Liam Manning - CONFIRMED NEW HEAD COACH

[Numero Uno]

46 minutes ago, Jose said:

No. Hence the question of what was actually said?

@Numero Uno If we don’t aim for the play offs, what’s the actual point? Don’t get me wrong I don’t expect it, but bar three or four teams I think most are very competitive. I think Nige team beats QPR, and with all our injury issues that would if put us two points off them? 
 

None of this is a dig at LM by the way. I’m fully behind him. Just a strange comment to say it’s not the aim. ( If he in fact did say that, I missed it) 

Managers and players aim to win every game and if you achieve your aim enough times then, of course, you can get to the play-offs. Manning will be no different however a particular poster, not you, twists his words due to being unable to get over their disappointment of what happened to Nige. However, aims and expectations aren't necessarily the same thing as you actually confirm yourself above. All Manning is doing, that I can see, is tempering EXPECTATION. That doesn't mean he is not aiming to win enough games that mean we reach the offs.

If you were Manning knowing the way the wind is blowing over the Pearson sacking would you make a daft statement on a major radio station confirming that we're all aboard HMS Piss The League? I sure as hell wouldn't when I look at the lack of depth in our squad (one proven goalkeeper, several still out injured for weeks, more teenagers than the local Sixth Form College etc. etc.).

To me it doesn't matter what Lansdown and Tinnion said, in terms of how I judge the new set-up, because they were talking absolute shite in an attempt to justify an equally shite decision as far as I'm concerned. I look at our squad and we would need a VERY fair wind with pretty much no more injuries this season OR a total loosening of the purse strings in order to even get near play-off contention (notwithstanding the fact that if the purse strings are loosened it merely drives the final nail into the "Pearson wasn't released for footballing reasons" coffin!!).

If Tinnion and the Chairman get it wrong then guess who I will be holding accountable............................the Chairman is obviously going nowhere and there's nothing we can do about that so as far as I'm concerned if we don't even get close to our "aims" this season then it's Tinnion who should be fired right out of it for me. He's made the bed.................

[One Team]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

Given all the moans I’m seeing who is going to stick their head above the parapet and say that our current squad is promotion chasing quality?

Forget what Laurel and ******* Hardy said who on here having seen us play this season genuinely thinks we’re a top 6 outfit? Fair play if you do but you haven’t been watching the same squad as I have that’s for sure.

Nobody in their right mind, with our squad, would guarantee or even suggest a play off push. Each one of the strongest sides we’ve played so far has BEATEN us. What does that tell you?

Well indeed. The way I always look at this is to go through the squad and assess which of them would get in Leicester’s, Ipswich’s, Leeds’ etc sides. 

Most would probably think very few, if any. 

[Numero Uno]

4 minutes ago, One Team said:

Well indeed. The way I always look at this is to go through the squad and assess which of them would get in Leicester’s, Ipswich’s, Leeds’ etc sides. 

Most would probably think very few, if any. 

Think you've hit the nail on the head!! Vyner, Pring, Conway and Dickie, possibly Knight too, might be squad players then what?

Edited November 16, 2023 by Numero Uno

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, One Team said:

Well indeed. The way I always look at this is to go through the squad and assess which of them would get in Leicester’s, Ipswich’s, Leeds’ etc sides. 

Most would probably think very few, if any. 

 

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

Think you've hit the nail on the head!! Vyner, Pring, Conway and Dickie, possibly Knight too, might be squad players then what?

Top 3, top 4 are way away albeit I don't see that Ipswich have a particularly amazing squad. Solid squad and very free of injuries to date.

What about the next batch, 5th downwards..could a mostly it squad be in the race at least for one of those 2 places.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Given all the moans I’m seeing who is going to stick their head above the parapet and say that our current squad is promotion chasing quality?

Forget what Laurel and ******* Hardy said who on here having seen us play this season genuinely thinks we’re a top 6 outfit? Fair play if you do but you haven’t been watching the same squad as I have that’s for sure.

Nobody in their right mind, with our squad, would guarantee or even suggest a play off push. Each one of the strongest sides we’ve played so far has BEATEN us. What does that tell you?

I went into the season believing we had a chance of challenging for the play offs. Injuries kind of influenced how I saw things. 

I don't think any of us have realised what a big miss McCrorie has been for us and we'll only realise once he is back. 

However what I saw this season was a team that was willing to run through brick walls. That team spirit can see you over achieve as we saw in 2007/8.

Even with all the injuries, we were (are) just outside the play offs. So is it as ridiculous as you suggest to think we could have got the play offs?

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

Now we're on page 100 can we be honest and admit that Pearson probably threatened to knock Jon's block off.  Jon pissed his pants was gutted he was worried about an old guy on crutches and fired him.  He's appointed Manning on the basis he thinks he can take him.

It's far more plausible than were a top 6 side.

[cidercity1987]

I don't think we are top 6 standard. But am I guilty as anyone of judging it based on our attack? 

We have a top two defence at the moment and if that continues it seems unlikely that we would miss the play offs?

Looking at past tables I cannot see a time where a top two defence doesn't make play offs. 

Just need to be an average attacking force instead of totally crap

Edited November 16, 2023 by cidercity1987

[And Its Smith]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Given all the moans I’m seeing who is going to stick their head above the parapet and say that our current squad is promotion chasing quality?

Forget what Laurel and ******* Hardy said who on here having seen us play this season genuinely thinks we’re a top 6 outfit? Fair play if you do but you haven’t been watching the same squad as I have that’s for sure.

Nobody in their right mind, with our squad, would guarantee or even suggest a play off push. Each one of the strongest sides we’ve played so far has BEATEN us. What does that tell you?

The beauty of football is you never really know.  Under Pearson we weren’t good enough for top six. Will we be under Manning?  Doubtful but nobody can know.  Sometimes a new manager can drastically change results….for better or worse.  Nobody had Ipswich as a top 3 side really. Their fans didn’t either.  On paper they are a mid table side at best.  

[Unan]

In a way, at least he didn’t give Nige the nest egg when he knew there was no change of his contract being extended?

[redsquirrel]

30 minutes ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

In a way, at least he didn’t give Nige the nest egg when he knew there was no change of his contract being extended?

do you think its possible that is the reason behind the ceo walking, i dont think there was a reason given. maybe he didnt want to be the one to tell nige why he couldnt have funds if scott sold, like he knew it was coming?

[W-S-M Seagull]

58 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

The beauty of football is you never really know.  Under Pearson we weren’t good enough for top six. Will we be under Manning?  Doubtful but nobody can know.  Sometimes a new manager can drastically change results….for better or worse.  Nobody had Ipswich as a top 3 side really. Their fans didn’t either.  On paper they are a mid table side at best.  

This season we've not been further than 5 points off the play offs. Most of the time it's been a lot closer and we've been in them. That is with a severely injury depleted squad. 

Coventry last season barely spent any time in the play offs before getting into them. Clubs like Blackburn, Millwall, Norwich and Watford all spent time in the play offs but failed to get in them.

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by W-S-M Seagull

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

This season we've not been further than 5 points off the play offs. Most of the time it's been a lot closer and we've been in them. That is with a severely injury depleted squad. 

Coventry last season barely spent any time in the play offs before getting into them. Clubs like Blackburn, Millwall, Norwich and Watford all spent time in the play offs but failed to get in them.

 

Look at performances. How many games have we played like a top six side in this season? Out of 16 games, generously 6.  Not enough 

[W-S-M Seagull]

40 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Look at performances. How many games have we played like a top six side in this season? Out of 16 games, generously 6.  Not enough 

What defines what a top 6 side should play and look like? 

Are we top 2? No. Top 4? No. 5th and 6th tho? 

1.5 points per game was enough to get Sunderland and Coventry in the play offs last season. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by W-S-M Seagull

[red panda]

4 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

What defines what a top 6 side should play and look like? 

Are we top 2? No. Top 4? No. 5th and 6th tho? 

1.5 points per game was enough to get Sunderland and Coventry in the play offs last season. 

Give it a rest Nige

[And Its Smith]

11 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

What defines what a top 6 side should play and look like? 

Are we top 2? No. Top 4? No. 5th and 6th tho? 

1.5 points per game was enough to get Sunderland and Coventry in the play offs last season. 

You’re still talking points. Games can swing on little things but to finish top 6 you will have to have played pretty well over the course of a season. So far we haven’t. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

33 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

You’re still talking points. Games can swing on little things but to finish top 6 you will have to have played pretty well over the course of a season. So far we haven’t. 

Are you a footballing purest? Because if you are, the Championship isn't the league for you. 

Boro after 16 games last season were on 17 points and Coventry and Sunderland 20. So at this stage last season, 3 of the 4 eventual play off teams were on less points than we currently are. Without looking into it, I'd hazard a guess they didn't play particularly well up to this point. 

Teams that finish 5th and 6th don't usually play well over the entire season. If they did, they'd finish higher. 

We finished 3 wins and a draw off of the play offs last season. 

Have we played well this season? In parts yes. Have we played badly? I'd argue no. Our application has been pretty consistent. 

 

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Are you a footballing purest? Because if you are, the Championship isn't the league for you. 

Boro after 16 games last season were on 17 points and Coventry and Sunderland 20. So at this stage last season, 3 of the 4 eventual play off teams were on less points than we currently are. Without looking into it, I'd hazard a guess they didn't play particularly well up to this point. 

Teams that finish 5th and 6th don't usually play well over the entire season. If they did, they'd finish higher. 

We finished 3 wins and a draw off of the play offs last season. 

Have we played well this season? In parts yes. Have we played badly? I'd argue no. Our application has been pretty consistent. 

 

I tend to agree, one or more of the Champ playoff teams will likely be inconsistent, just the nature of the league.

You need to get 10 (9.5)points per 6 games to achieve the 15 year average of 73 points.

Personally I think that had we steered clear of injuries, and / or invested a bit of the Alex Scott money, and not left a one or two points out there, then we be closer to the mix than 5 points off.  We’d think differently.  As it’s happened, we are on 22 from 16 and 4 points off of 6.

But the squad is thin, it’s exposed by injuries, we didn’t use the Alex Scott money and we are imho short of being a top-6 side.

For me, we wasted some of that opportunity with Nige as manager.

The question becomes what will they do for LM in January if we are still in a similar position.

There are 10-games before the window opens and we can sign a player to play (1st Jan v Millwall is too soon).  That will be 26 games, and at current rates will be 36 points.  The team in 6th will be on 42, 6 points ahead.

Of course we could be closer, we could be further adrift.  There are three further league games whilst the window is open, possibly only two if we get through the 3rd round of the FA Cup (or our opponents on 4th round day are otherwise engaged).

It still feels a bit churlish to have not backed Nige, whether they were planning to extend his contract or not.  The recruitment policy should be pretty much “manager agnostic”, and recruitment is generally improving, so why hamper the football club’s (the manager should be irrelevant) quest for PL football.

Poor decision making in August / summer window (or March if you fully believe the back-story).

Why?

[ashton_fan]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I tend to agree, one or more of the Champ playoff teams will likely be inconsistent, just the nature of the league.

You need to get 10 (9.5)points per 6 games to achieve the 15 year average of 73 points.

Personally I think that had we steered clear of injuries, and / or invested a bit of the Alex Scott money, and not left a one or two points out there, then we be closer to the mix than 5 points off.  We’d think differently.  As it’s happened, we are on 22 from 16 and 4 points off of 6.

But the squad is thin, it’s exposed by injuries, we didn’t use the Alex Scott money and we are imho short of being a top-6 side.

For me, we wasted some of that opportunity with Nige as manager.

The question becomes what will they do for LM in January if we are still in a similar position.

There are 10-games before the window opens and we can sign a player to play (1st Jan v Millwall is too soon).  That will be 26 games, and at current rates will be 36 points.  The team in 6th will be on 42, 6 points ahead.

Of course we could be closer, we could be further adrift.  There are three further league games whilst the window is open, possibly only two if we get through the 3rd round of the FA Cup (or our opponents on 4th round day are otherwise engaged).

It still feels a bit churlish to have not backed Nige, whether they were planning to extend his contract or not.  The recruitment policy should be pretty much “manager agnostic”, and recruitment is generally improving, so why hamper the football club’s (the manager should be irrelevant) quest for PL football.

Poor decision making in August / summer window (or March if you fully believe the back-story).

Why?

I thought we were told (by JL) that Scott money paid for our early summer signings in anticipation of him leaving at some point during the window? Also we don't know how much money we have received up front for the transfer, in another thread it was estimated to be as low as £5m? I guess we'll never know for sure?

[And Its Smith]

6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Are you a footballing purest? Because if you are, the Championship isn't the league for you. 

Boro after 16 games last season were on 17 points and Coventry and Sunderland 20. So at this stage last season, 3 of the 4 eventual play off teams were on less points than we currently are. Without looking into it, I'd hazard a guess they didn't play particularly well up to this point. 

Teams that finish 5th and 6th don't usually play well over the entire season. If they did, they'd finish higher. 

We finished 3 wins and a draw off of the play offs last season. 

Have we played well this season? In parts yes. Have we played badly? I'd argue no. Our application has been pretty consistent. 

 

Interesting you pick Boro out as an example who changed their manager to achieve the play offs.  Coventry had the shocking start with lots of issues at the time.  Not sure if you’ve seen every game but if you have I don’t know how you can say we haven’t played badly at times.  

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Interesting you pick Boro out as an example who changed their manager to achieve the play offs.  Coventry had the shocking start with lots of issues at the time.  Not sure if you’ve seen every game but if you have I don’t know how you can say we haven’t played badly at times.  

But my point still stands that they didn't play well over the season. Same with Coventry. I watched a lot of them due to having quite a few friends who are Coventry fans and they didn't play particularly well. They just had that momentum, a top striker and that team work ethic. 

I'd be interested to know what games you think we played badly in? 

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

I thought we were told (by JL) that Scott money paid for our early summer signings in anticipation of him leaving at some point during the window? Also we don't know how much money we have received up front for the transfer, in another thread it was estimated to be as low as £5m? I guess we'll never know for sure?

Depends how genuine you think the back story was from PA on SOTC and then JL recently?  And even if you do “buy it”, why was the budget set so low, other than SL’s Cashflow risk mitigation.  Then counter that versus Tins Plan A and Plan B comments, and then Nige suddenly coming out with “top of our budget” lines!

If SL wants to run his football club with no real cashflow commitments and as close to no losses (because of player sales), that is totally up to him.  In some ways I’m in favour.  If he also wants to achieve promotion and set that as the expectation for fans too, then we need a far better idea of the strategy than what we’ve been given, because it’s been terribly communicated, if communicated at all…and out of kilter with expectations set.

As per my post above, at this point it feels like the summer decisions were cutting off his nose (City) to spite its face (promotion tilt).

The cynic in me says he did that because of Nigel Pearson.  You can decide whether that’s because they didn’t want to offer him a new contract, whether they didn’t like the way he called them out, whether his illness, etc or combinations of them all.

By the end of the January window we will probably have our answers.

++++++++

If I was going to the fans forum I’d be framing a question around this and directing it to JL and GM.

I’d be listing the players who left last season as OOC, TK, HM, etc, the players sold, versus the players brought in, and asking them to justify a) the budget and b) top-ten budget claims too.

I feel as fans we are being let down.

++++++++

In the past I’ve joked that this is the Bristol City version of Trading Places, SL and MA as Don Ameche and Ralph Bellamy, LJ as Eddie Murphy, and Cotts as Dan Akroyd, for a $1 bet that LJ could do the job.  I just hope this isn’t the re-make! SL is still playing Don Ameche, but JL is Ralph Bellamy, LM is Eddie Murphy and Nige is Dan Akroyd.  I guess for a number of here, Tins is playing Jamie Lee-Curtis’s breasts!

Don’t get me wrong I want LM to succeed I just think the club have gone about it very badly.

[Silvio Dante]

32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

In the past I’ve joked that this is the Bristol City version of Trading Places, SL and MA as Don Ameche and Ralph Bellamy, LJ as Eddie Murphy, and Cotts as Dan Akroyd, for a $1 bet that LJ could do the job.  I just hope this isn’t the re-make! SL is still playing Don Ameche, but JL is Ralph Bellamy, LM is Eddie Murphy and Nige is Dan Akroyd.  I guess for a number of here, Tins is playing Jamie Lee-Curtis’s breasts!

 

 

 

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

But my point still stands that they didn't play well over the season. Same with Coventry. I watched a lot of them due to having quite a few friends who are Coventry fans and they didn't play particularly well. They just had that momentum, a top striker and that team work ethic. 

I'd be interested to know what games you think we played badly in? 

Birmingham, Stoke, Rotherham, QPR, Ipswich, Sheffield Wednesday.   Been pretty poor in those 7 games. Played well in 3-4 games and then okay in the rest. Not exactly play off form for me. 

[Clutton Caveman]

21 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This is where a football club will not be transparent, nor will they likely have true objectives and measures for those objectives.

It frustrates me.

The aim is promotion…yep, nice.  But what are the measures of success against that?  What constitutes Manning doing “okay” and retaining his job?  It sure ain’t “promotion”.  JL has already said something to that affect.

But of course if he comes out and says we want Liam to push us into the top-half and impose our style…then the first bit contradicts why they got rid of Pearson.  The style bit is subjective of course.

I think the Bournemouth owners wanted to change their style. Bet they wish they hadn't sacked the manager now.

[W-S-M Seagull]

34 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Birmingham, Stoke, Rotherham, QPR, Ipswich, Sheffield Wednesday.   Been pretty poor in those 7 games. Played well in 3-4 games and then okay in the rest. Not exactly play off form for me. 

I think it's unrealistic to expect a team challenging for the lower play off spots to play well every week. 

I'm not sure any of those games you've mentioned we can be described as playing badly. Bar QPR the one we did play badly, vs Coventry you've not mentioned. Ipswich I thought was quite an impressive performance.

I just don't understand what play off form means to you? 

 

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I think it's unrealistic to expect a team challenging for the lower play off spots to play well every week. 

I'm not sure any of those games you've mentioned we can be described as playing badly. Bar QPR the one we did play badly, vs Coventry you've not mentioned. Ipswich I thought was quite an impressive performance.

I just don't understand what play off form means to you? 

 

I think I got Ipswich and Coventry mixed up!  Play off form (as in performances) certainly doesn’t mean playing badly for 6 games out of 16. We clearly are never going to agree on what constitutes playing badly.  If you watched the Rotherham game and thought we did okay then I’m astounded!

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

If you watched the Rotherham game and thought we did okay then I’m astounded!

Just adding to the debate that sometimes it can be useful to look at City’s performance relative to the opposition on the day.

E.g. We weren’t good v Rotherham, but “our bad” was better than “their bad”.  In the same way we played well in parts v Ipswich but not quite good enough against their well.

If that makes sense?

There will be games where both teams “slug” it out in a game lacking in quality, and the opposite too where both teams play well.

Just another way of looking at it…and it’s all subjective anyway.

[And Its Smith]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Just adding to the debate that sometimes it can be useful to look at City’s performance relative to the opposition on the day.

E.g. We weren’t good v Rotherham, but “our bad” was better than “their bad”.  In the same way we played well in parts v Ipswich but not quite good enough against their well.

If that makes sense?

There will be games where both teams “slug” it out in a game lacking in quality, and the opposite too where both teams play well.

Just another way of looking at it…and it’s all subjective anyway.

I don’t think one can excuse a performance like that just because the opposition was awful.  We could barely string 3 passes together 

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I don’t think one can excuse a performance like that just because the opposition was awful.  We could barely string 3 passes together 

Yet we’ve seen that sometimes there is cause and effect, opposition playing frantically with and without the ball, etc.  

Its not an excuse per se, just that different opponents mean different types of games.

 

[Numero Uno]

17 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

The beauty of football is you never really know.  Under Pearson we weren’t good enough for top six. Will we be under Manning?  Doubtful but nobody can know.  Sometimes a new manager can drastically change results….for better or worse.  Nobody had Ipswich as a top 3 side really. Their fans didn’t either.  On paper they are a mid table side at best.  

Not arguing with that and like you say Manning could take us on run we aren’t expecting BUT if Manning came out and said he “expected” a top 6 finish I would judge him the same level of delusion as the two running it.