Millwall at home match thread

[Numero Uno]

4 minutes ago, Woofyourkipper said:

when was the last time you saw tanner going forward?

i agree you with ref weiman though,very static today

 

You can’t travel forwards into three players of traffic when Weimann is knocking one out 25 yards inside of you though. That was on Andi today and if he was following instructions then it’s on the manager. Either way it made no sense and played into Millwall’s hands.

[pj76]

Just now, Numero Uno said:

A blind person could see it although it seems 15k of our fans missed it and abused Tanner instead

Standard. Tanner gets all the flak, simply because he's on the right. Everyone loves Pring and Mehmeti, with Knight popping up here and there in support, but then they expect Tanner to do it all on his own and then complain that he doesn't get forward. 

Ah well. Funny how all our best performances (Swansea away anyone?) feature Sykes.

[REDOXO]

25 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

Torturously boring football, I’m taking a Wisden to the next home hame to keep myself amused.

Mind numbing rubbish.

 

23 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Agreed. Utterly tedious.

Utterly boring tedious keep ball rubbish with no threat!

problem was we couldn’t keep it. 
 

My god we were saying a few days ago about how good our bench is and let’s all look up the table as we have hurt teams. Today we reverted to that. AT ******* HOME!

So now some and Manning are falling back on spending the money created by and denied to Pearson to play the way Manning wants us to play. 
 

Anyone get the utterly obvious and Ironic comparison with another young and up and coming who had the same theory and was just fired the second time this season and for the umpteenth time in general. 
 

That today was abject. The players looked like confused kids in an algebra class, which is not that far off an analogy! 

Edited January 1 by REDOXO

[Numero Uno]

Just now, REDOXO said:

 

Utterly boring tedious keep ball rubbish with no threat!

problem was we couldn’t keep it. 
 

My god we were saying a few days ago about how good our bench is and let’s all look up the table as we have hurt teams. Today we reverted to that. AT ******* HOME!

So now some and Manning are falling back on spending the money created by and denied to Pearson to play the way Manning wants us to play. 
 

Anyone get the utterance obvious and Ironic comparison with another young and up and coming who had the same theory and was just fired the second time this season and for the umpteenth time in general. 
 

That today was abject. The players looked like confused kids in an algebra class, which is not that far off an analogy! 

It doesn’t matter now that Nige never got the money. We all knew investment in the squad is an absolute must and as the current manager Manning must be given the players he needs to turn us from infuriatingly inconsistent and low on quality into a better team that can break teams down. Otherwise the hierarchy are failing him.

The squad hasn’t changed, we bring in a new manager and the up and down results and performances are generally similar. Why would anyone expect anything different?

[Mr Popodopolous]

If anyone is keeping tabs and adjusting for equivalent games vs equivalent opposition.

NP from his 14, 3 to 5 points better off than last season.

Fleming takes it up to +5 either way.

Manning has +1 from his 11. 14 from 11 v 15 from 11.

[Wrongagain]

22 minutes ago, Woofyourkipper said:

Exactly what i said to my sons, you cant play those 2 together in midfield, too slow, no penetration or tactical cutting edge at speed.

 

James cost us in the end, his first instinct is to check if there’s a clear space in front of him - if not it’s pass back and let someone else do the work,  and at times Williams did a Johnson and avoided the ball, a great pity because he is better than that! But then who was on the pitch to produce a chance to score?

[Barrs Court Red]

I did not enjoy that.  A mediocre home performance highlighting the shortcomings we were already aware of. 
 

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, TV Tom said:

We needed a striker in the summer but whatever money we had went elsewhere, for me we needed a striker more than anything, hopefully Manning can pull some rabbits out of the hat in this month’s transfer window

In your opinion!  Not just yours, admittedly.  Others have said the same.

We had 7 forwards for our 3 positions / roles:

Left to right:

Mehmeti / Bell - Conway / Wells - Sykes / Weimann / Cornick

Based on our recruitment, who should we have not bothered with? Don't say McCrorie.  And out of Roberts, Dickie, Knight and TGH (loan), what budget were you allocating?

And what about the retrofit story re budget taken up?

Its not Manning who’ll be pulling rabbits out of the hat btw.

The stupid thing is - there should’ve been budget to strengthen the squad after Alex was sold, regardless of what you, me or the gatepost think was the necessary position.  But maybe it is dawning on you that the club chose the “self-harm” route, because of the way they felt about Nige.  They have in effect wasted 26 games of the season as a result.

Thats my version of the reality of the situation.

Whats yours?

 

[REDOXO]

12 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It doesn’t matter now that Nige never got the money. We all knew investment in the squad is an absolute must and as the current manager Manning must be given the players he needs to turn us from infuriatingly inconsistent and low on quality into a better team that can break teams down. Otherwise the hierarchy are failing him.

The squad hasn’t changed, we bring in a new manager and the up and down results and performances are generally similar. Why would anyone expect anything different?

It matters because it shows the utter nonsensical hypocrisy existing at the club. 
 

Should Manning get the money, if it turns us into a team of course. (remember this guy has never had money or managed at this level, does that remind you of anything)
 

But to deny it to Pearson a man that turned us around with limited financial support and clearly actual support in the boardroom is this club through and through. 
 

Yep give the money to the bloke that has no track record of how to spend it in a wild punt at not looking like a dolt. Seems like a plan Jon! It worked well for dad, but I guess you became Chairman!!

It should not be a surprise that it gets pointed out

Edited January 1 by REDOXO

[Robbored]

32 minutes ago, Woofyourkipper said:

Exactly what i said to my sons, you cant play those 2 together in midfield, too slow, no penetration or tactical cutting edge at speed.

 

I’ve said all along  that James and Williams in central midfield are too alike and I was genuinely surprised that both of them were starting with TGH on the bench.

Obviously Manning sees it differently.

[2015]

44 minutes ago, Woofyourkipper said:

He's been given 46 minutes in total the last 3 games,i know hes not technically brilliant but at least he puts himself about.

If you dont get regular game time it will show.

Btw how do you think conway has performed since coming straight back into the side?

 

As I said, Conway has been terrible.

[fisherrich]

2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

It matters because it shows the utter nonsensical hypocrisy existing at the club. 
 

Should Manning get the money, if it turns us into a team of course. (remember this guy has never had money or managed at this level, does that remind you of anything)
 

But to deny it to Pearson a man that turned us around with limited financial support and clearly actual support in the boardroom is this club through and through. 
 

Yep give the money to the bloke that has no track record of how to spend it in a wild punt at not looking like a dolt. Seems like a plan Jon!

It should not be a surprise that it gets pointed out

Lansdowns all over that would be.

[sh1t_ref_again]

Frustrating thing to watch about this style, when we do create the opening or a turnover we don't seem to have anyone in the front line that pulls into a position to receive a forward pass, so end up slowing it down and allowing the opposition to regain shape.

Also thought 1st half we did make some good interplay into the box without turning it into a decent shot

[Roger Red Hat]

9 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

I did not enjoy that.  A mediocre home performance highlighting the shortcomings we were already aware of. 
 

 

Did it achieve the dizzy heights of 'mediocre'??

[Robbored]

23 minutes ago, Woofyourkipper said:

when was the last time you saw tanner going 

That harsh on Tanner - tell me what options he had to pass forward? Millwall did an excellent job of blocking City’s passing options and it seemed that Tanner was a regular victim of it.

Plus…..just as importantly he no one ahead of him.

 He’s getting unnecessary flak on here imo.

[REDOXO]

Just now, Roger Red Hat said:

Did it achieve the dizzy heights of 'mediocre'??

EXACTLY! 

[richyy66]

I must say that was shocking today. Lost every tackle, header and second ball. Along with a non existent right side and powder puff up front.

Didn't enjoy it one bit.

[Swede]

That was pretty turgid stuff and all down to the head coach. IMHO to change our style from a counter attacking team to a possession based team mid season and with the same players is foolhardy. That's two teams who have set up against us to nullify and not concede. We simply don't have the right type of players to win these types of matches. Weimann simply isn't a wide player so why play him there? We haven't the strikers to play one up top, the closest is Cornick. Up until we brought James off we were solid in the middle. Taking him off and suddenly we looked ragged. Strange subs at 50 minutes, why not half time then and give the subs that bedding in period starting the second half? He then kept Conway & Mehmeti on 10 minutes too long! We then looked so disjointed it reminded me of an LJ team. Really baffling and concerning. One or two efforts on target over two matches is not good.

[luke_bristol]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

In your opinion!  Not just yours, admittedly.  Others have said the same.

We had 7 forwards for our 3 positions / roles:

Left to right:

Mehmeti / Bell - Conway / Wells - Sykes / Weimann / Cornick

Based on our recruitment, who should we have not bothered with? Don't say McCrorie.  And out of Roberts, Dickie, Knight and TGH (loan), what budget were you allocating?

And what about the retrofit story re budget taken up?

Its not Manning who’ll be pulling rabbits out of the hat btw.

The stupid thing is - there should’ve been budget to strengthen the squad after Alex was sold, regardless of what you, me or the gatepost think was the necessary position.  But maybe it is dawning on you that the club chose the “self-harm” route, because of the way they felt about Nige.  They have in effect wasted 26 games of the season as a result.

Thats my version of the reality of the situation.

Whats yours?

 

 Let’s face it, the season is a write-off. Won’t go up, won’t go down. 
 

cup run is our best chance of some excitement, but we’ll probably get stuffed by WH

[Davefevs]

46 minutes ago, stortfordred said:

Agree with many of the comments on here but for me, there was also the element of Manning and co being out-thought by their management team. They soaked up all our possession first half and then decided to change formation and give it a bit of a go. Their no 17 started to give Pring a torrid time. Manning failed to work this change out and then compounded it by taking James off. 
We then lost the control we’d had in the first half even if that control had been a bit toothless. 
We badly missed Sykes first half and his injury looked like a hamstring which could mean he’s missing for a while. 
Hugely frustrating game and although you need patience, all that passing back once we’d broken the first line drives me mad. I can’t believe that’s down to Manning. It’s the lack of bravery on the ball-they’re just so afraid to lose possession. 

Was on RTV as joe unwell, so couldn’t make out the changes Edwards made, apart from Honeyman and Mitchell started to have acres to play in.  They suddenly started getting the ball with time to face us up, we were nowhere near them.  That for me was the biggest impact, but I couldn’t tell what caused it per se.  Did Williams and James drop off?  Did they drop off because Vyner and Dickie did too?

37 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

That football, if repeated, would be a guaranteed way to make people find an alternative hobby tbh. It won’t be repeated every week because it’s not what we do but like I said earlier that was as bad as it can possibly get and I hope Manning acknowledges that. People paid good money and had foregone family stuff on the last day of the holiday (for many) just to be literally sat there bored out of their minds.

I think the mini run we had did raise expectations for some, unrealistically, but if you are going to get done by Millwall at least match them and give it a ******* go!!

Boring response - sorry….The data said we were achieving the same / similar attacking and defensive outcomes pre-Liam and post-Liam, but perhaps to many it was aesthetically more pleasing.  But I do wonder what @Kid in the Riot’s response is tonight, having opened up the question over Xmas about “memorable” home games!  Sorry kid!

[Numero Uno]

6 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

It matters because it shows the utter nonsensical hypocrisy existing at the club. 
 

Should Manning get the money, if it turns us into a team of course. (remember this guy has never had money or managed at this level, does that remind you of anything)
 

But to deny it to Pearson a man that turned us around with limited financial support and clearly actual support in the boardroom is this club through and through. 
 

Yep give the money to the bloke that has no track record of how to spend it in a wild punt at not looking like a dolt. Seems like a plan Jon! It worked well for dad, but I guess you became Chairman!!

It should not be a surprise that it gets pointed out

I’m simply taking a pragmatic approach. Liam is manager, he needs players so what do you do?

You don’t need to lecture me about the hierarchy (not saying you are btw), my opinion on them is pretty clear I think

In defence of Manning he is achieving the same up and down results as Pearson atm accepting that today was terrible on a nuclear scale, no exaggeration. So on that basis he has to be given the money cos it’s his team (not players) now.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Hull 2 down at Sheffield Wednesday and West Brom lost at Swansea.

Not a huge amount of ground lost, albeit Sunderland beat Preston.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Was on RTV as joe unwell, so couldn’t make out the changes Edwards made, apart from Honeyman and Mitchell started to have acres to play in.  They suddenly started getting the ball with time to face us up, we were nowhere near them.  That for me was the biggest impact, but I couldn’t tell what caused it per se.  Did Williams and James drop off?  Did they drop off because Vyner and Dickie did too?

Boring response - sorry….The data said we were achieving the same / similar attacking and defensive outcomes pre-Liam and post-Liam, but perhaps to many it was aesthetically more pleasing.  But I do wonder what @Kid in the Riot’s response is tonight, having opened up the question over Xmas about “memorable” home games!  Sorry kid!

Overall I completely agree. Today was a new level of bad though!!! But not judging the manager on that, it just shows where we are as a squad.

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

I’m simply taking a pragmatic approach. Liam is manager, he needs players so what do you do?

You don’t need to lecture me about the hierarchy (not saying you are btw), my opinion on them is pretty clear I think

In defence of Manning he is achieving the same up and down results as Pearson atm accepting that today was terrible on a nuclear scale, no exaggeration. So on that basis he has to be given the money cos it’s his team (not players) now.

I express my opinion and don’t try to lecture typically. 
 

The point is we now HAVE to support the bloke who produced that, with money he has never had to play his way and not the best way for the players he has. 
 

I honestly would not be surprised if LJ came back as a coach. 

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, redkev said:

There’s a bloke called Martin in league 1 knocking a few in and a bloke called szmodics at Blackburn who’s scored a few , just saying

Chris Martin. He’s knocking them in at League 1 level and in his last 6 months at Championship level did **** all. There is a difference.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

But not judging the manager on that, it just shows where we are as a squad

You don’t have to “judge”, but I think tonight there is a “critique”that asks - what did he do to wrestle Millwall’s dominance back in our favour?

It can’t always be achieved through personnel changes (substitutions)!

Millwall weren’t “so good” that nothing would’ve been worth do differently.  We didn’t even try to pump up to Cornick in the last 10 mins for example.  I know that’s not the answer when you’re building pressure, but we weren’t even doing that.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, REDOXO said:

I express my opinion and don’t try to lecture typically. 
 

The point is we now HAVE to support the bloke who produced that, with money he has never had to play his way and not the best way for the players he has. 
 

I honestly would not be surprised if LJ came back as a coach. 

I didn’t think you were lecturing at all tbh, just pointing out that my opinion of the hierarchy is no different to yours!! Manning does need players, unless you want to watch pragmatic, (enough) results led and uninspired football for the next three years!! Personally I’ve had a guts full of that, accepting it was necessary whilst we underwent an FFFP reset, and want to watch something a bit more exciting that also picks up results. As a general question to people who think the club can do no wrong am I being unrealistic?

[pj76]

10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Hull 2 down at Sheffield Wednesday and West Brom lost at Swansea.

Not a huge amount of ground lost, albeit Sunderland beat Preston.

Yeah... or on the other hand, it's a missed opportunity

[W-S-M Seagull]

After a heavy new years eve, it was very difficult to stay awake watching that game. 

 

 

 

[Numero Uno]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You don’t have to “judge”, but I think tonight there is a “critique”that asks - what did he do to wrestle Millwall’s dominance back in our favour?

It can’t always be achieved through personnel changes (substitutions)!

Millwall weren’t “so good” that nothing would’ve been worth do differently.  We didn’t even try to pump up to Cornick in the last 10 mins for example.  I know that’s not the answer when you’re building pressure, but we weren’t even doing that.

No, if what you WANT to do isn’t working try something else even if it goes against your preferred principles of playing. We went down with a whimper (at best) today.