Millwall at home match thread

[maxjak]

1 step forwards followed by 2 steps backwards..........we are what we are..........an inconsistent mid table Championship side?  I don't believe we will see any significant progress until next season, and that is ONLY if LM is given a realistic transfer budget?   It is so frustrating when you see so many of our ex-players flourishing at other clubs......and then witness just how impotent our present team look at times?    It continues to be the case, that we languish in a football world where over two games, we take 1 point from Birmingham and Millwall without even scoring a goal?  Where there is life there is hope?,   apparently............but what a very depressing outcome, after the promise of Watford away?  A New Year.....but a same old Bristol City?   PS.  I do also fully appreciate that with the limited resources at our disposal, and the inevitable tiredness after a run of 3 games in 6 days.........it is a frustrating but almost understandable outcome??...........I am just pissed off, i guess, just like the majority at today's game!!   Happy New Year!

Edited January 1 by maxjak

[Supersonic Robin]

1 hour ago, Edgy Red said:

Sunderland, Watford and Hull play attacking football which leads to an open game. The Likes of Birmingham and Millwall don't play that way and we struggle badly to create anything against teams like that.

We have a hard working squad but sadly the quality in the final third isn't there (but we knew that anyway). There will be bumps in the road like today but i'm still hopeful that once Manning has added a few of his own players to the group, that we can develop a more fluent attacking game.

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I know no one wants to hear balance or perspective right now, but this is the Championship. The margins between most teams are fractional, which means you win games you might expect to lose and lose games you might expect to win.

So we didn’t play well today. But it’s a first defeat in five, and we don’t need to instantly dismiss a play off push off the back of one result against Millwall when we’re only 4 points away with 60 points still to play for - any more than we should suddenly assume we’re going to Wembley after an excellent win away at Watford.

Neither does it mean Manning is suddenly hopeless again, when he was Guardiola a few days ago.

Let’s at least try to keep some perspective on where we are. We are a midtable team doing midtable things. We will play poorly again and we will play well again. But the last few weeks have offered some encouragement and one poor result doesn’t undo all of that. 

I agree that there are tactical reasons as to why breaking down the teams at the bottom of the table can pose a slightly different challenge for us, but I still don't see that as a sufficient excuse for the poor results against said teams.

We can throw around cliches about "fine margins", "anybody can beat anybody", "there are no easy games" etc etc, but relatively speaking there ARE easy games. The teams in the bottom 6 are there for a reason - they give away more points than anyone else. Put simply, lots of other teams manage to beat them!

Since Manning has come in, our record against bottom 6 sides is P3: W0 D3 L0. We've also played 3 other teams in the bottom half (Norwich, Blackburn, Millwall) with a record of P3: W0 D0 L3. Not great.

This isn't about bashing Manning. It's just about explaining my original point: The "great results" against teams in the top half cease to be "great results" when they're just used to make up for the points you've dropped against bottom half (or even bottom 6) sides, rather than to push you towards a higher points total than you'd otherwise expect.

 

[MelksRed]

1 hour ago, HoldenBall said:

Are people still in denial about the ability of Conway? Looks out of his depth in every single game. 

He is getting absolutely no service. The issue starts with a lack of creative midfielders....the link between the defence (which is usually quite strong) and the forwards is likely a sieve......we lose the ball too easily in midfield. 

Add to that no movement off the ball (especially a thrown ins)....and be become to easy to read. 

Still have an over-reliance on going down the left. 

Weimman never in the right position to enable Tanner to play forward down the right....resulting in a backward pass....I've been critical of him....

But genuinely felt for the lad today. People (in the team) jumping on him telling him where to go....and they aren't in a playable position themselves. 

All in all a poor performance. 

[42nite]

Millwall were the better team and deserved the points.

[Red Army 75]

The game reminded me off when Manning first took over. The amount of times we went backwards from being 2/3rds up the pitch, just constantly slowed us down. 
 

In fairness to Millwall I thought they were very good , done a proper job on us. And played some good football 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, pj76 said:

Yeah... or on the other hand, it's a missed opportunity

Yeah tend to agree.

[Silvio Dante]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You don’t have to “judge”, but I think tonight there is a “critique”that asks - what did he do to wrestle Millwall’s dominance back in our favour?

It can’t always be achieved through personnel changes (substitutions)!

Millwall weren’t “so good” that nothing would’ve been worth do differently.  We didn’t even try to pump up to Cornick in the last 10 mins for example.  I know that’s not the answer when you’re building pressure, but we weren’t even doing that.

As you know Dave, I have expressed concern over Liams in game management and today was another example. I thought we set up quite badly  - if I look at the Brum game Anis went infield a lot which opened an avenue for Pring. We did the same today with Andi playing very much inside and therefore creating an avenue for Tanner - which isn’t his strength. Anis was wider and we ended up with a compressed centre - very much what a stronger and physical side like Millwall would want. The obvious change was in this case to ensure Andi went wider to stretch that side but it didn’t happen. The other tweak that should have happened was probably Cornick for Conway as TC was getting bullied. The subs when they came just seemed subs for the sake of subs and didn’t lead to any stylistic change.

It was poorly set up but then not remedied. Not a great mixture.

[Hartleysbeard]

Felt like a missed opportunity today. Credit to Millwall who executed their game plan well, but we never really got going. Very flat from front to back and absolutely no width. On a couple of occasions Williams and Knight broke between the lines and created more of a threat, but we didn’t do it enough. Thought Williams was lucky not to see red at the end; he lost his head! An absolutely needless shove into their player. To compound it he then headed straight down the tunnel at the end of the game, whilst the rest of the team faced the limp applause of what crowd remained. 

Fair play to Section 82 fans today who did their very best to get things going, despite having very little to get excited by on the pitch.

[Back of the Dolman]

Well just got back from the game, soaking wet and pretty bored by the football played.

All made worse by the fact I’m sure there were less park and ride buses operating today.

Anyway if I’m repeating what others have already said I apologise but I haven’t read through the whole thread.
Here goes, I know George Tanner gets a lot of abuse for playing the ball backwards but he had no other option most of the time today with Weimann playing in front of him or not as was the actual case.

i thought when a good option for a forward pass was on then George took it.

Our movement today was poor and I even heard Zak Vyner very clearly shout “F*^+~._ Move” to the players ahead of him today.

Millwall outmuscled us today and that style of team generally get the better of us.

We desperately need someone who can unlock these stubborn defences like Millwall and Birmingham and provide a spark to our play and get the fans excited.

I’d love to see us play 2 up top sometimes as I don’t think being a lone front man is Tommy Conway’s game at all.

That’ll do for now and let’s hope Mark Sykes isn’t out for too long.

[Beni71]

Thought Manning got that tactically wrong.

1. Rotating Sykes & TGH - why?

2. Inability to react and change the system where are 2 vs their 3 in central midfield totally nullified us and stopped us playing through the 3rds. 
 

3. Similar point to above but no plan B. What if you match Millwall and go 352?

It’s early days and I appreciate this isn’t Mannings team but he’s not inheriting a mess and there are no real bad apples in terms of culture/attitude. I don’t mind losing a game but that was as bad a game I’ve seen since Birmingham away (3 nil loss). 

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Back of the Dolman said:

Well just got back from the game, soaking wet and pretty bored by the football played.

All made worse by the fact I’m sure there were less park and ride buses operating today.

Anyway if I’m repeating what others have already said I apologise but I haven’t read through the whole thread.
Here goes, I know George Tanner gets a lot of abuse for playing the ball backwards but he had no other option most of the time today with Weimann playing in front of him or not as was the actual case.

i thought when a good option for a forward pass was on then George took it.

Our movement today was poor and I even heard Zak Vyner very clearly shout “F*^+~._ Move” to the players ahead of him today.

Millwall outmuscled us today and that style of team generally get the better of us.

We desperately need someone who can unlock these stubborn defences like Millwall and Birmingham and provide a spark to our play and get the fans excited.

I’d love to see us play 2 up top sometimes as I don’t think being a lone front man is Tommy Conway’s game at all.

That’ll do for now and let’s hope Mark Sykes isn’t out for too long.

Glad you saw the same as me and a minority of others with Tanner today. It was so obvious but clearly far easier to blame Tanner than the actual culprit!!

[redkev]

20 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Chris Martin. He’s knocking them in at League 1 level and in his last 6 months at Championship level did **** all. There is a difference.

It’s was only a joke uno , I do agree

[lenred]

That was absolutely diabolical today.  But then Watford was fantastic.  Birmingham poor performance, but a point on the road is always welcome.  Swings and roundabouts I guess but that was worrying for me today.  This notion that we are playing front foot football - I’m just not seeing it.   He really needs to up it during his ‘time on the grass’ that he seems to be so fond of telling us all about in interview because that felt like a real regression today.  Hopefully just a blip. 

Edited January 1 by lenred

[redkev]

15 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

No, if what you WANT to do isn’t working try something else even if it goes against your preferred principles of playing. We went down with a whimper (at best) today.

We have a habit of going down with a whimper , that’s what we do and have done under many a manager / team 

[Barrs Court Red]

29 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Did it achieve the dizzy heights of 'mediocre'??

I think it’s a fair label.  Not the worst performance we’ll ever see, always in the game, just lacking that sparkle. 

[Garland-sweden]

16 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

After a heavy new years eve, it was very difficult to stay awake watching that game. 

Did not drink New Year, bed early. Even then i fell aslep during the game, Robins TV.

 

 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

We didn't look well coached today

[Garland-sweden]

We looked like lowriders.

[Robbored]

33 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Hull 2 down at Sheffield Wednesday and West Brom lost at Swansea.

Not a huge amount of ground lost, albeit Sunderland beat Preston.

The olde adage “nothing is won or lost in January” applies perfectly here.

[One Team]

13 minutes ago, lenred said:

That was absolutely diabolical today.  But then Watford was fantastic.  Birmingham poor performance, but a point on the road is always welcome.  Swings and roundabouts I guess but that was worrying for me today.  This notion that we are playing front foot football - I’m just not seeing it.   He really needs to up it during his ‘time on the grass’ that he seems to be so fond of telling us all about in interview because that felt like a real regression today.  Hopefully just a blip. 

Agreed. He said on the radio after he’d only had a few weeks with the players on the grass. It’s been two months now, like many I thought it had started to click but today and Friday would say not, two of the most boring games of football seen in many a year. 

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, One Team said:

Agreed. He said on the radio after he’d only had a few weeks with the players on the grass. It’s been two months now, like many I thought it had started to click but today and Friday would say not, two of the most boring games of football seen in many a year. 

Tbf to Manning you don’t get time to coach over the Christmas and New Year period. Play, rest, one training session covering the opposition, play etc. You cannot “coach” in that schedule to be honest. He now has an opportunity to “coach” and hopefully we see some more consistency in performance over the coming weeks.

[1team]

5 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We didn't look well coached today

 

5 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We didn't look well coached today

Those who have been aghast at the NP situation are now justifiably feeling smug. There was no need for the change and now the new manager bounce has finished we have reverted back to what we are, an inconsistent mid table team. I am 60 years into supporting this club, 30 as a season ticket holder and 15 as a season ticket holder with my children so I feel its my team. I might not have billions but a significant amount of my time and money has been invested. No one is interested I know but you can't keep defending this incompetence. 

[maxjak]

Just now, One Team said:

Agreed. He said on the radio after he’d only had a few weeks with the players on the grass. It’s been two months now, like many I thought it had started to click but today and Friday would say not, two of the most boring games of football seen in many a year. 

It might seem like an easy excuse...........but with a small squad....3 games in 6 days is inevitably going to lower performances?  As much as i love watching football, that amount of physical effort seriously lowers quality, and produces some dire matches?  Too many games, in too short a period, often  fails to give out a lot of entertainment?

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

As you know Dave, I have expressed concern over Liams in game management and today was another example. I thought we set up quite badly  - if I look at the Brum game Anis went infield a lot which opened an avenue for Pring. We did the same today with Andi playing very much inside and therefore creating an avenue for Tanner - which isn’t his strength. Anis was wider and we ended up with a compressed centre - very much what a stronger and physical side like Millwall would want. The obvious change was in this case to ensure Andi went wider to stretch that side but it didn’t happen. The other tweak that should have happened was probably Cornick for Conway as TC was getting bullied. The subs when they came just seemed subs for the sake of subs and didn’t lead to any stylistic change.

It was poorly set up but then not remedied. Not a great mixture.

I don’t blame the starting set-up…it’s about us imposing our game on them, so that they make a change.  I was happy enough at h-t, they did nothing, we controlled but couldn’t create.  If the game carries on like that, we probably end up creating something.  Problem was it didn’t, and “we” had no answer.

At the start I was interested to see how we coped with with their 3421 / 541, how we’d split their 3 CBs in the press.

I failed to see any difference to our approach, we still went 442 w/o the ball in the main.  As you say, Weimann drifted in, Mehmeti stayed wide, so that was about it.  We didn’t see that reversed at any point in the first half, which might’ve been sensible.

They (Millwall) therefore blocked those pockets that Knight finds.

The players didn’t find any solutions, and nor did the manager.

Its at times like this I’d really like to hear from James Krause as to what the gameplan was, pre-game and during it.

1 minute ago, One Team said:

Agreed. He said on the radio after he’d only had a few weeks with the players on the grass. It’s been two months now, like many I thought it had started to click but today and Friday would say not, two of the most boring games of football seen in many a year. 

That comment disappointed me, it’s an excuse.

[Numero Uno]

Just now, maxjak said:

It might seem like an easy excuse...........but with a small squad....3 games in 6 days is inevitably going to lower performances?  As much as i love watching football, that amount of physical effort seriously lowers quality, and produces some dire matches?  Too many games, in too short a period, often  fails to give out a lot of entertainment?

Spot on and needs looking at. We all love football but nobody enjoys watching that today.

[Numero Uno]

26 minutes ago, redkev said:

It’s was only a joke uno , I do agree

You’re humour was to subtle for me. Done like a kipper

[maxjak]

5 minutes ago, 1team said:

 

Those who have been aghast at the NP situation are now justifiably feeling smug. There was no need for the change and now the new manager bounce has finished we have reverted back to what we are, an inconsistent mid table team. I am 60 years into supporting this club, 30 as a season ticket holder and 15 as a season ticket holder with my children so I feel its my team. I might not have billions but a significant amount of my time and money has been invested. No one is interested I know but you can't keep defending this incompetence. 

The only thing i would point out is..............NP had 32 months, and quite a few transfer windows, LM has had just under 2 months, and NO transfer   windows.  So a comparison at present is fatuous?  Make like a Jedi....and show a little patience?

[The turtle]

4 hours ago, real_bristol said:

A little flat but mostly in ******control******. seems like that is the way we play now as we suss out the opposition. Need to get Tommy involved somehow. Sykes on for Weimann please.

In the manning era, there is no word i hate more.

Any game where it's used as a positive.

A. It's an extremely dull game.

B. If it stays that way it doesn't end well.

[phantom]

2 hours ago, INCRED said:

You won’t see Benarous this season 

I have a horrible feeling we'll never see him in a City shirt again 

2 hours ago, chinapig said:

But that is a different matter. I was responding to you saying 'Why does everyone keep thinking we're likely to get top 6?'

You'd be hard pressed to find fans who think anything of the sort. Perhaps JL and BT have to believe it is true so they can convince themselves they have made the right decisions. We're not so easily persuaded.

I couldn't make the game today but watched on Robins TV. Joe Burnell was the guest summariser he even mentioned JL stating we're a top six side, you could tell by the way he said it he didn’t believe it either. 

On a side issue, does Joe Burnell work for the club as he was wearing a City jacket and tie. 

But also mentioned he's getting the train to WHU with friends to support the team 

2 hours ago, pj76 said:

I felt the referee didn't help. The fight at the end was the most exciting thing for the whole game, but it would never have happened if he'd taken action over the constant cynical fouls throughout.

Interesting, others have said the opposite that he helped by letting the game flow 

2 hours ago, westonred said:

Anyone else think the players were out on the p*ss last night celebrating NYE   That might explain the awful performance

Sadly didn't happen, at least it could have been a good reason to be so lacklustre 

[Jerseybean]

LM post match said ‘We need to be braver with the ball’ Think he meant ‘We need to be better with the ball’

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/video/interviews/we-need-to-be-braver-with-the-ball-manning/