Chris Hogg on Sound of The City 6:15pm today (13/11/23)

[exAtyeoMax]

21 minutes ago, RedRock said:

I really liked Nige. Loved his approach and ‘buy in’ to us, the fact he cleansed the Club and helped make/save the Club a fortune by his management of younger players. At the same time he kept us in the division, comfortably, while we were ‘transitioning’. 

I also ‘get’ that he didn’t suffer fools - as determined by himself - gladly so would have been a challenge to manage for some, and made some mistakes on transfers, subs and tactics. I also see that progress was slow, entertainment value was depressingly scarce and the old chestnut, our massive injury list, had raised its ugly head again.   

The hierarchy, who bravely stuck by Nige when many were calling for his head last Winter, have made an equally brave call now. 

This new management team won’t be perfect either. It seems though now we have a united, not divided, management/hierarchy team, a likely fresh approach on the pitch and all trying to deliver success.

May be, just may be, if we all start pulling in the same direction we may get somewhere. While it may be difficult, given our respect for Nige, we need to get behind this new regime. It’s going to take a while to be comfortable with ‘Manning’s Red Army’ but as with an ex-wife, there comes a time to move on. Analysing the body language and words, in micro-detail, of ‘the heirachy/management’ ain’t going to help. Let’s just see over the next 3 months what happens on the pitch. 
 

 

I’ve no problem with LM but JL and BT need to be held to account, as if it all goes tits up LM will get it in the neck from all sides. Plus they will need to get called out if they change the remit that they were so adamant about when they fired Nige

[Major Isewater]

12 hours ago, Ian M said:

Whilst I won’t think this was fair on Nige, I don’t plan to give the club shit for it as having made the decision to switch and lacking players to adapt to the desired style, it would be insane not to back him in January! 

Yep, no one in their right mind would not back the new promotion seeking head coach . 
 

 

[BCFC Rich]

9 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

He's shown he can build a side with significant investment. 

At Lommel he had a huge amount of money to spend at that level. 

At MK 18 players were brought in. I'm not sure how many were his signings in the summer but he signed 8 in January. 

At Oxford he brought in 12 players in the summer, a significant investment for them. 

When people talk about his career, they conveniently forget to mention the above information. 

There is nothing in his career which to me suggests he can work with what he has got. In fact when MK signed 20 players with him so say having little involvement in, he failed miserably at working with what he was given to work with. 

For the immediate future, he has to work with what he has got here. Now is the time for him to prove his coaching ability. 

A few quotes from an article interviewing fans from MK and Oxford about Manning and Hogg.

 

Quote

 

the coaching of him and his assistant Chris Hogg, in particular, in terms of bringing on players. And that’s not just young players, also those towards the end of their career: Billy Bodin, for example, who’s 31 and having his best season in an Oxford shirt; Marcus McGuane who’s in his mid-20s and his finally fulfilling his promise.

The only shift in perception from my point of view was that I associated Manning with playing a certain way, which is very possession-heavy. I think what we’ve now seen that maybe he was tasked with doing that at MK Dons, because he inherited a Russell Martin squad.

The football was still very good and attacking at Oxford but it was way more focused on transition rather than possession-based, so we have often been happy to drop in a bit and play on the break, which we’re very good at.

Working with individuals in improving their game is a huge part of what he does; he’s very, very good at bringing youngsters on. 

he’ll always look to the academy first before going elsewhere and buying a player which, for a fan, is certainly quite refreshing to hear because we all like to see academy players given a chance.

 

McGuane is the main one, who obviously had a huge reputation as a youngster; Arsenal, Barcelona, Nottingham Forest and he looked really good on loan, raw but good, but then for two seasons he really flattered to deceive. You could see the talent was there but was partly because he was playing in the wrong position, as a holding midfielder by Karl Robinson who rated his ball-carrying ability.

But under Manning he’s genuinely gone to being a player who most fans would agree has probably been our best individual this season.

Bodin is another one, who you wouldn’t expect to improve at this stage of his career, but he’s adapted his game and looks a completely different player to last season

Elliott Moore is having his best season by miles, and you just get the feeling that all these players are being individually worked on.

I interviewed Chris Hogg recently and he said that he felt, during his career, he wasn’t really worked on individually once he became a first-team player and that’s something he’s looked to rectify in his coaching career. And you can definitely see that.

 

To say there is nothing in his career to suggest he can be a success is to ignore the fans who saw what he did. No one is saying he is guaranteed to be a success here, but he deserves the chance and it's better to give him that. I know you'll say you want him to succeed, but you're obviously pretty determined to believe he won't. Why not wait a few games and see how things are then? 

Edited November 15, 2023 by BCFC Rich

[CityReds]

There’s obviously way more to NP leaving than just results than we will ever know but I think it’s clear that the board, with what’s been put in since last Jan didn’t see the upturn they were expecting. He’s done great things but bottom line the results weren’t there.

The team looked a bit lost because they were playing a brand new system they’d never played before and nothing but time with them will speed that up. 
 

Tough run into Christmas and I think we can’t expect too much before then.

[Galley is our king]

32 minutes ago, CityReds said:

There’s obviously way more to NP leaving than just results than we will ever know but I think it’s clear that the board, with what’s been put in since last Jan didn’t see the upturn they were expecting. He’s done great things but bottom line the results weren’t there.

The team looked a bit lost because they were playing a brand new system they’d never played before and nothing but time with them will speed that up. 
 

Tough run into Christmas and I think we can’t expect too much before then.

Wonderful. Joined ONE hour ago and this is your FIRST post?

If I didn't know better......

[CityReds]

19 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Wonderful. Joined ONE hour ago and this is your FIRST post?

If I didn't know better......

Not sure what you’re alluding to, have I said anything out of turn? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, CityReds said:

There’s obviously way more to NP leaving than just results than we will ever know but I think it’s clear that the board, with what’s been put in since last Jan didn’t see the upturn they were expecting. He’s done great things but bottom line the results weren’t there.

The team looked a bit lost because they were playing a brand new system they’d never played before and nothing but time with them will speed that up. 
 

Tough run into Christmas and I think we can’t expect too much before then.

Have you a points expectation from the next 4 games say?

From the prior 5 game block last year we got 8. 2 wins, 2 draws and a loss.

Likewise going into QPR away we were gaining points at 1.4 per game.

Therefore 7-8, perhaps 9 might habe been a reasonable target. So far it is 1 from 1 game. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[downendcity]

29 minutes ago, CityReds said:

Not sure what you’re alluding to, have I said anything out of turn? 

It's not what you said, it's what you failed to say.

You didn't mention that SL is the devil incarnate, that Brian Tinnion is SL's High Priest of Darkness  and the real power behind the throne, that Jon Lansdown is having a crayoning by numbers kit for Christmas ( with the numbers in extra large print,) that Nigel Pearson is a saint and should have Ashton Gate stadium named after him and be given the Freedom of the City of Bristol, that Liam Manning will be deemed a failure whatever he achieves ( because he's not Nigel Pearson, who should still be in the job) and  that you don't like the look of Chris Hogg.

Oh, and you failed to mention that SL will dip into his nest egg in January!

I think that covers what you should have said!

These comments were made with my tongue firmly in my cheek, but it does seem that there is a danger of a cancel culture developing, whereby anyone whose views/opinions don't align with those who are determined to see SL out of the club then you are branded an agent of Bristol Sport and therefore an outcast and not a true City fan.

[Chivs]

13 minutes ago, downendcity said:

It's not what you said, it's what you failed to say.

You didn't mention that SL is the devil incarnate, that Brian Tinnion is SL's High Priest of Darkness  and the real power behind the throne, that Jon Lansdown is having a crayoning by numbers kit for Christmas ( with the numbers in extra large print,) that Nigel Pearson Nige is a saint and should have Ashton Gate stadium named after him and be given the Freedom of the City of Bristol, that Liam Manning will be deemed a failure whatever he achieves ( because he's not Nigel Pearson Nige, who should still be in the job) and  that you don't like the look of Chris Hogg.

Oh, and you failed to mention that SL will dip into his nest egg in January!

I think that covers what you should have said!

These comments were made with my tongue firmly in my cheek, but it does seem that there is a danger of a cancel culture developing, whereby anyone whose views/opinions don't align with those who are determined to see SL out of the club then you are branded an agent of Bristol Sport and therefore an outcast and not a true City fan.

Fixed that for you.  Clearly a BS agent if you don't say "Nige"

[Numero Uno]

18 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Numerous injuries, still competitive and 8th at that point. As and when injuries reduced we may have found another gear.

If we are judging Manning by exactly the same constraints and criteria...time will tell.

I think it’s Lansdown and Tinnion who get judged by the criteria because we all know the criteria is bollocks. Manning didn’t set the criteria tbf. Unless he comes out and says “we’re gonna work wonders and shit miracles” it’s not his issue to a large extent.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Numero Uno said:

I think it’s Lansdown and Tinnion who get judged by the criteria because we all know the criteria is bollocks. Manning didn’t set the criteria tbf. Unless he comes out and says “we’re gonna work wonders and shit miracles” it’s not his issue to a large extent.

That is fair yeah.

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I think it’s Lansdown and Tinnion who get judged by the criteria because we all know the criteria is bollocks. Manning didn’t set the criteria tbf. Unless he comes out and says “we’re gonna work wonders and shit miracles” it’s not his issue to a large extent.

However during interview you'd expect that they said go him "our objective is to challange for promotion with the squad we have got because we think it is good enough, do you think you can deliver that objective? And if so, how? 

So you'd imagine he would have said yes. He's signed up to that objective. So why shouldn't he be judged on it?

[CityReds]

10 minutes ago, downendcity said:

It's not what you said, it's what you failed to say.

You didn't mention that SL is the devil incarnate, that Brian Tinnion is SL's High Priest of Darkness  and the real power behind the throne, that Jon Lansdown is having a crayoning by numbers kit for Christmas ( with the numbers in extra large print,) that Nigel Pearson is a saint and should have Ashton Gate stadium named after him and be given the Freedom of the City of Bristol, that Liam Manning will be deemed a failure whatever he achieves ( because he's not Nigel Pearson, who should still be in the job) and  that you don't like the look of Chris Hogg.

Oh, and you failed to mention that SL will dip into his nest egg in January!

I think that covers what you should have said!

These comments were made with my tongue firmly in my cheek, but it does seem that there is a danger of a cancel culture developing, whereby anyone whose views/opinions don't align with those who are determined to see SL out of the club then you are branded an agent of Bristol Sport and therefore an outcast and not a true City fan.

Ah got ya. Is it like Facebook where you have to answer the questions and unless you hit all the key words you’re rejected?

I was merely agreeing with a previous comment someone else has said and has been said before me but never mind 

 

 

[Numero Uno]

7 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I’ve no problem with LM but JL and BT need to be held to account, as if it all goes tits up LM will get it in the neck from all sides. Plus they will need to get called out if they change the remit that they were so adamant about when they fired Nige

Exactly this. You can see it in quite a lot of posts that some people are going to manifest their disappointment at Nige getting canned by having a pop at Manning and Hogg if things don’t turn out in line with expectations, there’s a post on here condemning Hogg after one interview for example. Exactly how the two people who are actually responsible probably guessed it might turn out…..

Unless he’s given a shed load of money to spend all Manning has to do for me is keep the improvement going. If we end up broadly where Nige would have taken us this season he’s done nothing wrong with the tools available. How that aligns with the noise from upstairs will be upstairs issue……or should be.

[Numero Uno]

8 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

However during interview you'd expect that they said go him "our objective is to challange for promotion with the squad we have got because we think it is good enough, do you think you can deliver that objective? And if so, how? 

So you'd imagine he would have said yes. He's signed up to that objective. So why shouldn't he be judged on it?

It’s a job interview and there will always be a degree of toeing the line. However you are guessing what was said tbh. It may have gone completely differently, particularly if the real reason to can Nige was more than football related.

I’m guessing now but Manning may have said I need the rest of this season to put my ideas into practice first and the circus might have accepted that.

What I won’t be doing is judging the new coaches on obviously silly criteria probably crafted on a Friday afternoon after seven pints of Stella. It is possible to be royally pissed off at the way Nige has been treated AND give the next guy a fair crack of the whip imo. Otherwise we hound them out and we rely on another cunning plan from the Baldrick twins.

[CityReds]

34 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Have you a points expectation from the next 4 games say?

From the prior 5 game block last year we got 8. 2 wins, 2 draws and a loss.

Likewise going into QPR away we were gaining points at 1.4 per game.

Therefore 7-8, perhaps 9 might habe been a reasonable target. So far it is 1 from 1 game. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.

That’s much deeper stat knowledge than I can admit to! I think 9 is ambitious but both Huddersfield and Norwich seem there for the taking and a point at home next would align with your estimates.

Is it unreasonable not to expect trees to be pulled up in the first month?

[CityReds]

3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It’s a job interview and there will always be a degree of toeing the line. However you are guessing what was said tbh. It may have gone completely differently, particularly if the real reason to can Nige was more than football related.

I’m guessing now but Manning may have said I need the rest of this season to put my ideas into practice first and the circus might have accepted that.

What I won’t be doing is judging the new coaches on obviously silly criteria probably crafted on a Friday afternoon after seven pints of Stella. It is possible to be royally pissed off at the way Nige has been treated AND give the next guy a fair crack of the whip imo. Otherwise we hound them out and we rely on another cunning plan from the Baldrick twins.

There was clearly no alignment between the top and the new coaches before these interviews but they have been very smart not to over commit a week into the job! Mannings next week will be telling perhaps. Or just another hello and welcome! 

[Numero Uno]

Just now, CityReds said:

There was clearly no alignment between the top and the new coaches before these interviews but they have been very smart not to over commit a week into the job! Mannings next week will be telling perhaps. Or just another hello and welcome! 

Manning would be daft to repeat what Tinnion and Lansdown said. I can’t believe he will be that stupid!!

[Davefevs]

53 minutes ago, downendcity said:

but it does seem that there is a danger of a cancel culture developing, whereby anyone whose views/opinions don't align with those who are determined to see SL out of the club then you are branded an agent of Bristol Sport and therefore an outcast and not a true City fan.

There is an element of that I agree.

There is a similar element happening the other way to an extent too.  It seems for some users (a very small number) that it is no longer allowed to like / quote agreement to someone else’s post if of a different opinion to theirs. It’s a bit double-standards imho.

I think the best thing to do is let everyone post how they like, as long as not offensive (report button available), and then as individuals we can interact as we please, e.g. enter debate, scroll on by, like / dislike posts, ignore user etc.

I know there’s been a decision made that has created divide, it’s still possible to use this forum “nicely”.

[Andy082005]

20 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest Andy, where do you reckon Nige would’ve had us finish?

And where do you think Manning will?

I don’t think Nige would have taken us any higher than the sort of position we finished last season. Maybe between 12th - 16th perhaps 

I just didn’t see any real season on season improvement. I think Nige had done as much as he could 

He did a great job in the circumstances. He instilled discipline and bought the club back together - but I genuinely don’t think he could take us up a notch and turn us into a top 6 team . We have average players who are crying out for a coach who can help them develop and improve. I think Nige had taken this squad as far as he could 

As for Manning - genuinely no idea. It would be a pure finger in the air guess as I don't know enough about the guy and his style to form an opinion on how our squad will adapt and hopefully develop 

If I had to take a wild guess - I would say bottom half. Maybe 12th to 16th but that’s because I think our players will struggle to adapt to his methods 

[bcfc01]

19 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Indeed. So let’s all hold them to account! 

 

9 hours ago, Kibs said:

How do you intend to do that, out of interest? 

Stamp his foot and scream and scream until he's sick ?

[Davefevs]

24 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

If I had to take a wild guess - I would say bottom half. Maybe 12th to 16th but that’s because I think our players will struggle to adapt to his methods 

Firstly, ta.

Secondly, interesting view, because he’s been chosen to be able to do exactly what you worry he won’t be able to do.  Not that it matters, because that’s your view…Tins and JL are the ones who are confident.

[Andy082005]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Firstly, ta.

Secondly, interesting view, because he’s been chosen to be able to do exactly what you worry he won’t be able to do.  Not that it matters, because that’s your view…Tins and JL are the ones who are confident.

I can understand people who are concerned he won’t be a success - but there are people who have already decided he won’t be 

People have come to this decision because they are blinkered by their views of JL and the way Pearson has been treated 

Draw a line under the plebs above - and let’s get behind the new bloke 

…..and if we are not top by Boxing Day. We can call for him to be sacked 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Andy082005

[exAtyeoMax]

3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

However during interview you'd expect that they said go him "our objective is to challange for promotion with the squad we have got because we think it is good enough, do you think you can deliver that objective? And if so, how? 

So you'd imagine he would have said yes. He's signed up to that objective. So why shouldn't he be judged on it?

it depends what they told him in the interview…management have been known to be economical with the truth…if JL & BT truly believe that the squad are much better than they really are, that's not LM's fault.

[RollsRoyce]

5 hours ago, CityReds said:

There’s obviously way more to NP leaving than just results than we will ever know but I think it’s clear that the board, with what’s been put in since last Jan didn’t see the upturn they were expecting. He’s done great things but bottom line the results weren’t there.

The team looked a bit lost because they were playing a brand new system they’d never played before and nothing but time with them will speed that up. 
 

Tough run into Christmas and I think we can’t expect too much before then.

I expect every game from now on to be a success. what is this ridiculous nonsense? Nige had us a few points off the playoffs with a huge injury crisis, with multiple players on the bench who had never played a league game in their lives. Despite the issue claimed of detraining, suddenly we have many first-team players back available. Mannnng has the tools He has to deliver now, not tomorrow. That is what the board demanded, why on earth are people changing the target? We changed, because we, well two people said we could be better. Now, not tomorrow.  

Manning has to get a promotion this year or he is a failure. He will be fired in the summer if he has not delivered. Lansdown and Tinnion set the rules. They fired all of the coaching team and the main medical man. They stated the reasons, but some people are now questioning that. They run the club, not the fans, they stated they feel promotion with the current squad is the aim. Manning needs to deliver. Zero excuses. 

I would have fired Tinnion, Lansdown, Gilesphy and all of Bristol Sport before Pearson, but my solution to getting to the Prem is very different to those amateurs. Interestingly, that solution may even have included someone like Manning. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Hierarchy have made a bit of a rod for their own back but injuries permitting, 7th-10th coupled with a genuine play-off push would still represent some progress.

Expenditure in Janaury and pressure will rise further.

[Shauntaylor85]

The board will find some excuse. If we finish 20th they will keep faith out of stubbornness, 3.5 years was crazy for a manager looking to prove himself. We only gave Nige a short term and Holden too initially. 

[Sheltons Army]

4 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

The board will find some excuse. If we finish 20th they will keep faith out of stubbornness, 3.5 years was crazy for a manager looking to prove himself. We only gave Nige a short term and Holden too initially. 

Very good point - Yet another sign of the Lansdowns flip flopping and inconsistently

The new 4 year (?) contract for LJ when we were in the midst of a horrific run , and when he clearly wasn’t any form of answer was the absolute beauty for me.

[CityReds]

14 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

The board will find some excuse. If we finish 20th they will keep faith out of stubbornness, 3.5 years was crazy for a manager looking to prove himself. We only gave Nige a short term and Holden too initially. 

Seems like there was a fear he’d go somewhere else so they jumped in first and signed him for as long as possible. That’s an expensive mistake financially if it doesn’t work out. 

[red panda]

11 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Hierarchy have made a bit of a rod for their own back but injuries permitting, 7th-10th coupled with a genuine play-off push would still represent some progress.

Expenditure in Janaury and pressure will rise further.

Agree with this, but not sure what else they could have said.  Perhaps a bit naive in not realising that some of things they said would be carved onto tablets of stone, never forgotten and taken absolutely literally by some fans.  Can you imagine what the reaction would have been had they sacked NP and then said "progress was too slow, the football wasn't great, so something needed to change. We're kind of hoping that Liam will do a bit better than Nigel and perhaps get us into the top half this season", which may be closer to what they really believe