How are we thinking about tomorrows game and what would be a good result

[AshtonGreat]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Well yes, sides have changed as has ours. Huddersfield and Norwich feel weaker, Middlesbrough hard to say, QPR have weakened but had a new manager, Southampton are a Parachute club and going well, a loss there would be no surprise.

What I mean is, I don't think it's fair/logical to compare Manning with Pearson so soon

[Edgy Red]

35 minutes ago, pillred said:

I will probably get stick for this opinion, but here goes, I have never hidden my doubts about Pearson, yes he had a bit of bad luck with injuries and losing players but we at times had a team that should have performed better, our results, especially at home have been well disappointing to say the least, I remember when every Sat Geoff Stelling would point out we had not won at home in nearly a year, yes really, he was a BIG name and I think some on here could not get over how "lucky" we were to have him, look overall things did not work out did they, we have now appointed a young manager who I'm sure will bust a gut to prove himself we have had one game under him, did not lose it by the way yet the knives are already out, give the guy a chance ffs if in 6 months it has not worked out then I will hold my hands up, but I have a feeling, at last, we may have the man in charge that can fulfil our hopes for the future.   

I agree with this. I still don't fully get the massive Pearson love in. I understand that the wage bill has been slashed, but other than Scott (who was always going to leave), Semenyo and a fit Kalas, i don't believe he's lost that much talent.

Pearson was given the best part of 7 million to spend during his tenure but i never saw any tangible improvement in the way we played. Yes, he made us fairly sound defensively but we never looked comfortable in posession.

I think Manning has a tough job on his hands but i will support him tomorrow, just as i would if Nige was still in charge.

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

14 minutes ago, Edgy Red said:

I agree with this. I still don't fully get the massive Pearson love in. I understand that the wage bill has been slashed, but other than Scott (who was always going to leave), Semenyo and a fit Kalas, i don't believe he's lost that much talent.

Pearson was given the best part of 7 million to spend during his tenure but i never saw any tangible improvement in the way we played. Yes, he made us fairly sound defensively but we never looked comfortable in posession.

I think Manning has a tough job on his hands but i will support him tomorrow, just as i would if Nige was still in charge.

 

7 million is a high estimate. However whatever was spent, was spent over FIVE transfer windows. 1.4 per window if your high estimate is correct. With a lot of that small amount being spent in the last window. We've yet to see our most expensive signing(McCrorie) so really we can deduct that off of your 7 million because in the context you are talking in, its unfair to include a transfer spend on a player that hasn't been available to play at all, especially considering the circumstances of his absence. 

Whilst he may have spent 7 million as you suggest he sold Semenyo and Scott for a combined 35 million plus cut the wage bill dramatically.  @Mr Popodopolous is probably more in the know about how much wages have been saved. So whilst you're trying to frame 7 million as being a big amount when you consider it in the wider context then we are still hugely in profit. 

Coventry by comparison brought in 32million and have spent about 25 on transfer fees alone and are below us. We also beat them.

Your post is missing a hell of a lot of context.

Finally, if you didn't notice any difference in the way we played when Pearson took over to when he left, I'd politely suggest that you haven't watched any of our games in that time.

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Chivs said:

Why do you "get why"?

No rational person could possibly judge Manning after two games. 

I think this is where people like you are misunderstanding how people view things. 

It's not judging Manning. Its judging the decision that JL and BT made. 

The decision they made wasn't a we need to go backwards to go forwards decision, it was a decision to immediately push us forward. According to the boards own expectations, he has to immediately deliver results. 

[Robin101]

5 hours ago, pillred said:

Done and dusted? blimey, and I thought I was pessimistic.

Ha just don’t see us pulling a 7 or 8 point deficit back to be honest, if it gets to that point of course. I’d give it a less than 5% chance. 

[LondonBristolian]

A good result is a win. A good performance is either a win or a draw where we are unlucky not to win. I’d be happy with a good result and satisfied with a good performance but not a win.

Losing or being the worse side in a draw is not an acceptable outcome. We’re at home against a decent but not outstanding side. The very least I expect is to be the better team.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Chivs said:

Why do you "get why"?

No rational person could possibly judge Manning after two games. 

I answered it when replying to Cov77.

People form judgements quickly, you’ve only got to look at Society.

People judge performance on result.

People judged the old manager on a sample of poor games, ignoring the good games.

So I can totally get why people will judge Manning quickly, especially when JL / Tins came out with a load of tripe.  Or if it wasn’t tripe and Nige was really underperforming, then isn’t it right to exoect more from LM?  Because he’s been handpicked to be exactly who they wanted.

In some ways are “they” the logical / rational ones?  Are “we” just “making excuses”???

 

 

[pillred]

50 minutes ago, Robin101 said:

Ha just don’t see us pulling a 7 or 8 point deficit back to be honest, if it gets to that point of course. I’d give it a less than 5% chance. 

We still have a lot of players either still out or some that have come back (Conway) who at the moment are not back to the form they had shown pre-injury, who knows we might buy somebody in Jan that surprises us all, 7/8 points is nothing with 30 games to go, much larger deficits have been made up in the past by a lot of teams have faith.

[Davefevs]

@Chivs I forgot to add to my post above, just like there might be a few ready to pounce on Manning if we lose / are poor tomorrow, there may be a few who will see some decent moves (hopefully) or a win / good performance and proclaim we are now well-coached.  It works both ways.  If you can accept they are as irrational as the “other side” then that’s fair / fine.

[ashton_fan]

Whatever the expectation I'm sure Manning will be given a fair crack of the whip here as has been the case with previous appointments (unlike most other clubs) and that in time we'll be able to judge whether the decision to make the change was good or bad.

[awbb]

As others have said, my pulse is not exactly racing for later on.
 

LM is on a hiding to nothing as I don’t believe the squad will be able to get results playing the brand of football that he has been brought into implement in a time frame that gives us any hope of hitting the extremely tough targets that Pearson was removed for allegedly not meeting.
 

Indeed, I suspect we’re going to be in for constipated slogfests as we labour our way, trying to play a style of possession based football similar to that which failed so spectacularly under O’Driscoll.
 

What I would caveat that with, a lot of the football played under Pearson wasn’t exactly edge of your seat stuff, so really, if I’m being fair, it’s purely about results and results alone. The aesthetics can come later.
 

So, of course I’ll support the team and hope he’s a success, not much would bring me greater happiness to be proven wrong with my initial, downbeat, assessment.

[MC RISK77]

Now that the dust has settled from Pearson’s exit, has anyone changed their mind from not going back to Ashton gate until the Lansdown’s have sold up?

Cant make it as on hols but hoping for at least a draw and a credible performance.

[ENOUGH]

44 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said:

Now that the dust has settled from Pearson’s exit, has anyone changed their mind from not going back to Ashton gate until the Lansdown’s have sold up?

Cant make it as on hols but hoping for at least a draw and a credible performance.

Def not changed my mind too many false dawns for me. BS comes to mind....Bristol Sport and Bull Sh1te, dont like either.

There is always hope, next game, next window, next 10 games, we go again etc but the reality is the Lansdowns have failed in manager selection and on field progress since they sacked SC.

So long as we continue to cash in on our prized assets we are going no-where, our defence will stop us dropping too far this season but a poor mid-field and strike force will stop us being a threat to the top six. Hope I`m wrong but thats all it is hope.

Boro see us as a bit of a bogey team so could go eitherway but a draw fav i.m.o

Still need a midfield general and a talisman striker, and to keep them, to be any sort of threat, whatever manager is here.

Edited November 25, 2023 by mason

[RedM]

10 hours ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

It's not Manning's fault so I'll not blame him, however I'm still ******* livid with Jon and Brian.  If it goes well I think it might buy them a little bit of good will back but Pearson was beyond poorly treated.  

I think this is very much the feeling.

If Pearson had been poached, or even retired due to health reasons and the Board recruited Manning then the feeling would be very different.

Instead, just my opinion, but it's another 'judge me on Tinnion' type moment along with an 'its my club' reminder.

[redkev]

10 hours ago, Galley is our king said:

Brilliantly well argued very intelligent post. 

 

****t

, says the very intelligent gentleman using swear words to insult me , you couldn’t make it up .

 

[Edgy Red]

9 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

7 million is a high estimate. However whatever was spent, was spent over FIVE transfer windows. 1.4 per window if your high estimate is correct. With a lot of that small amount being spent in the last window. We've yet to see our most expensive signing(McCrorie) so really we can deduct that off of your 7 million because in the context you are talking in, its unfair to include a transfer spend on a player that hasn't been available to play at all, especially considering the circumstances of his absence. 

Whilst he may have spent 7 million as you suggest he sold Semenyo and Scott for a combined 35 million plus cut the wage bill dramatically.  @Mr Popodopolous is probably more in the know about how much wages have been saved. So whilst you're trying to frame 7 million as being a big amount when you consider it in the wider context then we are still hugely in profit. 

Coventry by comparison brought in 32million and have spent about 25 on transfer fees alone and are below us. We also beat them.

Your post is missing a hell of a lot of context.

Finally, if you didn't notice any difference in the way we played when Pearson took over to when he left, I'd politely suggest that you haven't watched any of our games in that time.

 

Thanks for your (blunt) response.

Your reply to my view is a prime example of why i don't post very often.

I have been supporting City for over 40 years and it is my opinion (shared by a number of others) that the quality of football under Pearson did not improve during his time in charge. I respect your opinion if you feel it did.

I liked Nige and would have supported the team today in the same way as i will for Liam Manning. I will be at the game by the way!

[Northern Red]

11 hours ago, Chivs said:

Why do you "get why"?

No rational person could possibly judge Manning after two games. 

Agreed.

How many games did you give Pearson, out of interest?

[bearded_red]

Of course it would be absurd to ‘judge’ Manning after two games (although a performance as crap as QPR will no doubt see some irrational ‘judgements’ this evening), however, and this is no fault of the man himself, no City manager I can ever remember deserves less time or patience before being ‘judged’.

I expect to see the results of his ‘on the grass’ coaching quickly on the style of play and I have been told by our Chairman that we were underperforming under Nigel Pearson, so the expectation is that we challenge for the playoffs under this manager.

Usually managers take over this club because the results are dreadful, relegation is a concern, the team barely have a shot let alone a win, the squad is unmotivated, the crowd has turned, there has been a breakdown between manager and players, the manager has simply lost the plot.. Not all of these may apply, but some of them will do and we all know the atmosphere around the club when a manager leaves. None of this was the case with Nigel Pearson. None of those sorts of messes need cleaning up. Because Nige (in time) cleaned them all up from what he was left with.

It is as good a situation to take over this club that I can ever remember. The squad is small without any deadwood expensive, useless players needing to be removed, the players are fit, spirited and motivated, and the team is in touching reach of the playoffs. Therefore there are none of the excuses that usually apply to new managers, none of the time required to sort out the mess of the previous bloke. So therefore there is far less patience or time.
 

If sacking Nigel Pearson and appointing Liam Manning was the correct thing to do, the evidence should be with us quickly, not necessarily today or this week, but much sooner than usual for any judgement on a new manager.

[Gert Mare]

I’m not watching until the Lansdown’s get the **** out of our club.

Naturally I hope we win.

My piss is still boiling and don’t take kindly to being called ‘halfwits’ for thinking the decision to get rid of Pearson was a ******* disgrace and an absolute ******* joke by two pricks who couldn’t run a piss up in a brewery, along side a bloke I once considered a legend just brown nosing them.

Huury up and **** off Lansdown’s

[Alessandro]

Amazing read this thread - there's been some re-writing of history over the years on here and people like to re-frame the facts after the event. It's happening already after only a few short weeks....

Also the thing that strikes me is there are one or two posts here that could have been copy and pasted from discussions around the appointments of our last 4 or 5 plus managers - amazing how history seems to be repeating itself.

I want City to succeed and I'd be very happy for that to be under Manning - and i'll give him a fair crack of the whip...but as other's have said, Pearson was sacked in large part for the fact that they want us challenging for the top 6 and they believe we have a squad good enough for it and a better chance with Manning.

So with that in mind; I believe a game like today, home to Boro, close to us in the table - is a game we should be at a minimum very competitive in, and if top 6 is the aim, winning.

Under Pearson i'd expect a close game with us being competitive and a draw or goal either way would be normal. I don't expect miracles from Manning after a few weeks, and he's got the rest of the season, in my mind, to show what he can implement - but that's my minimum expectation today - pretty low bar TBH, don't lose by more than 1 and be in the game/tough to break down for large parts.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Alessandro

[ashton_fan]

1 hour ago, Edgy Red said:

Thanks for your (blunt) response.

Your reply to my view is a prime example of why i don't post very often.

I have been supporting City for over 40 years and it is my opinion (shared by a number of others) that the quality of football under Pearson did not improve during his time in charge. I respect your opinion if you feel it did.

I liked Nige and would have supported the team today in the same way as i will for Liam Manning. I will be at the game by the way!

Good for you, you made the mistake of vaguely criticising Nige which inevitably gets a negative response from his fan club on here. 

[Davefevs]

Great post @bearded_red

[Sir Colby-Tit]

14 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

Of course it would be absurd to ‘judge’ Manning after two games (although a performance as crap as QPR will no doubt see some irrational ‘judgements’ this evening), however, and this is no fault of the man himself, no City manager I can ever remember deserves less time or patience before being ‘judged’.

I expect to see the results of his ‘on the grass’ coaching quickly on the style of play and I have been told by our Chairman that we were underperforming under Nigel Pearson, so the expectation is that we challenge for the playoffs under this manager.

Usually managers take over this club because the results are dreadful, relegation is a concern, the team barely have a shot let alone a win, the squad is unmotivated, the crowd has turned, there has been a breakdown between manager and players, the manager has simply lost the plot.. Not all of these may apply, but some of them will do and we all know the atmosphere around the club when a manager leaves. None of this was the case with Nigel Pearson. None of those sorts of messes need cleaning up. Because Nige (in time) cleaned them all up from what he was left with.

It is as good a situation to take over this club that I can ever remember. The squad is small without any deadwood expensive, useless players needing to be removed, the players are fit, spirited and motivated, and the team is in touching reach of the playoffs. Therefore there are none of the excuses that usually apply to new managers, none of the time required to sort out the mess of the previous bloke. So therefore there is far less patience or time.
 

If sacking Nigel Pearson and appointing Liam Manning was the correct thing to do, the evidence should be with us quickly, not necessarily today or this week, but much sooner than usual for any judgement on a new manager.

 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

Good for you, you made the mistake of vaguely criticising Nige which inevitably gets a negative response from his fan club on here. 

It’s fine to criticise Nige, it is also fine to challenge that criticism.  Most of the challenge of criticism of the “he didn’t improve us” is justified challenge back.

Even if we ignore the mess he took over, he improved us in league position, points, goal difference.  All good, basic barometers of improvement.  So why wouldn’t criticism receive challenge back.  If you then add the context of the situation we found ourselves in, staying in this division comfortably is success.

[Gert Mare]

Nobody in their right mind who is a supporter wants to see Liam Manning fail.

But let’s not forget that he knows what he has signed up to which in reality is an impossible job as anyone other than a select few within the club knows full well that this squad is nowhere near top end challengers. It is still very much a small squad still in transition (or at least it was).

If he has the kahuna’s for the job and can turn us into world beaters then I’ll be over the moon. If he falls short then it isn’t really his fault either as he was sold a lie.

I’m sure he’ll have his contract honoured so he’s never going to lose any sleep over it.

I pray that my feelings of hopelessness are proved wrong and Liam leads us to the promised land.

If I was a betting man my money would be on us heading to Never Never Land rather than the promised one, but if that means that the Lansdown’s depart if it goes belly up then I won’t lose any sleep over it.

[ashton_fan]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’s fine to criticise Nige, it is also fine to challenge that criticism.  Most of the challenge of criticism of the “he didn’t improve us” is justified challenge back.

Even if we ignore the mess he took over, he improved us in league position, points, goal difference.  All good, basic barometers of improvement.  So why wouldn’t criticism receive challenge back.  If you then add the context of the situation we found ourselves in, staying in this division comfortably is success.

Everybody's entitled to their opinion but it's been a bit like lynch mob mentality on here lately where anybody saying anything even slightly critical of NP gets jumped upon, which is why you don't get a balanced view on here any more, people are just put off from posting.

[DaveInSA]

Rods have been made for backs by the senior hierarchy at the club.

What I would expect from today is a winning draw at the least. We have nothing to fear, anyone can beat anyone in the Championship.

1.5ppg over the next 13 games yields 20 points. Takes us to the end of January on 42 points. This is a slight improvement of NPs season to date figures. Can he do it - let's wait and see.

[Gert Mare]

4 hours ago, MC RISK77 said:

Now that the dust has settled from Pearson’s exit, has anyone changed their mind from not going back to Ashton gate until the Lansdown’s have sold up?

Cant make it as on hols but hoping for at least a draw and a credible performance.

I haven’t. I want them gone and the Bristol Sport shite with it. Pearson was a step too far. It’s ‘their’ club and for me it was a straight two fingers up to the supporters, so get ******!

Would dearly loved to be proven wrong but let’s see what happens. I’m happy enough to admit when I get something wrong, but I don’t expect the same from those weasels if it does.

 

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

Everybody's entitled to their opinion but it's been a bit like lynch mob mentality on here lately where anybody saying anything even slightly critical of NP gets jumped upon, which is why you don't get a balanced view on here any more, people are just put off from posting.

I don’t see any posters being put off posting and criticising Nige!!!  They all seem to be willing to take their turn.  That’s kinda why there are posts defending him…and imho there are lots of things to defend him on. As per my previous post, if OTIBers used year on year progress to mean league table / points improvement under LJ, why wouldn’t you use the same criteria for Nige.  If OTIBers think the defence of Nige on here is a weak defence, explain why that is so / challenge back.  It’s better than resorting to “cult of Nige” retorts from some which adds nothing.

FWIW I think Nige was anything but perfect.

 

[RedRock]

I’ll buck the trend here, having been a Pearson supporter even if the dark days last December when many were calling for his head.

Loved Nige, but I can see the logic of the managerial move (and I’m not privy to what went on behind the scenes which, I suspect, may well have influenced decisions). A big gamble, but if you don’t take risks you rarely succeed in life.

The Lansdown’s and LM have my full support ( and I like the Bristol Sport initiative too, just not the rugby pitch markings) but please will you now get a decent *********** scouting network in place to support the manager will you!