Millwall at home match thread

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, TV Tom said:

Out of those seven i would only class 20 year old Conway and 33 year old Wells as out and out centre forwards, both have been injured and/or out of form for much of the season, it's patently obvious then and now we need a CF and i would of put that need in front of all our other recruitments, just my opinion mind.

  

Yeah, that’s what you said in the post I replied to….but I asked who were you not signing as a result.  With the budgets as they were (or as we were told they were), you can’t have your cake and eat it.  I have no issues with your opinion, as I said above, many agree with you and what you deem the priority.

So, who out of Dickie and Knight weren’t you signing to buy a “priority” striker?  You might not have been able to afford both of them to get a striker in.

1 hour ago, RollsRoyce said:

What is your budget? Are you saying you would have only signed one player last summer? Coventry spent £8m on 2 forwards. I do not disagree with the need, but there are significant financial constraints. I think Nige would have agreed with you, it was obvious we needed to replace Antoine. But it is pretty much impossible with free transfers or a budget of , less say £2m (fee for Knight or McCrorie) . I am not saying there is no one out there for that money, but every Championship club is looking for a £2M forward. You are stating the obvious. 

It needed a chunk of the nest egg spent on a forward, but that money is not there. 

this

[Jose]

1 hour ago, mason said:

Round and around we go, if we are to move forward the Lansdowns need to back their manager with some cash to do so.

That does not mean sign a couple "for the future" the need is NOW! this month or are we yet again to "go again" in the summer, sometime, never.

Put some money where your talk is Jon, action speaks louder than words........not going to happen is it, really?

 

If we are to move forward the Lansdowns need to **** off. 

[redkev]

5 minutes ago, Jose said:

If we are to move forward the Lansdowns need to **** off. 

I totally agree but & big butt be careful what you wish for also remember we still have 22m debt hanging around our neck 

[Sir Geoff]

2 minutes ago, redkev said:

I totally agree but & big butt be careful what you wish for also remember we still have 22m debt hanging around our neck 

Not the be careful what you wish for tosh, again. Like what... Reading, Portsmouth, Wigan, Cardiff, Birmingham......all of whom have been to the Premier League and some a cup final as well.

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, redkev said:

I totally agree but & big butt be careful what you wish for also remember we still have 22m 200m debt hanging around our neck 

Fixed

[Shauntaylor85]

1 hour ago, mason said:

Round and around we go, if we are to move forward the Lansdowns need to back their manager with some cash to do so.

That does not mean sign a couple "for the future" the need is NOW! this month or are we yet again to "go again" in the summer, sometime, never.

Put some money where your talk is Jon, action speaks louder than words........not going to happen is it, really?

 

I was on the fence with Manning and was starting to feel more positive after watching Watford away, however I said to those around me, next two games are key. We had great results like Watford under Nige, performance reminded me of the win at Swansea which should have been a similar margin. What I wanted to see was a city that could then go on and scrape two good results v Blues and Millwall, how poor were we in both, one shot on target in 120 mins of football versus lower table sides, the same old BC coming back to haunt us. 

 

 

 

[sh1t_ref_again]

One thing that Millwall did that frustrates the hell out of me that we don't, is when defending a corner they left a player up. I know it seems to be the modern way of everyone back in the box and sure manager must have statics of it being better, but when we clear our lines the opposition just pick up cheap ball unopposed and recycle it, when Millwall left one up we were forced to leave two back and had to fight for the ball when cleared, perhaps someone can explain the logic behind everyone back.

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, Jose said:

If we are to move forward the Lansdowns need to **** off. 

Personally, whoever is in charge, the most important thing for me is to be completely and utterly disconnected from all things Bristol Sport unless someone can point me in the obvious direction of how we make loads of dosh or benefit in other significant and meaningful ways for a Championship Football Club by being part of it...........to those who believe the Lansdown's get it right, are safe etc. etc. (and those who don't but like the Bristol Sport model) I am not seeing the significant advantage we have over the Millwall's and Preston North End's of this world by being part of it so where am I totally missing the point?

Saving £50K on ticketing costs in a shared organisation and a few hundred grand on ground sharing with a Rugby Club DOES NOT count as a significant advantage in my eyes..........in Championship Football currency that is a drop in the ocean that barely buys us a mediocre player at our level.

However, if you can point me in the right direction that's much appreciated and then I would also be grateful if you could answer me this - if the significant advantage of Bristol Sport you have identified is there for all to see and I'm just being stupid (wouldn't be the first time tbf) WHY ARE THE LANSDOWN'S AND THEIR SENIOR MANAGEMENT TEAM (MARSHALL AND TINNION) NOT MAKING THAT HUGE ADVANTAGE COUNT OVER THE PRESTON NORTH END'S AND MILLWALL'S OF THIS WORLD?

[redkev]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

Not the be careful what you wish for tosh, again. Like what... Reading, Portsmouth, Wigan, Cardiff, Birmingham......all of whom have been to the Premier League and some a cup final as well.

Tosh  fact actually

by the way did you not read that I’m not a lansdown supporter either , a takeover will be 50/50 just because we get taken over does not mean automatic success 

[Numero Uno]

5 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

One thing that Millwall did that frustrates the hell out of me that we don't, is when defending a corner they left a player up. I know it seems to be the modern way of everyone back in the box and sure manager must have statics of it being better, but when we clear our lines the opposition just pick up cheap ball unopposed and recycle it, when Millwall left one up we were forced to leave two back and had to fight for the ball when cleared, perhaps someone can explain the logic behind everyone back.

I'm in your camp on this one.....it's a straightforward way of ensuring you don't have possession after you've cleared the corner!!

[Sir Geoff]

2 minutes ago, redkev said:

Tosh  fact actually

by the way did you not read that I’m not a lansdown supporter either , a takeover will be 50/50 just because we get taken over does not mean automatic success 

Personally neither am I. In fact I abhor the Premier league. Give me a bit of entertainment, win,lose or draw and I will be pretty content. I enjoyed the process and journey we were on under NP. To date I am unconvinced that the change was either necessary or likely to exact the type of football we were promised. The Lansdowns have had their chance, now move over to allow a new owner with different ideas a chance.

[Red-Robbo]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Because not all our performances are of that level RR.  If they were we’d be in trouble.  But on a given day we show we can play too.  The “average” performance is mid-table…and that’s what we are.  Sometimes those good performances come one after the other, sometimes they don’t, sometimes they come at home, sometimes they come away.

The easiest way to improve is to get better players.  Sure, we can make some marginal gains through coaching.  You can also make marginal gains through management / motivation too.

I suspect LM will achieve similar to what Nige did, just in slightly different way.

I hope so Fevs.

I guess the point I was trying to make to the poster I replied to, was NYD we didn’t play like a mid-table side but like a team deserving no better than the bottom third. 

If we can leven that with some "top 6" performances like at Vicarage Rd and a few hard ground-out or lucky wins then we will be fine this season and in a position to push on from that.

I can't help but feel the loss of Sykes - and the fact he didn’t look right even before that - cost us creativity, plus TGH playing in the James' deep defence role lost us his attacking threat. He isn't that great as a defence-shielding midfielder.

Overall the side looked as flat as I felt after a non-thrilling NYE and those seeking to defend them on the grounds of tiredness, need to acknowledge that Millwall had played exactly the same schedule as us. 

More fitness work required, perhaps. I imagine LM wasn't as measured and dispassionate when he debriefs the team about that loss, as he was on the radio!

 

[maxjak]

16 hours ago, 1team said:

How long should I wait? Be careful as I will be back to haunt you.

Let's assess LM's progress by the end of March?   If he hasn't made a significant difference by then.....I will haunt myself..Ha!    Happy New Year.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Nothing wrong with the tactics yesterday.  Given that we knew Millwall would crowd the defence, it made sense to play a patient passing game in the for an hour, and then bring on Sykes, Bell and TGH as the defence tired.  What went wrong was a) the injury to Sykes and b) several of the players didn’t play very well.

It amazes me how rarely players get criticised for simply not delivering.  I thought some individuals were shocking yesterday.  They’re professionals: they should have done better.

[myol'man]

43 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 I imagine LM wasn't as measured and dispassionate when he debriefs the team about that loss, as he was on the radio!

 

I can't imagine Manning either smashing tea cups at half time, spinning a ball boy around or bouncing around the ground.

"follow the process and win or lose, don't show any emotion"

[Red-Robbo]

10 minutes ago, myol'man said:

I can't imagine Manning either smashing tea cups at half time, spinning a ball boy around or bouncing around the ground.

"follow the process and win or lose, don't show any emotion"

 

Don't think he'd smash tea cups - finances, Liam, finances. Cups cost money - but I would guess he made clear his displeasure. His face in those final few minutes told the story. 

[RollsRoyce]

After the Watford game, there were numerous contributors coming out and stating how well-coached we were, quite clearly suggesting that we were poorly coached before (not a view BTW shared amongst a number of opposing teams we have  played) . It was not even Tinnion saying it. 

So were we as well coached against Birmingham and Milwall, or were Birmingham and Milwall better coached than us? Because one shot on target in 2 games does not look like a well-coached side to me. That is back to the old days of Holden and LJ. We looked anything but a well-coached side in the second half against Milwall. We were out thought and the team and substitutions had no impact as the game was taken away from us. 

Or does Manning only coach well when we win? It has nothing to do with him when we are awful, when players are also clearly following instructions from the coach. 

Looks to me like Manning is learning on the job, which is normal, and he also seems adept at doing that which is positive. But some , including Tinnion and the owners are in for a shock if they think Manning is going to transform this squad into something it is not and that we were not well coached and managed before. We were, even with some minor changes to approach by Manning, the overall result differences will be marginal.  We are a Scott and Semenyo sized ability short of a full load. We have no magic or stand out players. We are in the mix with the other 10/12 Championship sides who are all much the same. Inconsistent, lacking in real quality. However, if you do not turn up, do not apply yourself to every game, with commitment and desire, in the Championship that gets you into a relegation battle in my view. We will not have that unless we get a lot of injuries as the core ethics are there. 

It will be interesting to see if we repeat the performance against Watford in a couple of weeks. That will be an interesting test, as it will be one of the games Manning will have this season with a home and away game against the same team. 

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, RollsRoyce said:

After the Watford game, there were numerous contributors coming out and stating how well-coached we were, quite clearly suggesting that we were poorly coached before (not a view BTW shared amongst a number of opposing teams we have  played) . It was not even Tinnion saying it. 

Tbf that was a few antagonistic posters who never liked Pearson anyway. One particular poster was talking about how refreshing it was to have a "forward thinking young coach"......didn't come out with that at Birmingham or yesterday funnily enough. Most on here, regardless of what went on recently, are prepared to give Manning plenty of time to get things moving whilst, at the same time, having an opinion on what they are watching (as we do with ALL managers).

There is a small and frankly slightly odd minority who jump straight on ANY criticism of Manning's tactics, team selection, style of play or whatever and get ridiculously defensive (albeit, again, they were quieter yesterday) and then try and turn the conversation into a Pearson v Manning row and/or accuse posters of "revelling" in a poor performance or defeat.........let's face it everyone was absolutely buzzing after sitting through that yesterday just so they could go home, switch the laptop on and get one over "brandnewRed" on the forum. Manning will be criticised by people on here the same as Pearson was and similarly he earned plenty of well deserved plaudits from almost everyone after three wins on the bounce.......it's a football forum.

[Back of the Dolman]

8 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

One thing that Millwall did that frustrates the hell out of me that we don't, is when defending a corner they left a player up. I know it seems to be the modern way of everyone back in the box and sure manager must have statics of it being better, but when we clear our lines the opposition just pick up cheap ball unopposed and recycle it, when Millwall left one up we were forced to leave two back and had to fight for the ball when cleared, perhaps someone can explain the logic behind everyone back.

I’ve been saying this all season !

Maybe we’re just old fashioned 

[Redtucks]

11 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Not the be careful what you wish for tosh, again. Like what... Reading, Portsmouth, Wigan, Cardiff, Birmingham......all of whom have been to the Premier League and some a cup final as well.

......and most of which are now lower in the EFL than us!

 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 hours ago, RollsRoyce said:

After the Watford game, there were numerous contributors coming out and stating how well-coached we were, quite clearly suggesting that we were poorly coached before (not a view BTW shared amongst a number of opposing teams we have played) . It was not even Tinnion saying it. 

 

So were we as well coached against Birmingham and Milwall, or were Birmingham and Milwall better coached than us? Because one shot on target in 2 games does not look like a well-coached side to me. That is back to the old days of Holden and LJ. We looked anything but a well-coached side in the second half against Milwall. We were out thought and the team and substitutions had no impact as the game was taken away from us. 

 

Or does Manning only coach well when we win? It has nothing to do with him when we are awful, when players are also clearly following instructions from the coach. 

 

Looks to me like Manning is learning on the job, which is normal, and he also seems adept at doing that which is positive. But some , including Tinnion and the owners are in for a shock if they think Manning is going to transform this squad into something it is not and that we were not well coached and managed before. We were, even with some minor changes to approach by Manning, the overall result differences will be marginal. We are a Scott and Semenyo sized ability short of a full load. We have no magic or stand out players. We are in the mix with the other 10/12 Championship sides who are all much the same. Inconsistent, lacking in real quality. However, if you do not turn up, do not apply yourself to every game, with commitment and desire, in the Championship that gets you into a relegation battle in my view. We will not have that unless we get a lot of injuries as the core ethics are there. 

 

It will be interesting to see if we repeat the performance against Watford in a couple of weeks. That will be an interesting test, as it will be one of the games Manning will have this season with a home and away game against the same team. 

 

 

Those posters who said we are now "well coached" which indeed was a dig at Pearson and his team, are no where to be seen following two rather crap performances where we didn't look well coached. 

[Redtucks]

10 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

One thing that Millwall did that frustrates the hell out of me that we don't, is when defending a corner they left a player up. I know it seems to be the modern way of everyone back in the box and sure manager must have statics of it being better, but when we clear our lines the opposition just pick up cheap ball unopposed and recycle it, when Millwall left one up we were forced to leave two back and had to fight for the ball when cleared, perhaps someone can explain the logic behind everyone back.

 

10 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

I'm in your camp on this one.....it's a straightforward way of ensuring you don't have possession after you've cleared the corner!!

I've said this for ages!

Leave a player up and the opposition will leave two players back to cover.

If everyone is back defending any clearance will come straight back.

Any explanation of the logic for everyone back defending in the box???

 

 

Edited January 2 by Redtucks

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Redtucks said:

 

I've said this for ages!

Leave a player up and the opposition will leave two players back to cover.

If everyone is back defending any clearance will come straight back.

Any explanation of the logic for everyone back defending in the box???

 

 

FWIW there was evidence that last season City improved their defending of set-pieces by pulling everyone back, zone defending the 6 yard box…but it’s still a relatively small sample…and a bit inconclusive too.  But just a bit of info.

[Sir Geoff]

52 minutes ago, Redtucks said:

......and most of which are now lower in the EFL than us!

 

 

Exactly, so do we go for glory and end up in League one eventually or tread water in the Championship and end up in League one eventually. Its all relative but I would prefer to go on the journey without the Lansdowns steering the ship.. .was my point.

[maxjak]

6 hours ago, RollsRoyce said:

After the Watford game, there were numerous contributors coming out and stating how well-coached we were, quite clearly suggesting that we were poorly coached before (not a view BTW shared amongst a number of opposing teams we have  played) . It was not even Tinnion saying it. 

So were we as well coached against Birmingham and Milwall, or were Birmingham and Milwall better coached than us? Because one shot on target in 2 games does not look like a well-coached side to me. That is back to the old days of Holden and LJ. We looked anything but a well-coached side in the second half against Milwall. We were out thought and the team and substitutions had no impact as the game was taken away from us. 

Or does Manning only coach well when we win? It has nothing to do with him when we are awful, when players are also clearly following instructions from the coach. 

Looks to me like Manning is learning on the job, which is normal, and he also seems adept at doing that which is positive. But some , including Tinnion and the owners are in for a shock if they think Manning is going to transform this squad into something it is not and that we were not well coached and managed before. We were, even with some minor changes to approach by Manning, the overall result differences will be marginal.  We are a Scott and Semenyo sized ability short of a full load. We have no magic or stand out players. We are in the mix with the other 10/12 Championship sides who are all much the same. Inconsistent, lacking in real quality. However, if you do not turn up, do not apply yourself to every game, with commitment and desire, in the Championship that gets you into a relegation battle in my view. We will not have that unless we get a lot of injuries as the core ethics are there. 

It will be interesting to see if we repeat the performance against Watford in a couple of weeks. That will be an interesting test, as it will be one of the games Manning will have this season with a home and away game against the same team. 

Having just got round to watching highlights of the Bournemouth v Fulham game over Xmas.....it reminded me of the enormous gap Scotty and Semenyo's departure has left.  They were both outstanding, and were/are.   both game changers in their own right ......we just no longer have that type of player in the side, and in games like today's bore fest against Millwall, theyr'e is just no one capable of producing anything different when it is needed?  We are desperate for some guile and pace in midfield, and the travesty of bringing in Cornick, after someone like Semenyo has left, is a sad joke?   I do think the amount of games over Xmas are too many, and it lowers the quality, with players on both sides knackered...Ha!!  Not that is an excuse for that dire performance.  Let's just hope that LM manages to bring in the extra quality during the window, but i am not holding my breath.  And, like you, I think the Watford game will be an interesting test of Manning's tactical nous?     Watching B'mouth, made me realise just how much, along with everybody else, that   our side really miss Scott and Semenyo's abilities, .....         and it might well be a long time coming till we see that level of class in our team again  ?

Edited January 3 by maxjak

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, maxjak said:

the travesty of bringing in Cornick, after someone like Semenyo has left, is a sad joke?

He was signed to replace Martin, not Semenyo.

However, on Semenyo’s sale, Nige said “you can’t replace a £10m striker, there’s a reason why he cost £10m”

[2015]

19 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Nothing wrong with the tactics yesterday.  Given that we knew Millwall would crowd the defence, it made sense to play a patient passing game in the for an hour, and then bring on Sykes, Bell and TGH as the defence tired.  What went wrong was a) the injury to Sykes and b) several of the players didn’t play very well.

It amazes me how rarely players get criticised for simply not delivering.  I thought some individuals were shocking yesterday.  They’re professionals: they should have done better.

My only thing with that is Weimann shouldn't be playing on the wing or as a Number 10 if we are going up against a side who will sit back and not give us space. He's only useful when there is space to run into.

[exAtyeoMax]

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He was signed to replace Martin, not Semenyo.

However, on Semenyo’s sale, Nige said “you can’t replace a £10m striker, there’s a reason why he cost £10m”

Surely it’s a reference to the timing not the exact transaction? 

[Davefevs]

21 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Surely it’s a reference to the timing not the exact transaction? 

Maybe.

@maxjak is right though….Senenyo and Scott are quality players, who are hugely missed.  In some ways we sacrificed some points / position last season by selling Semenyo in January, we could’ve finished top half with just one reversed result.  It’s, buts and maybes, accepted.

As for this season, whether we expected to keep Alex or not, he’s still a huge loss.  Alex and Antoine were “difference makers”.

This window will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Superjack]

On 02/01/2024 at 09:31, redkev said:

I totally agree but & big butt be careful what you wish for also remember we still have 22m debt hanging around our neck 

No.

Ffs no.