Tinns Speaks

[Red-Robbo]

19 minutes ago, Ian M said:

Moving forward it seems Tinnion will assume responsibility for our style of play, recruitment/retention, culture of the club 

 

TBF he doesn't say that in the video, just repeats what NP before him has said about our preferred style of play. Nor has anyone from the board or the owner confirmed that this is what his role is.

[Homer Simpson]

Apparently BT and JL will both have input with the new coach.

 

[Ska Junkie]

1 minute ago, Homer Simpson said:

Apparently BT and JL will both have input with the new coach.

 

To be fair, I thought that was BT yesterday.

[Ian M]

10 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Just for clarity, what were my "worst words"? 

And also can you find the point where I said BT has "done nothing for the club since he's been brought back"?

So yes, you have put words in my mouth.

You may be annoyed with people giving Tinnion abuse, you seem very protective of him, fine - but I am not one of those people giving him personal abuse, i've actively condoned it actually. So go and reply to those people directly about that if you want, not me.

This is a BCFC football forum, all i'm doing is debating the job he's doing at BCFC and the quality of his opinion. 

*condemned

(Condoned means you approve of it)

[Alessandro]

3 minutes ago, Ian M said:

*condemned

(Condoned means you approve of it)

 Run out of emoji's again - thank you!!

[the1stknowle]

44 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Just for clarity, what were my "worst words"? 

And also can you find the point where I said BT has "done nothing for the club since he's been brought back"?

So yes, you have put words in my mouth.

You may be annoyed with people giving Tinnion abuse, you seem very protective of him, fine - but I am not one of those people giving him personal abuse, i've actively it actually. So go and reply to those people directly about that if you want, not me.

This is a BCFC football forum, all i'm doing is debating the job he's doing at BCFC and the quality of his opinion. 

I’m not getting into an internet back and forth on the ‘point to where I said blah’. They never end well. 
 

it’s not just you I’m picking up and agree you are more measured than the real name calling posts. And yes, I am annoyed by those as I don’t think they are properly justified yet apart from by hearsay and echo chamber. And I think they go hand in hand with belittling a man who clearly cares about this club more than most, clearly knows a lot about football, and has played a leading part in turning our awful youth dev around. 
 

But I would say phrases like ‘to suddenly go from radio co host’ and ‘lies and arrogance’ go beyond an objective critique of his job performance. I know you will disagree with that. 

But again, not particularly singling you out.  I’m really against all this personal and professional abuse of a man I think deserves a lot more respect, who loves the club and is obviously so proud of the youth pathway. But all that aside, a man that has done a good professional job in each role he’s been given in recent years and so has earned promotions  

Not really much more to say as I know I won’t change minds of those who have decided Tinns is some kind of cancer in the club. And I’m similarly unlikely to change my mind and suddenly start thinking that he is. 

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by the1stknowle

[TonyTonyTony]

8 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

 a man I think deserves a lot more respect, who loves the club and is obviously so proud of the youth pathway. But all that aside, a man that has done a good professional job in each role he’s been given in recent years and so has earned promotions

Agreed, and if he has done a good job at the academy he deserves credit. However, the day after Pearson is sacked he pops up in a much bigger role than the one announced in November. The TD role put him in charge of recruitment and the academy. 24 hours after NP is sacked he the new head coach reports to him and he sets the footballing philosophy for the entire club. Does that not smell a bit?

[SecretSam]

1 hour ago, Ian M said:

Tinnion...is our defacto new manager.

Well, it went swimmingly before

[Alessandro]

44 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

I’m not getting into an internet back and forth on the ‘point to where I said blah’. They never end well. 

In this case it won't end well for you because I haven't said what accused me of, as you've now realised. But let's leave that there now...
 

it’s not just you I’m picking up and agree you are more measured than the real name calling posts. And yes, I am annoyed by those as I don’t think they are properly justified yet apart from by hearsay and echo chamber. And I think they go hand in hand with belittling a man who clearly cares about this club more than most, clearly knows a lot about football, and has played a leading part in turning our awful youth dev around. 

Agreed he's done a great job in terms of the academy, along side others. Recruitment, along side others work, has had a better focus and is less scattergun - although the success of it, we are yet to fully see. Signs are good. The crown jewels however, future nest eggs if you like, are still the academy players at the moment...
 

But I would say phrases like ‘to suddenly go from radio co host’ and ‘lies and arrogance’ go beyond an objective critique of his job performance. I know you will disagree with that. 

The radio show was reference to fans perception of him. It is a fact that it was on RobinsTV that fans saw and heard from Tinnion the most, unless it was to do with the academy.

R.E Lies and Arrogance - referring to both JL and BT - I presume you haven't seen the 'Prince Andrew' esque interviews they did?

But again, not particularly singling you out.  I’m really against all this personal and professional abuse of a man I think deserves a lot more respect, who loves the club and is obviously so proud of the youth pathway. But all that aside, a man that has done a good professional job in each role he’s been given in recent years and so has earned promotions  

Yep again, agree, he has done an excellent job with the academy and I am more than happy with him staying there, or with his role in recruitment for now. The issue for me, and for others who've replied to you - is the recent promotion. And the manner of it.

We've gone from 2 very highly qualified and experienced CEO's - one left us for a very high level national job, the other with years of premier league experience, fired after 3 months. 

This job, key key job, CEO - is then seemingly not advertised and Tinnion is shuffled upwards/sideways into a morphed version of it - in a manner that smacks of Lansdown cronyism - has he earned a shot at the job? Maybe, but in any other world, in such a high level role, you advertise and interview other people and pick the best candidate. Then it's earned IMO.  But in this case, for me it's the potential to be Holden all over again, let's see how it works out this time. I'd love to be wrong.

Not really much more to say as I know I won’t change minds of those who have decided Tinns is some kind of cancer in the club. And I’m similarly unlikely to change my mind and suddenly start thinking that he is. 

Haven't seen anyone calling him a cancer at the club - the cronyism certainly is, but not Tinnion. I don't doubt his work ethic or love of BCFC and for that I hope it works out - but as I say, the manner of the reshuffles and his alleged involvement in Pearson's sacking leaves me with more questions than answers.

 

 - replied within

[the1stknowle]

45 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Agreed, and if he has done a good job at the academy he deserves credit. However, the day after Pearson is sacked he pops up in a much bigger role than the one announced in November. The TD role put him in charge of recruitment and the academy. 24 hours after NP is sacked he the new head coach reports to him and he sets the footballing philosophy for the entire club. Does that not smell a bit?

But smell of what? That this is all Tinnion pushing self advancement and power grab? As opposed to a genuine attempt to do what right for club, right or wrong. 

I guess time will tell. 
 

I don’t want to go all in on defence as I hate the decision and the comms around it is risible. Including Tins interview. That was a mistake unless the club gives him free rein to speak openly. 
it’s the personal abuse of a man I think deserves better I am against. And the rewriting of history that Tinns is a football know nothing by people who clearly know less about football than Tinns. 
 

But say decision is right and new coach does well and football improves, is Tins right? Or is he still a snake for those who think that? 

I would add that I think that is optimistic. And no matter what, the lack of credit and acknowledgment of what Nige has done to build foundations is indefensible. 
 

[Atticus]

2 hours ago, Ian M said:

Moving forward it seems Tinnion will assume responsibility for our style of play, recruitment/retention, culture of the club and our new HC will be responsible for preparing the players for matches and the technical area on matchdays. It seems that Tinnion will be assuming much of what Nigel did and is our defacto new manager.

This is completely unacceptable for me. 

 

Good luck to you that think otherwise.

Been there and done that with a . 

I'm not supporting the second version. 

[TonyTonyTony]

44 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

And no matter what, the lack of credit and acknowledgment of what Nige has done to build foundations is indefensible. 
 

Certainly agree with you on that. It shows a complete lack of class. Id have expected it from JL because he has zero EQ, but presumably BT and NP worked very closely over the last 24 months. To not give thanks / credit is piss poor.

[Crimson Crayola]

1 hour ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Agreed, and if he has done a good job at the academy he deserves credit. However, the day after Pearson is sacked he pops up in a much bigger role than the one announced in November. The TD role put him in charge of recruitment and the academy. 24 hours after NP is sacked he the new head coach reports to him and he sets the footballing philosophy for the entire club. Does that not smell a bit?

Perhaps it's a case of the Landsdown's finally realising its about the process. Steve's favourite clubs got to where they are with philosophies that span many years and in some cases multiple managers. With a figure like BT in his new role (which supposedly comes with less pressure and demands to succeed in the short term) such a philosophy could be established and bear fruit?
(I still think Nige was the best man to get us there mind).

[TonyTonyTony]

6 minutes ago, Just8 said:

Perhaps it's a case of the Landsdown's finally realising its about the process. Steve's favourite clubs got to where they are with philosophies that span many years and in some cases multiple managers. With a figure like BT in his new role (which supposedly comes with less pressure and demands to succeed in the short term) such a philosophy could be established and bear fruit?
(I still think Nige was the best man to get us there mind).

Well, the "process" of recruiting the replacement for LJ was a basket case. Lets hope they have learned. As for finally adopting a philosophy - its only taken 20 years. Lets see if they stick to it - i have my doubts. Lansdown has more flop flops on his CV than the CEO of Havaianas

[Crimson Crayola]

6 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Well, the "process" of recruiting the replacement for LJ was a basket case. Lets hope they have learned. As for finally adopting a philosophy - its only taken 20 years. Lets see if they stick to it - i have my doubts. Lansdown has more flop flops on his CV than the CEO of Havaianas

True, and perhaps I'm expecting too much of Steve. Either way, I hope BT has got some balls, because no-one else has been able to stop Steve from flip flopping.

[Philly The Kid]

Now added to the corporate matchday menu...
The Bristol City City Caesar Salad, Nigel Peason edition..... 

[Ska Junkie]

Purely from a devil's advocate view point, could it be that BT is being lined up as the fall guy in all this by those above?

Excellent at running the academy but being hung out to dry where the new role is concerned?

Just throwing it out there.

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

TBH I don't mind Tinnion being part of the head coach recruitment process. Can you imagine if Jon L and Gavin Marshall were the only people with input in that? Who'd the board by themselves appoint? The tea lady probably!  

As an advocate for a “football-man” somewhere between manager / head-coach and board, I’m perfectly happy with Tinnion.  When Holden was appointed I wondered if Tinnion could help provide the buffer between Dean and Ashton.  That wasn’t implemented.

I would be a hypocrite if I back-tracked on that set-up now.

It is clear from the meetings we (Harry, me etc) had with RG and SG (Gilhespy), which were pre-Tinnion’s promotion to Technical Director that Nige drove a lot of the football strategy, Gould drove the operational / football-finance / compliance strategy side of it…and I suspect there were some disagreements in there.  Sat in the middle but intrinsically linked was recruitment, requiring balance on both sides.  But Nige defined the types of player he wanted, RG facilitated the financial jigsaw, SG found the players (others chipped in with their recommendations too).  Tinnion’s input as Academy Director was sought too, for his General talent ID skills, but also the challenge on Academy Pathway.

What we now get to see is Tinnion perform, without Gould and Pearson driving it.  That’s a very big shift in resources!

He will of course be supported by Rawcliffe and Marshall instead of Gould and “new man” instead of Pearson.  But he is now the one under the spotlight.

It may be his time to shine.  We will get to find out

5 hours ago, the1stknowle said:

No words put in your mouth at all. I actually left out your worst words to give you benefit of the doubt. 
 

Re does that qualify him - if I do well in my job, I get promoted. And if I do well in that role, I get promoted again. That is what qualifies you for the next job up. And that is exactly what he’s done. He was not handed on a plate the technical director job. He’s progressed on merit. And now in role, time will tell if he’s qualified. But what would show him as unqualified is if he was too scared to voice his own football opinions. 

I wanted to to reply to @Red-Robbo’s post before yours, even though he posted after yours, because I wanted to set the scene of Tinnion’s role and involvement and his progression to TD first.

I don’t actually subscribe to your view that you do well you get promoted.  That very much assumes that the the job you’ve been promoted too requires the same skills and competencies.

Should the best salesman be promoted to sales manager for example.  Sales Manager is a different ball game.

My job is a Business Analyst.  If I was a permie, a promotion in the organisation I work would be Senior Business Analyst.  But that role isn’t about being a better, more skilled Business Analyst, it’s more of a management job, managing the Business Analyst, a different skillset.  It helps to have been a Business Analyst to understand the tasks, critique their work, etc, but it’s not necessarily the natural progression it appears.

What do you do btw?

Secondly, do you promote and then see if they’re qualified, as you suggest with Tinnion?  Or do you wait to see whether they’ve “got it” (the skills and competencies) first.  In some cases it’s fine to let someone learn on the job, but we can see why we often see people promoted outside of their level of competence.

[Glen hump]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As an advocate for a “football-man” somewhere between manager / head-coach and board, I’m perfectly happy with Tinnion.  When Holden was appointed I wondered if Tinnion could help provide the buffer between Dean and Ashton.  That wasn’t implemented.

I would be a hypocrite if I back-tracked on that set-up now.

It is clear from the meetings we (Harry, me etc) had with RG and SG (Gilhespy), which were pre-Tinnion’s promotion to Technical Director that Nige drove a lot of the football strategy, Gould drove the operational / football-finance / compliance strategy side of it…and I suspect there were some disagreements in there.  Sat in the middle but intrinsically linked was recruitment, requiring balance on both sides.  But Nige defined the types of player he wanted, RG facilitated the financial jigsaw, SG found the players (others chipped in with their recommendations too).  Tinnion’s input as Academy Director was sought too, for his General talent ID skills, but also the challenge on Academy Pathway.

What we now get to see is Tinnion perform, without Gould and Pearson driving it.  That’s a very big shift in resources!

He will of course be supported by Rawcliffe and Marshall instead of Gould and “new man” instead of Pearson.  But he is now the one under the spotlight.

It may be his time to shine.  We will get to find out

I wanted to to reply to @Red-Robbo’s post before yours, even though he posted after yours, because I wanted to set the scene of Tinnion’s role and involvement and his progression to TD first.

I don’t actually subscribe to your view that you do well you get promoted.  That very much assumes that the the job you’ve been promoted too requires the same skills and competencies.

Should the best salesman be promoted to sales manager for example.  Sales Manager is a different ball game.

My job is a Business Analyst.  If I was a permie, a promotion in the organisation I work would be Senior Business Analyst.  But that role isn’t about being a better, more skilled Business Analyst, it’s more of a management job, managing the Business Analyst, a different skillset.  It helps to have been a Business Analyst to understand the tasks, critique their work, etc, but it’s not necessarily the natural progression it appears.

What do you do btw?

Secondly, do you promote and then see if they’re qualified, as you suggest with Tinnion?  Or do you wait to see whether they’ve “got it” (the skills and competencies) first.  In some cases it’s fine to let someone learn on the job, but we can see why we often see people promoted outside of their level of competence.

Spot on Dave as usual.

[stortfordred]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

What we now get to see is Tinnion perform, without Gould and Pearson driving it.  That’s a very big shift in resources!

 

That's as big a shift, if not bigger, than the Scott/Semenyo shift in resources. We didn't replace those two with similar quality; what could lead us to believe that we will replace Gould and Pearson with better quality?

I'm less optimistic than you, Dave. I can't see a Postecoglou like Ange(l) coming to save our board.

[Red-Robbo]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As an advocate for a “football-man” somewhere between manager / head-coach and board, I’m perfectly happy with Tinnion.  When Holden was appointed I wondered if Tinnion could help provide the buffer between Dean and Ashton.  That wasn’t implemented.

I would be a hypocrite if I back-tracked on that set-up now.

It is clear from the meetings we (Harry, me etc) had with RG and SG (Gilhespy), which were pre-Tinnion’s promotion to Technical Director that Nige drove a lot of the football strategy, Gould drove the operational / football-finance / compliance strategy side of it…and I suspect there were some disagreements in there.  Sat in the middle but intrinsically linked was recruitment, requiring balance on both sides.  But Nige defined the types of player he wanted, RG facilitated the financial jigsaw, SG found the players (others chipped in with their recommendations too).  Tinnion’s input as Academy Director was sought too, for his General talent ID skills, but also the challenge on Academy Pathway.

What we now get to see is Tinnion perform, without Gould and Pearson driving it.  That’s a very big shift in resources!

He will of course be supported by Rawcliffe and Marshall instead of Gould and “new man” instead of Pearson.  But he is now the one under the spotlight.

It may be his time to shine.  We will get to find out

 

I guess when the new HC is appointed, we'll see just exactly how much of an ongoing role Brian actually has. I would imagine at some time a new CEO will also be appointed. Finding a decent one with football experience is probably tougher than finding prospective head coaches!

My post was to agree with your contentions - made earlier and eminently sensible - that we have at least one person who has some knowledge of the game sitting in on coaching/managerial appointments. Some Otibers have persuaded themselves that BT is the devil incarnate already, but even were that so, he has at least played a bit.  

Be nice if they sought some independent football advice as well.  Perhaps, had they done that a month or so ago, Nigel would still be here. 

[Superjack]

29 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What we now get to see is Tinnion perform, without Gould and Pearson driving it. 

It's a shame you didn't post this yesterday. 

Scariest ****ing thing I have ever heard in my life.

[GrahamC]

2 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

Purely from a devil's advocate view point, could it be that BT is being lined up as the fall guy in all this by those above?

Excellent at running the academy but being hung out to dry where the new role is concerned?

Just throwing it out there.

No.

He’s a major player in all this.

SL has checked out, so do you honestly think JL could be driving all this?

Seriously?

Tinnion has gone from the bloke who looks after the players on loan, to being in charge of recruitment to now effectively being our head of all football operations.

Does that sound like “being hung out to dry”?

More like climbing the career ladder until you effectively have the same power as Mark Ashton once did.

With Alexander gone we don’t even have a CEO to challenge him now, either.

[Mr Popodopolous]

22 minutes ago, stortfordred said:

That's as big a shift, if not bigger, than the Scott/Semenyo shift in resources. We didn't replace those two with similar quality; what could lead us to believe that we will replace Gould and Pearson with better quality?

I'm less optimistic than you, Dave. I can't see a Postecoglou like Ange(l) coming to save our board.

Here is a depressing prediction incoming.

We get a yes man, or a young rising coach but not a good one, the spending taps turn on and we push a bit but ultimately don't hit top 6.

We then end up where we were in 2021 but cannot attract a Gould and Pearson..FFP failed or relegation follows or both.

Rawcliffe, Tinnion and some rookie manager are basically tasked with seeing us fall into line with FFP while staying a Championship side.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[mozo]

48 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As an advocate for a “football-man” somewhere between manager / head-coach and board, I’m perfectly happy with Tinnion.  When Holden was appointed I wondered if Tinnion could help provide the buffer between Dean and Ashton.  That wasn’t implemented.

I would be a hypocrite if I back-tracked on that set-up now.

It is clear from the meetings we (Harry, me etc) had with RG and SG (Gilhespy), which were pre-Tinnion’s promotion to Technical Director that Nige drove a lot of the football strategy, Gould drove the operational / football-finance / compliance strategy side of it…and I suspect there were some disagreements in there.  Sat in the middle but intrinsically linked was recruitment, requiring balance on both sides.  But Nige defined the types of player he wanted, RG facilitated the financial jigsaw, SG found the players (others chipped in with their recommendations too).  Tinnion’s input as Academy Director was sought too, for his General talent ID skills, but also the challenge on Academy Pathway.

What we now get to see is Tinnion perform, without Gould and Pearson driving it.  That’s a very big shift in resources!

He will of course be supported by Rawcliffe and Marshall instead of Gould and “new man” instead of Pearson.  But he is now the one under the spotlight.

It may be his time to shine.  We will get to find out

I wanted to to reply to @Red-Robbo’s post before yours, even though he posted after yours, because I wanted to set the scene of Tinnion’s role and involvement and his progression to TD first.

I don’t actually subscribe to your view that you do well you get promoted.  That very much assumes that the the job you’ve been promoted too requires the same skills and competencies.

Should the best salesman be promoted to sales manager for example.  Sales Manager is a different ball game.

My job is a Business Analyst.  If I was a permie, a promotion in the organisation I work would be Senior Business Analyst.  But that role isn’t about being a better, more skilled Business Analyst, it’s more of a management job, managing the Business Analyst, a different skillset.  It helps to have been a Business Analyst to understand the tasks, critique their work, etc, but it’s not necessarily the natural progression it appears.

What do you do btw?

Secondly, do you promote and then see if they’re qualified, as you suggest with Tinnion?  Or do you wait to see whether they’ve “got it” (the skills and competencies) first.  In some cases it’s fine to let someone learn on the job, but we can see why we often see people promoted outside of their level of competence.

I actually suggested Tinnion as a DoF on this ere forum a while back and weirdly, he's almost there. 

His new role will bring heat. Let's see what he's got.

[Davefevs]

32 minutes ago, stortfordred said:

That's as big a shift, if not bigger, than the Scott/Semenyo shift in resources. We didn't replace those two with similar quality; what could lead us to believe that we will replace Gould and Pearson with better quality?

I'm less optimistic than you, Dave. I can't see a Postecoglou like Ange(l) coming to save our board.

I have neither optimism nor pessimism at the mo’…because I don’t know who is coming in.

I have open-minded naivety!

 

[Zuni]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I have neither optimism nor pessimism at the mo’…because I don’t know who is coming in.

I have open-minded naivety!

 

Wise words.

[Norn Iron]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

I have open-minded naivety!

 

I think I have that on vinyl!

Great album from a 70s prog band ....or should've been!

[mozo]

13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I have neither optimism nor pessimism at the mo’…because I don’t know who is coming in.

I have open-minded naivety!

 

I'm going for a healthy dose of pessimism based on the track record of our inglorious leaders.

[Superjack]

27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I have neither optimism nor pessimism at the mo’…because I don’t know who is coming in.

I have open-minded naivety!

 

There is no optimism or pessimism under the Lansdowns. 

There is just blind following, keeping your mouth shut and stumping up you hard earned... 

... or there is realism, and saying "sell up and **** off".