Separating the truth from fiction (I’m encouraged)

[steviestevieneville]

3 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Hmmmm not sure about that. 

He played Bell at LWB today. He dropped TGH. He choose the tactics. 

Our results are all on him tbh. 

After being here a month & not having what he would want , better technical players to play the way he wants. Your being very harsh just to prove a point imo 

[Numero Uno]

Just now, bexhill reds said:

At what point does Manning start copping the flack for what he is doing..... Getting a bit bored with the process and behaviours spiel, today it was seemingly stern words at half time. Sooner or later the fan base has to decide whether he is truly the right man for the job. None of the next 6 games could be described as winnable. New Year's Day could be toxic at Ashton Gate.

For me, as long as we don't lose a stupid number of games on the bounce or pick up 8 points out of 30 or something daft like that, I want to see us make noticable improvements with the current squad in what he's trying to do by January, get a couple of reinforcements in, and then by February/March time I am expecting to see performances and results show clear signs that he is the right man to take us forward.

He was given a decent base to take over from but if you are changing style of play, like he obviously is, it does take time.

New Years Day could be toxic or we could be singing "up the football league we go" if we put a run together........until we get there we won't know although my expectation is we'll continue to win a few, draw a few and lose a few.

[Edgy Red]

1 hour ago, Swede said:

We've sold £53M of talent to Bournemouth alone, yet here we are, still a mid table Championship side. We were a mid table side lacking investment under the experienced Pearson before. We are still that same side under the inexperienced Manning. I haven't seen much improvement other than going from side to side in "possession based" football which generally goes nowhere without an end product. Is it exciting? Well, at the moment, no it isn't. 

But... we have to give Manning some time to implement his ideas and style. He's only had a handful of games. Lets review things in 6 to 12 months and see what we think. The early signs for me are encouraging but time will tell.

I've said previously that if you look at the players that were sold/released during Pearsons time in charge, there are only 2 or 3 that can really be considered a huge loss (Scott, Semenyo and Kalas).

The football under Pearson was largely uninspiring so i'm interested to see what Manning can do.

[spudski]

I think there is a common theme between an NP team and a LM team. 

Regardless of possession and formations. 

Both lost goals due to individual errors, rather than the way we are set up. 

And results, regardless of performance, have often been down to making wrong dicisions in the last third, lack of composure and quality when given scoring opportunities. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 minute ago, steviestevieneville said:

After being here a month & not having what he would want , better technical players to play the way he wants. Your being very harsh just to prove a point imo 

I'm being harsh because we played a striker at lwb instead of Pring and we ended up dropping 2 points and dropped TGH who has been one of pur best players recently. 

If you want to take it as proving a point, that says a lot about your mentality because it's clearly me beiing annoyed that we've not won a game that we should have won. 

[Numero Uno]

7 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Hmmmm not sure about that. 

He played Bell at LWB today. He dropped TGH. He choose the tactics. 

Our results are all on him tbh. 

If you take that view you cannot micro-manage it and lose your shit after every defeat labelling him tactically inept or go early after every win and tell us all what a breath of fresh air he is like a few did after Middlesborough (who, after throwing their weight around, seem to be a little quieter at the moment). He's not Nige, he's different and whilst emotions change each week based on the result you have to give him a "period" and then judge imo.

[RedorDead BCFC]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Because the relationship between Nige and the board was deteriorating, and Nige was unable to walk for the last 7 weeks of his employment with no prognosis. 

Thats the bit I think JL alluded to when he said there’s things I don’t want to discuss. 
 

I’ve had two back operations, but when they done mine, they were skeletal. I think it’s been mentioned that Nige’s is neurological which is a lot more difficult to find and sort out. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

11 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

If you take that view you cannot micro-manage it and lose your shit after every defeat labelling him tactically inept or go early after every win and tell us all what a breath of fresh air he is like a few did after Middlesborough (who, after throwing their weight around, seem to be a little quieter at the moment). He's not Nige, he's different and whilst emotions change each week based on the result you have to give him a "period" and then judge imo.

I think due to the whole nature of his arrival. There isn't a settling or honeymoon period. The minimum expectation is that he matches Pearsons PPG and currently we are short of that after 5 games. 

Usually when a new manager comes into a club its because a team is struggling or because the manager has moved to another club. 

Using Rob Edwards as an example, he wasn't Jones but he came in and delivered instant results. That's what I hoped would have happened here but it seems the focus is more on implementation of his style right now ahead of short term results with the belief that these changes will improve our long term results. 

If he would have come in and got 5 wins then we'd not be having this conversation and we'd all be praising him. It works both ways. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by W-S-M Seagull

[bexhill reds]

3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

If you take that view you cannot micro-manage it and lose your shit after every defeat labelling him tactically inept or go early after every win and tell us all what a breath of fresh air he is like a few did after Middlesborough (who, after throwing their weight around, seem to be a little quieter at the moment). He's not Nige, he's different and whilst emotions change each week based on the result you have to give him a "period" and then judge imo.

I agree to a point, but Manning seems to be developing a trait for playing people hopelessly out of position perhaps as an attempt to be a tactical genius or something, Bell today, Sykes in the 1st half against Norwich. Surely if attempting to change the world then at least have stability of position so that everyone knows what they are supposed to be doing.

[Dr Balls]

13 minutes ago, Edgy Red said:

But... we have to give Manning some time to implement his ideas and style. He's only had a handful of games. Lets review things in 6 to 12 months and see what we think. The early signs for me are encouraging but time will tell.

I've said previously that if you look at the players that were sold/released during Pearsons time in charge, there are only 2 or 3 that can really be considered a huge loss (Scott, Semenyo and Kalas).

The football under Pearson was largely uninspiring so i'm interested to see what Manning can do.

Hence my comment about “rinse and repeat” in terms of bringing in more players to play his way, another season written off before it’s really got started. JL said this is a top 6 squad - then Manning should clearly know the requirement this season is a top 6 finish, not another clearing out and building again. 

[steviestevieneville]

8 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'm being harsh because we played a striker at lwb instead of Pring and we ended up dropping 2 points and dropped TGH who has been one of pur best players recently. 

If you want to take it as proving a point, that says a lot about your mentality because it's clearly me beiing annoyed that we've not won a game that we should have won. 

Don’t start with casting aspersions because you don’t like it  back at you . People in glass houses & all that. 
I agree , some of his decisions seem odd at the moment . We don’t know why though. It could be because he hasn’t the players to play how he wants , so he’s adapting . 
No team at any level gets a Devine right to win football matches . We didn’t do enough to win today . You also must realise there are 11 players trying to stop us , right ? .

Are you ok. Genuine question , you come across highly strung , might just be my interpretation . 

[Edgy Red]

2 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Hence my comment about “rinse and repeat” in terms of bringing in more players to play his way, another season written off before it’s really got started. JL said this is a top 6 squad - then Manning should clearly know the requirement this season is a top 6 finish, not another clearing out and building again. 

I don't actually think we're that far off from being a team that can challenge for the top 6. If you take away the top 3 or 4 teams, the rest of the division is pretty similar.

WIth a couple of attacking signings in January and the return of McCrorie and Atkinson, we could kick on in the new year.

[City Rocker]

2 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

For the record, being 10th and a few points off the play offs with a few games left would be considered as challenging for example. Which I think would have been a reasonable expectation for most. 

So essentially, you expected mid-table but hoped for better? Sounds reasonable, I'd still go with that. 

[GrahamC]

10 minutes ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

Thats the bit I think JL alluded to when he said there’s things I don’t want to discuss. 
 

I’ve had two back operations, but when they done mine, they were skeletal. I think it’s been mentioned that Nige’s is neurological which is a lot more difficult to find and sort out. 

For me Pearson was clearly well enough to attend games.

I have no idea how much (if any) coaching he did, Fleming & Euell were perfectly capable & he didn’t need to be there on the training ground all the time.

JL was simply using it as an excuse because he didn’t get on with him.

Results weren’t poor, we were lied to about the actual reason & several other things.

None of this is on Manning by the way.

[Barrs Court Red]

Only an absolute nerd would be that happy with what they’ve seen so far. 
 

I’ve just been out with some proper football men, guys that have played at a high level. The consensus is Manning is well out his depth - Time will tell if they’re absolute dinosaurs, or spot on. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

7 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Don’t start with casting aspersions because you don’t like it  back at you . People in glass houses & all that. 
I agree , some of his decisions seem odd at the moment . We don’t know why though. It could be because he hasn’t the players to play how he wants , so he’s adapting . 
No team at any level gets a Devine right to win football matches . We didn’t do enough to win today . You also must realise there are 11 players trying to stop us , right ? .

Are you ok. Genuine question , you come across highly strung , might just be my interpretation . 

What's with this condescending BS? 

Please dont turn mental health into a point scoring thing. That's not cool. How you've come to the conclusion that being highly strung means someone isn't ok is quite bizarre. I'm fine thank you. Just annoyed we didn't beat one of the poorest teams in the league. 

I think for the both of us it's best that I put you on my ignore list. Best of luck to you. 

[ENOUGH]

2 hours ago, Swede said:

We've sold £53M of talent to Bournemouth alone, yet here we are, still a mid table Championship side. We were a mid table side lacking investment under the experienced Pearson before. We are still that same side under the inexperienced Manning. I haven't seen much improvement other than going from side to side in "possession based" football which generally goes nowhere without an end product. Is it exciting? Well, at the moment, no it isn't. 

Yes but we will push on after the next window and go again after the summer break, then after the present manager is sacked, (for no reason at all really) we will build again with a more exp manager blah blah blah

here we are and here we stay

until the boss gets bored and moves away..

Edited December 9, 2023 by mason

[steviestevieneville]

7 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

What's with this condescending BS? 

Please dont turn mental health into a point scoring thing. That's not cool. How you've come to the conclusion that being highly strung means someone isn't ok is quite bizarre. I'm fine thank you. Just annoyed we didn't beat one of the poorest teams in the league. 

I think for the both of us it's best that I put you on my ignore list. Best of luck to you. 

I’m not being condescending honestly . You get all lairy one minute, then when someone comes back at you , you call the mental health police. You’ve done it plenty of times when someone disagrees. I was being genuine. Anyway it’s good to put me on ignore , I’ll do the same 

[Rob k]

12 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

Only an absolute nerd would be that happy with what they’ve seen so far. 
 

I’ve just been out with some proper football men, guys that have played at a high level. The consensus is Manning is well out his depth - Time will tell if they’re absolute dinosaurs, or spot on. 

What level?

[GrahamC]

2 hours ago, The Nest Egg said:

Boro game was the most fun I've had at Ashton Gate in years to be fair 

Missed Plymouth then?

That was only two months previous, not “years”.

[Barrs Court Red]

12 minutes ago, Rob k said:

What level?

Higher than Liam Manning?  Or do you need more…

[steviestevieneville]

24 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

Only an absolute nerd would be that happy with what they’ve seen so far. 
 

I’ve just been out with some proper football men, guys that have played at a high level. The consensus is Manning is well out his depth - Time will tell if they’re absolute dinosaurs, or spot on. 

The opposite of a football nerd is someone who hasn’t got a ******* clue what they’re talking about . Not pointing a finger in any direction mind . 

[Rob k]

1 minute ago, Barrs Court Red said:

Higher than Liam Manning?  Or do you need more…

So what are they basing it on that Manning is out of his depth after 5 games in charge?

[Kid in the Riot]

31 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

JL was simply using it as an excuse because he didn’t get on with him.

Nige is on record as saying him and JL got on fine, I think the problems lay elsewhere. 

13 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Missed Plymouth then?

That was only two months previous, not “years”.

Plymouth reserves. Let's be honest we were very lucky Schumacher "rested" their best players. He won't be doing that again in a hurry. 

[chinapig]

54 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

I agree to a point, but Manning seems to be developing a trait for playing people hopelessly out of position perhaps as an attempt to be a tactical genius or something, Bell today, Sykes in the 1st half against Norwich. Surely if attempting to change the world then at least have stability of position so that everyone knows what they are supposed to be doing.

I'm certainly not going to judge Manning so early in his tenure. But I do have a nagging concern that he is one of those modern coaches who does what he thinks are funky things that show how sophisticated he is.

It might help if he explained his rationale for some apparently odd decisions. Time will tell no doubt.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

For me, as long as we don't lose a stupid number of games on the bounce or pick up 8 points out of 30 or something daft like that, I want to see us make noticable improvements with the current squad in what he's trying to do by January, get a couple of reinforcements in, and then by February/March time I am expecting to see performances and results show clear signs that he is the right man to take us forward.

He was given a decent base to take over from but if you are changing style of play, like he obviously is, it does take time.

New Years Day could be toxic or we could be singing "up the football league we go" if we put a run together........until we get there we won't know although my expectation is we'll continue to win a few, draw a few and lose a few.

That’s why I’m sitting in my hands until the window is over.

My nagging concern is around the January window - I can’t work out what we need position wise, especially if we keep changing formations.…and you know I’m not big in formations anyway.  But it will influence who we might be interested in and how we evaluate whether they fit.

4213, 343, 3421….

10 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Nige is on record as saying him and JL got on fine, I think the problems lay elsewhere. 

Plymouth reserves. Let's be honest we were very lucky Schumacher "rested" their best players. He won't be doing that again in a hurry. 

That’s way too easy to throw out there.  You’ve still got to go out and beat them.

[Port Said Red]

3 hours ago, Galley is our king said:

Why? Just because you're happy to put up with complete bull shit and LIES from the hierarchy of our club?

Deliberate lies said to get Pearson sacked. JL and BT should hang their heads in shame.

If you don't care that these shocking ******* people are now in charge of our club.....

THEN I DO!!!!!!

What should we be doing then?

[Kid in the Riot]

Just now, Davefevs said:

That’s way too easy to throw out there.  You’ve still got to go out and beat them.

Of course. But context is important, and it was a bizarre error in team selection from Schumacher. 

You can take the wider home record this season under Nige and see there was no improvement. 

[italian dave]

4 hours ago, lenred said:

So we’re back to square one as to why the hell was he given the boot!  And round and round we go…….

Because we’ll probably never know……? 

[Galley is our king]

2 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

What should we be doing then?

As supporters we should be holding those who took the decision to sack Pearson by lying to book.

Just rolling over and having ones tummy tickled is bollocks!

The old east end would have let em know for sure.

Proven liars who do not deserve support from us and will not get another penny from me. 62 years and DONE...