’t be parachute anymore.

Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)

@BCFCGav

I'll give it a go, look forward to others also chipping in.

They had an underlying loss of £29m before Player sales and obviously before FFP and the final Covid bits in 2021-22.

My workings suggest probably not, as the sale of Souttar for £15m (may have sell on clause to subtract), Bursik has assisted a bit, their ridiculous Covid add-backs although the effect of these, Collins £10m and Collins sell-on. Tymon too and presumably the wage bill has fallen.

Their Covid add-backs, some £40-45m of them I have a real real issue with.

Not dissimiar to Everton weighted to the division Covid wise, they likely will be aok to this season, next hmm, 2 years hence hmmmm.

There is a double whammy with their £30m in Implemairmrjt of Player Registrations attributed to Covid..(halved due to Covid adjustments for 2019-20 and 2020-21).

1) This removes it as a cost in the period.

2) Th is removed it as a cost going forward as it is £30m in Book Value to be amortised over x years that should really be accounted for.

Perhaps makes them easier to offload as they no longer need to risk selling below value or to take a regular impairment.

Also they sought to argue £11m in 2020-21 to lost Player Sale profits. Maybe similar another £1-2m in 2021-22.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
  • Thank You 1
tin

tin

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Absolute graveyard for managers.

Michael O’Neill incredible first spell with Norn Iron, failed.

Nathan Jones, excellent job at Luton, failed.

Gary Rowett, pretty decent elsewhere, failed.

Alex Neil is a treble promotion winning manager, failed.

The Coates family spend fortunes on high wages & fees & they are the only club I can think of that serially underachieves more than us.

They’ve had a spell, and a fairly long spell at that, in the PL which is more than we’ve had under the Lansdowns, mind. 

Not saying you’re wrong in your assessment but they’ve had more joy than us (even if that odious shit Pulis was responsible for that!)

  • Like 1
W-S-M Seagull

W-S-M Seagull

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, TheSpaniard said:

 I genuinely think that we have progressed more in 5 games under Manning than Stoke did after 17 months of Alex Neil. Another manager whose stock is falling.

You've made 3 posts on this forum and I must point out that my observations is that all 3 have been in nature, pro Manning. 

Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)

In terms of why Neil left Sunderland, he perhaps didn't agree with their model.

Wanted more control over transfers, probably wanted a bigger budget, more focus on experience etc.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
Markthehorn

Markthehorn

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

In terms of why Neil left Sunderland, he perhaps didn't agree with their model.

Wanted more control over transfers, probably wanted a bigger budget, more focus on experience etc.

Heard he wanted to be nearer his family too .

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, TheSpaniard said:

No it had nothing to do with those things - it is well documented that Sunderland were only willing to offer him a rolling 12 month deal, where as Stoke offered him a 3 year contract.

It is well documented but there was also chatter about transfer disquiet that plus what @Markthehorn said about family.

Though, him going back there feels a non starter IMO.

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Whitchurch

Whitchurch

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, tin said:

They’ve had a spell, and a fairly long spell at that, in the PL which is more than we’ve had under the Lansdowns, mind. 

Not saying you’re wrong in your assessment but they’ve had more joy than us (even if that odious shit Pulis was responsible for that!)

Add an FA cup final and a stint in the Europa league in that time as well!

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Simon bristol

Simon bristol

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Absolute graveyard for managers.

Michael O’Neill incredible first spell with Norn Iron, failed.

Nathan Jones, excellent job at Luton, failed.

Gary Rowett, pretty decent elsewhere, failed.

Alex Neil is a treble promotion winning manager, failed.

The Coates family spend fortunes on high wages & fees & they are the only club I can think of that serially underachieves more than us.

Agree to a point,., but they were in the europa league and established in the premier having gone up in our play off season,,, id swap our last 20 years for theirs!

  • Like 2
GrahamC

GrahamC

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Agree to a point,., but they were in the europa league and established in the premier having gone up in our play off season,,, id swap our last 20 years for theirs!

Of course but since they came down they have totally ****** up having parachute payments.

We never had them to lose and in the last 5 seasons they have finished below us more times than above us.

This season already looks like about avoiding relegation too.

  • Like 2
Markthehorn

Markthehorn

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Of course but since they came down they have totally ****** up having parachute payments.

We never had them to lose and in the last 5 seasons they have finished below us more times than above us.

This season already looks like about avoiding relegation too.

Probably lucky the owners are fans and have lots of money or they would probably be in serious trouble off the pitch .

Don’t think they have even had a top half finish since relegation?

Bobby girl

Bobby girl

Posted
Posted (edited)

What ever we think about Stoke sacking Neil ,their owner knows how to give credit to him for the building blocks he has laid (team wise) . Said that he has integrity and wishes him well for the future.

Compare that to the shambles and lies that our owner and BT put out, theirs looks class .

Edited by Bobby girl
  • Like 3
2015

2015

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

My mate is a Stoke fan and is praying they replace O’Neil with NP 

I will be envious of them if they appoint him. He'll do a steady job, galvanise the club behind the scenes, bring the majority of the fanbase back on side and make them harder to beat

  • Thank You 1
lenred

lenred

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Stoke fans really wouldn't want NP by the look.

Potter is reportedly their top target, then Dean Smith also linked.

Bloke on the radio last night was suggesting Potter was the fans favourite - seems there are Gas levels of delusion up there! 

Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, lenred said:

Bloke on the radio last night was suggesting Potter was the fans favourite - seems there are Gas levels of delusion up there! 

Potter used to play for them, but it would still be a step downwards for him to say the least!

They seem one of those clubs or fanbases that could do with a relegation to League One tbh.

Eustace could be more realistic given he used to play there and is much less established than Potter.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
  • Like 1
Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

Anyone wondering why Neil left Sunderland...

Money.

No further investigation needed.

To a degree although he and Sunderland's transfer policy didn't align. Both in terms of budget and profile of players.

FFP still applies to Stoke, they've cleared a range of issues but all costs count to begin before certain items deducted.

Money certainly plays a role but I do think we wanted more autonomy and of course financial backing in the market at Sunderland.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
Silvio Dante

Silvio Dante

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Their fans are certainly ambitious! Albeit Parker I wouldn't want here so wirh a non top few budget clubs are welcome to him.

Well ambitious is one interpretation anyway..

“We’ll explore all avenues to get the right person for the job” said technical director Ricky Martin

I’m guessing from that they’re going to be looking upside - inside - out….

  • Funny 4
Redstart

Redstart

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Just Googled, Potter in the last 6 months or so has turned down Lyon, Crystal Palace and Sweden so it feels a bit fanciful him going to Stoke in their current position.

Can't help wondering if his very large payout from Chelsea would be severely cut if he takes on a new job within a certain timescale. Either that or he really rates himself. Can see him being the next Curbishley, linked with everyone - joins no one. 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Redstart said:

Can't help wondering if his very large payout from Chelsea would be severely cut if he takes on a new job within a certain timescale. Either that or he really rates himself. Can see him being the next Curbishley, linked with everyone - joins no one. 

With you on the first bit, that could be a factor. Didn't get his full contact but reportedly £10-15m, on what terms would depend.

Would be a bit of a waste, he can surely do better than Stoke in their current position anyway. Wonder if Brighton v Crystal Palace antipathy played a role there but I doubt it in reality. Still the game moves swiftly on so if he leaves it too long..

Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)

Key word searching, Stoke fans a bit like Derby in the past, seem to have little grasp of Football financial issues.

I'd be surprised if their acquisitions in the summer and there were without doubt many, had a salary below £10k per week as an average.

Then the fees, £15-20m in total?

They also have very high ambitions managerial, Potter, Nuno, Hassenhuttl all desired. 

Their underlying loss before sales in 2021-22 was around £29m.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
GrahamC

GrahamC

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Key word searching, Stoke fans a bit like Derby in the past, seem to have little grasp of Football financial issues.

I'd be surprised if their acquisitions in the summer and there were without doubt many, had a salary below £10k per week as an average.

Then the fees, £15-20m in total?

They also have very high ambitions managerial, Potter, Nuno, Hassenhuttl all desired. 

Their underlying loss before sales in 2021-22 was around £29m.

Have you been to Stoke?

They elected Jonathan Gillis as their MP, he’s basically a shaved ape, a complete & utter moron.

Vile place full of stupid people, their failure (& us winning there 5 years on the trot) gives me joy.

Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Have you been to Stoke?

They elected Jonathan Gillis as their MP, he’s basically a shaved ape, a complete & utter moron.

Vile place full of stupid people, their failure (& us winning there 5 years on the trot) gives me joy.

Never had the, ahem, privilege of a trip to Stoke- sounds like I'm not missing much.

Yes they were a major Brexit vote iirc. Politics aside I also enjoy beating them, have a bug issue with their FFP Covid returns oh and Pulis!

Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)

Lot of chatter on Twitter about Nuno to Stoke. Surely he would be seeking bigger things.

Valencia, Porto, Wolves up, then 7th x 2, into Europe...and Stoke in the bottom 5 of the Championship.

Journo reckons he is the Bookies favourite.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)

Percy says...

Let's recall.

Nuno? More like No no!

Same for Hassenhuttl among other grand proclamations.

Potter, obviously that was a non-starter.

Schumacher from Plymouth. Big blow for Plymouth! They are quite a watchable side, and certainly seem to attack at home.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted (edited)

He is unequivocally a more attacking coach IMO than Neil, Jones or Rowett, is possibly a bit of a non typical Stoke type appointment?

There are lots of goals at both ends with Plymouth, their away record though is very sketchy at this level.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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