Separating the truth from fiction (I’m encouraged)

[Davefevs]

18 minutes ago, TheSpaniard said:

I have to be honest I found the Pearson era thoroughly unenjoyable.

I rather enjoyed it.

I saw (what I felt was) a club coming together.  A bunch of hardworking players, the cosy-club no more.  Experienced players guiding the young ones through.  I saw the emergence of Semenyo as part of WSM…now that was attacking football.  I saw a couple transitions last season, that when we had key players available went toe to toe with some good teams.

Of course there were frustrating moments, of course there were poor performances.

But it was done under considerable financial constraints.

I will look back on Nige’s era with a great deal of fondness.

[lenred]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I rather enjoyed it.

I saw (what I felt was) a club coming together.  A bunch of hardworking players, the cosy-club no more.  Experienced players guiding the young ones through.  I saw the emergence of Semenyo as part of WSM…now that was attacking football.  I saw a couple transitions last season, that when we had key players available went toe to toe with some good teams.

Of course there were frustrating moments, of course there were poor performances.

But it was done under considerable financial constraints.

I will look back on Nige’s era with a great deal of fondness.

I’m constantly surprised at City fans, in some cases some very well respected City fans by some on here, that never ever seem to take the situation Pearson had to rescue us from into account and just comment on how much they disliked his football.  It genuinely blows my mind how people just ignore that fact - still.  Baffling. 

[TheSpaniard]

39 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

And you joined 5 hours ago.....

Yes because I’m actually interested in our club again. 

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I rather enjoyed it.

I saw (what I felt was) a club coming together.  A bunch of hardworking players, the cosy-club no more.  Experienced players guiding the young ones through.  I saw the emergence of Semenyo as part of WSM…now that was attacking football.  I saw a couple transitions last season, that when we had key players available went toe to toe with some good teams.

Of course there were frustrating moments, of course there were poor performances.

But it was done under considerable financial constraints.

I will look back on Nige’s era with a great deal of fondness.

I don’t disagree with any of this - but I didn’t enjoy it at all, partly down to some of the reasons you mention.

[TheSpaniard]

45 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I haven't. The football wasn't fantastic, I'll admit that, but when you look where he started and where he finished in terms of the team ethic/attitude it is chalk and cheese. Only the blind will fail to see that. If you expected anything more than what Pearson (and Richard Gould) delivered with the FFFP issues they had to work under you are living in a fantasy imo.

I think you have misinterpreted my point, I don’t question anything you have highlighted above, I’m just talking about my personal experience of the football, which i didn’t enjoy, bar the emergence of Scott of course.

[bcfc01]

45 minutes ago, TheSpaniard said:

I have to be honest I found the Pearson era thoroughly unenjoyable.

The football was crap at times, but its all about context. I certainly enjoyed the rebuilding of the club that NP, his team, and Richard Gould brought about. I think NP would still be here if RG hadn't moved on.

1 hour ago, TheSpaniard said:

I’ve seen all those things - with a squad that is about as far removed from that style or play as possible, we are asking players such as Williams, Cornick, Bell etc to play fast moving intricate football - I think Manning deserves credit for the progress we have made already, even if it has been displayed only in spells. I find it amazing that you are expecting a side, that has been toothless since the the WSM days to play fast attacking football 5 games in - I’ve seen it in spells already - and if it wasn’t for poor individual mistakes largely by a player who isn’t championship standard we would have had a very positive return.

Personally I’m pleased what I’ve seen so far, and agree wholeheartedly with the original poster - really looking forward to seeing our side for the first time in a long time - and look forward to Manning having 1) time 2) money to spend so we can clear out the deadwood and replace with players more suited to his style. 

I've seen progress and got a glimpse of the identity (to use a buzz phrase) that LM wants to implement. Its fine margins (another buzz phrase) as the very good chances missed, with the defensive howlers and tactics getting bedded in has resulted in a poor points return. I've seen enough to get on board, but we'll see how it is in another 5 games when things should have evened themselves out.

[Davefevs]

A slight variant on a theme!

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

The football was crap at times, but its all about context. I certainly enjoyed the rebuilding of the club that NP, his team, and Richard Gould brought about. I think NP would still be here if RG hadn't moved on.

I've seen progress and got a glimpse of the identity (to use a buzz phrase) that LM wants to implement. Its fine margins (another buzz phrase) as the very good chances missed, with the defensive howlers and tactics getting bedded in has resulted in a poor points return. I've seen enough to get on board, but we'll see how it is in another 5 games when things should have evened themselves out.

Will he interesting to see on the rest but one thing I certainly are on, Richard Gould played his key role in that reset and if he was still here NP definitely would be.

Useful bridge between the board and him IMO. As well as a very good CEO verbatim.

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, Galley is our king said:

And you joined 5 hours ago.....

Hilarious isn’t it

‘Im back’  she cried 

 

 

@TheSpaniard - 

Any chance of actually answering who highly rated Manning and what Clubs had him earmarked as you stated ?

As a returning poster , I’m sure you are offay with the concept

Edited December 10, 2023 by Sheltons Army

[CityReds]

1 hour ago, lenred said:

I’m constantly surprised at City fans, in some cases some very well respected City fans by some on here, that never ever seem to take the situation Pearson had to rescue us from into account and just comment on how much they disliked his football.  It genuinely blows my mind how people just ignore that fact - still.  Baffling. 

I feel he did exactly what we needed from him. The financial situation and squad were in a dire state and we needed safety and stability which NP gave us in buckets. He burnt some bridges recently with his comments and perhaps wrote his future himself by doing it. That’s doesn’t detract from the great job he did though 

[And Its Smith]

A clear change in approach.  Under Pearson we never featured in either of these metrics.  This is a factual post rather than opinion before anyone goes mad!  I’m not saying that this is better or worse but it’s obviously different 

[Mr Popodopolous]

We had 441 accurate v Birmingham in August. Will check a few other games across this and last season..there were games after Christmas 2023 ie early to May 2023 where we became rather possession dominant.

453/600 v Huddersfield in March. The accuracy was lower yes.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

480/571 at a manifestly superior Watford in April. That's accurate to attempted.

[And Its Smith]

20 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We had 441 accurate v Birmingham in August. Will check a few other games across this and last season..there were games after Christmas 2023 ie early to May 2023 where we became rather possession dominant.

453/600 v Huddersfield in March. The accuracy was lower yes.

More talking passes in opposition half to be honest. I can never recall us being in the top 6 performers on a round of matches before. And total passes very rarely. I don’t think anyone can disagree it’s a change. Whether it’s a positive or negative change is subjective 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, And Its Smith said:

More talking passes in opposition half to be honest. I can never recall us being in the top 6 performers on a round of matches before. And total passes very rarely. I don’t think anyone can disagree it’s a change. Whether it’s a positive or negative change is subjective 

Again it needs weighting for opposition somewhat. Huddersfield if you check their numbers although moreso away from home are not a Possession heavy side, quite the reverse.

Am urging a bit of digging and caution basically- is it encouraging yes, do we need to see vs a wider range of opposition also yes. We has a fair bit v Norwich but then their away form is shocking or was over a good period so again a bit of caution.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I'll keep an open mind on our ball retention and the platform that it can provide and no fan of Possession for the hell of it except maybe to kill a game or frustrate the opposition in phases, take the sting out of it is an encouraging metric but context feels key.

[Sir Geoff]

7 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

A clear change in approach.  Under Pearson we never featured in either of these metrics.  This is a factual post rather than opinion before anyone goes mad!  I’m not saying that this is better or worse but it’s obviously different 

Sorry but I don't' see what these stats prove or are being compared against. Could you provide some context ?

The only stat that matters is we scored one goal.

[bcfc01]

8 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

A clear change in approach.  Under Pearson we never featured in either of these metrics.  This is a factual post rather than opinion before anyone goes mad!  I’m not saying that this is better or worse but it’s obviously different 

Best of luck with that...

[And Its Smith]

23 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Sorry but I don't' see what these stats prove or are being compared against. Could you provide some context ?

The only stat that matters is we scored one goal.

If you only worry about the goal scored stat then any context is irrelevant to you so there’s no point in me adding context.  

[Sir Geoff]

16 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

If you only worry about the goal scored stat then any context is irrelevant to you so there’s no point in me adding context.  

Thanks, was just wondering why you were getting excited about accurate passes as we slide down the table.

We obviously have several hundred accurate passes as most of them are pointless tippy tippy passes going sideways and backwards.

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, Sir Geoff said:

Thanks, was just wondering why you were getting excited about accurate passes as we slide down the table.

We obviously have several hundred accurate passes as most of them are pointless tippy tippy passes going sideways and backwards.

I didn’t say it was exciting.  You should get some more sleep maybe! 

[W-S-M Seagull]

12 hours ago, TheSpaniard said:

I’ve seen all those things - with a squad that is about as far removed from that style or play as possible, we are asking players such as Williams, Cornick, Bell etc to play fast moving intricate football - I think Manning deserves credit for the progress we have made already, even if it has been displayed only in spells. I find it amazing that you are expecting a side, that has been toothless since the the WSM days to play fast attacking football 5 games in - I’ve seen it in spells already - and if it wasn’t for poor individual mistakes largely by a player who isn’t championship standard we would have had a very positive return.

Personally I’m pleased what I’ve seen so far, and agree wholeheartedly with the original poster - really looking forward to seeing our side for the first time in a long time - and look forward to Manning having 1) time 2) money to spend so we can clear out the deadwood and replace with players more suited to his style. 

Come on mate, who are you? 

Since you've joined all of your posts have been pro Manning and anti Pearson.

[W-S-M Seagull]

49 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Sorry but I don't' see what these stats prove or are being compared against. Could you provide some context ?

The only stat that matters is we scored one goal.

I suppose what they prove is that we are now a possesion based team. 

These stats are misleading as us passing between our cbs just past the half way line would count as passes in the opposition half. 

I'd be interested to see a touches in box comparison. 

[bexhill reds]

19 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I suppose what they prove is that we are now a possesion based team. 

These stats are misleading as us passing between our cbs just past the half way line would count as passes in the opposition half. 

I'd be interested to see a touches in box comparison. 

Getting dangerously close to close to the LJ box penetration stat…..

[Redland]

22 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

Getting dangerously close to close to the LJ box penetration stat…..

Thought it was “box entry”. Never heard such rubbish from a football manager. He seemed to be trying to convince us that we had done well because we had more box entries than the other team, even though we had lost.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Redland

[bexhill reds]

You’re probably right….just went with the Carry On line. 
 

Let’s hope we don’t return to that type of guff, although “processes and behaviours” is getting close to it.

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Agree, guess that comes from CFG to some extent, doesn’t it….and different to how other teams play.

I do like these charts from The Analyst.

When I hear “front foot, high press, forward thinking, attacking football” my mind thinks Liverpool from what little PL football I see these days.  Villa based on what I saw last night too.  I liked Villa’s style.

I don’t think Man City.  Not seen Ange’s Spurs to comment, sorry.

Re City we are moving slowly right on the x-axis, and down on the y-axis.

That is not the definition in bold lingo above.

Don't get me wrong, we weren’t perfect under Nige either, but this is a discussion about playing style, and it’s not what JL and Tins described.

++++++

Last week I had some discussion on here where it stated City were creating betting chances.  Can’t remember who with.  But the difference was 0.005 xG per game better.  So the other poster was correct, I concede.

But following yesterday, guess what?  It’s now 0.009 xG per game worse!!!

Ok, I’m being facetious with that poster, but I like a bit of a challenge!

 

Yea Liverpool are another team I think of too. 

You should definitely watch Spurs if you get the chance. Their performance yesterday against Newcastle was the perfect example of that type of football. Spurs are actually better without Kane imo.

Tripper was made to look league two standard yesterday by Son. 

Spurs play with advanced inverted full backs which is an interesting concept! 

Conways comments after the game was interesting. He said he's now getting different types of chances and that he's having to adjust to that. 

Previously we presumably played to Tommy's strengths? To give him the type of chances he was good at? 

 

[TheSpaniard]

14 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Need to be a bit careful talking about "deadwood". Some short memories I think. The real "deadwood" consisted of a bloated bunch of absolute tossers not even putting effort in at the training ground (one in particular caught hiding up there) let alone on the pitch. The deadwood you refer to now is an honest bunch of hard working but very average/limited Championship level players recruited or fast tracked from the youth system when we didn't have a pot to piss on on relatively low wages and designed to allow the club to tread water IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP rather than resetting in League 1. We have to be careful when shipping out our low Q squad members that what we replace them with not only has the increased quality we need but also buys in to a very solid and hard working team ethic. We still need to be able to grind out a result like we did yesterday. That must not be compromised otherwise things will unravel very quickly.

Yes fair point - I meant to say players who probably don’t have a long term future here, largely due to not fitting into LM plans and contract running down. The likes of Weimann, Williams and King who I assume won’t be getting new deals.

[Sir Geoff]

2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

I didn’t say it was exciting.  You should get some more sleep maybe! 

6 hour drive to Huddersfield and back over the weekend plus standing in the freezing cold for 2 hours, may not have helped !

Edited December 11, 2023 by Sir Geoff
edit text

[supercidered]

On 09/12/2023 at 17:59, Loosey Boy said:

Just listening to Tommy on Radio Briz, for the first time, it’s really struck me how positive and excited the players seem to be, having LM in charge.

Whilst I didn’t agree with NP going, the “buzz” that TC had on the radio just now, has me looking forward, rather than back.

Let’s hope for another positive result on Tuesday now.

I find it amazing that we as City fans forgive and forget so quickly. (this isn't a dig at you LB). We as fans have been royally f@cked over for many years and the last debacle with NP followed by the LM appointment was the proverbial straw.

I have seen precious little to get excited about since LM came in. I don't see how anyone can see a draw at Huddersfield as a positive result. I've already written this season off as 'also rans'. I'm pretty sure that all we are going to hear now are lines like 'January is a tough time to do business' 'lets see what happens in the summer' ''we need a good pre season'. Same old sh!te and same old mid table obscurity. 

[LondonBristolian]

14 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Need to be a bit careful talking about "deadwood". Some short memories I think. The real "deadwood" consisted of a bloated bunch of absolute tossers not even putting effort in at the training ground (one in particular caught hiding up there) let alone on the pitch. The deadwood you refer to now is an honest bunch of hard working but very average/limited Championship level players recruited or fast tracked from the youth system when we didn't have a pot to piss on on relatively low wages and designed to allow the club to tread water IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP rather than resetting in League 1. We have to be careful when shipping out our low Q squad members that what we replace them with not only has the increased quality we need but also buys in to a very solid and hard working team ethic. We still need to be able to grind out a result like we did yesterday. That must not be compromised otherwise things will unravel very quickly.

Exactly. The other thing to say is we've spent the last three years recruiting to a strategy and the board and Tinnion have clearly stated they see Manning as a continuation of the strategy. Williams is the only existing player who predates that strategy.

If the new manager sees players as "deadwood" then we've recruited the wrong manager and are failing on our own terms. To be clear, I don't have any reason to believe that Manning does hold that view.