Separating the truth from fiction (I’m encouraged)

[Mr Popodopolous]

Right I've looked at the thread for the Record.

I remember Tinnion saying we play or aspire to play the same way throughout the club at all levels.

System, ethos or a bit of both..

Am I to take it that we are now playing, will play a back 3 or wingbacks- if not we are deviating already, and it was not on the brochure.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Right I've looked at the thread for the Record.

I remember Tinnion saying we play or aspire to play the same way throughout the club at all levels.

System, ethos or a bit of both..

Am I to take it that we are now playing, will play a back 3 or wingbacks- if not we are deviating already, and it was not on the brochure.

If you pay too much attention to what Sid says you will be forever disappointed

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Numero Uno said:

If you pay too much attention to what Sid says you will be forever disappointed

Very true! Albeit I hope the fans react accordingly if this goes belly up.

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Very true! Albeit I hope the fans react accordingly if this goes belly up.

Many will.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Right I've looked at the thread for the Record.

I remember Tinnion saying we play or aspire to play the same way throughout the club at all levels.

System, ethos or a bit of both..

Am I to take it that we are now playing, will play a back 3 or wingbacks- if not we are deviating already, and it was not on the brochure.

Manning has said he means ethos, principles etc, not formation.

Whether Tins interprets the same way, who knows.

But it’s another piece of spin. Because anyone who’s watched the u21s over the past couple of seasons will have seen they were a hard running team, not one to over play and therefore matching first team…regardless of the various formations played.

The hierarchy think they are being all clever when they say things like this. What the eff have they been doing previously would be my response. In fact Tins said exactly the same under Nige. What does that tell you?

That it’s all bollocks. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Many will.

Good.

I hold the hierarchy especially Jon Lansdown and Tinnion and I suppose Steve sets the budgets still, much more to blame than Manning unless we get relegated or something equally disastrous.

He's come into a tough position, but a good one at the same time- The Game article said he came into a club that didn't need much fixing and that nailed it tbh.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[REDOXO]

Commentary below on the situation here in respect of our former manager from various media outlets. 
 

In respect of the thread title the truth is Mr Pearson’s contract was running out and Mr Lansdown jnr had for the second time been called out publicly by Mr Pearson. Particularly the case of the second time in view of the club having no one in charge.
 

The decision was clearly made a long time ago not to renew Mr Pearson’s contract and thus for our stay away chairman the time was right as he was not only making himself look like a knob on a yacht it was being implied publicly by an employee  

The fiction was anything that came out of the mouths of Mr Lansdown jnr and unfortunately that of a club hero and ex manager to justify the paying off of the remainder of the contract.
 

What was particularly galling was the inference that Pearson was incapable of working due to illness “but they couldn’t talk about it contractually” and that players had become unfit due  to Mr Pearson’s thoughts on time off. ******* tosh!

I hope Mr Manning does well, his success is our success! However I hope he gets the picture regarding who he works with and for. 
 

It would be easy to say things about snakes ‘a comment in common use in Oxford’ unfairly I would suggest, but there we have it! Completely nonsensical justifications for firing a guy that was starved of the money he created as the board had no intention of renewing.

I really don’t care about the idea some have about Nigel v Liam and the relative merits. What concerns me is that the club I have supported for 60 years is being controlled by and consults to utterly gutless individuals! 

 

Results far from only issue behind veteran manager's departure. “We all wanted Nigel to achieve our ambition to be promoted but, with our recent results, feel that now is the time to make a change to give the club the best possible chance of success.”Oct 31, 2023 

 

In a statement, Jon Lansdown indicates the decision has been based on results, with City 15th in the Championship and having won two of their last seven games but that has been against the backdrop of Pearson being under-resourced in terms of his squad options.

Analysis - Richard Hoskin, BBC Radio Bristol sport editor

There's been a lot of 'noise' in recent days about the future of Nigel Pearson, ever since he expressed his "irritation" that the club hadn't opened contract negotiations about a new deal.

In his time at Ashton Gate, Pearson has trimmed the squad and wage bill - losing Antoine Semenyo and Alex Scott to Bournemouth, with the significant transfer fees received for these players not appearing to be reinvested in the squad. 

He also gave youngsters like Sam Bell and Tommy Conway opportunities and they're now among key first-team players.

In recent weeks he's been walking with crutches, as he waited for more tests to diagnose a "neurological situation". 

Against Cardiff on Saturday, the Robins were hindered by an ever-growing injury list.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Good.

I hold the hierarchy especially Jon Lansdown and Tinnion and I suppose Steve sets the budgets still, much more than Manning unless we get relegated or something equally disastrous.

He's come into a tough position, her a good one at the same time- The Game article said he came into a club that didn't need much fixing and that nailed it tbh.

Doesn’t need fixing at all. What it needs is moving on a level and I can get on board with Manning doing that providing we don’t go lurching backwards. However, for Manning to truly succeed he needs quality and therefore filfthy lucre……over to Jon and Sid.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Right I've looked at the thread for the Record.

I remember Tinnion saying we play or aspire to play the same way throughout the club at all levels.

System, ethos or a bit of both..

Am I to take it that we are now playing, will play a back 3 or wingbacks- if not we are deviating already, and it was not on the brochure.

I’ve watched the U21s a bit and at various times they’ve played a back four consisting of a CB, Idehen or RA, playing at RB.

Too play any system (stating) the obvious you need the personnel.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Doesn’t need fixing at all. What it needs is moving on a level and I can get on board with Manning doing that providing we don’t go lurching backwards. However, for Manning to truly succeed he needs quality and therefore filfthy lucre……over to Jon and Sid.

I think fully fit or mostly fit most of the time we could have a tilt at top 10 and in the mix for 6th for a while even if unsuccessful, but yeah we do need more expenditure. Should also add I have found the relevant bit, as you didn't need fixing at all.

No prizes for guessing which was which.

"The game offered the strange case of a side deemed almost unfixable against one that did not need fixing"

Edited December 10, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Naismith has a good range of passing when fit, could be useful in a back 3.

My bigger concern is, why are we seemingly shifting to a back 3 again after a whole season indeed almost a whole year of playing and drilling the 4-3-3?

Because the clueless people that run this club didn't actually realise what they were getting with Manning. And if they did then they needed to come out and be honest and tell us that it will take time to transition. 

If you look back through my posts you'll see that I said to me he likes to to play 3 at the back high posession football. 

People may suggest otherwise but to me that doesn't fit the description of high intensity, high pressing attacking football. 

I do not think that we have the players to play the Manning way. His style is more suited to Swansea than us. 

We've spent a long time getting away from it and now we may be back to it. My concern is the club are forever flip flopping in what they want. Let's say for example we now recruit for a 3 at the back and it doesn't work out and then the club decide oh no it was 433 or a variation of that that we wanted. We're then left with players that don't fit that system and then have to once again recruit for another system. 

It's this inconsistent bs that's holding us back and we're forever rebuilding. It concerns me when they say we know what we want but are then forever changing what they want. 

I also think we'll be less likely to see academy players now and our recruitment may see the likes of Bell and Yeboah drop out of the team. 

[TheSpaniard]

9 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Because the clueless people that run this club didn't actually realise what they were getting with Manning. And if they did then they needed to come out and be honest and tell us that it will take time to transition. 

If you look back through my posts you'll see that I said to me he likes to to play 3 at the back high posession football. 

People may suggest otherwise but to me that doesn't fit the description of high intensity, high pressing attacking football. 

I do not think that we have the players to play the Manning way. His style is more suited to Swansea than us. 

We've spent a long time getting away from it and now we may be back to it. My concern is the club are forever flip flopping in what they want. Let's say for example we now recruit for a 3 at the back and it doesn't work out and then the club decide oh no it was 433 or a variation of that that we wanted. We're then left with players that don't fit that system and then have to once again recruit for another system. 

It's this inconsistent bs that's holding us back and we're forever rebuilding. It concerns me when they say we know what we want but are then forever changing what they want. 

I also think we'll be less likely to see academy players now and our recruitment may see the likes of Bell and Yeboah drop out of the team. 

This is just nonsense. Manning is very highly rated and been tipped for championship jobs since the job he did at MK. This idea that BCFC didn’t know what they were getting with him is just pie in the sky made up nonsense. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Because the clueless people that run this club didn't actually realise what they were getting with Manning. And if they did then they needed to come out and be honest and tell us that it will take time to transition. 

If you look back through my posts you'll see that I said to me he likes to to play 3 at the back high posession football. 

People may suggest otherwise but to me that doesn't fit the description of high intensity, high pressing attacking football. 

I do not think that we have the players to play the Manning way. His style is more suited to Swansea than us. 

We've spent a long time getting away from it and now we may be back to it. My concern is the club are forever flip flopping in what they want. Let's say for example we now recruit for a 3 at the back and it doesn't work out and then the club decide oh no it was 433 or a variation of that that we wanted. We're then left with players that don't fit that system and then have to once again recruit for another system. 

It's this inconsistent bs that's holding us back and we're forever rebuilding. It concerns me when they say we know what we want but are then forever changing what they want. 

I also think we'll be less likely to see academy players now and our recruitment may see the likes of Bell and Yeboah drop out of the team. 

Evatt from what I've read at Bolton could have been useful. Decent in possession but a high press too- sounds more like us than Manning and what we've seen so far.

I do hope not, no alignment if so. Bell extended to 2026.

Some of what we have can transfer between the systems, in-game switches also possible but a continuation and building on solid foundations was the remit.

Albeit just checked the last 8 games- Evatt also likes a back 3 so perhaps not but he still would be a closer fit than Manning given the high press.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Sheltons Army]

10 minutes ago, TheSpaniard said:

This is just nonsense. Manning is very highly rated and been tipped for championship jobs since the job he did at MK. This idea that BCFC didn’t know what they were getting with him is just pie in the sky made up nonsense. 

I’m watching waiting to see what Manning is or isnt

but please enlighten as to where this ‘very highly rated and been tipped for championship jobs since the job he did at MK’ claims emanate from....

 

Highly rated by who ?

Tipped for which jobs ?

 

 

* You’re not Brian are you , filling that now vacant social media space....

Edited December 10, 2023 by Sheltons Army

[lenred]

11 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

I’m watching waiting to see what Manning is or isnt

but please enlighten as to where this ‘very highly rated and been tipped for championship jobs since the job he did at MK’ claims emanate from....

 

Highly rated by who ?

Tipped for which jobs ?

Heard this banded about a few times now.  We had to go quick otherwise he was going to get snapped up. By whom is a very good question. I can see some old tenuous links with Cardiff and funnily enough Huddersfield,  but nothing recent at all.   

Edited December 10, 2023 by lenred

[REDOXO]

20 minutes ago, TheSpaniard said:

This is just nonsense. Manning is very highly rated and been tipped for championship jobs since the job he did at MK. This idea that BCFC didn’t know what they were getting with him is just pie in the sky made up nonsense. 

 

18 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

I’m watching waiting to see what Manning is or isnt

but please enlighten as to where this ‘very highly rated and been tipped for championship jobs since the job he did at MK’ claims emanate from....

 

Highly rated by who ?

Tipped for which jobs ?

 

 

* You’re not Brian are you , filling that now vacant social media space....

I’m not sure who is wooshing who here!

Maybe I’ve been double overhead wooshed myself!

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, TheSpaniard said:

This is just nonsense. Manning is very highly rated and been tipped for championship jobs since the job he did at MK. This idea that BCFC didn’t know what they were getting with him is just pie in the sky made up nonsense. 

Have you seen “front foot, high press, forward thinking, attacking football”?

I think that might get challenged under the Trade Descriptions Act.

Thats just more “football lingo” used unintelligently or to sound appealing or to create an impression we are getting something different.  Every club hierarchy trots it out, so do some managers too.  I don’t think everyone in the hierarchy understands what it really means!

Don’t get me wrong, I’m getting what I expected from Manning….but it’s not what the hierarchy told us / journalists we were getting.  I’d rather choose to make my own judgements on how he plays.

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

32 minutes ago, TheSpaniard said:

This is just nonsense. Manning is very highly rated and been tipped for championship jobs since the job he did at MK. This idea that BCFC didn’t know what they were getting with him is just pie in the sky made up nonsense. 

The job he did at MK? The one where he got sacked? 

Not sure if you missed it but I did say Manning would be more suited to a team like Swansea. 

It could be nonsense. However in my opinion, Manning ball doesn't match with what it was stated we wanted. 

I think the club saw that he was a good up and coming coach, saw that others were interested and them jumped in feet first. They decided early on he was their choice, maybe even before Pearson was sacked. In my opinion they failed to do their due diligence. Lets be honest here, it wouldn't be the first time we've failed to do so either! 

[W-S-M Seagull]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Have you seen “front foot, high press, forward thinking, attacking football”?

I think that might get challenged under the Trade Descriptions Act.

Thats just more “football lingo” used unintelligently or to sound appealing or to create an impression we are getting something different.  Every club hierarchy trots it out, so do some managers too.  I don’t think everyone in the hierarchy understands what it really means!

Don’t get me wrong, I’m getting what I expected from Manning….but it’s not what the hierarchy told us / journalists we were getting.  I’d rather choose to make my own judgements on how he plays.

 

For me my own interpretation of that type of football is a bit like how Spurs now play under Ange. Win the ball back with intensity and then look to quickly attack. 

Thats what was sold to us. 

Our players are more suited to that sort of system. 

Manning ball is a bit more Man City than Spurs. My issue is that we don't really have the players to play that way so therefore to some extent there is going to have to be a rebuild with no guarantees that the rebuild will be a success. 

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

For me my own interpretation of that type of football is a bit like how Spurs now play under Ange. Win the ball back with intensity and then look to quickly attack. 

Thats what was sold to us. 

Our players are more suited to that sort of system. 

Manning ball is a bit more Man City than Spurs. My issue is that we don't really have the players to play that way so therefore to some extent there is going to have to be a rebuild with no guarantees that the rebuild will be a success. 

Agree, guess that comes from CFG to some extent, doesn’t it….and different to how other teams play.

I do like these charts from The Analyst.

When I hear “front foot, high press, forward thinking, attacking football” my mind thinks Liverpool from what little PL football I see these days.  Villa based on what I saw last night too.  I liked Villa’s style.

I don’t think Man City.  Not seen Ange’s Spurs to comment, sorry.

Re City we are moving slowly right on the x-axis, and down on the y-axis.

That is not the definition in bold lingo above.

Don't get me wrong, we weren’t perfect under Nige either, but this is a discussion about playing style, and it’s not what JL and Tins described.

++++++

Last week I had some discussion on here where it stated City were creating betting chances.  Can’t remember who with.  But the difference was 0.005 xG per game better.  So the other poster was correct, I concede.

But following yesterday, guess what?  It’s now 0.009 xG per game worse!!!

Ok, I’m being facetious with that poster, but I like a bit of a challenge!

 

[Topper 123]

NOBODY CAN DO THIS JOB WITHOUT THE TOOLS , if the lansdowns don’t supply the tools for the job the failure is upon them NOT THE MANAGERS 

[Silvio Dante]

Just now, Topper 123 said:

NOBODY CAN DO THIS JOB WITHOUT THE TOOLS , if the lansdowns don’t supply the tools for the job the failure is upon them NOT THE MANAGERS 

I agree with this, but I think the point most are making that under Pearson (or continuation candidate), we probably needed a hammer and a new Phillips screwdriver. Under Manning, it’s more like needing that geezer in the Ryobi adverts garage full of tools, because the tools we’ve got aren’t the ones this particular carpenter requires.

To mix the metaphor a bit, in the words of Geoffrey Howe, the batsmen have gone to the wicket and found their bats broken by the captain.

[DaveInSA]

I'm drawing a line under the BS from Tinnion, Lansdown and all the rest of the Lansdown brigade. It's all a complete fabrication of where we are as a club, ITO the talent we have and what "style" of football we can play. It's all smoke and mirrors.

We have a mid table (position 8-15) squad. We have a couple of players who would get into top 6 sides. That's it.

If, Manning can do a Luton then god bless him.

It will be a massive surprise to me if we are 8th and above. And we'll have done something royally bad to finish lower than 16th.

 

[fisherrich]

9 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

I'm drawing a line under the BS from Tinnion, Lansdown and all the rest of the Lansdown brigade. It's all a complete fabrication of where we are as a club, ITO the talent we have and what "style" of football we can play. It's all smoke and mirrors.

We have a mid table (position 8-15) squad. We have a couple of players who would get into top 6 sides. That's it.

If, Manning can do a Luton then god bless him.

It will be a massive surprise to me if we are 8th and above. And we'll have done something royally bad to finish lower than 16th.

 

I’m happy to give Manning the time of day as not his fault but the Lansdowns have to go NOW al9mg with there hangers on. Fed up with all the bull shit and lies. Treating City football fans like punters does not wash with me.

[TheSpaniard]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Have you seen “front foot, high press, forward thinking, attacking football”?

I think that might get challenged under the Trade Descriptions Act.

Thats just more “football lingo” used unintelligently or to sound appealing or to create an impression we are getting something different.  Every club hierarchy trots it out, so do some managers too.  I don’t think everyone in the hierarchy understands what it really means!

Don’t get me wrong, I’m getting what I expected from Manning….but it’s not what the hierarchy told us / journalists we were getting.  I’d rather choose to make my own judgements on how he plays.

 

I’ve seen all those things - with a squad that is about as far removed from that style or play as possible, we are asking players such as Williams, Cornick, Bell etc to play fast moving intricate football - I think Manning deserves credit for the progress we have made already, even if it has been displayed only in spells. I find it amazing that you are expecting a side, that has been toothless since the the WSM days to play fast attacking football 5 games in - I’ve seen it in spells already - and if it wasn’t for poor individual mistakes largely by a player who isn’t championship standard we would have had a very positive return.

Personally I’m pleased what I’ve seen so far, and agree wholeheartedly with the original poster - really looking forward to seeing our side for the first time in a long time - and look forward to Manning having 1) time 2) money to spend so we can clear out the deadwood and replace with players more suited to his style. 

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Have you seen “front foot, high press, forward thinking, attacking football”?

I think that might get challenged under the Trade Descriptions Act.

Thats just more “football lingo” used unintelligently or to sound appealing or to create an impression we are getting something different.  Every club hierarchy trots it out, so do some managers too.  I don’t think everyone in the hierarchy understands what it really means!

Don’t get me wrong, I’m getting what I expected from Manning….but it’s not what the hierarchy told us / journalists we were getting.  I’d rather choose to make my own judgements on how he plays.

 

If it was just Jon Lansdown who trotted this out it wouldn't be half as bad to be fair. We could file his comments in the "doesn't know enough about football" folder and move on. However when the "football man" tells us that is what we are looking for then that is a completely different ball game. I would expect someone with 600+ games of pro football under his belt and doing the job he does to KNOW EXACTLY who the managers are that play the way he says we are moving towards. On initial evidence, Liam Manning isn't that and I cannot believe for a second that what we have seen in the first five games (in twenty minute spells but we have seen it nonetheless) is some sort of smokescreen before we change it again and go all front foot, high press, in your faces football. What Manning is delivering in patches is what we are going to get and, as a number have picked up, it's not the same as what we were promised.

However, we've got Manning now, no use crying about it, and as long as his type of football works, gets results, improves our home record and is enjoyable then I'll more than happily jump on board, support it and give him the praise he deserves. However I cannot extend that support to someone in a crucial position in the club, who played a significant part in getting the previous Manager booted out, tells us very clearly what we weren't producing and therefore what the club is looking for and then plays a significant part in recruiting what the evidence is suggesting to be the complete opposite. Because using the very helpful graphs above we appear to be in the polar opposite corner of the graph to where the Director de Tecknique said and moving AWAY from his stated direction of travel if anything. Wasn't there a point where he thought and might have said "Jon, appointing this guy is going to deliver something different than what we have just told the fans?".

If this guy comes off, and I so hope he does otherwise we are in trouble, it will be despite of not because of the hierarchy who have appointed someone delivering the complete opposite of their stated aims!! Absolute madness in that Boardroom, like a bloody soap opera down there.

[TheSpaniard]

4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

If it was just Jon Lansdown who trotted this out it wouldn't be half as bad to be fair. We could file his comments in the "doesn't know enough about football" folder and move on. However when the "football man" tells us that is what we are looking for then that is a completely different ball game. I would expect someone with 600+ games of pro football under his belt and doing the job he does to KNOW EXACTLY who the managers are that play the way he says we are moving towards. On initial evidence, Liam Manning isn't that and I cannot believe for a second that what we have seen in the first five games (in twenty minute spells but we have seen it nonetheless) is some sort of smokescreen before we change it again and go all front foot, high press, in your faces football. What Manning is delivering in patches is what we are going to get and, as a number have picked up, it's not the same as what we were promised.

However, we've got Manning now, no use crying about it, and as long as his type of football works, gets results, improves our home record and is enjoyable then I'll more than happily jump on board, support it and give him the praise he deserves. However I cannot extend that support to someone in a crucial position in the club, who played a significant part in getting the previous Manager booted out, tells us very clearly what we weren't producing and therefore what the club is looking for and then plays a significant part in recruiting what the evidence is suggesting to be the complete opposite. Because using the very helpful graphs above we appear to be in the polar opposite corner of the graph to where the Director de Tecknique said and moving AWAY from his stated direction of travel if anything. Wasn't there a point where he thought and might have said "Jon, appointing this guy is going to deliver something different than what we have just told the fans?".

If this guy comes off, and I so hope he does otherwise we are in trouble, it will be despite of not because of the hierarchy who have appointed someone delivering the complete opposite of their stated aims!! Absolute madness in that Boardroom, like a bloody soap opera down there.

I have to be honest I found the Pearson era thoroughly unenjoyable.

[Numero Uno]

13 minutes ago, TheSpaniard said:

I’ve seen all those things - with a squad that is about as far removed from that style or play as possible, we are asking players such as Williams, Cornick, Bell etc to play fast moving intricate football - I think Manning deserves credit for the progress we have made already, even if it has been displayed only in spells. I find it amazing that you are expecting a side, that has been toothless since the the WSM days to play fast attacking football 5 games in - I’ve seen it in spells already - and if it wasn’t for poor individual mistakes largely by a player who isn’t championship standard we would have had a very positive return.

Personally I’m pleased what I’ve seen so far, and agree wholeheartedly with the original poster - really looking forward to seeing our side for the first time in a long time - and look forward to Manning having 1) time 2) money to spend so we can clear out the deadwood and replace with players more suited to his style. 

Need to be a bit careful talking about "deadwood". Some short memories I think. The real "deadwood" consisted of a bloated bunch of absolute tossers not even putting effort in at the training ground (one in particular caught hiding up there) let alone on the pitch. The deadwood you refer to now is an honest bunch of hard working but very average/limited Championship level players recruited or fast tracked from the youth system when we didn't have a pot to piss on on relatively low wages and designed to allow the club to tread water IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP rather than resetting in League 1. We have to be careful when shipping out our low Q squad members that what we replace them with not only has the increased quality we need but also buys in to a very solid and hard working team ethic. We still need to be able to grind out a result like we did yesterday. That must not be compromised otherwise things will unravel very quickly.

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, TheSpaniard said:

I have to be honest I found the Pearson era thoroughly unenjoyable.

I haven't. The football wasn't fantastic, I'll admit that, but when you look where he started and where he finished in terms of the team ethic/attitude it is chalk and cheese. Only the blind will fail to see that. If you expected anything more than what Pearson (and Richard Gould) delivered with the FFFP issues they had to work under you are living in a fantasy imo.

[Galley is our king]

9 minutes ago, TheSpaniard said:

I have to be honest I found the Pearson era thoroughly unenjoyable.

And you joined 5 hours ago.....