Still early days

[Sheltons Army]

36 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

GJ didn't outstay his welcome afaic, several non trying mutinous players should have been booted out of the club rather than him leaving.

As for LJ, he should never have been welcomed in the first place.

Two nails smashed on the head there Nogs

[KingHillRed]

36 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So, you are saying he’s a fixed ideas coach then, a single way of playing? That’s not what he told us, nor what he’s said prior to coming here.  It’s not what we’ve seen either.

If teething issues continue, and continue to be as fundamental as they appear after 6 games, then we are gonna be miles away from what the hierarchy declared…and a still a long way from what sensible fans realised.  You’re making a big assumption they are teething problems.

Transition isn’t always achieved through having time / more time.  Transition can be achieved in many different ways.

Your view of LM and his capability is a very worrying viewpoint!

I think a lot of us had our minds made up on LM from day one

Are footballers and football managers just robots these days that have to instantly a) understand and b) adapt at the drop of a hat

Maybe that is the expectation from us fans, but the reality is there is a "human" element to all of this

Whether or not we like it, you have to give time to a manager and the players to be able to execute a style of play - especially if, seemingly, training is not playing out in games

What should happen - give a manager 6 games and expect Pep style tiki taka

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Excellent post

The Highlighted para is such a good point and was discussed excellently on the FBC Podcast this morning @headhunter 

It was a good watch. 

However I do remember the pod they made upon Manning being appointed and none of them raised these concerns about his inexperience or having no experience around him.

They all overlooked these things because they were a bit over exuberant about the appointment. 

[Natchfever]

30 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Funny how several have appeared in the last 24 hours.

There are plenty of established forum members who adopt opposing positions. Absolutely no need for this cack handed infiltration tactic as it greatly undermines what is a (minority it seems but) genuine fan point of view. Another on the ignore 

[Alessandro]

1 hour ago, KingHillRed said:

That isn't how things work in reality though is it

You are employed to implement your style of play on the playing squad as quickly as possible, accepting the teething issues that come with it

"Slowly" implement - come on, this is the championship, nothing is done slowly

These issues are inevitable but you need time to transition away from old style and into new - that is all this is

You’re talking like you have an idea how it works? Do you?

With respect, unless that’s you Luke, you’re not a championship manager - so you have no clue in reality. 
 

If it is you Luke, well it’s not working.

So it’s all opinions and other opinions, backed up by performances and more importantly results - suggest you’re wrong.

But as you say, it’s the championship - exactly why you don’t rip up the process and experiment 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by Alessandro

[Sheltons Army]

2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

It was a good watch. 

However I do remember the pod they made upon Manning being appointed and none of them raised these concerns about his inexperience or having no experience around him.

They all overlooked these things because they were a bit over exuberant about the appointment. 

Yes

Having someone prepared to challenge Ian Gay (Mark does try occasionally but normally gets shouted down) at least made it a debate and a more interesting listen , with , as I said some excellent interesting. discussion points.

 

I heard Ian Gay still spouting that ‘NP would still be in a job if he hadn’t thrown hand grenades’  nonsense but I didn’t hear him labelling Sam Bell as a LWB with his ‘Antic not tactic’ (yawn) label as he with nodding agreement from others did when NP played AS and particularly SB at RWB / RB

[KingHillRed]

2 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

There are plenty of established forum members who adopt opposing positions. Absolutely no need for this cack handed infiltration tactic as it greatly undermines what is a (minority it seems but) genuine fan point of view. Another on the ignore 

I've been a fan since early 90's Natch - happy to converse on anything City

Anyone new with a an opinion that differs from the masses is shot down - I get it - but it isn't fair

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 minutes ago, KingHillRed said:

I think a lot of us had our minds made up on LM from day one

Are footballers and football managers just robots these days that have to instantly a) understand and b) adapt at the drop of a hat

Maybe that is the expectation from us fans, but the reality is there is a "human" element to all of this

Whether or not we like it, you have to give time to a manager and the players to be able to execute a style of play - especially if, seemingly, training is not playing out in games

What should happen - give a manager 6 games and expect Pep style tiki taka

No, what should have happened was we appoint a manager that fits with our style and fits with the remit that was given. 

Or Manning should have came in and adapted his style to the squad he has. 

Someone ****** up here. Absolutely nobody from the club said we'd be having a change of style. So can you understand why people are pissed off? 

Once again, what guarantee is there that this change of style will deliver better long term results? 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 minute ago, KingHillRed said:

I've been a fan since early 90's Natch - happy to converse on anything City

Anyone new with a an opinion that differs from the masses is shot down - I get it - but it isn't fair

About the same time that JL also became a fan.

[KingHillRed]

2 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

You’re talking like you have an idea how it works? Do you?

With respect, unless that’s you Luke, you’re not a championship manager - so you have no clue in reality. 
 

If it is you Luke, well it’s not working.

So it’s all opinions and other opinions, backed up by performances and more importantly results - suggest you’re wrong.

But as you say, it’s the championship - exactly why you don’t rip up the process and experiment 

 

But we have ripped it up

So what are the options:

 - Get behind new gaff and see positives over negatives

 - Moan about the shoulda/coulda/woulda

I personally opt for the former

I'm not a championship manager but I also understand these boys are not robots 

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Cov 77 said:

7 points actually off relegation spot and 7 points off the play offs ( our more realistic target we are told ) 

We'd royally **** it up if we ever got to the play offs again imo. 

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, KingHillRed said:

But we have ripped it up

So what are the options:

 - Get behind new gaff and see positives over negatives

 - Moan about the shoulda/coulda/woulda

I personally opt for the former

I'm not a championship manager but I also understand these boys are not robots 

And therein is your contradiction.

You rightly say these boys aren’t robots, but then also make excuses for Manning trying to directly impose a style immediately (and in his words overloading them) when they may not suit or even understand what he wants them to do.

If he understands they’re not robots, then he should also understand they can’t implement pages 216-274 of the big book of coaching and he might need to adapt his style. Every other coach that has been a success does that, and not all of them had the platform of a side flirting with the playoffs when they took over.

[Alessandro]

1 minute ago, KingHillRed said:

But we have ripped it up

So what are the options:

 - Get behind new gaff and see positives over negatives

 - Moan about the shoulda/coulda/woulda

I personally opt for the former

I'm not a championship manager but I also understand these boys are not robots 

Do you know what - I’m sick of this kind of reply. 

Lemming ‘it is what it is’ attitude.

Sorry not for me anymore. Not after years of the same mistakes made by the Lansdowns - constantly going around in circles. I supported them for years but they’ve lost me.

We as fans have a voice and I intend to use it - not just fall in line ‘because’.

Why? Because I aspire for so much for this club. 
 

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 minutes ago, KingHillRed said:

But we have ripped it up

So what are the options:

 - Get behind new gaff and see positives over negatives

 - Moan about the shoulda/coulda/woulda

I personally opt for the former

I'm not a championship manager but I also understand these boys are not robots 

Manning is a 'Championship' manager and he doesn't understand that these boys are not robots. Hence his comments that he thinks he may have overloaded them with information. 

[RollsRoyce]

Manning was brought in to take the current squad closer to a promotion finish. Not in 2 years, not after 4 transfer windows, this season. It is exactly the same principle as when you change the coach/manager to avoid relegation. You cannot talk about the early days. It is now. So yes, he has to be judged by the here and now. Steve Cooper managed it at Notts F did he not? That we have decided to bring in a coach that plays a type of football alien to the club, and that includes youth team to the first team, is an error that can have fatal consequences. This was meant to be about making a push with the existing squad now. This season. What we are seeing is a deterioration in performances, as players are unable, in transition, learning, wherever each individual may be on that journey to adapt.

This is a whole club rebuild, we are not playing the football Tinnion described in his in-house interview (so he knew the questions) , where we play the same way from youth to first team. Forget the nonsense of "front foot football", we are now heading in a Man City (to give a topline example) and not a Liverpool direction. These are not small changes, they are fundamentals. This is yet another example of where the club has flip-flopped from one approach to another. We are certainly not following any of the Brentford/Luton examples cited in the past. Because you need to be consistent. For years. 

Manning will need to learn fast, he looks like a crossbreed of O'Driscol and Lee J , but all top managers, well he is a coach, not a manager, will tell you that you need to maximise your resources and adapt to them.

Performances are good? Not sure what games some are watching, but you are clutching at straws. Our defence has reverted to the error-strewn version of 2/3 years ago, which was sorted out by great coaching and player management, and is now looking like a fishing net full of holes. We may create a few more attacking options, but for the most part it has turned AG into a morgue. 

Manning needs to start finding solutions and fast. His remit was top 6 and a promotion push not a relegation battle or 4 transfer windows to deliver. He is not getting the best out of this squad, it is a limited squad of course, but it should be in the mix with the other 10 teams chasing that 5/6 th spot. At the moment, if results do not improve, we are looking at the bottom 6, not the top 6. The team is still in that mid-table mass of teams, so all is not lost, but it needs to start pointing in the right direction very soon. 

Manning has to deliver, and the continued creation of excuses for him is unacceptable. He was hired to deliver a result, and there are clear club-created communications on this, not fan-generated. How some are now wanting to play that down is ridiculous. What, were they joking? I doubt the ability of those at the club, but we are regressing, not progressing. Manning was meant to boost the team, results and performances and thus far has failed to do that. 

Swansea was the club for Manning. 

[AshtonGreat]

1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

And therein is your contradiction.

You rightly say these boys aren’t robots, but then also make excuses for Manning trying to directly impose a style immediately (and in his words overloading them) when they may not suit or even understand what he wants them to do.

If he understands they’re not robots, then he should also understand they can’t implement pages 216-274 of the big book of coaching and he might need to adapt his style. Every other coach that has been a success does that, and not all of them had the platform of a side flirting with the playoffs when they took over.

Flirting with the play-offs is a bit of a stretch

[Silvio Dante]

Just now, AshtonGreat said:

Flirting with the play-offs is a bit of a stretch

4 points off the playoffs on taking charge and in 10th place is definitely flirting. It’s not full on rubbing your backside against a crotch but it’s definitely giving the eye from across the room. Wouldn’t be a guarantee it would come to anything, but it is 100% flirting.

[Red-Robbo]

If he could just cut down the unnecesaary and counter-productive substitutions we'd give ourselves a much better chabce of winning games. 

[BigAl&Toby]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

No, they haven’t imho.

They have been mixed.

FWIW I see what he is trying to implement too, but I also see what he is breaking in the process.

Indeed.

Results have been poor. It’s a results game.

Performance counts for very little if you ain’t winning and putting points on the board.

I see what he’s doing too. But the thing is we’ve not got the players to do that. And apart from a few odd matches or runs we’ve not had a good enough squad for many years.

The thing that really ***** me off is how Lansdown has had us over. Time and time again.

And many know now thoughts on his reason for his investment. He doesn’t give a flying **** about BCFC. Never has, never will.

His dabbling has simply been about a business venture. An investment. Partly In freeholds, partly in a revenue stream.

FWIW I was there when the ****** said - many years ago.

And as for that *** Tinnion. He can join the Lansdown’s when the time comes.

It’s not just Manning that’s out of his depth. The lot of them are.

[AshtonGreat]

5 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

4 points off the playoffs on taking charge and in 10th place is definitely flirting. It’s not full on rubbing your backside against a crotch but it’s definitely giving the eye from across the room. Wouldn’t be a guarantee it would come to anything, but it is 100% flirting.

With less than a third of the season played though...?

[KingHillRed]

Maybe I was too aggressive in my points, but all I am saying is that the whole process needs some time - I guess I feel bad for LM, he looked deflated

I agree that he shouldn't get years in time, but not 6 games either

Football can turn on a dime and this is the sport we all know and love

 

 

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

Funny how several have appeared in the last 24 hours.

And all of the original one's that joined just before NP going are no longer around. They just wheel them out to sign up new accounts when they need them.

[Silvio Dante]

Just now, AshtonGreat said:

With less than a third of the season played though...?

Have you never pulled at 7pm and not had to continue to the clubs? 
 

It was 15 games in. That’s near as damnit a third. I’m not saying we’d have made the playoffs - I’m saying if you offered most managers a side 4 points off the playoffs after 1/3 of the season it’d be considered in most cases a good platform for a possible push. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 minutes ago, spudski said:

We'd royally **** it up if we ever got to the play offs again imo. 

Let's be honest, top 2 is borderline nailed down with Parachute clubs albeit Ipswich are currently doing something remarkable.

Ipswich have very much avoided injuries, something fairly remarkable.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, bexhill reds said:

Brand new account, we are arguing with either a Bristol Sport employee or a troll.

Block and not worth the time and effort of a reasoned or sensible argument, you can’t debate an agenda. There’s a few accounts like this on the forum at present. All with much the same type of post.

 

I don’t care about their origins, or reasons for joining.  But if you ignore, then their views become unchallenged and become “fact”.

Its about opinions on here in the main, and if I agree or disagree I feel it’s worth posting.

There are a few exceptions, the obvious trolls for example.

37 minutes ago, KingHillRed said:

I think a lot of us had our minds made up on LM from day one

Are footballers and football managers just robots these days that have to instantly a) understand and b) adapt at the drop of a hat

Maybe that is the expectation from us fans, but the reality is there is a "human" element to all of this

Whether or not we like it, you have to give time to a manager and the players to be able to execute a style of play - especially if, seemingly, training is not playing out in games

What should happen - give a manager 6 games and expect Pep style tiki taka

I think it’s easy to throw that out there.  I think if you’ve been reading ahead of joining, most actually sympathise with the situation LM has come into, and it’s the hierarchy most are annoyed with.

But now having seen 6 games there are pros and cons to discuss, and they are valid to discuss too.  That’s reflection, not pre-judgement, nor final judgement either.  Saying it’s gonna get better with no evidence is no better is it?

24 minutes ago, KingHillRed said:

But we have ripped it up

So what are the options:

 - Get behind new gaff and see positives over negatives

 - Moan about the shoulda/coulda/woulda

I personally opt for the former

I'm not a championship manager but I also understand these boys are not robots 

Why has it been ripped up (if indeed it has)?

As above those that are moaning (and it’s not all) are moaning about their observations, just like some are praising what they’ve seen.

I’m not sure the relevance of “robots”

18 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

And therein is your contradiction.

You rightly say these boys aren’t robots, but then also make excuses for Manning trying to directly impose a style immediately (and in his words overloading them) when they may not suit or even understand what he wants them to do.

If he understands they’re not robots, then he should also understand they can’t implement pages 216-274 of the big book of coaching and he might need to adapt his style. Every other coach that has been a success does that, and not all of them had the platform of a side flirting with the playoffs when they took over.

I think that is the bit that keeps getting forgotten.  This was a solid team that the hierarchy thought needed coaching to kick-on.  This wasn’t a club needing quick-jerk change.  It was in 11th place with equal wins and losses.

By adopting LM’s (in KingHillRed’s opinion) “only way” he’s missing the opportunity to evaluate what is here, what works, what doesn’t, what can be done with what he’s got, what he can’t, etc.. by jumping straight in, he’s missed that golden opportunity!

1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

Have you never pulled at 7pm and not had to continue to the clubs? 
 

It was 15 games in. That’s near as damnit a third. I’m not saying we’d have made the playoffs - I’m saying if you offered most managers a side 4 points off the playoffs after 1/3 of the season it’d be considered in most cases a good platform for a possible push. 

Haha - my mate used to say a similar thing - do you get the 11 o/c girl or the 2am one!

[Galley is our king]

2 hours ago, KingHillRed said:

I'm confused - wouldn't you expect an element of 'breaking' old systems in favour of new ones if trying to adapt a new style

I think everyone thinks we were Real Madrid before Nige left - we weren't and performances were stale for a while

New ideas, new tactics, new learning approach - it is normal to take time isn't it?

And you joined 3 hours ago.....

[W-S-M Seagull]

29 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

Manning was brought in to take the current squad closer to a promotion finish. Not in 2 years, not after 4 transfer windows, this season. It is exactly the same principle as when you change the coach/manager to avoid relegation. You cannot talk about the early days. It is now. So yes, he has to be judged by the here and now. Steve Cooper managed it at Notts F did he not? That we have decided to bring in a coach that plays a type of football alien to the club, and that includes youth team to the first team, is an error that can have fatal consequences. This was meant to be about making a push with the existing squad now. This season. What we are seeing is a deterioration in performances, as players are unable, in transition, learning, wherever each individual may be on that journey to adapt.

This is a whole club rebuild, we are not playing the football Tinnion described in his in-house interview (so he knew the questions) , where we play the same way from youth to first team. Forget the nonsense of "front foot football", we are now heading in a Man City (to give a topline example) and not a Liverpool direction. These are not small changes, they are fundamentals. This is yet another example of where the club has flip-flopped from one approach to another. We are certainly not following any of the Brentford/Luton examples cited in the past. Because you need to be consistent. For years. 

Manning will need to learn fast, he looks like a crossbreed of O'Driscol and Lee J , but all top managers, well he is a coach, not a manager, will tell you that you need to maximise your resources and adapt to them.

Performances are good? Not sure what games some are watching, but you are clutching at straws. Our defence has reverted to the error-strewn version of 2/3 years ago, which was sorted out by great coaching and player management, and is now looking like a fishing net full of holes. We may create a few more attacking options, but for the most part it has turned AG into a morgue. 

Manning needs to start finding solutions and fast. His remit was top 6 and a promotion push not a relegation battle or 4 transfer windows to deliver. He is not getting the best out of this squad, it is a limited squad of course, but it should be in the mix with the other 10 teams chasing that 5/6 th spot. At the moment, if results do not improve, we are looking at the bottom 6, not the top 6. The team is still in that mid-table mass of teams, so all is not lost, but it needs to start pointing in the right direction very soon. 

Manning has to deliver, and the continued creation of excuses for him is unacceptable. He was hired to deliver a result, and there are clear club-created communications on this, not fan-generated. How some are now wanting to play that down is ridiculous. What, were they joking? I doubt the ability of those at the club, but we are regressing, not progressing. Manning was meant to boost the team, results and performances and thus far has failed to do that. 

Swansea was the club for Manning. 

Probably the best ever post I've ever read on here

[REDOXO]

3 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

I think 90% of frustrated fans aren't frustrated with Manning. They're frustrated that for the first time in years we were looking up the table, the Lansdown's inexplicably decided that was the time for a change, and now we're back to looking over our shoulder. We've wasted many years as is, but never by actively choosing to do so.

Exactly. All this give him time rubbish. We gave Pearson time and he got out of FFP issues brought through our youngsters sold two of them for a combined total in excess of 37 million made us competitive, stopped us from conceding from dead balls and had us to a point where we would be challenging if some of the nest egg was available to him….but what does Lansdown jnr and Tinnion do….Press the destruct button and bring in a new guy who has never managed at this level, never had real money to spend and give the money to him as our players aren’t what is required to play the only way he wants to play. 
 

You could not make this up anywhere EXCEPT BRISTOL ******* CITY!!

Junior needs to bugger off back to his yacht and resign the Chairmanship The new Chairman needs to fire Tinnion. Then maybe explain why the previous administration really fired The Previous Chief Exec after three months and fire Nigel Pearson.
 

Now then I’ll give it time!

[Galley is our king]

47 minutes ago, KingHillRed said:

I've been a fan since early 90's Natch - happy to converse on anything City

Anyone new with a an opinion that differs from the masses is shot down - I get it - but it isn't fair

Get back to work, oh sorry I forgot, this is work isn't it eh? Being paid by Bristol Sport and all....

[Silvio Dante]

5 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Now then I’ll give it time!

Alright Jimmy, calm down…