Chris Hogg on Sound of The City 6:15pm today (13/11/23)

[ExiledAjax]

11 hours ago, chinapig said:

They unequivocally claimed we have a top 6 squad. So why would the top 6 not be the aim? Vague talk of progress means they can claim success in any way they choose.

You know, I was wondering whether anyone ever actually claimed that or if I (and everyone else) had misremembered. I went back and looked at the interviews and statements from the early days following Pearson's sacking.

Firstly JL's 2 minute "interview" on 31 October 2023.

Then key quote here is at 01:02 "...[we] ultimately made the decision [to sack Pearson] because we think the squad's good enough and I believe in it. If we didn't then why make a change? You'd just see see things through as they are, but the ultimate reason is I think we've got a really good squad here and and we've got a good chance at competing at the right end of the division this season..."

So he doesn't quite say the words "we have a top 6 squad" but that last line in particular near as means the same thing.

Then BT's longer 5 minute "interview" published the same day, 13 October 2023.

You don't have to wait long here. Barton opens with the question "Brian, John Lansdown's talked about the belief that you all have in the quality of this squad how confident are you that these players can compete at the top of the Championship?" Tinnion answers:

"I think everybody in the summer was happy with how we recruited, it's a squad that should be at the top end of the division..."

No debate there I don't think. Clearly says that this squad should be at the top end of the division.

There's then the ITV interview with GM from 3 November 2023.

https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2023-11-03/we-want-promotion-this-year-bristol-city-board-on-sacking-nigel-pearson

The video opens with Marshall saying "We had a three year plan with Nigel and we the objective for us including Nigel was to be at the top end, challenging at the top end of the table..."

He then says at 2:02 "The club is looking for a manager who we believe will get us to the top end of the Championship. We think we've got a great squad of players, a great fanbase, we've got great facilities. It's a puzzle that someone needs to solve and we're looking for someone who believes, and we believe, will get us into the Premier League."

The next question, at 02:29 is "And that [getting to the Premier League] is still the aim, for Bristol City this season, and for seasons moving forwards?"

GM answers "100% it's the aim for this season and we didn't  feel that we were going to get there unless we made a change and that's one of the drivers. We're less than a third of the way through the season and we feel that we're giving the next manager time to come in and make an impact and hopefully have us challenging towards the top end of the table. We believe this squad of players are very capable of doing that."

So he rambles a little bit, and answers it across several questions, but that final line is there for all to see. It's not quite as definite as BT's words but the hierarchy clearly think this squad is "very capable" of challenging "towards the top end".

Edited November 14, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Gert Mare]

12 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Whole thing sums up the shambles of events of the past month. Now we are ok to tread water and this will no doubt be another three year plan before the next….change wasn’t needed in football management, it was needed up the chain. 

 

12 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Nope. Our chairman and tech director believe this squad is top 6, that’s why we made the change now so that’s what we as fans need to hold them to. 

You’re not alone in your feelings towards what has happened in the last few weeks.

The squad was thin and unfortunately blighted by injuries, yet we were still competitive. We also never had a consistent spell of losing matches which was a good sign.

There was me thinking that NP might finally be given some money to show what he could do without his hands being tied and instead I hear rumours that he’s about to be given the bullet?! Shock was an understatement. When the reasons came out for his departure then the feeling was a mixture of ‘deluded / completely lost the plot’. That was it for me, I was done.

Haven’t watched a match since, but as my heart is with the club (not the owners) I’m staying on this forum and watching things unfold.

If Manning isn’t given any money to spend then I don’t think he has a hope in hell, but I think he will be given money to spend as he has been given a 3.5 year contract. Tactics are ok, but you need players to buy in ‘in their heads’. NP had the players bought in. Let’s see what happens.

My stomach is in knots. I feel like it’s only heading one way….straight down the Khazi!

[The Journalist]

9 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

You know, I was wondering whether anyone ever actually claimed that or if I (and everyone else had misremembered). I went back and looked at the interviews and statements from the early days following Pearson's sacking.

Firstly JL's 2 minute "interview" on 31 October 2023.

Then key quote here is at 01:02 "...[we] ultimately made the decision [to sack Pearson] because we think the squad's good enough and I believe in it. If we didn't then why make a change? You'd just see see things through as they are, but the ultimate reason is I think we've got a really good squad here and and we've got a good chance at competing at the right end of the division this season..."

So he doesn't quite say the words "we have a top 6 squad" but that last line in particular near as means the same thing.

Then BT's longer 5 minute "interview" published the same day, 13 October 2023.

You don't have to wait long here. Barton opens with the question "Brian, John Lansdown's talked about the belief that you all have in the quality of this squad how confident are you that these players can compete at the top of the Championship?" Tinnion answers:

"I think everybody in the summer was happy with how we recruited, it's a squad that should be at the top end of the division..."

No debate there I don't think. Clearly says that this squad should be at the top end of the division.

There's then the ITV interview with GM from 3 November 2023.

https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2023-11-03/we-want-promotion-this-year-bristol-city-board-on-sacking-nigel-pearson

The video opens with Marshall saying "We had a three year plan with Nigel and we the objective for us including Nigel was to be at the top end, challenging at the top end of the table..."

He then says at 2:02 "The club is looking for a manager who we believe will get us to the top end of the Championship. We think we've got a great squad of players, a great fanbase, we've got great facilities. It's a puzzle that someone needs to solve and we're looking for someone who believes, and we believe, will get us into the Premier League."

The next question, at 02:29 is "And that [getting to the Premier League] is still the aim, for Bristol City this season, and for seasons moving forwards?"

GM answers "100% it's the aim for this season and we didn't  feel that we were going to get there unless we made a change and that's one of the drivers. We're less than a third of the way through the season and we feel that we're giving the next manager time to come in and make an impact and hopefully have us challenging towards the top end of the table. We believe this squad of players are very capable of doing that."

So he rambles a little bit, and answers it across several questions, but that final line is there for all to see. It's not quite as definite as BT's words but the hierarchy clearly think this squad is "very capable" of challenging "towards the top end".

This almost needs pinning at the top of the forum as a reminder.

I really hope that if we do end up well short of the play-offs that the local press get round to holding Lansdown and Tinnion to account. Neither of them have been yet. I’m not holding my breath.

That said, I hope even more that we finish in the top six and they were right all along. But I’m not holding my breath over that either.

[tin]

15 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

You know, I was wondering whether anyone ever actually claimed that or if I (and everyone else had misremembered). I went back and looked at the interviews and statements from the early days following Pearson's sacking.

Firstly JL's 2 minute "interview" on 31 October 2023.

Then key quote here is at 01:02 "...[we] ultimately made the decision [to sack Pearson] because we think the squad's good enough and I believe in it. If we didn't then why make a change? You'd just see see things through as they are, but the ultimate reason is I think we've got a really good squad here and and we've got a good chance at competing at the right end of the division this season..."

So he doesn't quite say the words "we have a top 6 squad" but that last line in particular near as means the same thing.

Then BT's longer 5 minute "interview" published the same day, 13 October 2023.

You don't have to wait long here. Barton opens with the question "Brian, John Lansdown's talked about the belief that you all have in the quality of this squad how confident are you that these players can compete at the top of the Championship?" Tinnion answers:

"I think everybody in the summer was happy with how we recruited, it's a squad that should be at the top end of the division..."

No debate there I don't think. Clearly says that this squad should be at the top end of the division.

There's then the ITV interview with GM from 3 November 2023.

https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2023-11-03/we-want-promotion-this-year-bristol-city-board-on-sacking-nigel-pearson

The video opens with Marshall saying "We had a three year plan with Nigel and we the objective for us including Nigel was to be at the top end, challenging at the top end of the table..."

He then says at 2:02 "The club is looking for a manager who we believe will get us to the top end of the Championship. We think we've got a great squad of players, a great fanbase, we've got great facilities. It's a puzzle that someone needs to solve and we're looking for someone who believes, and we believe, will get us into the Premier League."

The next question, at 02:29 is "And that [getting to the Premier League] is still the aim, for Bristol City this season, and for seasons moving forwards?"

GM answers "100% it's the aim for this season and we didn't  feel that we were going to get there unless we made a change and that's one of the drivers. We're less than a third of the way through the season and we feel that we're giving the next manager time to come in and make an impact and hopefully have us challenging towards the top end of the table. We believe this squad of players are very capable of doing that."

So he rambles a little bit, and answers it across several questions, but that final line is there for all to see. It's not quite as definite as BT's words but the hierarchy clearly think this squad is "very capable" of challenging "towards the top end".

All of that unequivocally shows that the top six (minimum) is the board’s aim this season. What that also shows is how misguided and unrealistic a goal that is and that they are clueless. I also feel for Manning as they’ve set him up to fail.

There is no way this squad is good enough or has the strength in depth to be at the “top end of the table” in May and IMO our best chance of gatecrashing the play-offs was with Nige. Now I think there’s way more chance of a bottom six finish and that is on the board.

Edited November 14, 2023 by tin

[chinapig]

7 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's not quite as definite as BT's words but the hierarchy clearly think this squad is "very capable" of challenging "towards the top end".

Top end seems to be a phrase they decided they should use. I'm sure most of us would take that to mean top 6 but it's sufficiently vague to allow them to define it after the event.

So if we were to finish 11th they could claim they meant top half for instance.

Whether this is a cunning deceit or a sign that they don't think things through before making statements who knows?

[Gert Mare]

20 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

You know, I was wondering whether anyone ever actually claimed that or if I (and everyone else had misremembered). I went back and looked at the interviews and statements from the early days following Pearson's sacking.

Firstly JL's 2 minute "interview" on 31 October 2023.

Then key quote here is at 01:02 "...[we] ultimately made the decision [to sack Pearson] because we think the squad's good enough and I believe in it. If we didn't then why make a change? You'd just see see things through as they are, but the ultimate reason is I think we've got a really good squad here and and we've got a good chance at competing at the right end of the division this season..."

So he doesn't quite say the words "we have a top 6 squad" but that last line in particular near as means the same thing.

Then BT's longer 5 minute "interview" published the same day, 13 October 2023.

You don't have to wait long here. Barton opens with the question "Brian, John Lansdown's talked about the belief that you all have in the quality of this squad how confident are you that these players can compete at the top of the Championship?" Tinnion answers:

"I think everybody in the summer was happy with how we recruited, it's a squad that should be at the top end of the division..."

No debate there I don't think. Clearly says that this squad should be at the top end of the division.

There's then the ITV interview with GM from 3 November 2023.

https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2023-11-03/we-want-promotion-this-year-bristol-city-board-on-sacking-nigel-pearson

The video opens with Marshall saying "We had a three year plan with Nigel and we the objective for us including Nigel was to be at the top end, challenging at the top end of the table..."

He then says at 2:02 "The club is looking for a manager who we believe will get us to the top end of the Championship. We think we've got a great squad of players, a great fanbase, we've got great facilities. It's a puzzle that someone needs to solve and we're looking for someone who believes, and we believe, will get us into the Premier League."

The next question, at 02:29 is "And that [getting to the Premier League] is still the aim, for Bristol City this season, and for seasons moving forwards?"

GM answers "100% it's the aim for this season and we didn't  feel that we were going to get there unless we made a change and that's one of the drivers. We're less than a third of the way through the season and we feel that we're giving the next manager time to come in and make an impact and hopefully have us challenging towards the top end of the table. We believe this squad of players are very capable of doing that."

So he rambles a little bit, and answers it across several questions, but that final line is there for all to see. It's not quite as definite as BT's words but the hierarchy clearly think this squad is "very capable" of challenging "towards the top end".

But they insisted on a small squad and there were injuries to 12 players.

Judge the man against his best 11 fit and playing, not when 50% of his squad is on the treatment table.

The comments about top end is ridiculous when you consider the blindingly obvious constraining factors.

It was nothing less than a diabolical non-football related decision.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Gert Mare

[ExiledAjax]

14 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Top end seems to be a phrase they decided they should use. I'm sure most of us would take that to mean top 6 but it's sufficiently vague to allow them to define it after the event.

So if we were to finish 11th they could claim they meant top half for instance.

Whether this is a cunning deceit or a sign that they don't think things through before making statements who knows?

Yeh they don't actually say "top 6" in these three interviews. I didn't watch the Joe Sims one back as I haven't got time, but I don't recall JL going further in that one.

In a 24 team division I would argue that the "end" is the top or bottom 25%...which is top 6.

So I think we need to be careful to attribute the words "top 6" to anyone, but I agree with everyone saying that it's pretty clear that the three guys managing this club on a day to day basis believe that the squad we have right now is capable of challenging "at the top end". So judge them on that.

I also agree with the view that it's a delusional position to take. Even fully fit this squad is probably good for finishing around 9th, maybe scraping 6th with a very fair wind.

Edited November 14, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

26 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

 

So he rambles a little bit, and answers it across several questions, but that final line is there for all to see. It's not quite as definite as BT's words but the hierarchy clearly think this squad is "very capable" of challenging "towards the top end".

Just seen this thread.

Yet again we see someone who is incandescent with rage re NP just making up a quote  to underpin their agenda and the "Simpsons crowd /mob" falling over themselves with support and agreement then someone comes along and proves that no such thing was said and are basically ignored.

Facts are clearly unwanted if they challenge the accepted narrative.

If people are so utterly convinced that the NP sacking was wrong/ totally damaging and all the other stuff that's been said then surely they shouldn't have to make stuff up to prove their point?

3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I didn't watch the Joe Sims one back as I haven't got time, but I don't recall JL going further in that one.

Nope- he didn't say it on that interview either.

[ExiledAjax]

35 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Just seen this thread.

Yet again we see someone who is incandescent with rage re NP just making up a quote  to underpin their agenda and the "Simpsons crowd /mob" falling over themselves with support and agreement then someone comes along and proves that no such thing was said and are basically ignored.

Facts are clearly unwanted if they challenge the accepted narrative.

If people are so utterly convinced that the NP sacking was wrong/ totally damaging and all the other stuff that's been said then surely they shouldn't have to make stuff up to prove their point?

Nope- he didn't say it on that interview either.

I personally wouldn't go so far as to say people are "making it up" when they say that JL/BT/GM think the squad should be "top 6".

I think the quotes show that there is a belief that the squad is capable of challenging at the "top end". Tinnion is the one of the three who then really puts his foot in it and states that the squad should be at the top end. That word "should" is dangerous and it's a slip from BT to use it (and from the Club to release that answer!).

Do people spin it to say what they want to hear? Probably. Do people misremember? Yes. Do people write posts in shorthand and without restating every little bit of context every time? Absolutely.

But, do we need to try and remember the words said, yes I think we do.

[Cidre Monita]

Big Nige was obviously sacked for non-footballing reasons, but I also think there’s something else at play here. I have listened with interest to SL’s comments over recent times and I think he believes that since investing in the HPC he has given the head coach/manager all the tools they need for success whilst also subsequently reducing the need for recruitment of players. This was further reflected by NP stating that we couldn’t afford to buy a striker and that we would ‘’grow our own’’. Was that a coincidence, or something he had been told to do? I believe that the same applies for the Bears and the Ladies who have been encouraged to embrace the good team spirit mentality and excellent training facilities to achieve success. 

[JP Hampton]

2 hours ago, johnheadbcfc said:

Why are people holding JL to what is said in a pr interview, he's always going to big us up for the players sakes and fans sake, imagine he came out and said mid-table at best don't even think of play offs, there would be pages and pages of people slagging off his approach

Well he wouldn’t say that would he, because there’d be no reason to sack NP would there. 

 

and how it does not put us in a good light for a new manager aswel as crushing the squads confidence. 

No-one believes a politician so why is this any different

Because words matter and a Manager and his team lost their jobs because of it. There has to be accountability somewhere. 
 

He said said top 6 and by inference NP isn’t going to get us there, so it’s reasonable for fans (who spend money and give support to the team) to hold him to what he’s said, as an excuse for the sacking, otherwise it was all for nothing. 

[One Team]

2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

You know, I was wondering whether anyone ever actually claimed that or if I (and everyone else) had misremembered. I went back and looked at the interviews and statements from the early days following Pearson's sacking.

Firstly JL's 2 minute "interview" on 31 October 2023.

Then key quote here is at 01:02 "...[we] ultimately made the decision [to sack Pearson] because we think the squad's good enough and I believe in it. If we didn't then why make a change? You'd just see see things through as they are, but the ultimate reason is I think we've got a really good squad here and and we've got a good chance at competing at the right end of the division this season..."

So he doesn't quite say the words "we have a top 6 squad" but that last line in particular near as means the same thing.

Then BT's longer 5 minute "interview" published the same day, 13 October 2023.

You don't have to wait long here. Barton opens with the question "Brian, John Lansdown's talked about the belief that you all have in the quality of this squad how confident are you that these players can compete at the top of the Championship?" Tinnion answers:

"I think everybody in the summer was happy with how we recruited, it's a squad that should be at the top end of the division..."

No debate there I don't think. Clearly says that this squad should be at the top end of the division.

There's then the ITV interview with GM from 3 November 2023.

https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2023-11-03/we-want-promotion-this-year-bristol-city-board-on-sacking-nigel-pearson

The video opens with Marshall saying "We had a three year plan with Nigel and we the objective for us including Nigel was to be at the top end, challenging at the top end of the table..."

He then says at 2:02 "The club is looking for a manager who we believe will get us to the top end of the Championship. We think we've got a great squad of players, a great fanbase, we've got great facilities. It's a puzzle that someone needs to solve and we're looking for someone who believes, and we believe, will get us into the Premier League."

The next question, at 02:29 is "And that [getting to the Premier League] is still the aim, for Bristol City this season, and for seasons moving forwards?"

GM answers "100% it's the aim for this season and we didn't  feel that we were going to get there unless we made a change and that's one of the drivers. We're less than a third of the way through the season and we feel that we're giving the next manager time to come in and make an impact and hopefully have us challenging towards the top end of the table. We believe this squad of players are very capable of doing that."

So he rambles a little bit, and answers it across several questions, but that final line is there for all to see. It's not quite as definite as BT's words but the hierarchy clearly think this squad is "very capable" of challenging "towards the top end".

Good bit of analysis that.

He was also quoted in the Bristol Post on 29/10/23 that “we all wanted Nigel to achieve our ambition to be promoted but, with our recent results, feel that now is the time to make the change to give the club the best possible chance of success”.

That certainly says to me what they are expecting from anyone coming in to replace him. 

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

Top end seems to be a phrase they decided they should use. I'm sure most of us would take that to mean top 6 but it's sufficiently vague to allow them to define it after the event.

So if we were to finish 11th they could claim they meant top half for instance.

Whether this is a cunning deceit or a sign that they don't think things through before making statements who knows?

We were 8th a few days before they decided to sack Pearson. Top 6 absolutely has to be the minimum.

[Merrick's Marvels]

13 hours ago, RedRaw said:

Based on what though?

Through better coaching. Different style of coaching - more hands-on, detailed, tactical, "modern". And less time off for the players.

That's their theory anyway.

 

2 hours ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

I don't  know most of his signings turned out to be decent under Johnson snr.  There were only a few that were average and didn't work out and were moved on when we were promoted.

He was just terrible as a manager, much better as a coach.

 Please check the facts. The majority of his signings were failures.

And I'd be interested to see evidence that Tinnion was any sort of coach. That was Millen surely?   

[JP Hampton]

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Just seen this thread.

Yet again we see someone who is incandescent with rage re NP just making up a quote  to underpin their agenda and the "Simpsons crowd /mob" falling over themselves with support and agreement then someone comes along and proves that no such thing was said and are basically ignored.

Facts are clearly unwanted if they challenge the accepted narrative.

If people are so utterly convinced that the NP sacking was wrong/ totally damaging and all the other stuff that's been said then surely they shouldn't have to make stuff up to prove their point?

Nope- he didn't say it on that interview either.

So out of interest then, how would you interpret “top end”?

Edited November 14, 2023 by JP Hampton

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Just seen this thread.

Yet again we see someone who is incandescent with rage re NP just making up a quote  to underpin their agenda and the "Simpsons crowd /mob" falling over themselves with support and agreement then someone comes along and proves that no such thing was said and are basically ignored.

Facts are clearly unwanted if they challenge the accepted narrative.

If people are so utterly convinced that the NP sacking was wrong/ totally damaging and all the other stuff that's been said then surely they shouldn't have to make stuff up to prove their point?

Nope- he didn't say it on that interview either.

But the facts ARE there….the CEO stated as such.

There is no incandescent rage from Exiled Ajax re NP re the above. (Edit: and I wasn’t suggesting your post was aimed at him)

There is a feeling from fans that the Hierarchy are deluded.  That’s a massive difference.

There is some feeling from fans that NP was sacked unfairly.

There is a feeling from some fans that Manning should be judged on the same basis..

But, there is a feeling from more fans that Manning shouldn’t be judged on this, because it was a deluded objective / aim.

Isn’t there?

Edited November 14, 2023 by Davefevs
Sane to same - Freudian slip

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

There is no incandescent rage from Exiled Ajax re NP re the above.

To be fair to @Marina's Rolls Royce I don't think they were accusing me of incandescent rage or fury. I had to read the post a couple of times but I think that reference was to other unnamed posters.

If I'm wrong then I will be incandescent with rage, but it will be directed at Marina's Rolls Royce.

I wasn't trying to stir any shit at all. The opposite really. Just had some time to refresh my memory of things said two weeks ago and try to fix in people's minds what was actually said!

Edited November 14, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[beaverface]

If I asked someone which road they lived on, and they said the top end of "blah blah lane", I wouldn't expect to travel halfway along that road to get to their house.

If I offered someone a bite out the top end of my chocolate bar, I wouldn't expect them to guzzle down half the bar!

If a Chairman of a football club said he expects to be challenging at the top end of the division, then finishing in the top "half" wouldn't be the top end either IMO.

Top end means the end of the measure, or in football terms, the top 6 six places of the division. If your team is a just a few points outside of the top 6 with only a 3rd of the season gone, I'd say that a team in and around ~8th position would constitute challenging the top end - and it's at this point NP was let go.

As has been said many times, the hierarchy at Bristol City have now set expectations for the season, and should be held accountable for their actions.

[Davefevs]

21 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

To be fair to @Marina's Rolls Royce I don't think they were accusing me of incandescent rage or fury. I had to read the post a couple of times but I think that reference was to other unnamed posters.

If I'm wrong then I will be incandescent with rage, but it will be directed at Marina's Rolls Royce.

I wasn't trying to stir any shit at all. The opposite really. Just had some time to refresh my memory of things said two weeks ago and try to fix in people's minds what was actually said!

Edited my post above.

[Gert Mare]

24 minutes ago, beaverface said:

If I asked someone which road they lived on, and they said the top end of "blah blah lane", I wouldn't expect to travel halfway along that road to get to their house.

If I offered someone a bite out the top end of my chocolate bar, I wouldn't expect them to guzzle down half the bar!

If a Chairman of a football club said he expects to be challenging at the top end of the division, then finishing in the top "half" wouldn't be the top end either IMO.

Top end means the end of the measure, or in football terms, the top 6 six places of the division. If your team is a just a few points outside of the top 6 with only a 3rd of the season gone, I'd say that a team in and around ~8th position would constitute challenging the top end - and it's at this point NP was let go.

As has been said many times, the hierarchy at Bristol City have now set expectations for the season, and should be held accountable for their actions.

Spot on.

The facts were that we were in the top half (not the bottom 3)

The squad were blighted by injuries

It’s not rocket science to be able to read between the lines, and as @Davefevs says, most fans know the reality is that LM will be given time and not expected to challenge for promotion this season (unless he is given a sizeable amount of transfer money in January or a fair number of players return from the treatment table). If he is expected to pull a rabbit out of the hat by just dipping into the academy then the delusional expectations are very real….and very frightening!

[Mr Popodopolous]

IMO, if we have a meaningful tilt at the playoffs, quite deep into the season and the squad had remained much the same obviously with less injuries people won't be too unhappy overall. If there are signs of a new style being incorporated ad part of it..it'll but even more time, finish 8th-10th something like. Even if it isn't top 6, that would be continued upward progress and top 3rd, top 40%.

If however we sink into midtable obscurity or even worse, and even more so if money has been spent and there is a new style but it fails terribly...then there could be a lot of disquiet. Hopefully moreso at the hierarchy.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Sheltons Army]

A couple of posters , and I apologise I cannot recollect who (I think @awbbmight have been one) , in amongst the tonnes of posts in recent weeks , made,  what I thought were excellent points , and the question about Tinnion and his assessment of what is coming through the academy.

I recall , as many surely will , him say a number of times , as Antoine , Bell , Conway broke through that the next batch are even better 

I thought that sounds pretty exciting and something to look forward to , which it certainly is , if anywhere near accurate or true

I have no doubt that this message has been firmly expressed to JL & Co and that this has had a major affect / input into our plans

Now BT may well be right and proved correct (I have just about nil knowledge for those coming through , other than those who have some idea , and kindly post on here)

If he’s got a bit carried away with the Academy , which is clearly a major,  if not the , major , passion of his , then those plans are going to need to change.

Those who have some idea , and hence opinion 

 

Do you think we have obvious first teamers developing , and a group better than Antoine , Bell , Conway ?

 

* (I’ve left Scott out the declaration as , if we’ve got better than Scott coming through , I will do the Burtons Window thing)

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Sheltons Army

[ExiledAjax]

3 hours ago, The Journalist said:

This almost needs pinning at the top of the forum as a reminder.

I really hope that if we do end up well short of the play-offs that the local press get round to holding Lansdown and Tinnion to account. Neither of them have been yet. I’m not holding my breath.

That said, I hope even more that we finish in the top six and they were right all along. But I’m not holding my breath over that either.

I put the same post into the "For the Record" thread as well (and I'd personally pin that thread to the top).

[petehinton]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

A couple of posters , and I apologise I cannot recollect who (I think @awbb might have been one) , in amongst the tonnes of posts in recent weeks , mad what I thought were excellent points and the question about Tinnion and his assessment of what is coming through the academy.

I recall , as many surely will , him say a number of times as Antoine , Bell , Conway broke through that the next batch are even better 

I thought that sounds pretty exciting and something to look forward to , which it certainly is , if anywhere accurate or true

I have no doubt that this message has been firmly expressed to JL & Co and that this has had a major affect / input into our plans

Now BT may well be right and proved correct (I have just about nil knowledge for those coming through other than those who have some idea , and kindly post on here)

If he’s got a bit carried away with the Academy which is clearly a major,  if not the , major passion of his then those plans are going to need to change.

Those who have some idea , and hence opinion 

Do you think we have obvious first teamers developing , and a group better than Antoine , Bell , Conway ?

 

* (I’ve left Scott out the declaration as , if we’ve got better than Scott coming through , I will do the Burtons Window thing)

 

From what I’ve seen, there’s definitely some really exciting ones - but in defence of Tinnion, he may have meant even better in comparison to their ages, I.e arguably, or pretty much guaranteed, Raekwon Nelson is better than Semenyo was at 17, etc etc. What I would say is, they are all ‘proper’ athletes. Seriously. They’re all ******* massive, and rapid.

Nelson, Ephraim, Jamie KL and Elijah Morrison have been the standouts for me of the ‘next batch who could come through’ whenever I’ve seen them. But you just really can never tell how they’ll step up into first team, how they’ll do on loans, etc. Every case is so different, and you’ll always get surprises, like how much Tommy came along after the space of about 2 first team games. 
 

If I had to lay a bet on the next ‘big money’ nest egg sale that’s in and amongst it, it’s Ephraim. I can understand some reservations around his rawness etc, but the lad is only recently 17 (!!!!) and he’s a bundle of pure speed and trickery, that not many will be able to deal with within the next year or two.
 

I still have really high hopes for Jamie KL, has always looked like a real complete CB to me over the years, and I think he showed he’d be able to be trusted to start based on his cameo at Cardiff. 

[Sheltons Army]

Just now, petehinton said:

From what I’ve seen, there’s definitely some really exciting ones - but in defence of Tinnion, he may have meant even better in comparison to their ages, I.e arguably, or pretty much guaranteed, Raekwon Nelson is better than Semenyo was at 17, etc etc. What I would say is, they are all ‘proper’ athletes. Seriously. They’re all ******* massive, and rapid.

Nelson, Ephraim, Jamie KL and Elijah Morrison have been the standouts for me of the ‘next batch who could come through’ whenever I’ve seen them. But you just really can never tell how they’ll step up into first team, how they’ll do on loans, etc. Every case is so different, and you’ll always get surprises, like how much Tommy came along after the space of about 2 first team games. 
 

If I had to lay a bet on the next ‘big money’ nest egg sale that’s in and amongst it, it’s Ephraim. I can understand some reservations around his rawness etc, but the lad is only recently 17 (!!!!) and he’s a bundle of pure speed and trickery, that not many will be able to deal with within the next year or two.
 

I still have really high hopes for Jamie KL, has always looked like a real complete CB to me over the years, and I think he showed he’d be able to be trusted to start based on his cameo at Cardiff. 

Thanks Pete,

Interesting and exactly the sort of reply I was hoping for

Tbf I assumed Tinnion was completely saying ‘at their age’ , and in no way suggesting that the next group were better now than TC , Bell etc

Appreciate your thoughts , it gives us optimism , and I actually think is quite important as it’s clearly something we have in as part of the plan jigsaw

 

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

I personally wouldn't go so far as to say people are "making it up" when they say that JL/BT/GM think the squad should be "top 6".

I think the quotes show that there is a belief that the squad is capable of challenging at the "top end". Tinnion is the one of the three who then really puts his foot in it and states that the squad should be at the top end. That word "should" is dangerous and it's a slip from BT to use it (and from the Club to release that answer!).

Do people spin it to say what they want to hear? Probably. Do people misremember? Yes. Do people write posts in shorthand and without restating every little bit of context every time? Absolutely.

But, do we need to try and remember the words said, yes I think we do.

Being a bit more generous you could argue being in the top third of the division is top end so we would still need to finish in the top 8. Whichever way you dress it up the expectation is unrealistic with the current squad and it’s injuries only add to that.

What happens if we finish 11th or 12th ie top HALF not end? That would be reasonable with our squad but the powers that be have declared this not good enough. Theoretically they would have to bin Manning which would be stupid now.

If anything the only people set up to fail are the two running the football operation and only one of them, at most, is accountable. Liam Manning hadn’t declared us a top end squad. A ruthless owner, if things pan out as many us expect, might say “look Tinnsy, I listened, I acted, I paid up numerous staff on your advice and nothing has changed, this is on you, goodbye.”.

The above won’t happen because this was never a purely football decision. Nige was out of the door a long time before the trigger was pulled.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

3 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

To be fair to @Marina's Rolls Royce I don't think they were accusing me of incandescent rage or fury. I had to read the post a couple of times but I think that reference was to other unnamed posters.

If I'm wrong then I will be incandescent with rage, but it will be directed at Marina's Rolls Royce.

I wasn't trying to stir any shit at all. The opposite really. Just had some time to refresh my memory of things said two weeks ago and try to fix in people's minds what was actually said!

Well- I was actually saying it in support of your post not against it so you can maintain your blood pressure within recommended levels.

I had a similar friendly exchange regarding an inaccurate Math Withers quote last night.

My point is that someone only has to change a word in a quote to entirely change what was actually meant. My other point was that if everything that has gone on at BCFC is quite as bad as many think then the facts as they stand will prove the argument/statement/belief and doesn't need to veer off into fantasy, conspiracy or myth.

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

But, there is a feeling from more fans that Manning shouldn’t be judged on this, because it was a deluded objective / aim.

Isn’t there?

Yes and no in that's it's not universal. A brief glance at the various threads since LM was appointed shows quite a divergence on what is expected of him and why but many of these comments may just be a knee jerk reaction whilst the dismissal of Nige is still very raw.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

3 hours ago, JP Hampton said:

So out of interest then, how would you interpret “top end”?

The other end to bottom- strictly speaking. Does  top end means top 2? Or top 6? Is 7th top end? I think "top end" is indeed down to interpretation and deliberately vague when referenced by some.

 

However, as a long term BCFC supporter my personal interpretation of top end is anywhere whatsoever higher than 22nd.

[BCFC Rich]

3 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

The other end to bottom- strictly speaking. Does  top end means top 2? Or top 6? Is 7th top end? I think "top end" is indeed down to interpretation and deliberately vague when referenced by some.

 

However, as a long term BCFC supporter my personal interpretation of top end is anywhere whatsoever higher than 22nd.

So you're finally admitting we were a top-end club under NP! 

[JP Hampton]

12 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

However, as a long term BCFC supporter my personal interpretation of top end is anywhere whatsoever higher than 22nd.

Well I’d be amazed if anyone other than you would make that interpretation !!

 I think we all knew what was meant and is probably why “top six” was adopted genuinely (not made up) as an interpretation. 
 

Considering we were 8th in the table at one point, they had to mean higher than that for starters. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by JP Hampton