England Vs Italy

[Harry]

12 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

Italy are the better team so I’d rather see Ukraine there. And it would be nice for the Ukrainian people.

Well, having Italian family on one side and Russian family on the other, I’ll politely disagree

[Northern Red]

1 minute ago, reddoc said:

I'm just sat here thinking metatarsal. 

It'd be the most "England" thing to happen, wouldn't it? I'm still convinced we'd have won Euro 2004 if Rooney hadn't done his in the quarter final.

[Bristol Rob]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

Well, having Italian family on one side and Russian family on the other, I’ll politely disagree

And Mexican!

[Harry]

Lots of he positive about but equally some worrying things for when it comes to the crunch games against the best teams late in tournaments. 
 

Bellingham will be a multi Ballon D’Or winner they may as well rename it the Bellingham D’Or. 

However, Phillips still being selected is a major concern for me. Alongside the quality we have, he looks like a league 1 player. He just looks lost in this team. 
And a big concern with Rashfords defensive work. He’s been missing his runners all season for Man U and is bringing that lack of awareness and desire to the national team. 
Against the better sides, that’s where we’ll lose it. 
 

Aside from those 2 though, very positive. 

[Bristol Rob]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

Lots of he positive about but equally some worrying things for when it comes to the crunch games against the best teams late in tournaments. 
 

Bellingham will be a multi Ballon D’Or winner they may as well rename it the Bellingham D’Or. 

However, Phillips still being selected is a major concern for me. Alongside the quality we have, he looks like a league 1 player. He just looks lost in this team. 
And a big concern with Rashfords defensive work. He’s been missing his runners all season for Man U and is bringing that lack of awareness and desire to the national team. 
Against the better sides, that’s where we’ll lose it. 
 

Aside from those 2 though, very positive. 

The criticism also brings in to focus, the 'Hendo' situation.

Would the fact he is electing to play in a league of a lower standard impact your selection decision?

[steviestevieneville]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

Lots of he positive about but equally some worrying things for when it comes to the crunch games against the best teams late in tournaments. 
 

Bellingham will be a multi Ballon D’Or winner they may as well rename it the Bellingham D’Or. 

However, Phillips still being selected is a major concern for me. Alongside the quality we have, he looks like a league 1 player. He just looks lost in this team. 
And a big concern with Rashfords defensive work. He’s been missing his runners all season for Man U and is bringing that lack of awareness and desire to the national team. 
Against the better sides, that’s where we’ll lose it. 
 

Aside from those 2 though, very positive. 

Philips is a very good player & calling him league one level is laughable. He does however look well off match pace & fitness due to not playing. He needs to move in January & get regular games. 

[Super]

Bellingham is class off the pitch as well. That was a great interview.

[The Gasbuster]

1 minute ago, Super said:

Bellingham is class off the pitch as well. That was a great interview.

Just thinking the same.

Superstar already.

[maxjak]

25 minutes ago, Harry said:

Lots of he positive about but equally some worrying things for when it comes to the crunch games against the best teams late in tournaments. 
 

Bellingham will be a multi Ballon D’Or winner they may as well rename it the Bellingham D’Or. 

However, Phillips still being selected is a major concern for me. Alongside the quality we have, he looks like a league 1 player. He just looks lost in this team. 
And a big concern with Rashfords defensive work. He’s been missing his runners all season for Man U and is bringing that lack of awareness and desire to the national team. 
Against the better sides, that’s where we’ll lose it. 
 

Aside from those 2 though, very positive. 

So who replaces Phillips?   And please don't say that bloke who plays in the desert.........Ha!!

[BS15_RED]

58 minutes ago, Blagdon red said:

Hallo Deutschland!

For all hoping to go, here's a shameless plug for my website Euro 2024 in Germany

Time to start planning that trip!

Waiting for the draw to be made, then will start booking the flights and accommodation.

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

I don’t watch much top flight football but a lot of pundits say that Mitchell at palace is a qualify left back and are surprised he hasn’t been given a chance 

He has said he wants to play for Jamaica so that might be why

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, ralphindevon said:

The brilliant Bellingham got me thinking.

When was the last time someone has played for England but never played in the top flight in England.

As I write I’ve just thought of Owen Hargreaves, before that the only other that comes to mind in my time is Steve Bull. Probably others though? 

 

Hargreaves played for Man United for 4 years

[NewquayRed]

1 hour ago, The Gasbuster said:

Just thinking the same.

Superstar already.

Have to give some credit to the ‘system’ and ‘regime’ when we exited tournaments like 2010 etc the cry was for change 

I think we have that 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by NewquayRed

[Harry]

1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

Philips is a very good player & calling him league one level is laughable. He does however look well off match pace & fitness due to not playing. He needs to move in January & get regular games. 

I didn’t say he’s a league 1 player. I said, amongst the company he’s keeping in this team, he looks league 1 level. ie he’s not at the same level as the rest of the squad. 

[MarcusX]

Just in the car on the way home, and some of these comments are confusing if not out right amusing (Rooney peaking at 18  ) I think I watched a different game.

First and foremost that was the Bellingham show tonight, he ran the game. It wasn’t perfect but it was a grab the game by the scruff of the neck type performance by him, reminded me of the sorts of things we’ve seen from Gerrard, Beckham etc in the past in big games.

1 hour ago, Northern Red said:

Bellingham had a proper swagger about him tonight that I've not noticed before, self confidence bordering on arrogance that says "I'm f*****g good and you lot know I am".

I agree with this and been saying it a while, he’s definitely playing like that in Madrid. It’s like he’s starting to believe his hype - I just hope he can keep it a “positive” arrogance. He seems intelligent though.

Their goal came against the run of play, and we took a little while to react but other than that we were in control and I didn’t doubt we’d get the win.

Thought Kane looked much sharper tonight, maybe the Bayern effect? Someone said he was quiet, I don’t think he was. He was busy pressing and dropping in and picking the ball up and he earned his second with his press.

A few players weren’t at their best, Trippier and Phillips aren’t long term answers IMO but we’re missing players. If we want to release Bellingham in the 10 we need to find the answer to the third midfielder alongside Rice.

Atmosphere was actually ok for a Wembley game. Only saw 1 paper aeroplane! The “home” section were making noise most of the game.

Always disappointing how many leave before the end, players did a lap of honour to a quarter full stadium. I know it’s shit to get away from the ground but still.

[Harry]

51 minutes ago, maxjak said:

So who replaces Phillips?   And please don't say that bloke who plays in the desert.........Ha!!

Wouldn’t play Henderson either. 
It’s the perennial Southgate argument as to why we need the 2nd holding midfielder. 
Thats not a ‘Southgate out’ comment by the way. I’m not. 
But I don’t think the 2nd DM is necessary. Never have. And if it is a necessity, the very reason it should be there is to prevent goals like the one conceded today. So it doesn’t really work defensively and it stagnates us offensively. 
 

As for who - there’s a few options. Hopefully Alex Scott will be one soon

You need a playmaker in there, not another DM. Rice is good enough for the DM role. Just make sure he doesn’t venture forward too far. 
Get a playmaker in there instead. Hell, I wouldn’t be against Trent doing that role, but you could easily slot Ward Prowse in there. Could even play with Rice as a DM with Bellingham & Foden as 2 8’s. Foden is definitely more comfortable and decisive in a central area than he is wide. 
Or Jude as an 8 with Maddison as a 10. 
Just need more creativity in the midfield rather than the security of a 2nd DM (who’s not at the level). 

[North London Red]

2 hours ago, ralphindevon said:

The brilliant Bellingham got me thinking.

When was the last time someone has played for England but never played in the top flight in England.

As I write I’ve just thought of Owen Hargreaves, before that the only other that comes to mind in my time is Steve Bull. Probably others though? 

 

Steve Bull did play in the top flight, for West Brom in 1986. 

[ZiderEyed]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

Wouldn’t play Henderson either. 
It’s the perennial Southgate argument as to why we need the 2nd holding midfielder. 
Thats not a ‘Southgate out’ comment by the way. I’m not. 
But I don’t think the 2nd DM is necessary. Never have. And if it is a necessity, the very reason it should be there is to prevent goals like the one conceded today. So it doesn’t really work defensively and it stagnates us offensively. 
 

As for who - there’s a few options. Hopefully Alex Scott will be one soon

You need a playmaker in there, not another DM. Rice is good enough for the DM role. Just make sure he doesn’t venture forward too far. 
Get a playmaker in there instead. Hell, I wouldn’t be against Trent doing that role, but you could easily slot Ward Prowse in there. Could even play with Rice as a DM with Bellingham & Foden as 2 8’s. Foden is definitely more comfortable and decisive in a central area than he is wide. 
Or Jude as an 8 with Maddison as a 10. 
Just need more creativity in the midfield rather than the security of a 2nd DM (who’s not at the level). 

Was looking at the line-up vs Italy in the Euros final a minute ago and forgot we set up with those two DMs. Hopefully we're beyond that now, Rice is clearly enough on his own back there. 

I thought Foden was really good tonight, obvious pairing is surely Foden - Bellingham. Balanced, energetic, plenty of creativity.

Phillips needs the Napoleon treatment, send him off to St. Helena ASAFP.

[ralphindevon]

9 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Hargreaves played for Man United for 4 years

 

8 hours ago, North London Red said:

Steve Bull did play in the top flight, for West Brom in 1986. 

Yes, but they both first played for England before they’d played in our top flight.

I’m sure Bellingham will play in our top flight at some point but at the moment he’s in a small group of players, certainly in the last 50 years, that have played for England before they’ve played England’s top division.

[Jose]

8 hours ago, ZiderEyed said:

Was looking at the line-up vs Italy in the Euros final a minute ago and forgot we set up with those two DMs. Hopefully we're beyond that now, Rice is clearly enough on his own back there. 

I thought Foden was really good tonight, obvious pairing is surely Foden - Bellingham. Balanced, energetic, plenty of creativity.

Phillips needs the Napoleon treatment, send him off to St. Helena ASAFP.

We are not beyond that unfortunately. Playing Phillips when he hasn’t played for two years shows that we will continue to play the two defensive minded players there. 
 

[Blagdon red]

10 hours ago, BS15_RED said:

Waiting for the draw to be made, then will start booking the flights and accommodation.

Understand re flights, as they can't usually be cancelled. But hotel rooms often can and prices will soar as soon as the draw is made. It's possible to 'beat the system' by reserving rooms now at current rates and then cancelling the ones you don't need once the draw is made.

See more here: https://www.euro2024ingermany.com/dates

[zombie]

10 hours ago, maxjak said:

So who replaces Phillips?   And please don't say that bloke who plays in the desert.........Ha!!

Rico Lewis? TAA? It’s a shame that we don’t have more depth at CB, otherwise Stones would be an option. Dunk has been playing well for a while, think he prefers LCB, same with Colwill, but looks like Maguire will likely be LCB. Guehi or Tomori aren’t currently at Stones level at RCB, yet. I do think Stones will definitely start the Euros at RCB, but playing him as the 6, Rice as a 8 and Jude wherever he sees fit is just a thought I had.

Next few friendlies I’d be picking (if fit) TAA, Rice, Jude, hopefully the games will be against decent opposition and they ‘click’, all 3 are very talented, all bring something slightly different to the table, it should/could work.

[AshtonGreat]

11 hours ago, stephenkibby. said:

After all these years it's gona be our time i reckon. Never before have we looked like the real deal more than we do now.

So many genuinely top players. France the only Country that could stop us for me.

Would be some final.

 

Portugal will be a danger

[RedRock]

My take; we have a couple of world class players in Bellingham and Kane. We have some decent international standard in Rice, Stones, Walker. 

What we need is a few to step up from the remaining six, who are just either average or variable/inconsistent. That’s possible as the likes of Rashford, Pickford have the ability to attain good international level.

If, say, three or four of those others hit peak form in a tournament we have a real chance. 
 

Not getting carried away though, as the ease a very average Italian side cut through our defence/defensive midfield was alarming on occasions.

 

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, ralphindevon said:

 

Yes, but they both first played for England before they’d played in our top flight.

I’m sure Bellingham will play in our top flight at some point but at the moment he’s in a small group of players, certainly in the last 50 years, that have played for England before they’ve played England’s top division.

You're initial post said never played in the Premier League, that's why I responded

[Open End Numb Legs]

Where players are selected that perhaps goes against public opinion I think it is partly down to international coaches wanting to persevere with and maintain a 'club' feel within the squad.

There are pros and cons with this of course but with Eng currently looking pretty good it will be a morale he will want to protect.

[Henry]

10 hours ago, Harry said:

Wouldn’t play Henderson either. 
It’s the perennial Southgate argument as to why we need the 2nd holding midfielder. 
Thats not a ‘Southgate out’ comment by the way. I’m not. 
But I don’t think the 2nd DM is necessary. Never have. And if it is a necessity, the very reason it should be there is to prevent goals like the one conceded today. So it doesn’t really work defensively and it stagnates us offensively. 
 

As for who - there’s a few options. Hopefully Alex Scott will be one soon

You need a playmaker in there, not another DM. Rice is good enough for the DM role. Just make sure he doesn’t venture forward too far. 
Get a playmaker in there instead. Hell, I wouldn’t be against Trent doing that role, but you could easily slot Ward Prowse in there. Could even play with Rice as a DM with Bellingham & Foden as 2 8’s. Foden is definitely more comfortable and decisive in a central area than he is wide. 
Or Jude as an 8 with Maddison as a 10. 
Just need more creativity in the midfield rather than the security of a 2nd DM (who’s not at the level). 

I can’t see Southgate playing two 8s even though he could easily do so against lesser opposition.

 I can’t imagine what Trent was thinking last night. Fit, in form, often playing in the midfield spot, yet sat watching Phillips and Henderson coming on.

 I really think we could finally control a game against a top side with a midfield of Rice, Trent and Bellingham.

[MarcusX]

12 minutes ago, Open End Numb Legs said:

Where players are selected that perhaps goes against public opinion I think it is partly down to international coaches wanting to persevere with and maintain a 'club' feel within the squad.

There are pros and cons with this of course but with Eng currently looking pretty good it will be a morale he will want to protect.

Problem is that 99% of us are far less qualified, and have far less knowledge of the players than Southgate and his team (or most managers for that matter).

Football isn't played on paper or a computer game, there's many factors that go into team selection - even down to who's turned up with a bad attitude on the day, not feeling 100%, didn't get enough sleep etc things we'll never be privvy to.

The fact that the players who aren't getting as much game time as they'd probably like, still appear to be happy in the setup probably tells us there's a good morale in the camp.

I've played and managed several teams for many years at various levels. I've yet to be involved in one where everyone's agreed with a team selection.

[Harry]

1 hour ago, zombie said:

Rico Lewis? TAA? It’s a shame that we don’t have more depth at CB, otherwise Stones would be an option. Dunk has been playing well for a while, think he prefers LCB, same with Colwill, but looks like Maguire will likely be LCB. Guehi or Tomori aren’t currently at Stones level at RCB, yet. I do think Stones will definitely start the Euros at RCB, but playing him as the 6, Rice as a 8 and Jude wherever he sees fit is just a thought I had.

Next few friendlies I’d be picking (if fit) TAA, Rice, Jude, hopefully the games will be against decent opposition and they ‘click’, all 3 are very talented, all bring something slightly different to the table, it should/could work.

I don’t think Stones in midfield is something I’d personally go for. 
We have Rice and Bellingham. For me, we just need someone else in there who has the passing ability and vision to create. 
 

Kane obviously stands alone as the striker, so we basically have the 2 wide forwards and the 3rd midfielder as the roles to fill. 
That’s 3 spaces for top top quality players such as Saka, Foden, Maddison, Grealish, Rashford, Trent, Ward-Prowse, without even bringing Mount & Sterling into the conversation. 
 

Those 3 places should be filled by 3 of those names above, and not by a centre back coming into midfield or by a defensive minded CM such as Phillips/Henderson. 
 

I’ve listed 9 names above for 3 positions. This is our biggest area of strength and depth. Every single one of those 9 listed is a superior player to Phillips/Henderson (in my opinion) and we really ought to be making more of this crop of supreme talent in that area. By only playing 2 of those 9, it’s a sad waste and I think will still be our undoing at the deep end of tournaments. 

[zombie]

Just an idea with Stones, more of a ‘what if we had more depth at CB?’ thought.

As things stand today, I’d be keen to see Rice, TAA & Jude get some minutes together pre Euros. Long season ahead, but with everyone fit I’d not be too upset to see something like below if the tournament was imminent:

Pickford

James. Stones. Maguire. Shaw

TAA. Rice

Bellingham

Saka. Kane. Rashford

Depending on opposition and form very easy to make a case for Walker or Grealish to be included. It would also be on the proviso that TAA get minutes in the middle in the next few friendlies, ideally alongside Rice and Jude. As I said long season ahead, loads can change, but if most of those stay fit, especially the key players (Kane, Jude, Saka, Rice) we have the basis of a team that should be in the conversation of those who could potentially win the thing.