Kalas to leave ?

[Swede]

9 hours ago, Mendip City said:

If we could add his transfer fee, signing on fee, agents fees, wages etc together…. I’m pretty sure his cost per game would be eye-watering and not represent anything like value for money. He’ll be gone in the summer. 

Thank you Mr Ashton

[milo1111]

1 hour ago, tin said:

Fair enough, Graham. I agree with a lot of that. My point, however, was about us paying a premium for three Chelsea youngsters and the prospect of them all leaving on frees and how that is a prime example of profligacy. 

Granted, we’ve got more bang for our buck from Dasilva - arguably he’s been the best value out of the three - but we are still likely to see no ROI.

That’s indicative of the scattergun approach under Ashton and LJ, both of whom were keen to mouth off about their relationship with Emenalo, who  was also at Monaco when we signed Massengo. I suspect he saw those two charlatans coming a mile off. 

All f****** day long. Superb post. The lansdowns asleep at the wheel. 

[Curr Avon]

3 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

 

• 2019- BCFC 105 apperances.

I forgot about our long Europa League run!

[Topper 123]

The player is quality BUT we can’t afford to be paying high wages for players made of glass who spend large parts of season on treatment table 

[Mendip City]

2 hours ago, Swede said:

Thank you Mr Ashton

Sadly I don’t remember many people complaining at the time. Personally I wouldn’t have signed any of those 3 Chelsea players… Chelsea did well out of us! 

[Bris Red]

24 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Sadly I don’t remember many people complaining at the time. Personally I wouldn’t have signed any of those 3 Chelsea players… Chelsea did well out of us! 

Indeed they did. I think the £8 million we paid was far too high and i thought so much at the time.

Add to that the alleged £20 k a week he is on then it represents a pretty horrendous financial deal for us in reality.

Edited April 16, 2023 by Bris Red

[shelts]

If Chelsea was selling we was buying . All three gifted players but have differing reasons why they haven’t worked out . Interesting all three will leave for nothing and were bought in by a previous manager and Mr Ashton . I wish then all the best but not against us !

[milo1111]

1 hour ago, Mendip City said:

Sadly I don’t remember many people complaining at the time. Personally I wouldn’t have signed any of those 3 Chelsea players… Chelsea did well out of us! 

Of course they did. 
 Fans will usually get excited when their club makes a signing for decent cash from a club higher up the food chain. Only time will tell if the people signing off of those acquisitions have made a good call in the best interests of their employers or not.

In the case of palmer and kalas I’m of the opinion that Ashton  and LJ dropped a bollock. Dasilva has probably been ok but still wil be going on a free.

Edited April 16, 2023 by milo1111

[GrahamC]

6 hours ago, tin said:

Fair enough, Graham. I agree with a lot of that. My point, however, was about us paying a premium for three Chelsea youngsters and the prospect of them all leaving on frees and how that is a prime example of profligacy. 

Granted, we’ve got more bang for our buck from Dasilva - arguably he’s been the best value out of the three - but we are still likely to see no ROI.

That’s indicative of the scattergun approach under Ashton and LJ, both of whom were keen to mouth off about their relationship with Emenalo, who  was also at Monaco when we signed Massengo. I suspect he saw those two charlatans coming a mile off. 

100%.

Was thinking earlier of Pearson’s first retained list, Hunt (£1.5m), Baker (£3.5m but later re-signed) Watkins (£1m), Adelakun (£600k), Paterson (£900k), Walsh (up to £1m), Diedhiou (£5.3m) all allowed to leave us for free.

Not sure any of those decisions were actually wrong, as none of them have exactly set the world on fire since but symptomatic of the total shit show NP inherited & is finally about to reach the bottom of. Also moved Nagy on later that summer, another £2m down the drain.

Second year saw Palmer & O’Dowda go, that’s another £5m, ******* hell.
 

 

[downendcity]

22 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

100%.

Was thinking earlier of Pearson’s first retained list, Hunt (£1.5m), Baker (£3.5m but later re-signed) Watkins (£1m), Adelakun (£600k), Paterson (£900k), Walsh (up to £1m), Diedhiou (£5.3m) all allowed to leave us for free.

Not sure any of those decisions were actually wrong, as none of them have exactly set the world on fire since but symptomatic of the total shit show NP inherited & is finally about to reach the bottom of. Also moved Nagy on later that summer, another £2m down the drain.

Second year saw Palmer & O’Dowda go, that’s another £5m, ******* hell.
 

 

You can never have enough clubs in the bag!

 

[Ska Junkie]

While I totally agree with the sentiment that we overspent hugely, and wrongly, would the likes of TK get much better offers than taking a pay cut here, given the financial situation at most clubs at our level nowadays and the severe costs of profligacy, some, ourselves included have exhibited previously?

1 minute ago, downendcity said:

You can never have enough clubs in the bag!

 

If you saw me play, there's never enough!

[bpexile]

14 hours ago, Mendip City said:

If we could add his transfer fee, signing on fee, agents fees, wages etc together…. I’m pretty sure his cost per game would be eye-watering and not represent anything like value for money. He’ll be gone in the summer. 

Sadly in todays world he has to be seen as you state, its just not good business anymore to carry the luxury of a good player that cannot play on a regular basis. I love the way he plays when fit (who wouldn't) but its not often enough is it & even taking a big pay cut wouldn't make him a fit player.

Edited April 16, 2023 by bpexile

[Yank]

I'll fly over and pack his bags for him tbh. Ok player, but too injury prone, not what we need anymore.

[Tinmans Love Child]

7 hours ago, GrahamC said:

100%.

Was thinking earlier of Pearson’s first retained list, Hunt (£1.5m), Baker (£3.5m but later re-signed) Watkins (£1m), Adelakun (£600k), Paterson (£900k), Walsh (up to £1m), Diedhiou (£5.3m) all allowed to leave us for free.

Not sure any of those decisions were actually wrong, as none of them have exactly set the world on fire since but symptomatic of the total shit show NP inherited & is finally about to reach the bottom of. Also moved Nagy on later that summer, another £2m down the drain.

Second year saw Palmer & O’Dowda go, that’s another £5m, ******* hell.
 

 

And when you compare that to what we have brought through this season for free from the academy! 

[Jacki]

I wouldn’t be keeping Kalas personally. This last few weeks has shown how stretched a small squad gets when injuries strike and his fitness record has been woeful for a long time now. I’m sure I’ve read on here over the years  that he’s on closer to £30k a week than the £20k people are quoting on this thread. I’ve always had it in my head that he’s our highest paid player either way. We’ve just never had that kind of value out of him for me, even when he was fit more often.

I know I’m in the minority here but I actually don’t rate Kalas that highly as a player either. He’s often ‘brave’, flying into tackles and headers etc. but that’s precisely why he gets injured so often. I also don’t think he reads the game that well. The very best defenders rarely have to make crunching tackles because they cut out danger without having to. A lot of what Kalas does is last ditch defending in order to compensate for him not reading the play or making a positional error.

With all of that in mind, I’d be wishing Kalas all the best but would definitely be letting him leave. 

[ExiledAjax]

46 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

@Davefevs @Mr Popodopolous what does a potential renewal do for the amortisation of the £8m fee? Does that help us in FFP land? 

When you extend it give a new contract to a player any remaining amortisation amount is "re-amortised" across the new contract.

So if we have £1.5m left to amortise on a contract and we give that player a 3 year contract then it costs us £500k for the next 3 years rather than £1.5m this year.

However, Kalas is OOC in June 2023, so his previous contract will be totally amortised out at that point. Thus if we give him a new contract there is nothing left to amortise anyway. So it's moot.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

When you extend it give a new contract to a player any remaining amortisation amount is "re-amortised" across the new contract.

So if we have £1.5m left to amortise on a contract and we give that player a 3 year contract then it costs us £500k for the next 3 years rather than £1.5m this year.

However, Kalas is OOC in June 2023, so his previous contract will be totally amortised out at that point. Thus if we give him a new contract there is nothing left to amortise anyway. So it's moot.

Yep, it’s pretty much a free transfer if we extend him now.

[chalkeyred]

10 hours ago, downendcity said:

You can never have enough clubs in the bag!

 

That Hogan speed slot was a thing of beauty in it's day.....

[ExiledAjax]

20 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

Hmm, thought perhaps it would be a factor in the decision making. 

Will be quite nice for a decision to be made solely on the basis of football for once, though. 

Still unsure how this one plays out. 

Yep. It's basically a decision as to whether any new wage, bonuses, signing fee and any agent fee is worth it for Kalas.

He's potentially a relatively (ie relative to buying in an equivalent defender) cheap and very experienced CB.

Transfers and big ticket FFP questions are moot with this one.

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

Hmm, thought perhaps it would be a factor in the decision making. 

Will be quite nice for a decision to be made solely on the basis of football for once, though. 

Still unsure how this one plays out. 

It might’ve been beneficial last summer to spread out his £2m amortisation for this year, over a longer period, but that ship has pretty much sailed now.

Yeah, I’ve no idea how this one will go.  Lots of pros and cons.

In effect, if he is extended, it will be like signing a 30 year old free transfer, probably still one of our higher earners.  The challenge for the recruitment team is to get someone equivalent / better who is younger / cheaper.

It would be much easier for us fans had he played crap when he returned from injury in Feb, before getting injured again!

[GrahamC]

28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It might’ve been beneficial last summer to spread out his £2m amortisation for this year, over a longer period, but that ship has pretty much sailed now.

Yeah, I’ve no idea how this one will go.  Lots of pros and cons.

In effect, if he is extended, it will be like signing a 30 year old free transfer, probably still one of our higher earners.  The challenge for the recruitment team is to get someone equivalent / better who is younger / cheaper.

It would be much easier for us fans had he played crap when he returned from injury in Feb, before getting injured again!

I’ve prevaricated over this one for weeks but whatever happens in the last 4 games (as it appears he certainly won’t feature tomorrow night) have come down on the side that we should part ways.

For what it’s worth (& nothing to do with his concussion) I wouldn’t have retained Baker either, even on reduced terms I felt a player who had featured just 3 times was too much of a gamble, though no one knew what was coming there.

I don’t buy though the revisionism about signing Tomas, we sold Webster for £20m that summer & signing him for £8m didn’t seem excessive in comparison & we also were getting a top quality player we knew & wanted to sign.

Worth pointing out too that he was absolutely outstanding in the side that made the Euro quarter finals & even this season his performance against Man City showed a fit Kalas is still a class above every other defender we have.

However his availability record over the last year is so poor (he’s featured in just 9 squads in the last 50+ league games) that even if we got him to halve his salary, I still cannot be confident it would be good value.

Getting Atkinson fit, having Vyner as an always available, far cheaper squad option & bringing in one Championship proven CB & a fourth probably younger one like the Palace kid this summer is the way forward now.

[hinsleburg]

4 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I’ve prevaricated over this one for weeks but whatever happens in the last 4 games (as it appears he certainly won’t feature tomorrow night) have come down on the side that we should part ways.

For what it’s worth (& nothing to do with his concussion) I wouldn’t have retained Baker either, even on reduced terms I felt a player who had featured just 3 times was too much of a gamble, though no one knew what was coming there.

I don’t buy though the revisionism about signing Tomas, we sold Webster for £20m that summer & signing him for £8m didn’t seem excessive in comparison & we also were getting a top quality player we knew & wanted to sign.

Worth pointing out too that he was absolutely outstanding in the side that made the Euro quarter finals & even this season his performance against Man City showed a fit Kalas is still a class above every other defender we have.

However his availability record over the last year is so poor (he’s featured in just 9 squads in the last 50+ league games) that even if we got him to halve his salary, I still cannot be confident it would be good value.

Getting Atkinson fit, having Vyner as an always available, far cheaper squad option & bringing in one Championship proven CB & a fourth probably younger one like the Palace kid this summer is the way forward now.

I agree with most of this.

Like the bloke, like the player but don't have enough faith he will come back the same...

I am concerned though that I think we potentially need 3 CB's this window as have no idea how long or in what condition Atkinson will return. I'm not sure who they are but think we need two Championship ready defenders and I do like the idea of a younger player providing depth. (Assuming Low and Idehen aren't in contention) Naismith's versatility means I'm not sure we can pencil him in as a guaranteed starter at CB and Pring is far more effective at LB.

Got absolutely no idea what's going to happen this summer and it's both terrifying and exciting, I'm confident we won't be signing players for the sake of it though which is a good place to start...

[Clutton Caveman]

On 16/04/2023 at 07:48, Bas's perfect hattrick said:

Sad if he does go, but imo his injury record doesn't warrant a new contract even with the reduced salary. 

Unless he would accept a pay for play contract

[LondonBristolian]

4 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

Unless he would accept a pay for play contract

I think pay as you play contracts are generally a bit of an urban myth. Fans always suggest them but I can't remember the last time someone was confirmed to have a pay as you play contract for any club, and I certainly can't think of the last one who did so for us. We might get someone to sign a contract with hefty bonus clauses as compensation for a lower basic wage but Kalas would still command a hefty basic wage. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by LondonBristolian

[Gazred]

You'd think he would be taking a significant pay cut on his next deal wherever that may be but others be that bigger budget Champ or abroad will be able to offer more than we can if they really want him.

I like him, he's a good defender and still in his prime years. If a deal can be reached that's fine but i think like Atkinson, there is probably a better value deal to be done if we can find it and make it happen.

[LondonBristolian]

I think the simple problem with Kalas is he has had the wrong injuries at the wrong times. I don't think he is necessarily injury prone and may just have been unlucky but I think, coupled with the other injuries we've had this season and the fact Vyner has shown he can be trusted as a first choice RCB in a back four it has made it very difficult for the club to justify a new contract offer. Sadly I think we have to release him and get a cheaper alternative to understudy/compete with Vyner but I completely believe Kalas will succeed elsewhere. 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, hinsleburg said:

I agree with most of this.

Like the bloke, like the player but don't have enough faith he will come back the same...

I am concerned though that I think we potentially need 3 CB's this window as have no idea how long or in what condition Atkinson will return. I'm not sure who they are but think we need two Championship ready defenders and I do like the idea of a younger player providing depth. (Assuming Low and Idehen aren't in contention) Naismith's versatility means I'm not sure we can pencil him in as a guaranteed starter at CB and Pring is far more effective at LB.

Got absolutely no idea what's going to happen this summer and it's both terrifying and exciting, I'm confident we won't be signing players for the sake of it though which is a good place to start...

Agree with all of that bar the 3 centre backs bit.

Vyner is fit & so 2 additions until Atkinson is back with Naismith & Pring both able to play there, is fine.

One has to be a bloke currently playing or who has played at this level though, it can’t be 2 that are long term projects.

[Leveller]

On 16/04/2023 at 09:24, Lanterne Rouge said:

It`ll be a shame if he goes but it won`t be the end of the world as we know it.........................

But we’ll be shiny happy people if he stays?

[old_eastender]

I'm in two minds about Kalas even IF he were offered a contract at 50% cut and would accept.

He is very good defender on the ground and getting blocks in, but is pretty weak in the air. A lot of the poor goals we concede are due to the lack of a CB who is really good in the air.

Finding a 'Flint' type is what we need to consolidate defence and offer more threat at our corners & free kicks that are going to be crossed in.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Kalas is typecast as this blocker etc but his technical stats when fit are quite good, albeit conservative.

Pre injury he could be quite quick over the ground too. Interception stats were positive.

Debit side, he would need to take a significant paycut and his injury record for 18 months now has been off the charts. Even if he was to take a major paycut the concern is how long can he be fit.

Usually Interceptions outstrip tackles cor him which is IMO quite a modern trait. Clearances outstrip both of course.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous