Sunderland at home match thread

[W-S-M Seagull]

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Re Max - “going long was an option, but there were two or three other options”

He then talks about putting it in behind them as an option too.

Imho it looks like we didn’t use those other options, and we didn’t go in behind them either, it was “at” Tommy, rather than turning Carter and Wharton round.

He much liked to blame the players. Maybe blame is a bit of a strong word but you get what I mean. 

But the way I see it is, if Max wasn't taking those other options, then that falls on Manning and Hogg for not getting those other options across clearly enough. That comes down to coaching and management for me.

18 minutes ago, petehinton said:

**** me, saying he took sykes and knight off purely because of opinion & no running stat/precautionary stuff, and all his subs are based on opinion and nothing else, makes me even more baffled and confused at the ones he’s made in the games so far

Took him off because of a 'feeling'

[Silvio Dante]

9 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

So to save me listening, did he say if Wells or King would be back?

Not saying they would start but bench options, though clearly the first more of one than the latter.

Not back. King wasn’t asked about, Wells is closer but indicated Boxing Day most likely. Naismith on treadmill, Roberts seems miles away.

No mention of Atkinson or (not that it was expected) Benarous.

[W-S-M Seagull]

Looking to recruit in attacking areas. 

Here we go again with the mindset that we are not winning because of our attacking depth. 

If Dickie or Vyner of even both gets injured, we are ******. But hey, we'll just score lots of goals and all will be good. 

 

 

[chowie]

I watched it but didn't really take in what he was saying, I spent about 10 minutes just looking at his hair, it was more interesting.

[W-S-M Seagull]

Just now, Silvio Dante said:

Not back. King wasn’t asked about, Wells is closer but indicated Boxing Day most likely. Naismith on treadmill, Roberts seems miles away.

No mention of Atkinson or (not that it was expected) Benarous.

And despite this, our focus is on recruiting in attacking areas. Bizarre. 

[Silvio Dante]

3 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

He much liked to blame the players. Maybe blame is a bit of a strong word but you get what I mean. 

But the way I see it is, if Max wasn't taking those other options, then that falls on Manning and Hogg for not getting those other options across clearly enough. That comes down to coaching and management for me.

Took him off because of a 'feeling'

I’ve got a bit of a split on this. One of the first things he said was to the effect of players not being able to hear him on the pitch so they have to make their own decisions - and that is right. The problem thus far is when he has had opportunity to influence (I.e at half time or in the subs vs Blackburn) he’s not made a positive difference.

So he’s right that players have to make decisions. But he has to make the right ones as well equally, and that’s been his weakest suit to date.

[BCFC31]

It seems like manning is giving his players solutions and time will tell weather certain players can take that information in and use it in games. Clearly max was guilty of not being about to understand Blackburn had dropped off and think to him self let's try solution 2 he's just continued to lump it forward with 0 reward if I was manning on the touch like I'd be pissed right off! There will only be a certain amount of time you would hope for players to show they can do what he asks before his patience runs out. After that the only way to remedy this is to get rid and get somone else in who has been specifically scouted to do certain things manning wants in his teams then build from that platform.

[Sleepy1968]

10 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Looking to recruit in attacking areas. 

Here we go again with the mindset that we are not winning because of our attacking depth. 

If Dickie or Vyner of even both gets injured, we are ******. But hey, we'll just score lots of goals and all will be good. 

 

 

Well, if we'd managed to take some of the good chances we'd missed over-the-counter last several games we might be.

Just because he hasn't mentioned central defenders, it doesn't mean we aren't looking for additional cover.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

So to save me listening, did he say if Wells or King would be back?

Not saying they would start but bench options, though clearly the first more of one than the latter.

Nahki is closer, but I got the impression, not this weekend.  King not mentioned.

Roberts confirmed as ankle and some way away.

Everyone came through ok on Tuesday,

3 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Slightly paraphrased but

"Results we feel we deserved"

"So much positives to come from it"

"If you look at the games and how weve progressed the opportunities and control"

"Data shows us the direction we're heading in"

"If you continue to create the chances that we have then we'll win games"

"We've sustained a level of performance for a period of games so I'm sure it will come"

 

I've just not seen what he has seen. 

I don't feel we deserved anything more than we've got. Maybe a point against Norwich.

I really think it depends on how black and white you look at the combination of performance, chances, and the end result.  We know in football you can’t get half a goal, or a winning draw (which was novel when I first started playing league cricket in Bristol at 13).

If I was being incredibly hard, I’d say we should’ve easily earned a point at Norwich.  I thinking Huddersfield was a “winning draw”

If both of them go your way then we are 3 points better off (8 from 6).  But of course that’s too easy to say.  But I’d say if one of those is different, then we are sat on 6 or 7 points.

I'm not sure of any positives and if there are some then they are countered out by the negatives. Again I'm not sure we have progressed. Regressed certainly. 

As for control, meh, Huddersfield and Norwich for example were happy to allow us to 'control' the game. So I'm not sure how that's a positive. When Blackburn didn't allow us to control the game, we struggled and went long.

Blackburn was a good test for exactly what you describe, a team who didn’t want us to have the ball and pass it around.  I don’t think their press was particularly great, I wasn’t screaming “boy, look at those triggers, they’re brilliant”, I just think we lacked bravery to play.  And we made it worse by aiming long kicks at TC…at least go to the wings.  It’s good that Manning said that wasn’t the plan, just an option.  So we have some qualification that we executed poorly.  Again we can reflect tomorrow evening and see if Max continues to punt long or whether players work harder / braver to work angles for him.

As for opportunities, again I'm not seeing it. Maybe Messi would score thoe opportunities but they've not been clear cut opportunities so not sure how that's being framed as a positive either. So im not sure how we're going to win games with those half chances.

I blame the last journo for creating that rhetoric…because as we know it’s not based on anything.  That just lets Manning off the hook - and I’m not saying they should be trying to catch him out either.  We aren’t creating better chances at all as it stands, it’s pretty similar to under Nige.

The only level of performance we have sustained is by playing boring football. 

He spoke about how the players need a win to validate that we’re doing the right stuff.

I read that as the players lack a bit of belief in what they are trying.  It’s new, it’s gonna be difficult if the end result is a loss.  That was probably his worst comment for me!  I get what he was trying to say, but it wasn’t great!

Got the feeling he was having a dig at the previous management when he said "if everything's just about the Saturday (the win) you're getting a bit of an emotional roller coaster which makes it hard to go back to back which has been an issue"

Got the feeling he was blaming the players for not following the plan rather than the plan being wrong. Very much something LJ used to do.

Every time I watch him it feels as if Bristol City didn't exist before he came in.

He keeps saying how terrific things are but I'm just not seeing it. Nothing but a chancer this guy.

He even went and mentioned XG, thats done it for me

why wouldn’t he?  It’s a huge part of the game these days.

My challenge to that is - great, you restricted Blackburn to 0.48 xG less than their average, but did you feel that their xG figure was representative of  how they attacked / we defended?

My own view was - I don’t!  I thought we were ragged defensively and it took the likes of Dickie and Pring to have to be 8/10 defensively to stop them creating more chances.  To much last ditch stuff, so although their xG was lower it could’ve easily been higher had it it not been for those two.

Comments above

[Back of the Dolman]

New member posting for the first time,

and no I’m not an employee of Bristol Sport.

Looking forward to tomorrow with some pessimism but hopefully we can take the three points.

Sunderland seem a young and quick side who we will need to press and not leave space in behind us.

I think there will be a few goals but on current form I don’t think a point would be the worst result.

[Davefevs]

Welcome @Back of the Dolman…you’ve obviously been reading!!!

[Bazooka Joe]

I reckon we'll win three-nil.

Nah, not really.

I'm just mackem around.

[Back of the Dolman]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Welcome @Back of the Dolman…you’ve obviously been reading!!!

Yep been reading for a while but finally got round to joining in.

 

[Davefevs]

FWIW I thought it was an informative interview.  Quite a lot of bits and pieces about how he goes about things…whether you like them or not.

He talked about transitioning from “high block to the press”….not that he said much more.  That for me shows that the way he plays his 2x DMs is by design.

Against QPR your DMs leaving lots of space for your 2 CBs to deal with Dykes is probably majorly different than against Blackburn where you’ve got Ennis (mobile), Szmodics (pest) and then Moran and Sigurdsson coming in off their wings and creating overloads in the central areas.  That certainly caused us huge issues and meant we failed in his principle of “controlling the middle of the pitch”.

This is something I’m gonna keep looking out for….its a big red flag for me!

As per my post above, I don’t want my defenders to have to play out of their skin to keep our opponents xG down.

[Son of Fred]

17 minutes ago, Back of the Dolman said:

Yep been reading for a while but finally got round to joining in.

 

Welcome to the madhouse 

[Back of the Dolman]

12 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

Welcome to the madhouse 

I should fit right in

[pillred]

5 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

Looking for back-to-back promotions after coming up from League One via the play-offs, they made it to last season’s play-offs, where having won the home game 2-1 they lost 3-2 to Luton Town on aggregate.

Currently they are sixth with 33 points.

They signed Benfica striker Luis Hemir Silva Semedo for an undisclosed fee on a five-year deal.The 19-year-old had featured for the club's B team in the Portuguese second tier in the past two seasons.

They also added PSV Eindhoven defender Jenson Seelt for an undisclosed fee.The 20-year-old signed a five-year contract, he made one Eredivisie appearance, against PEC Zwolle in May 2022, and featured in match-day squads last season.

In late July they signed former Blackburn attacking-midfielder Bradley Dack on a one-year deal. The 29-year-old reunited with Black Cats manager Tony Mowbray, who he played under during his time at Rovers.

They also signed Sochaux striker Eliezer Mayenda for an undisclosed fee on a five-year deal. The 18-year-old former Spainish Under-17 international became the French side's youngest ever player when he made his debut aged 16 years and seven months in December 2021.

They signed Manchester United goalkeeper Nathan Bishop for an undisclosed fee on a three-year deal. The 23-year-old joined United from Southend in January 2020 but never made a competitive appearance for the Premier League side.

On deadline day they added defender Timothee Pembele, midfielder Adil Aouchiche and strikers Mason Burstow and Nazariy Rusyn.

Last season in this fixture they picked up the points, https://youtu.be/_uFGtinhJ58

To get you in the festive spirt enjoy the taste of Christmas by tucking into festive concessions of Yorkshire pudding wraps at the Festive Unit in the Fan Village and mulled cider from The Gate bar. Also, keep an eye out for FREE Mince Pies while stock-ings last!

Supporters can take advantage of the Christmassy scene and Oh! Ho! Ho, by being on the lookout for Santa Claus and his Elf, who will be off the shelf and out and about around the ground ready to pose for a photo!

Head-to-head record is close.

Won: 17

Lost: 16

Drawn: 15

LMs notes: https://www.bcfc.co.uk/city-men-news/liams-notes-sunderland-afc-h/

Their preview: https://youtu.be/f0d7n0F-l00

Officials

Referee: Stephen Martin

Assistants: Mark Dwyer and Mark Pottage

Fourth official: Scott Oldham

In September Tony Mowbray triggered a 12-month contract extension after leading Sunderland to the Championship play-offs last season - despite a summer of speculation over his future on Wearside. The Black Cats head coach was appointed in August 2022. In early December he was sacked with them sitting ninth in the table.

Mike Dodds has been placed in temporary charge while they look for a successor, Dodds was also put in temporary charge when Lee Johnson was sacked. He started his tenure with a 2-1 home win against WBA in front of 40,101 fans and followed it up with a 1-0 home win against Leeds on Tuesday. He will take charge on Saturday as the club's search for a successor to Tony Mowbray continues.

Spreadex is the club’s principal partner. The UK-based financial trading and sports betting firm agreed a deal for a three-year partnership, which will include the Spreadex Sports logo adorning the Club’s home and away shirts until summer 2025.

Fans are invited to spread some festive cheer to those who may need it. Charities Teddy Trust, Kitmas and St Mungo’s will be on site accepting donations on Saturday.

 

 

 

Supporters can bring donations, that fit the criteria of each charity, to Ashton Gate Stadium on Saturday and drop them off at the donation point, which over the festive weekend will be located inside the concourse at A8 – which is located opposite the Sports bar from inside the concourse.  The Club will sort all the donations and deliver them to each charity in time for Christmas.

 

 

 

 

That game with Chris Garland on the programme was one of the all-time great matches I have attended, it was 1970 and we were 1-3 down against Sunderland and came back to win 4-3 what a match.

[Numero Uno]

44 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

FWIW I thought it was an informative interview.  Quite a lot of bits and pieces about how he goes about things…whether you like them or not.

He talked about transitioning from “high block to the press”….not that he said much more.  That for me shows that the way he plays his 2x DMs is by design.

Against QPR your DMs leaving lots of space for your 2 CBs to deal with Dykes is probably majorly different than against Blackburn where you’ve got Ennis (mobile), Szmodics (pest) and then Moran and Sigurdsson coming in off their wings and creating overloads in the central areas.  That certainly caused us huge issues and meant we failed in his principle of “controlling the middle of the pitch”.

This is something I’m gonna keep looking out for….its a big red flag for me!

As per my post above, I don’t want my defenders to have to play out of their skin to keep our opponents xG down.

Not to mention that overworked players will have a mistake in them at some point.

[REDOXO]

I can’t wait for the match. Not because of excitement or expectations but just to move this shit show onward to some kind of resolution!

[Davefevs]

21 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I can’t wait for the match. Not because of excitement or expectations but just to move this shit show onward to some kind of resolution!

We are gonna win tomorrow…somehow.

[Loosey Boy]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We are gonna win tomorrow…somehow.

Hope you are right @Davefevs 

[W-S-M Seagull]

21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We are gonna win tomorrow…somehow.

And even if we don't, we will have played well with some terrific moments and controlled the game. 

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We are gonna win tomorrow…somehow.

Don't like it when opposition teams are playing in front of their prospective new manager / coach. Players tend to raise their game and they are in quite good form as it is. Hopefully you will be right Dave

[Numero Uno]

We'll get a 90 minute performance tomorrow........one way or the other imo.

[BCFC31]

Jack Clarke up against tanner feels me with absolute horror

[Jerseybean]

5 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Michael Beale being reported as new Sunderland manager

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/sunderlands-managerial-favourite-set-ashton-8979161?utm_source=bristol_live_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Bristol+Live+-+BCFC+Newsletter_newsletter&utm_content=&utm_term=&ruid=eda3a0ce-34ec-4a85-96cd-ae68727a6b80

[Mr Popodopolous]

38 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

Jack Clarke up against tanner feels me with absolute horror

To a degree although depends how exactly we set up IMO. If we are nice and compact, cohesive etc, a shape we understand e.g. 4-3-3 perhaps not so scary.

[W-S-M Seagull]

52 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

Jack Clarke up against tanner feels me with absolute horror

Tanner is a good defender. Just not so good at the other stuff. 

Where people go wrong is they get his style wrong. He is not a Kyle Walker. He is more of a Gary Neville. He's completely different to Pring for example. 

[FNQ]

8 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Didn't we go 2nd in the First Division after the 4-1 win against Sunderland. 2 wins, 2 draws from our opening 4 games.

Wasn’t that 4-1 win was also the game where we took the kick off in both halves?

[luke_bristol]

You use data in pre-season. The only data that matters in December is points.