Norwich City home match thread

[Pezo]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I won’t be pissed off if we don’t hit top 6 because we WON’T. We just don’t have the players. However a CHANGE was made and over the next three months or so I’m expecting something to CHANGE for the better otherwise it’s a pointless decision that was made.

My positive take on it is Manning is trying to change the style and with this group that takes time. If I’m watching 70/90 minutes of what we served up today come February on a regular basis then the Snake and the Prince of Guernsey need to come out and explain their thinking a bit further.

We won't because we can't, everyone could see it wasn't possible within this squad, it was obvious that Nige was trying to implement the front foot football that the owners want but was limited by the squad, he clearly settled on a kind of front foot football as much as possible in a style that suited the squad in a balancing act.

The owners didn't think that was enough and we could do more so have brought in someone to just play front foot football and when it doesn't work hasn't got a clue what to do.

[Pezo]

Just now, Alex_BCFC said:

Tanner, Weimann, Mehmeti and Cornick all not good enough. Squad needs proper investment now.

OK Vyner messed up but at least he has improved over past 18 months.

 

Not in the last 3 games! Looks like the quality Vyner left with Nige and Holden era Vyner is back to haunt us.

[bearded_red]

46 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

That was, for large portions of the game, a very dull watch. Not overly impressed with “Manning-Ball” so far. 
 

Well he’s had four games and two of them have been two of the most boring I’ve ever had the displeasure of having to watch, (and the first half hour against Middlesbrough was no better). 

If you go down Ashton Gate tonight I’m sure Dickie and Vyner will still be there rolling the ball to each other at walking pace.

Mind numbing football.

[Jerseybean]

1 hour ago, DaveF said:

Very fair assessment. We aren't exciting to watch.

We are actually painful to watch at times! 

[Banjo Island]

We are a painfull watch slow ponderous predictable build up play allowing all 10 norwich outfield players to get behind the ball ending up with a aimless floater into the keepers hands no wonder theres no atmoz at the gate this is horrendous football iam desperate for manning to succeed but not very hopefull

 

[Graham76]

9 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

Well he’s had four games and two of them have been two of the most boring I’ve ever had the displeasure of having to watch, (and the first half hour against Middlesbrough was no better). 

If you go down Ashton Gate tonight I’m sure Dickie and Vyner will still be there rolling the ball to each other at walking pace.

Mind numbing football.

Yeah, but we've had 99.9% possession and the top 3 xG stats in the entire championship!  Who cares about winning anyway?

[Red_Alligator]

We must give young Manning a chance - he didn't take over in some sort of coup.

He was appointed by people confident not only in his ability, but who also felt he could take a "top six ready" squad to its rightful place - perhaps more quickly than NP. 

It's not looking great thus far, but if it doesn't turn out to plan, well, I know precisely who I'll be holding to account.

Let's hope we don't need to go there and the master plan is indeed fit for purpose. 

History would indicate otherwise - that's my main concern. 

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, fanjita said:

First 30mins we certainly didn’t, and after that offered no threat, can’t remember their keeper having to make a save, having lots of possession and doing f all.

 

Missed chances like Wednesday . Tommy scores his 1 on 1 we win comfortably . Saying we’re in relegation trouble which what you did say is utter bollocks . We’re a Decent finisher away from getting 9 points instead of three. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by steviestevieneville

[bearded_red]

2 minutes ago, Graham76 said:

Yeah, but we've had 99.9% possession and the top 3 xG stats in the entire championship!  Who cares about winning anyway?

As I said on the way out, they’re brining in xY for City games. Expected Yawns.

[Alan Dicks]

Been watching City over 50 years.

Seen more disappointing performances than i care to remember, but today i was bored senseless even at ht when we were winning.

I absolutely hate this pass it sideways pass it back then repeat football, it’s boring and not attacking or exciting football.

This is the worst Norwich team I’ve seen for years, yet they’ve beaten us twice.

Jon Lansdown you said we should be competing in the top 6, what are you smoking?

All i have to say is this really is the Lansdowns shitshow.

[Jacki]

That was an incredibly frustrating watch. The last 20 minutes were like an attack v defence drill and the attacks were all pretty much identical. Sideways and backwards passing followed, eventually, by a floaty cross with nobody in the box to get on the end of it. It was so easy to defend against it’s not true.

As for the winner, I really hope we’re not going back to the Vyner of before last season. His OG v Boro was comically bad and he’s been caught in possession numerous times of late which could have led to more goals. The winner today was really, really bad.

I was furious when Nige went and I’ve seen very little since to make me feel any better about the whole situation. 

[mozo]

1 hour ago, Peter1450 said:

It’s almost like our previous manager was overachieving with this squad?

Aren't we in the same position that Nige left us in?

My view is that we're seeing the same outcomes but with different processes. 

All season we've been a team that works hard, shows potential, but is inconsistent, can't sustain good form (even within a single game), and is prone to errors.

I suppose that's what you get with a small squad, an injury curse and a load of players that aren't ready for (or capable of) top end Championship football.

We saw a very Bristol City performance today in my opinion. 

 

[SouthS22]

How did we manage to lose that game?  I thought we actually played pretty well and were the better team for large parts of it.   I don’t mind the passing it about; we built up slowly, moved them around and carved out some good opportunities.   Only one team looked like winning it in the last 20 mins and it wasn’t Norwich.
 

James, Knight and Gardner Hickman mostly bossed the midfield, Tommy looked a threat but didn’t have his shooting boots on again, even Weimann had a half decent first half.  However, Tanner is not a wing back, Sykes wasn’t on it today, and we really lack options off the bench to affect the game - Mehmeti, Cornick and Bell all well off the pace.  Even with them on the pitch, and with Williams not able to find a teammate from 5 yards, we were still the team pushing for the winner at the end.
 

Gutted that the ghost of Vyner past came back to haunt us.  
 

 

[1960maaan]

I'm usually pretty level headed , but today was frustrating.

Get the Ref and Lino out of the way first. Poor Ref, but expected. Lino was so far behind play it was laughable. The one he was a yard or more off followed by the ball being 2 feet out and he was just catching up with play.

I said at half time, lots of people will get bored or complain as we start to get comfortable playing (trying?) possession football . I thought it was working for most of the game, we moved them around and then sped up play and created chances.

Right , those chances. First half we looked better when Sykes moved back out right, carried a threat and scored. Then we went back and created little . Weimann was anonymous for most of the game yet Sykes got hooked , didn't understand that. TC looked lost again, missed his 3rd 1 v1 in 3 games and is wandering around with no urgency , I'd rather see Weimann down the middle because he isn't a wide man.  TGH may have been tiring but it felt like a sub by numbers thing and he had been as good as anyone.
Those subs were baffling.

So frustrating and how we managed to lose that I don't know, but we always look susceptible against a quick break. 
Work in progress , I get that , and TBF I questioned plenty of Pearson's sub moves , but today feels like the substitutions really affected us negatively . 

The day peaked when we got West Ham in the Cup sadly.

[Roger Red Hat]

8 minutes ago, SouthS22 said:

Sykes wasn’t on it today,

He was 'on it' when he had his brief spell on the right! 

[Jose]

5 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

He was 'on it' when he had his brief spell on the right! 

And then moved back to the left. Crazy. 

[The Bard]

54 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

Tanner, Weimann, Mehmeti and Cornick all not good enough. Squad needs proper investment now.

OK Vyner messed up but at least he has improved over past 18 months.

 

Improved under a manager who wants defenders to concentrate on defending rather than possession stats.

[pongo88]

1 hour ago, harvey54 said:

We've lost the best manager we've ever had. Should have been given a new contract and money to spend in January.  The squad were overachieving but they played for him. Just ask a Leicester City fan why they won the Premier League. 

A ******* travesty

I agree with the sentiments of your post but not the bit about Pearson being the best manager we’ve ever had. Although he was good we’ve also had some other good ones over the years. Terry Cooper worked wonders with a mix of non league and cast off players. Before him Alan Dicks got the club into the Division 1. The big difference with Dicks is the board stuck with him (sometimes only just) and he was given time. 

[Spike]

1 hour ago, David Brent said:

What’s happened to Zak? One of the best in the division under Mr Pearson. 

Simply put Zak isn't being protected as he was when Nigel was here. There is a reason Nigel changed us to a back 4 and that was to protect Zak. I've been saying for ages that his positioning and decision making under pressure are awful so what Nigel did was got us to sit deeper and counter attack, this meant the opposition had less space to play into around Zak so he could play with more protection around him and he had less space to cover. 

Manning had us attacking the game today towards the end with a higher line meaning we were on the front foot as opposed to when Nigel coached us we were usually on the back foot under more pressure and looking for that counter. Manning put faith in Zak to be able to cover that space and the goal happened because Zaks positioning was awful and he didn't know where to position himself which has always been his problem. 

The short of it is if we want to play possession football and attack the opposition by pushing the line up then Dickie and Atkinson playing there, Zak will always be prone to mistakes in this new set up. 

1 hour ago, Ivorguy said:

Sorry, I now see no improvement on what Nige would have achieved. His services were dispensed with, as we all know,  because' he spoke his mind

I feel genuinely sorry for LM who was sold a pig in a poke by JL, and BT

 

Don’t folks, expect promotion anytime soon (ie as long as Lansdown’s hang on)

You won't see any improvement until Manning can get the right personnel for this new direction in how we are planning to play. Atkinson needs to replace Vyner and we need creativity on the wings, Weimann won't offer that, Sykes needs to find form and most of all the whole team need to adapt and improve in their passing decisions. 

Nigel has a different approach to most, he looked at what we had and built a system that got the best out of players by supporting those who needed it and building on the strengths in the squad. Manning appears to be taking what we have and finding the best combination to get his system to work, unfortunately we're missing key players for that so he's going to have to get them up to speed or move them on and bring in the quality he needs to make his system work. 

At no point have I said Manning is a better manager or coach, I simply said the only thing I see improvement in was in that we didn't sit back and try and soak up pressure for 30 minutes at the end of the game, instead we pushed forward. Ultimately today that actually cost us, but if we want to win games we do need to start taking control of games and imposing ourselves on the opposition rather than trying to allow them to dictate the game and catch them with a counter attack. 

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

And exactly how many weeks now have you been waiting for Vyner to finally make a mistake?

I mean Vyner is a great professional but as I said above, to get the best out of him you have to build the defense and midfield around him to prevent him being in situations that he cannot handle. If we're going to play possession football where we actually try to impose ourselves on the opposition then we can't do that. Vyner is bad at reading positioning and today was a prime example, his own goal was another as he made a decision based on where he thought Max was. In a back 3 with him on the right or left he's prone to creating spaces behind him by pressing when he shouldn't or by tracking forward when the wing backs push up. 

Vyner is a great bloke, a great professional too, but that comes at a cost. You either set up to protect him from his own mistakes or you will see more incidents like today. 

1 hour ago, ZiderEyed said:

Weimann too. Absolutely done at this level. Had an abysmal season so far, he offers us nothing. 

Agreed, he's got a good attitude and drive but he's never been a player to take a man on, he rarely gets in behind players because we don't play those kinds of passes he thrives on and he's crap at coming in from wide positions to take shots. He works hard but he has no end product in this system. 

I think Manning, with the boards permission, may actually get rid of a few and look for more attacking minded players who are willing to run at a player or play a pass into more central advanced positions but for now Manning is playing a system that we don't have the quality in certain positions to pull off. 

I'm as frustrated as anyone, I'd also take Pearson back in a heart beat because Manning doesn't suit a club who won't invest in his vision and I don't think this club will. Pearson got the lads playing for him, he used strengths to cover weaknesses in players and most importantly he worked to the players strengths rather than asking players to do things that just aren't a part of their game and probably never will be. 

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

37 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Missed chances like Wednesday . Tommy scores his 1 on 1 we win comfortably . Saying we’re in relegation trouble which what you did say is utter bollocks . We’re a Decent finisher away from getting 9 points instead of three. 

I agree, but the problem is that the Lansdowns won't pay the wages that a decent finisher at this level will want.

[harvey54]

2 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

I agree with the sentiments of your post but not the bit about Pearson being the best manager we’ve ever had. Although he was good we’ve also had some other good ones over the years. Terry Cooper worked wonders with a mix of non league and cast off players. Before him Alan Dicks got the club into the Division 1. The big difference with Dicks is the board stuck with him (sometimes only just) and he was given time. 

Whilst I totally accept what you say Dicks had the benefit of a top class coach in Sillett who worked with the squad day to day while Dicks was more of a manager in the "old school' definition of the word. Totally agree with Cooper who took us from rock bottom though. 

[Ivorguy]

1 hour ago, BasSavage88 said:

Because it was so so so much better under Pearson?

We had hope in Nige and respect for what he achieved

Some on here say Manning must be given two windows to get in the players who fit his style

That is not what JL and BT said.  As I understand it Manning was to come in and get an underperforming team to perform.

Can foresee early crisis inJanuary transfer window.

[Roger Red Hat]

44 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Missed chances like Wednesday . Tommy scores his 1 on 1 we win comfortably . Saying we’re in relegation trouble which what you did say is utter bollocks . We’re a Decent finisher away from getting 9 points instead of three. 

I agree.

[Med/MadHatter]

1 hour ago, pillred said:

Rinse and repeat, I have watched a 40-odd-year wash cycle, and still, my shirt says sorry still not ready yet, I did not go down today simply because after 55 years the scales have finally fallen from my eyes, remember this I was 24 years old when we last played in the top flight, I have now been collecting my state pension for nearly Two years, yes really so all you Twenty and Thirty somethings who think it's only a matter of time be afraid very afraid. you like me may NEVER see us play top-flight football again. It's depressing, isn't it?  

Same for me, I was lucky to see City in Division 1 and for the couple of seasons beforehand. I now live thousands of miles away from Bristol so only get to watch on Robins TV and have the same sinking feeling that I will never see City in the top flight again, bloody depressing how fast life and football seasons pass you by

[harvey54]

4 minutes ago, Med/MadHatter said:

Same for me, I was lucky to see City in Division 1 and for the couple of seasons beforehand. I now live thousands of miles away from Bristol so only get to watch on Robins TV and have the same sinking feeling that I will never see City in the top flight again, bloody depressing how fast life and football seasons pass you by

This. First game in 66. Season ticket holder for years until Lee Johnson. Done my time. I might have come back next season for a Pearson/investment push but that's not going to happen now. Johnsons out 

[Bodiesaffer]

2 hours ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Vyner has to do better there

Vyner should of took him out. Not let him get goal side.

[Chrizzler]

1 hour ago, Sturgess said:

To be fair to Tanner, he was often left with an impossible decision; push up in to the mass of space in front of him and leave a big gap in his area of responsibility, or play it safe and reserved. Either way, I was looking at Weimann and expecting him to provide more options out wide as opposed to tucking in.

I really don't understand the constant criticism of Tanner. 

[Ecko]

I wonder how all those BT bots are feeling?

[95red]

Tippy tap shit ,we been had ,enjoy  side ways passing crap happy  clappers ,his  idea's  work when your man city ,got all the badges but a champ squad . 

[Lewisdabaron]

5 hours ago, Lew-T said:

Can they get shot of Downsy fgs…

Embarrassing. 

Pretty sure he announced Harry CornAck as a sub today. Total clown.