Liam Manning at the Hen & Chicken

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, Ian M said:

The answer I liked the most from Liam all evening was his answer to a question about loans.

He spoke of creating depth charts for each position (why don’t we have these already?) and if we see we have a good prospect in the Academy that might be ready in 2 years, that might be a prime opportunity for a loan so as not to block a pathway.

When he says he’s obsessive, I believe him and despite having the lesser title of “Head Coach” I think he can still continue what Nige started and have an influence / improve our overall football operations.

Pete has already replied, we do have them, but I doubt they’re quite as detailed as LM wants them.  Remember seeing David Moyes interviewed at Everton, and he had his big board behind him with exactly that.  It didn’t go down to u15s though, more focussed at first team and one beneath level.

6 hours ago, zippycar said:

Does that make you a bad?

Clearly you have not worked with charismatic people.

I have (worked with someone who outwardly came across as having no intelligence) and had to constantly correct them, grammar, spelling, maths and so on. Even his wife thought I was the brains behind the business.

But who is now the successful multi millionaire.

And obviously it’s not me.

But I have absolutely no malice or grudges against his sucess, as I and everyone who worked under him, have to this day.

Books and covers.

Oh, Mr Hargreaves, you’ve done alright, no need to play it down.

[REDOXO]

8 hours ago, Ian M said:

Top 6 was never the expectation for this squad.

Comfortable mid-table, pushing top half is.

I think it’s clear the Lansdowns had a personality clash with Nigel.

If you have a difficult employee and he isn’t exceeding expectations, why keep them?

So, for Nige, the target was promotion.

For Liam, it isn’t. (That’s not to say he won’t try or achieve it)

It was only in the immediate aftermath of Nige being removed that they spoke of challenging “at the top end” of the table, every interview situation since, starting from the Friday after, they have talked about progression instead, no hard targets.

That is all very well but expectations are set. Manning got the job for the reasons stated to the stakeholders. 
 

We will see how much money is spent in January, that wasn’t given to Pearson and how that corresponds with our league position at the time. 
 

Regardless of the time going to be given to Manning overall the expectation of giving Manning what he wants to bring in his players and have a run at a top six finish was very real to the bloke I sat with on Saturday and he’s not the only one. 

[bcfc01]

52 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

In all fairness, I don’t think anyone has questioned the job Tinnion has done with the academy (although I’d note that success also relies on a manager more than willing to blood players as Pearson did more than anyone could have expected).

What people have - correctly - questioned is why a man who failed as a manager at the level below now seems to be the one we’re looking towards to steer all footballing levels of the club. That in any walk of life is alarming, particularly when that man can’t give consistent and coherent (not in spelling) responses.

As for Tinnion the player vs Tinnion the manager, much as with Lee Johnson it’s reasonable to separate the two (and playing ability as we all hope with Manning isn’t necessarily reflective of coaching ability). I’ve said before that Tinnion wouldn’t touch the best team Id select in the time watching City, and it’s notable that no teams at a higher level came in for him when he played the majority of career at what is now league one. He was a good league one player who stayed with the club because we didn’t get to the next level consistently where we’d have needed to replace him. He wasn’t rubbish and anyone saying that needs to give their head a wobble.

Managerial wise he can’t be classed as anything but a failure. He has done a good job at the academy, but that’s not where he’s manoeuvred himself to now. Thats the concern.

Tinnion was managing a bunch of pissheads who had no respect for him or the club and those pissheads wanted him out. GJ came in and got rid of them (bar one imo).

He was undoubtedly a great player for us, one of the very best, how can over 450 appearances not symbolise what a great player he was for us.

Seems a lot are just jumping on a band wagon.

As for Alexander v Tinnion - Tinnion 100%.

Tinnion is a football man, Alexander isn't. It really is that simple.

Tinnion isn't being asked to oversee the clubs commercial or financial business - that was Alexanders forte and Palace supporters have said as much, he had no influence at all over the playing side of things. Tinnion is now technical director of football which includes those elements of football now taken from Alexander such as recruitment, loans, transfers etc. Football stuff. The other stuff has gone to the Chief Operating Officer.

Its a shame that JL has a rather clumsy way of explaining things which should be quite simple to get across.

Edit - not aimed at just you Silvio, but felt a bit of balance is needed.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by bcfc01

[1960maaan]

2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

That is all very well but expectations are set. Manning got the job for the reasons stated to the stakeholders. 
 

We will see how much money is spent in January, that wasn’t given to Pearson and how that corresponds with our league position at the time. 
 

Regardless of the time going to be given to Manning overall the expectation of giving Manning what he wants to bring in his players and have a run at a top six finish was very real to the bloke I sat with on Saturday and he’s not the only one. 

I don't think the Managerial change was purely a football decision. I think that Pearson was hamstrung by restrictions on wage bill and transfer funds. I also think that the explanations by the Club were excuses , but.

We are here now , almost any new Manager will get some funds and some leeway to play with. I am almost certain there will be funds available for a player or two, once Manning has had a chance to have a good look at the squad.  That then adds to a wage bill that seemed to be maxed out under Pearson , double standards again but that's life. 
From my point of view ( though I was disappointed Nige went) , it's the King is dead , God save the King.
That LM will be given funds is a good thing, with a full squad plus 2 , I think we could get to near my prediction of 10th-8th and hopefully looking up at 6th.  Manning will not be held to that top 6 squad nonsense , that's how it works with the new man. 

Manning is about the 30th Manager since I have been watching City, I've had different feelings about each one . All I can do is carry on supporting the team while moaning on here. 
TBH Manning is the sort of Coach I expected to come in when Nige left/stepped down . I expected that to be at the end of the season, maybe next , but I do think it could be a good fit long term.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Tinnion isn't being asked to oversee the clubs commercial or financial business - that was Alexanders forte and Palace supporters have said as much, he had no influence at all over the playing side of things. Tinnion is now technical director of football which includes those elements of football now taken from Alexander such as recruitment, loans, transfers etc. Football stuff. The other stuff has gone to the Chief Operating Officer.

Its a shame that JL has a rather clumsy way of explaining things which should be quite simple to get across.

Makes you wonder why they asked Scudamore to recommend a Commercially skilled CEO when RG announced he was leaving - when they had the skills in the group already!!!

You’re right it should be simple to explain.

[1960maaan]

9 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Tinnion was managing a bunch of pissheads who had no respect for him or the club and those pissheads wanted him out. GJ came in and got rid of them (bar one imo).

He was undoubtedly a great player for us, one of the very best, how can over 450 appearances not symbolise what a great player he was for us.

Seems a lot are just jumping on a band wagon.

As for Alexander v Tinnion - Tinnion 100%.

Tinnion is a football man, Alexander isn't. It really is that simple.

Tinnion isn't being asked to oversee the clubs commercial or financial business - that was Alexanders forte and Palace supporters have said as much, he had no influence at all over the playing side of things. Tinnion is now technical director of football which includes those elements of football now taken from Alexander such as recruitment, loans, transfers etc. Football stuff. The other stuff has gone to the Chief Operating Officer.

Its a shame that JL has a rather clumsy way of explaining things which should be quite simple to get across.

Edit - not aimed at just you Silvio, but felt a bit of balance is needed.

 

 

You wonder who the wheeling and dealing on transfers falls to . 
If Alexander left because of interference in transfers , who takes on that role, Steve ? Doesn't fill me full of confidence to get the best deals in or out going forward.

[bcfc01]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Makes you wonder why they asked Scudamore to recommend a Commercially skilled CEO when RG announced he was leaving - when they had the skills in the group already!!!

You’re right it should be simple to explain.

I reckon that it was SL looking to replace RG, and him saying nothing leads me to believe that JL is now the King.

 

[bcfc01]

1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

You wonder who the wheeling and dealing on transfers falls to . 
If Alexander left because of interference in transfers , who takes on that role, Steve ? Doesn't fill me full of confidence to get the best deals in or out going forward.

It seems that the wheeling and dealing may be a group effort with Tinnion heading up the recruitment with the COO handling the money side. Rubber stamp from JL.

Just surmising.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

You wonder who the wheeling and dealing on transfers falls to . 
If Alexander left because of interference in transfers , who takes on that role, Steve ? Doesn't fill me full of confidence to get the best deals in or out going forward.

I think PA was asked to leave for interference in Commercial deals being struck by the Chairman!

I think there will be a few people involved, Gilhespy, Tins and Marshall at various points of a transfer.

2 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I reckon that it was SL looking to replace RG, and him saying nothing leads me to believe that JL is now the King.

 

I heard JL wanted to be CEO.

[bcfc01]

Just now, Davefevs said:

 

I heard JL wanted to be CEO.

Well, he can be if not in name.

[Street red]

11 hours ago, Lewisdabaron said:

You forgot the part where he only ever used 1 foot, ever. He would do a whole 360 just to ensure he used his left peg. Awful at taking corners- catching practice for keepers 90% of the time, Massively overrated player. 

To be fair to him he had one of the best left foots I've seen think Murray would agree. Even though he's been an arse over the last month or so.

[Sheltons Army]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Makes you wonder why they asked Scudamore to recommend a Commercially skilled CEO when RG announced he was leaving - when they had the skills in the group already!!!

You’re right it should be simple to explain.

Difficult to argue with that Dave , absolutely

I just wonder if bcfc01 has answered it below

7 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I reckon that it was SL looking to replace RG, and him saying nothing leads me to believe that JL is now the King.

 

I agree and a good point , I’ve suspected for a while now that SL has handed over to Jon with a ‘There’s your budget’ , it’s over to you , and some of the shuffling and changes, roles and titles are Jon’s call and show

Several have said This is , and the outcome is on Tinnion

It certainly is but more so it’s on Jon Lansdown who , I believe , this show is now , and he’s promoted people into roles , that he either rates , or he regards as allies friends , or all those things

Steve appears to have lost interest , become tired of the football

It struck me that if he was still the head man (As owner he is of course ultimately) last night , with the fan base feelings was surely a time for him to make a rare appearance and speak - When was the last time (Other than the Guernsey Golf Club interview) we heard from him ?

[22A]

You had me worried at first with the thread title; "Liam Manning at the Hen & Chicken"

I feared it was the headline from a lurid  newspaper story! 

 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

8 hours ago, Ian M said:

Top 6 was never the expectation for this squad.

Comfortable mid-table, pushing top half is.

I think it’s clear the Lansdowns had a personality clash with Nigel.

If you have a difficult employee and he isn’t exceeding expectations, why keep them?

So, for Nige, the target was promotion.

For Liam, it isn’t. (That’s not to say he won’t try or achieve it)

It was only in the immediate aftermath of Nige being removed that they spoke of challenging “at the top end” of the table, every interview situation since, starting from the Friday after, they have talked about progression instead, no hard targets.

I believe that they had decided that NP had served his purpose and done the job he was paid to do and were never going to renew his contract but I agree that there was clearly a clash. I think the health issue brought forward their decision by half a season.

I thought the timing was off but in hindsight believe they made the right decision at the right time. 

I find Liam Manning a breath of fresh air and any nest egg support they give him is fantastic news. The views of some that this is in some way unfair on NP is, quite frankly, absurd.

 

[bcfc01]

7 minutes ago, Street red said:

To be fair to him he had one of the best left foots I've seen think Murray would agree. Even though he's been an arse over the last month or so.

Agreed.

And in the PFA second division (now L1) team of the year twice.

And the PFA player of the year across all four divisions.

Some people either have short memories or just weren't around at that time. 

[Silvio Dante]

25 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Tinnion was managing a bunch of pissheads who had no respect for him or the club and those pissheads wanted him out. GJ came in and got rid of them (bar one imo).

He was undoubtedly a great player for us, one of the very best, how can over 450 appearances not symbolise what a great player he was for us.

Seems a lot are just jumping on a band wagon.

As for Alexander v Tinnion - Tinnion 100%.

Tinnion is a football man, Alexander isn't. It really is that simple.

Tinnion isn't being asked to oversee the clubs commercial or financial business - that was Alexanders forte and Palace supporters have said as much, he had no influence at all over the playing side of things. Tinnion is now technical director of football which includes those elements of football now taken from Alexander such as recruitment, loans, transfers etc. Football stuff. The other stuff has gone to the Chief Operating Officer.

Its a shame that JL has a rather clumsy way of explaining things which should be quite simple to get across.

Edit - not aimed at just you Silvio, but felt a bit of balance is needed.

 

 

No offence taken. And for balance, I don’t think 450 appearances necessarily makes someone a great - similarly with Louis, he played the most games for the club but he’s not near the best player we’ve ever had. Typically, players stay at a club a long time because it’s their level. There may be family/personal reasons, but most footballers are ambitious, and unless you’re a Scholes/Giggs at top level, you’d naturally want to go up a level if you could.

Again, doesn’t make him a bad player. Just a good one at the level he played at as opposed to a “great”. I don’t think there’s anything controversial in that and, as with LJ, the playing shouldn’t be seen as a reflection on his ability to do other jobs.

I’d reiterate though that the real concern is precisely over the “football stuff”, and in terms of his managerial stint, he would have known that dressing room. He would have known the issues. It’s possible he was too early to cope with it but he failed - taking over a playoff side, and being supported financially the following year (the magnificent seven still give me nightmares). GJ actually had a bigger job to do because of Tinnions stint in charge.

The concern with him is purely football. I’m not bothered about him observing training as some are, but I do think that at no other club would a failed manager be asked to take on a bigger remit at a higher level. And both him and Jon aren’t great communicators as has been said to get things across which probably doesn’t help explain the rationale here.

[Sheltons Army]

12 minutes ago, 22A said:

You had me worried at first with the thread title; "Liam Manning at the Hen & Chicken"

I feared it was the headline from a lurid  newspaper story! 

 

I did think , after I posted , and this morning - It does look an unusual title !

[Galley is our king]

6 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Agreed.

And in the PFA second division (now L1) team of the year twice.

And the PFA player of the year across all four divisions.

Some people either have short memories or just weren't around at that time. 

Yes, a very good player with a superb left foot.

I was though surprised that he was selected as manager when no previous manager who he played for selected him as team captain, who normally have leadership qualities

Unless of course my memory is having another moment..

[bcfc01]

1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

No offence taken. And for balance, I don’t think 450 appearances necessarily makes someone a great - similarly with Louis, he played the most games for the club but he’s not near the best player we’ve ever had. Typically, players stay at a club a long time because it’s their level. There may be family/personal reasons, but most footballers are ambitious, and unless you’re a Scholes/Giggs at top level, you’d naturally want to go up a level if you could.

Again, doesn’t make him a bad player. Just a good one at the level he played at as opposed to a “great”. I don’t think there’s anything controversial in that and, as with LJ, the playing shouldn’t be seen as a reflection on his ability to do other jobs.

I’d reiterate though that the real concern is precisely over the “football stuff”, and in terms of his managerial stint, he would have known that dressing room. He would have known the issues. It’s possible he was too early to cope with it but he failed - taking over a playoff side, and being supported financially the following year (the magnificent seven still give me nightmares). GJ actually had a bigger job to do because of Tinnions stint in charge.

The concern with him is purely football. I’m not bothered about him observing training as some are, but I do think that at no other club would a failed manager be asked to take on a bigger remit at a higher level. And both him and Jon aren’t great communicators as has been said to get things across which probably doesn’t help explain the rationale here.

That was something that I know people close to him discussed and the feeling was that it was too early and there was too much baggage with some of the players. He shouldn't have taken the job imo, but it was hard to turn down.

But I still have nothing but disdain for some of those pissheads who didn't like the fact that Tinnion was quite vocal in how unprofessional they were. It was doomed to fail.

People change over time and that experience, whilst it hurt at the time, would have stood him in good stead imo.

[bcfc01]

2 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Yes, a very good player with a superb left foot.

I was though surprised that he was selected as manager when no previous manager who he played for selected him as team captain, who normally have leadership qualities

Unless of course my memory is having another moment..

Either yours or mine, I thought he captained City on a number of occasions ?

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, bcfc01 said:

That was something that I know people close to him discussed and the feeling was that it was too early and there was too much baggage with some of the players. He shouldn't have taken the job imo, but it was hard to turn down.

But I still have nothing but disdain for some of those pissheads who didn't like the fact that Tinnion was quite vocal in how unprofessional they were. It was doomed to fail.

People change over time and that experience, whilst it hurt at the time, would have stood him in good stead imo.

We had players , not one offs , involved in nightclub incidents , that never surfaced in the press

and a player who shot at people with a BB gun as they drove around the city centre ! Ffs

 

[GrahamC]

56 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Tinnion was managing a bunch of pissheads who had no respect for him or the club and those pissheads wanted him out. GJ came in and got rid of them (bar one imo).

He was undoubtedly a great player for us, one of the very best, how can over 450 appearances not symbolise what a great player he was for us.

Seems a lot are just jumping on a band wagon.

 

Edit - not aimed at just you Silvio, but felt a bit of balance is needed.

 

 

That first bit simply isn’t true.

At the end of his first season in charge Tinnion was effectively allowed to dismantle Danny Wilson’s squad.

The likes of Tommy Doc, Matt Hill & Danny Coles all left & he brought in 7 more players, most of whom were disasters.

He had his own squad, but he couldn’t manage them, the likes of Dave Partridge, Grant Smith & Michael Bridges were on him, not the regime before.

He never managed another football club again because he isn’t a good manager.

[bcfc01]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

That first bit simply isn’t true.

At the end of his first season in charge Tinnion was effectively allowed to dismantle Danny Wilson’s squad.

The likes of Tommy Doc, Matt Hill & Danny Coles all left & he brought in 7 more players, most of whom were disasters.

He had his own squad, but he couldn’t manage them, the likes of Dave Partridge, Grant Smith & Michael Bridges were on him, not the regime before.

He never managed another football club again because he isn’t a good manager.

 

There were players still there in his second season and they were most definitely unprofessional pissheads. Obviously not all of them, but enough to disrupt. 

I'll give you the magnificent seven, they were anything but magnificent (Partridge in particular with his off field activities), and I'm not advocating Tinnion being a good manager, just that it came too soon and with too much baggage with some of the players. He shouldn't have taken the job imo. 

 

[Davefevs]

38 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Difficult to argue with that Dave , absolutely

I just wonder if bcfc01 has answered it below

I agree and a good point , I’ve suspected for a while now that SL has handed over to Jon with a ‘There’s your budget’ , it’s over to you , and some of the shuffling and changes, roles and titles are Jon’s call and show

Several have said This is , and the outcome is on Tinnion

It certainly is but more so it’s on Jon Lansdown who , I believe , this show is now , and he’s promoted people into roles , that he either rates , or he regards as allies friends , or all those things

Steve appears to have lost interest , become tired of the football

It struck me that if he was still the head man (As owner he is of course ultimately) last night , with the fan base feelings was surely a time for him to make a rare appearance and speak - When was the last time (Other than the Guernsey Golf Club interview) we heard from him ?

I think you are right.  A while back I wondered whether JL had some sort of epiphany and what his life was all about, and decided he wants to do something himself, ie Dad, give me the CEO job and I’ll run the love of my life.  I don’t doubt his love of BCFC, and if he has decided that, good luck to him.  The view was he didn’t want to succeed SL, but maybe he does now.

So, in doing so, he’s put a safety blanket around himself (or SL has on his behalf) by using internal, trusted lieutenants like Gavin Marshall and Tins.  I don’t have an issue with that either.  But it’s his show now, and Tins on the football side.

At least it’s not Mark Ashton, and last night, some recognition that they got it wrong.

32 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

I believe that they had decided that NP had served his purpose and done the job he was paid to do and were never going to renew his contract but I agree that there was clearly a clash. I think the health issue brought forward their decision by half a season.

I thought the timing was off but in hindsight believe they made the right decision at the right time. 

I find Liam Manning a breath of fresh air and any nest egg support they give him is fantastic news. The views of some that this is in some way unfair on NP is, quite frankly, absurd.

 

Why would you cut off your nose to spite your face by not using some of that nest egg for the first half of the season.  Why hamstring the club by waiting until January?  I find that to be the absurd bit…that they could be petty and harm the football club’s chances in the process.

They had a natural breakpoint with his contract anyway…so you can take Nige out of the equation to some extent and if you take the view that Recruitment is pretty much manager-agnostic (it’s profile based and has been for (at least) 2 years), why would not strengthen the squad when you are able to.

Petty and absurd.  “Unfair to Nige”, as big a fan as I was, I care more about Bristol City, and they made their chances of achieving success harder. It doesn’t help LM over the next 10-12 games either having a thin squad either.  Does it?  “Unfair to LM” too.

Thoughts?

[Red DNA]

Sounded like an interesting evening with a few people taking the opportunity to get direct answers from those who really know rather than people on here taking a guess. 
 

I assume the crew from the Dolman stand left the obligatory 15 minutes before the end of the evening?

[Numero Uno]

13 hours ago, Redtucks said:

 

Dyslexia???

Walt Disney, Richard Branson and Albert Einstein suffered from it, and weren't that stupid.

 

With the best will in the world I certainly wouldn’t place him in with that company………..

[DaveInSA]

13 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Yes interesting first week or three. LM looks good, speaks well and seems he might have something about him that could work well with the club/team. Still very worried how much control will BT and SL want to try and take on the team selection. And will SL give him at least some of that nest egg for new players. Because I just don't see a top six side in the current squad. I would love to be proved wrong 

COYR

Me neither. And I bet the Luton Town fans didn't see this last year too .

 

[steviestevieneville]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think PA was asked to leave for interference in Commercial deals being struck by the Chairman!

I think there will be a few people involved, Gilhespy, Tins and Marshall at various points of a transfer.

I heard JL wanted to be CEO.

Looking at the mess we’re in marketing wise with the kit handover & splat the robin . It definitley points to JL being all over it 

[Ian M]

2 hours ago, REDOXO said:

That is all very well but expectations are set. Manning got the job for the reasons stated to the stakeholders. 
 

We will see how much money is spent in January, that wasn’t given to Pearson and how that corresponds with our league position at the time. 
 

Regardless of the time going to be given to Manning overall the expectation of giving Manning what he wants to bring in his players and have a run at a top six finish was very real to the bloke I sat with on Saturday and he’s not the only one. 

To be honest, that's straying into "my truth" vs "the truth" territory brought to the fore by Gen Z. 

That said, the players may well respond well to his training methods and we may do excellent business in January and we achieve it anyway. Nothing is impossible in the Championship.

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

I believe that they had decided that NP had served his purpose and done the job he was paid to do and were never going to renew his contract but I agree that there was clearly a clash. I think the health issue brought forward their decision by half a season.

I thought the timing was off but in hindsight believe they made the right decision at the right time. 

I find Liam Manning a breath of fresh air and any nest egg support they give him is fantastic news. The views of some that this is in some way unfair on NP is, quite frankly, absurd.

 

Having decided to bring forward the transition from Nige to "a new guy", I agree it would be absurd not to also bring forward some of our Summer business too. If nothing else, to increase the bedding in period and give us the greatest chance of success next season.

[Curr Avon]

19 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

Me neither. And I bet the Luton Town fans didn't see this last year too .

 

Or the year before, so last year must have been a shock.