Curtis Fleming until the end of the season?

[A Darkwood Red]

47 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

To be fair I am in between. I don’t have faith in Lansdowns at all. I just didn’t believe in NP either. I come from the point of view that I am not happy with Lansdowns or NP but NP has left and Lansdowns unlikely to be going anytime soon. 
 

So with that in mind, I am excited to possibly change our fortunes with a new man at the helm. With the complete understanding that we are going around in circles. If we are successful it’ll most likely be a fluke or lucky. Maybe this is our lucky appointment. 

This echoes exactly where I find myself. Although I will add, it was obvious for a long time NP wasn't going to have his contract extended, so why would you go through the January window too? Sacking him now became the only option to give a new regime the last international break to work with the squad and understand what immediate signings he can identify for the new year.

Was it poorly executed? Absolutely. Was it obvious? Yes.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I think this is where I am though. We never seem to be able to match sides in a one off. Always played well but lacked at the end. Watching Blackburn destroy Norwich right now. Blackburn no PP no playoffs recently but on their day can match a lot of sides. I am sure someone can tell me but yea they do this and that.
 

No teams are a direct comparison but we just seem to lack. I am i. The belief tactically we were being let down. Yes we can use another couple forwards but most on here laughed at anyone who said we needed more attackers in the summer. Right sided left footed with some pace I begged for but got dismissed on here. Anyway, I got off topic. We aren’t very well drilled with the ball. Think we lack a coherent press. Once passed our forwards teams are in on us. 
 

We have recruited well enough too. Dickie was considered QPRs best player at one point. Derby gutted about Knight leaving. McRorie left European competition for us. Atkinson came with big reputation. Naismith off Luton player of the season. Mehmeti a star L1 player. It hasn’t been put together on a match day though. The squad has more to give even if not perfect is my point. When does BCFC get their magical playoff season? 

McCrorie could be excellent but he hasn't kicked a ball yet competitively.

Atkinson is great, but he's been injured for months!

Dickie has done well so far.

Naismith has been in and out with injuries. However must start when fit.

Knight has been impressive for us, problem is he isn't someone who will carry and the break the lines like Scott, clearly we can't replace to a like for like standard but we do need someone like that.

Would be nice if he could add a few goals, in his early days at Derby he scored a few.

Bell has edged out Mehmeti on the left so far, it happens. Different types of player too, I believe Bell is our top scorer?

Edited November 5, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

24 minutes ago, ORANGE500 said:

The performance against Leicester this season was shocking like frightened little boys. The facts are City finished 17th & 14th under Nigel Pearson the football was mediocre most of the time and given the way the team have played agaiin so far(even without the injuries) this seaon the likelihood would have been a similiar league finish.I wish him well but the e reaction over the last week is simply ridiculous and is not IMO about Nigel Pearson particularly as the reality does not suggest the last 3 years was anything but mediocre the perfect word to describe Nigel's tenure.

If you can't see the progress in the last 2 to 2.5 years while cutting the budget .trimming the squad size, reducing the average age and indeed improving the baseline performance and metrics..well.

We have had recurring injuries all season, only recently did it reach an absurd number but we started the season without McCrorie, Atkinson, Benarous and while he was still briefly with us Scott.

Weimann went off injured relatively early v Preston not that I thought it was the best shape necessarily.

Was Naismith injured too ahead of that one.

[JoeAman08]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

McCrorie could be excellent but he hasn't kicked a ball yet competitively.

Atkinson is great, but he's been injured for months!

Dickie has done well so far.

Naismith has been in and out with injuries. However must start when fit.

Knight has been impressive for us, problem is he isn't someone who will carry and the break the lines like Scott, clearly we can't replace to a like for like standard but we do need someone like that.

Would be nice if he could add a few goals, in his early days at Derby he scored a few.

Bell has edged out Mehmeti on the left so far, it happens. Different types of player too, I believe Bell is our top scorer?

I don’t argue a lack of luck with injuries but in terms of squad strength when fit it has potential for a playoff push with another forward or two and blending the right players together. I get NP had nowhere near a fit squad when sacked but I didn’t have faith when we were closer to full fitness. So the sacking makes sense to me. Even if as @A Darkwood Red said, was poorly executed.

For me, it makes sense to move on now and I have convinced myself this was always the plan when they gave him a 3 year deal. Get him in to balance the squad, see us through wage bill cut, let him be the figurehead while getting some of our academy acclimated. As I always said anyone would have had to do it. NP may have been the best man for that job. Not sure he was the man to take this club to the next level though. If it was always the plan then saving money for the next man makes sense. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I don’t argue a lack of luck with injuries but in terms of squad strength when fit it has potential for a playoff push with another forward or two and blending the right players together. I get NP had nowhere near a fit squad when sacked but I didn’t have faith when we were closer to full fitness. So the sacking makes sense to me. Even if as @A Darkwood Red said, was poorly executed.

For me, it makes sense to move on now and I have convinced myself this was always the plan when they gave him a 3 year deal. Get him in to balance the squad, see us through wage bill cut, let him be the figurehead while getting some of our academy acclimated. As I always said anyone would have had to do it. NP may have been the best man for that job. Not sure he was the man to take this club to the next level though. If it was always the plan then saving money for the next man makes sense. 

Makes sense?

He would have been about to play the bottom 2 with players potentially steadily returning from injury. Only makes sense if the club are looking for an excuse IMO.

The complexion would look very different then had we got 4-6 pts, going into the International break with more time for players who are absent to improve their fitness and potentially continue to bolster the squad.

Maybe if a managed handover at the end of the season but he has not been judged on a level playing field, until January 2023 and Semenyo sale due to circumstances, this summer the first real chance but even then somewhat restricted.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Superjack]

2 hours ago, Zuni said:

Or maybe not.

You're work is done. 

You can go back to whatever else it is that you do for BS now.

[Davefevs]

49 minutes ago, ORANGE500 said:

The home form has been pretty dreadful and we seldom compete against the teams at the top be it  Leicester this season or Burnley last season the tactic is park the bus and keep the score down.We do not and haven't looked like a team that are genuinely going to be in and around the top 6 during the last 3 years.

It really wasn’t the tactic.  And the final home game of last season against Burnley was a case in point.

Do you think we should’ve top-6 then?  Was that your mid-range expectation?  What were the ranges of your expectations?

19 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I think this is where I am though. We never seem to be able to match sides in a one off. Always played well but lacked at the end. Watching Blackburn destroy Norwich right now. Blackburn no PP no playoffs recently but on their day can match a lot of sides. I am sure someone can tell me but yea they do this and that.
 

No teams are a direct comparison but we just seem to lack. I am i. The belief tactically we were being let down. Yes we can use another couple forwards but most on here laughed at anyone who said we needed more attackers in the summer. Right sided left footed with some pace I begged for but got dismissed on here. Anyway, I got off topic. We aren’t very well drilled with the ball. Think we lack a coherent press. Once passed our forwards teams are in on us. 
 

We have recruited well enough too. Dickie was considered QPRs best player at one point. Derby gutted about Knight leaving. McRorie left European competition for us. Atkinson came with big reputation. Naismith off Luton player of the season. Mehmeti a star L1 player. It hasn’t been put together on a match day though. The squad has more to give even if not perfect is my point. When does BCFC get their magical playoff season? 

We have generally been a good barometer for the rest of the league in recent times.  Beating the teams below us, losing to the teams above us.

I think it is one sided to look at recruitment inbound without looking at who has gone at the other way, and the volumes of players gone.  Some tough decisions to go with a slimmer, cheaper squad, and then to stay in this division.  Especially when two of the players leaving in recent times were fundamental to how we played, Semenyo and Scott.

Don’t get me wrong I’ve never felt our squad in 21/22 and 22/23 should’ve ever gone down, and we never flirted with relegation either, which I think was a risk without Nige’s experience to build that slim, cheap squad.  As we well know lesser mortals () have taken us down in these situations.

But alas we are about to enter another “new era”.

[JoeAman08]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Makes sense?

He would have been about to play the bottom 2 with players potentially steadily returning from injury. Only makes sense if the club are looking for an excuse IMO.

The complexion would look very different then had we got 4-6 pts, going into the International break with more time for players who are absent to improve their fitness and potentially continue to bolster the squad.

It makes sense because he wasn’t ever staying past this season anyway. Sounds like everyone in the building knew it so why are we sad about it? They aren’t going to come out and say that was the case. Had we got 4-6 points is irrelevant. Been like that his whole tenure. If If If. Unlucky or not good enough doesn’t matter. Lower half table finishes and losing 5 out of 7 when a playoff battle is expected means you go especially when the owner is not convinced by you anyway. For me, it is a blessing. We weren’t going to hit playoffs under NP so might as well start anew now. 

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I don’t argue a lack of luck with injuries but in terms of squad strength when fit it has potential for a playoff push with another forward or two and blending the right players together. I get NP had nowhere near a fit squad when sacked but I didn’t have faith when we were closer to full fitness. So the sacking makes sense to me. Even if as @A Darkwood Red said, was poorly executed.

I think if Jon Lansdown had put out the sacking comms included things like you’ve done in very few words (), perhaps with a bit more “thanks Nige” included, people would’ve been much more accepting, even when in overall disagreement.  But he put out a crass message, straight out of his dad’s comms textbook.  And he’s incurred the rightful wrath as a result.

His interview with Joe Sims hardly helped when there was an opportunity to save a bit of face.

[JoeAman08]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It really wasn’t the tactic.  And the final home game of last season against Burnley was a case in point.

Do you think we should’ve top-6 then?  Was that your mid-range expectation?  What were the ranges of your expectations?

We have generally been a good barometer for the rest of the league in recent times.  Beating the teams below us, losing to the teams above us.

I think it is one sided to look at recruitment inbound without looking at who has gone at the other way, and the volumes of players gone.  Some tough decisions to go with a slimmer, cheaper squad, and then to stay in this division.  Especially when two of the players leaving in recent times were fundamental to how we played, Semenyo and Scott.

Don’t get me wrong I’ve never felt our squad in 21/22 and 22/23 should’ve ever gone down, and we never flirted with relegation either, which I think was a risk without Nige’s experience to build that slim, cheap squad.  As we well know lesser mortals () have taken us down in these situations.

But alas we are about to enter another “new era”.

Not sure the volume matters. Not when we had what? Over 30 players who had featured for us at some point? Not sure NP lost anyone he’d have wanted to keep. Yes depth took a slight hit at times. We have injuries like everyone else does. He never produced anything that would give the Lansdowns hope he could produce a playoff challenge. Never exceeded expectations. As you said always enough to not get relegated. 

[JoeAman08]

Just now, Davefevs said:

I think if Jon Lansdown had put out the sacking comms included things like you’ve done in very few words (), perhaps with a bit more “thanks Nige” included, people would’ve been much more accepting, even when in overall disagreement.  But he put out a crass message, straight out of his dad’s comms textbook.  And he’s incurred the rightful wrath as a result.

His interview with Joe Sims hardly helped when there was an opportunity to save a bit of face.

Won’t disagree there. Anytime the Lansdowns speak it usually does more harm than good. Even I have realised that since the “my club I’ll do what I want” comments. They also needlessly put pressure on anyone in the post by mentioning premier league promotion and playoffs. Their communication is atrocious. 

[marmite]

Who honestly feels that this club is Premiership in waiting. Yes, the ground looks nice but behind the scenes I think we are miles away. Nige was building slowly to give us the best base to advance. If Jon thinks we are ready this year to challenge, then I hope he's happy to back that up with cash. He will need it!

[Spike]

I'm actually not that bothered if Fleming is gone based on yesterday. I think he was like a deer in headlights as they had Bannan sent off and he didn't try to change anything up despite our tactics actually favouring Wednesday. 

Once Bannan was sent off I expected to see Fleming get word out to the team to stop playing the long and direct counter pass as Wednesday were obviously going to sit back and defend it. Instead, he didn't change anything and we continued to stick to our direct passing which nullified the extra man in attacking pushes as we just wasted the possession. I think he got the tactics all wrong and didn't know how to adapt to what was going on, almost like he expected everything to go as planned and when it didn't he didn't know how to react. 

With that man advantage and their strength in their defensive players we should have switched up to a possession style play where we used the extra man to make easier praying opinions and use that advantage to tire their players out and in turn create spaces to attack through as we move then about. This didn't happen until much later in the game and by then the constant direct balls and having to press to get the ball back actually tired some of our players out. 

I don't think Nigel would have reacted to that card the way Fleming did, I think it showed Flemings lack of experience in being the man to make a decision under pressure and it could have cost us points. 

I'm sure as a second man to Pearson he's more than adequate but without Pearson there I think that match proved he's not as tactically sharp as we need a man leading the team to be. 

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

I'm actually not that bothered if Fleming is gone based on yesterday. I think he was like a deer in headlights as they had Bannan sent off and he didn't try to change anything up despite our tactics actually favouring Wednesday. 

Once Bannan was sent off I expected to see Fleming get word out to the team to stop playing the long and direct counter pass as Wednesday were obviously going to sit back and defend it. Instead, he didn't change anything and we continued to stick to our direct passing which nullified the extra man in attacking pushes as we just wasted the possession. I think he got the tactics all wrong and didn't know how to adapt to what was going on, almost like he expected everything to go as planned and when it didn't he didn't know how to react. 

With that man advantage and their strength in their defensive players we should have switched up to a possession style play where we used the extra man to make easier praying opinions and use that advantage to tire their players out and in turn create spaces to attack through as we move then about. This didn't happen until much later in the game and by then the constant direct balls and having to press to get the ball back actually tired some of our players out. 

I don't think Nigel would have reacted to that card the way Fleming did, I think it showed Flemings lack of experience in being the man to make a decision under pressure and it could have cost us points. 

I'm sure as a second man to Pearson he's more than adequate but without Pearson there I think that match proved he's not as tactically sharp as we need a man leading the team to be. 

Except the 48 pass move that led to Bell missing an open goal……..don’t get me wrong our passing was sideways and backwards shit (and a minority still believe our squad has quality) when you had Bell and Mehmeti making good runs in behind but we did pass it a lot more second half.

[Spike]

Just now, Numero Uno said:

Except the 48 pass move that led to Bell missing an open goal……..don’t get me wrong our passing was sideways and backwards shit (and a minority still believe our squad has quality) when you had Bell and Mehmeti making good runs in behind but we did pass it a lot more second half.

And I did say that he didn't do it until a lot later in the game when we had spent time playing direct and tiring ourselves out effortlessly. 

It also reaffirms that a 42 year old man, sat at home with no coaching qualifications could identify the problem within 5 minutes of the red card but our assistant manager didn't act until we were approaching the half way point of the second half. 

I'm not saying I could manage, I'm saying that if someone with no experience can identify the problem you would certainly expect a professional in the coaching game to be able to and act quickly on it, which he didn't. It also shows that had he changed us up earlier we wouldn't have tired out so many players returning from injury and given ourselves more time to impact the game positively. 

We need a proactive coaches/management team, one that identifies issues in okay early allowing us to get on the front foot and start ahead of the opposition. I didn't see that yesterday, I saw a coach who was hesitent and wanted to stick to what he was comfortable with. 

[petehinton]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m hearing Curtis Fleming (phlegm) has gone this morning.  Dunno if true, and will be a real shame for the continuity he could’ve brought, even if short+term, e.g. til Xmas.

But I suspect this was really a “sack all 4” but because of the need to put a team out they kept him for an extra week.

Thanks Curtis, gonna miss those dulcet Irish tones in interview, gonna miss the booming “quality” on the training videos, and his infectious love of football.  A bloke who’d openly admit he wasn’t the most gifted top flight or international player but was a top-pro.

All the best in your next job.

Yesterday wasnt progressive or front footed enough. Ali Hines to take every minute of every session this week, even if a new man is appointed, he’ll have to just watch from the sidelines.  Didn’t you see the spurs u21 game???? God he’s good.  Expect 07/08 United at QPR next Saturday. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by petehinton

[George Rs]

50 minutes ago, Spike said:

And I did say that he didn't do it until a lot later in the game when we had spent time playing direct and tiring ourselves out effortlessly. 

It also reaffirms that a 42 year old man, sat at home with no coaching qualifications could identify the problem within 5 minutes of the red card but our assistant manager didn't act until we were approaching the half way point of the second half. 

I'm not saying I could manage, I'm saying that if someone with no experience can identify the problem you would certainly expect a professional in the coaching game to be able to and act quickly on it, which he didn't. It also shows that had he changed us up earlier we wouldn't have tired out so many players returning from injury and given ourselves more time to impact the game positively. 

We need a proactive coaches/management team, one that identifies issues in okay early allowing us to get on the front foot and start ahead of the opposition. I didn't see that yesterday, I saw a coach who was hesitent and wanted to stick to what he was comfortable with. 

Did you expect mourinho? Why would he change everything, clearly backed and supported the way Nige set up the team. Why would he as an interim manager make any vast changes when he knows he’s only going to be there for the short term anyway? 

Imo, especially second half we played some decent football with what we had available, it might’ve been slow in the build up but like someone else said the quick sideways passing and rotation was done effectively to open gaps which Conway/bell nearly utilised. 

The negatives where the player led mistakes which allowed sheff w to break fast and destroy any building momentum, what can flemming do about that? 

I’m not saying I want Flem to be our HC but that’s extremely harsh view imo. Good for you in identifying a flaw in the way we played, a lot harder to implement a change on the pitch at the time. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by George Rs

[robin_unreliant]

4 hours ago, Countryfile said:

Echo all of that, Curtis was sacked after the game yesterday.

Anything official confirming this yet?

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Anything official confirming this yet?

No, would have thought it will go hand in hand with the new coach announcement.

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Not sure the volume matters. Not when we had what? Over 30 players who had featured for us at some point? Not sure NP lost anyone he’d have wanted to keep. Yes depth took a slight hit at times. We have injuries like everyone else does. He never produced anything that would give the Lansdowns hope he could produce a playoff challenge. Never exceeded expectations. As you said always enough to not get relegated. 

Whilst resetting us.  And then this summer was the opportunity to back Nige and kick-on.  But “they” didn’t because they’d rather worry about a bit of criticism than what’s right for the good of the club.  If indeed the strategy is set, like they tell us, they should be continually improving the squad, irrespective of who is in charge, because the recruitment strategy is common.  Let that sink in.  If they genuinely didn’t want to extend his contract they should’ve moved him on in the summer.  But recruitment should be the same.  Just effing petty or amateur, or both.

Instead they’ve played a blame game, when I honestly don’t think JL (at least) knows who is actually to blame.  When pointing the finger you better be clear you’re pointing it at the right people.

I’m just expressing my opinion, not me trying to change your mind.

5 hours ago, Spike said:

I'm actually not that bothered if Fleming is gone based on yesterday. I think he was like a deer in headlights as they had Bannan sent off and he didn't try to change anything up despite our tactics actually favouring Wednesday. 

Once Bannan was sent off I expected to see Fleming get word out to the team to stop playing the long and direct counter pass as Wednesday were obviously going to sit back and defend it. Instead, he didn't change anything and we continued to stick to our direct passing which nullified the extra man in attacking pushes as we just wasted the possession. I think he got the tactics all wrong and didn't know how to adapt to what was going on, almost like he expected everything to go as planned and when it didn't he didn't know how to react. 

With that man advantage and their strength in their defensive players we should have switched up to a possession style play where we used the extra man to make easier praying opinions and use that advantage to tire their players out and in turn create spaces to attack through as we move then about. This didn't happen until much later in the game and by then the constant direct balls and having to press to get the ball back actually tired some of our players out. 

I don't think Nigel would have reacted to that card the way Fleming did, I think it showed Flemings lack of experience in being the man to make a decision under pressure and it could have cost us points. 

I'm sure as a second man to Pearson he's more than adequate but without Pearson there I think that match proved he's not as tactically sharp as we need a man leading the team to be. 

I don’t think we played direct at all, or at least not to the extent you are suggesting.  My view was we actually over-passed at times.  Tempo was lacking not pass-type imho.

I don’t think one game is enough to evaluate Curtis Fleming as a man in charge either.

[JoeAman08]

Just now, Davefevs said:

Whilst resetting us.  And then this summer was the opportunity to back Nige and kick-on.  But “they” didn’t because they’d rather worry about a bit of criticism than what’s right for the good of the club.  If indeed the strategy is set, like they tell us, they should be continually improving the squad, irrespective of who is in charge, because the recruitment strategy is common.  Let that sink in.  If they genuinely didn’t want to extend his contract they should’ve moved him on in the summer.  But recruitment should be the same.  Just effing petty or amateur, or both.

Instead they’ve played a blame game, when I honestly don’t think JL (at least) knows who is actually to blame.  When pointing the finger you better be clear you’re pointing it at the right people.

I’m just expressing my opinion, not me trying to change your mind.

I don’t think we played direct at all, or at least not to the extent you are suggesting.  My view was we actually over-passed at times.  Tempo was lacking not pass-type imho.

I don’t think one game is enough to evaluate Curtis Fleming as a man in charge either.

I agree it should have been the same recruitment regardless. City can’t make up their mind. Perhaps the break down was with OOC players coming up? Idk. I said end of last season if you aren’t going to give him a new deal then get rid. With you on that. Just happy to have a reset. For better or worse, the change is exciting for me as I didn’t enjoy the football under NP and the results weren’t stellar enough to forgive it, again for me. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think if Jon Lansdown had put out the sacking comms included things like you’ve done in very few words (), perhaps with a bit more “thanks Nige” included, people would’ve been much more accepting, even when in overall disagreement.  But he put out a crass message, straight out of his dad’s comms textbook.  And he’s incurred the rightful wrath as a result.

His interview with Joe Sims hardly helped when there was an opportunity to save a bit of face.

.

Edited November 5, 2023 by W-S-M Seagull

[bpexile]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m hearing Curtis Fleming (phlegm) has gone this morning.  Dunno if true, and will be a real shame for the continuity he could’ve brought, even if short+term, e.g. til Xmas.

But I suspect this was really a “sack all 4” but because of the need to put a team out they kept him for an extra week.

Thanks Curtis, gonna miss those dulcet Irish tones in interview, gonna miss the booming “quality” on the training videos, and his infectious love of football.  A bloke who’d openly admit he wasn’t the most gifted top flight or international player but was a top-pro.

All the best in your next job.

It would appear from that news that SL has broken into his nest egg to pay off possibly the best manager & staff we've had at the club.

Such a pity he couldn't have backed Nige with that money 

[Redhed123]

23 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I think this is where I am though. We never seem to be able to match sides in a one off. Always played well but lacked at the end. Watching Blackburn destroy Norwich right now. Blackburn no PP no playoffs recently but on their day can match a lot of sides. I am sure someone can tell me but yea they do this and that.
 

No teams are a direct comparison but we just seem to lack. I am i. The belief tactically we were being let down. Yes we can use another couple forwards but most on here laughed at anyone who said we needed more attackers in the summer. Right sided left footed with some pace I begged for but got dismissed on here. Anyway, I got off topic. We aren’t very well drilled with the ball. Think we lack a coherent press. Once passed our forwards teams are in on us. 
 

We have recruited well enough too. Dickie was considered QPRs best player at one point. Derby gutted about Knight leaving. McRorie left European competition for us. Atkinson came with big reputation. Naismith off Luton player of the season. Mehmeti a star L1 player. It hasn’t been put together on a match day though. The squad has more to give even if not perfect is my point. When does BCFC get their magical playoff season? 

This season!