Interesting Statistic

[Numero Uno]

If I got it from here apologies but 40 of our 58 goals this season either scored or assisted by players who came through the Academy.

[Davefevs]

40 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

If I got it from here apologies but 40 of our 58 goals this season either scored or assisted by players who came through the Academy.

Nah, you got it from @Shtanley via the OSIB twitter.

He asked me for the data yesterday.

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

If I got it from here apologies but 40 of our 58 goals this season either scored or assisted by players who came through the Academy.

Assuming the source is accurate then it reflects two things 1) how  excellent and important the academy has become 2) the top quality of the coaching set up being able to develop so many youngsters into Championship standard players.

[!james]

Is this claiming Semenyo and Scott came through the academy though? 

[cidercity1987]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

If I got it from here apologies but 40 of our 58 goals this season either scored or assisted by players who came through the Academy.

So 40 out of 116*

Not as amazing as it first looks

 

*I appreciate it might be slightly more than that if an academy product both scored and the assisted the same goal 

[Roe]

1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

So 40 out of 116*

Not as amazing as it first looks

That's not the stat though is it

[Numero Uno]

4 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

So 40 out of 116*

Not as amazing as it first looks

 

*I appreciate it might be slightly more than that if an academy product both scored and the assisted the same goal 

Such as Vyners goal on Friday. I’ll put it to you another way, how much would it cost a club that was in serious FFFP trouble to buy those 40 goal contributions? Anyone who thinks ex-Academy involvement in 69% of our goals is “not as amazing as it looks” is obviously not understanding the situation of the club tbh.

[Numero Uno]

15 minutes ago, !james said:

Is this claiming Semenyo and Scott came through the academy though? 

Well, we didn’t sign either of them from other professional  clubs. If you want to talk semantics let’s call it “players we brought into professional football”.

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Nah, you got it from @Shtanley via the OSIB twitter.

He asked me for the data yesterday.

Well if everyone is nicking it, I am too. 
Coming to a Facebook near you soon 

[italian dave]

47 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Assuming the source is accurate then it reflects two things 1) how  excellent and important the academy has become 2) the top quality of the coaching set up being able to develop so many youngsters into Championship standard players.

Ha ha! Comes from @Davefevs, but it’s not on the OS! There’s a dilemma

[Gazred]

49 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Assuming the source is accurate then it reflects two things 1) how  excellent and important the academy has become 2) the top quality of the coaching set up being able to develop so many youngsters into Championship standard players.

For someone who has previously said "all stats are meaningless" you've done well to find 2 meaningful things from that stat.

Good to see you are learning RR...

[Robbored]

4 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Ha ha! Comes from @Davefevs, but it’s not on the OS! There’s a dilemma

In which case it’s 100% reliable…….

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, Gazred said:

For someone who has previously said "all stats are meaningless" you've done well to find 2 meaningful things from that stat.

Good to see you are learning RR...

Possession stats are meaningless. City had 39% against Stoke and won the game…….

[Davefevs]

57 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Assuming the source is accurate then it reflects two things 1) how  excellent and important the academy has become 2) the top quality of the coaching set up being able to develop so many youngsters into Championship standard players.

You dissing my data RR, taken from PA Media?

54 minutes ago, !james said:

Is this claiming Semenyo and Scott came through the academy though? 

They did.

they don’t have to have joined at 8 to be counted.

For info, Massengo is classed as “club developed” under EFL rules.

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You dissing my data RR, taken from PA Media?

Not all Dave and I have zero interest in possession stats. That said the stats accumulated from individuals players during games are extremely helpful. I’m not sure what system in use these days since Prozone became obsolete tho…….. 

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Not all Dave and I have zero interest in possession stats. That said the stats accumulated from individuals players during games are extremely helpful. I’m not sure what system in use these days since Prozone became obsolete tho…….. 

what’s possession stats got to do with this thread?

[TonyTonyTony]

[Gazred]

54 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Possession stats are meaningless. City had 39% against Stoke and won the game…….

Wrong, it means we had less of the ball. Who mentioned possession stats anyway?

Edited April 8, 2023 by Gazred

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, Gazred said:

Wrong, it means we had less of the ball. Who mentioned possession stats anyway?

Many stats are extremely useful to coaches, managers and the players themselves but others like possession stats are meaningless. The stats that OP has mentioned are indeed interesting and reflect at least two positive elements of the football club.

[Gazred]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Many stats are extremely useful

So not all stats are meaningless then? Just to be clear on it.

[Kid in the Riot]

3 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Well, we didn’t sign either of them from other professional  clubs. If you want to talk semantics let’s call it “players we brought into professional football”.

It's a bit of a grey area admittedly, but personally I don't think any of Scott, Pring or Semenyo are "products" of the academy.

Alex Scott was in the academy/development squad for all of 6 months. Pring signed for us from Cheltenham aged 18, and Semenyo also signed a pro contract aged 18 and made his first team debut the season he joined. 

Big difference between them and Bryan, Reid, and Kelly. 

[Robbored]

30 minutes ago, Gazred said:

So not all stats are meaningless then? Just to be clear on it.

Possession stats are meaningless.

[Gazred]

Just now, Robbored said:

Possession stats are meaningless.

So not all stats then. Thanks for clearing that up.

[CiderJar]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Possession stats are meaningless.

By definition they are, proportionately, the amount of time a team has on the ball. This becomes their meaning, which in turn makes them full of meaning and therefore meaningful.  I understand if they don't mean anything to you or the context of the game. Meaningless would be something like the number of times a player jumps through a hoop of custard on a ukulele.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It's a bit of a grey area admittedly, but personally I don't think any of Scott, Pring or Semenyo are "products" of the academy.

Alex Scott was in the academy/development squad for all of 6 months. Pring signed for us from Cheltenham aged 18, and Semenyo also signed a pro contract aged 18 and made his first team debut the season he joined. 

Big difference between them and Bryan, Reid, and Kelly. 

It is a grey area, but you can’t spot everyone at 8, nor does everyone at 8 develop into a first team player either.

My rule of thumb is, we’re they signed by the Academy.  In the case of Scott, Pring and Semenyo - yes, they were.  They started their City journeys playing age group football.  Idehen is a greyer one, because he was signed into the Academy but had played first team EFL for Grimsby.  Massengo, despite being classed as club developed I would never count.  He was signed for the first team, and had played first team for Monaco.

But that’s just my rules.

[Bar BS3]

8 hours ago, Robbored said:

Possession stats are meaningless.

Not if you want to know  which team had most possession.!

 

 

 

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Not if you want to know  which team had most possession.

Which has no bearing on the result. Clubs often win matches with far less possession than their opponents.

[Bar BS3]

5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Which has no bearing on the result. Clubs often win matches with far less possession than their opponents.

That must mean that you often look at the possession stats..!

 

You aren't being innovative here in saying Possession stats don't relate to the final scores - but it's nonsense to say that the stats are meaningless.!

They tell you about that area of the general play.

You are the one saying that the stats are meaningless, then also the one whose checking the stats against results to tell everyone that they are meaningless..!

Counter attacking teams are always likely to conceded possession stats & can be very successful in doing so.

Only the very top teams consistently dominate possession.

 

[phantom]

13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Nah, you got it from @Shtanley via the OSIB twitter.

He asked me for the data yesterday.

Was mentioned on Talksport too

[1960maaan]

9 hours ago, Robbored said:

Possession stats are meaningless.

If you just rely on possession numbers, then yeah. But that would be strange anyway.

22 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Which has no bearing on the result.

If you're 1-0 down to a side that can dominate possession , then it can have a big bearing on results

11 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

That must mean that you often look at the possession stats..!

 

You aren't being innovative here in saying Possession stats don't relate to the final scores - but it's nonsense to say that the stats are meaningless.!

They tell you about that area of the general play.

You are the one saying that the stats are meaningless, then also the one whose checking the stats against results to tell everyone that they are meaningless..!

Counter attacking teams are always likely to conceded possession stats & can be very successful in doing so.

Only the very top teams consistently dominate possession.

 

Agree with your post, and stats can give you insight into games but you can't use just one set of stats.
The one thing I will say is about your last sentence. Swansea dominate possession but are not a top side, but they can show that it's not everything. They've conceded more than us, have worse goal difference and are lower in the table yet consistently win on possession numbers. 
Stats used properly can help, they can tell you what you aren't doing as much as what you are. As you say, we often have less possession in games, that stat alone means little, but it can tell you how we generally go about games.