Best we've played in years

[ChrisJ]

Just now, W-S-M Seagull said:

I can't justify anything when I have absolutely zero clue what your post meant. Maybe you can reword it? 

On what basis is our defense “definately a top 6 defense”, where is your evidence for this

Just now, Davefevs said:

Here’s some measures.

Just because you can’t provide or don’t agree, doesn’t mean it’s unfounded…does it?

Manning has continued the progress defensively.  We are on more than goals conceded a good defensive team.

 

Sorry where does thi say we are a top 6 defense? 

[Robbored]

15 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Or rather than going back to the LJ days of hoping the solution is buying more players, we could coach our players to provide Tommy with chances that suit him? 

Tommy has the ability to get 15-20 goals in this league. The problem isn't with Tommy. 

He has and no one is blaming TC at all. The point is that if he had a more powerful strike partner it’s likely that City would score more goals.

[Sheltons Army]

Just now, Robbored said:

He has and no one is blaming TC at all. The point is that if he had a more powerful strike partner it’s likely that City would score more goals.

And exactly what do you mean by .......‘more powerful’......

 

 

[Red Skin]

15 hours ago, 38MC said:

It’s one thing I am starting to see in Manning’s short era, there are some real partnerships and understandings being created. Pring and Mehmeti seem to get each other and know when to overload on the left or defend as a unit, Tanner and McCrorie the exact same. Vyner being the lynchpin in the whole of defence. 

The partnerships that aren’t being created is up top. And maybe that’s the last piece in the jigsaw. Conway is just far too isolated at the moment. He’s dangerous when he’s being a Lone Ranger and creating his own chaos, when we attack as a team he’s just not around. I don’t know yet if it’s incompatibility or something that can be improved. Wells isn’t the answer either. We don’t look any better when we swap them. 
 

im not yet jumping on the bandwagon that we don’t create chances. I think we do create dangerous ‘situations’, we’re just getting blocked out as I think we overplay and try to walk the ball in. I think our forwards need more freedom to just hit the bloody ball towards goal rather than try to create a high xg chance. Ain’t there a phrase ‘it’s the chances you don’t take that you lose’ or something. I think applies to us - and often to most ‘new wave’ managers. You can fanny around to create a high xg chance, or you can pot shot at a higher proportion of lower xg chances. I much favour the latter. 

I think it's the overall cohesion of the team and their ability to stay in shape to stifle Forest when Forest did have the ball that impressed me  Everyone seems to understand their role and positionally where they need to be when attacking and just importantly when they are defending.

Yes, we probably need a different kind of striker to complement what we said that's what we are after.  

I do think we will see quite a dramatic change to our CM over the summer.  Players that can break the lines and beat their man are at a premium, but this is what I feel we will look to replace the likes of Williams and James with.   Feels like so much of our defensive strength comes from our shape and discipline that we may not need specialist CMs as much.  Yes, midfielders that can defend but also ones that are more attack minded will see use improve our creativity.

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

He has and no one is blaming TC at all. The point is that if he had a more powerful strike partner it’s likely that City would score more goals.

Currently he doesn't have a strike partner at all because we don't play with two strikers. 

We'd need to change formation to play with two strikers. 

I would like to see Cornick and Conway play together as I think Harry is one that likes to get stuck in. 

[Silvio Dante]

For the first time under LM, I didn’t watch the game last night (travelling), so it’s been interesting to read the threads and the various viewpoints. 
 

Whats noticeable from that is that there seems to have been a consensus from LM “doubters” that last night was a step up - but not maybe as much as a step up as the pro-LM group are stating. It is possible that Forest weren’t up for it - but you can only beat or draw what’s in front of you. I’m seeing a lot of encouraging comments but if we didn’t have a shot on target, that isn’t necessarily cause for hyperbole.

Summary - seems like it was better but lacking penetration?

[Robbored]

17 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

And exactly what do you mean by .......‘more powerful’......

Bigger build with greater upper body strength. Someone to hassle and bully defenders creating opportunities for others.

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Bigger build with greater upper body strength. Someone to hassle and bully defenders creating opportunities for others.

Cornick then? 

[Sheltons Army]

6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Bigger build with greater upper body strength. Someone to hassle and bully defenders creating opportunities for others.

Technical Ability ?
Pace ?

Or just a lump ?

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Cornick then? 

He’s the same height as Conway and doesn’t have the necessary upper body strength.

[Fuber]

18 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Well played, every man jack of you. Proud of the lot of you tonight, coaches included. Completely dominant, modern and progressive. Front foot football !

Agree with this... up to the last 20-30 yards.

The one element Manning needs to solve is patterns to use in the final third to break down defences and try to eliminate some of our poorer decision making - something NP didn't have to worry about with his transitory style when we played on the break (and part of the reason he used it).

We're still three scored in seven. We need to turn some of this momentum into more chance creation.

[95red]

11 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

For the first time under LM, I didn’t watch the game last night (travelling), so it’s been interesting to read the threads and the various viewpoints. 
 

Whats noticeable from that is that there seems to have been a consensus from LM “doubters” that last night was a step up - but not maybe as much as a step up as the pro-LM group are stating. It is possible that Forest weren’t up for it - but you can only beat or draw what’s in front of you. I’m seeing a lot of encouraging comments but if we didn’t have a shot on target, that isn’t necessarily cause for hyperbole.

Summary - seems like it was better but lacking penetration?

We aint gonna win the FA Cup yep decent  performances ,league  form woeful  I certainly ain't getting excited 

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

He’s the same height as Conway and doesn’t have the necessary upper body strength.

If you want this ‘more powerful’ striker alongside TC

What formation are you suggesting and ,and  I was serious about the attributes q as LM clearly has core philosophies 

 

[redrob]

5 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

waffle. If we don’t create chances we won’t score goals . It’s pretty simple 

We didn't create chances? We're you watching a different game to me?

We clearly did create chances as I've identified two above. 

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

I added ‘need’ just now.

I don’t have a problem with TC either but frequently feel that he’s isolated especially when City are in excellent crossing positions and think that a  powerful CF would be an ideal foil.

For many years strikers have played pairings. Manning doesn’t seem to ply two up top tho.

 

He doesn’t, nor does he appear to service a single striker in the usual way either.  Hence why my opinion is that getting a new striker is a bit futile.

[petehinton]

2 hours ago, ChrisJ said:

Just get on with it??? He is being interviewed and entitled to express his viewpoint if it’s a frustration for him!!! **** me Pearson non stop referencing time and time again the situation we was in….just get on with it!!! So did Holden just get on with it!!! We know we had no money….just get on with it!!! 2 6 day gaps!!!! How many years did Pearson and Johnson have!!!

Is everything okay mate?

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He doesn’t, nor does he appear to service a single striker in the usual way either.  Hence why my opinion is that getting a new striker is a bit futile.

What’s Manning trying to do Dave? You’re much more of student of the game than many of us are.

We have solid defence but aren’t scoring enough goals. Surely that’s obvious but how to improve it?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, ChrisJ said:

On what basis is our defense “definately a top 6 defense”, where is your evidence for this

Sorry where does thi say we are a top 6 defense? 

If you can’t see it, maybe a simple league table would’ve sufficed?  I tried to give you some additional attributes, but seems that wasn’t worth me bothering!

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

What’s Manning trying to do Dave? You’re much more of student of the game than many of us are.

We have solid defence but aren’t scoring enough goals. Surely that’s obvious but how to improve it?

My simple summary and you’ll read similar from a @spudskipost this morning - we aren’t trying to / be allowed to play through the most threatening area of the pitch, I.e. the middle.  We are forced to go wide and that lowers our chances. We’ll have to wait to see what happens over a longer term, but if our outlets are wide, that kinda dictates it.  He needs to find a way of mixing it up / getting balls that break lines centrally in the final third.

[Red Skin]

24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My simple summary and you’ll read similar from a @spudskipost this morning - we aren’t trying to / be allowed to play through the most threatening area of the pitch, I.e. the middle.  We are forced to go wide and that lowers our chances. We’ll have to wait to see what happens over a longer term, but if our outlets are wide, that kinda dictates it.  He needs to find a way of mixing it up / getting balls that break lines centrally in the final third.

I think we did see passes to break the lines didn't we?  Maybe just as many as we'd like.   I think this is more of case of having the players cute enough to move inside to receive it and give an option of a pass through the lines. 

In the League I'd like to see a front 3 of Sykes, Conway and Twine. 

The way we seem to attack is for two wider players of the front three moving inside to free space for the wingbacks to push up.  Then it's all quick one touch triangles.  With Sykes and Twine working as inside forwards between the lines, they are capable of running at the defence and finding Conway's runs (or use him as a decoy and take it on themselves).  Or releasing Pring/McCrorie down the lines. 

You then gotta think about who is capable of seeing Sykes and Twine and can finding them with a pass?  Certainly Dickie and probably Knight, TGH. 

I feeling it's building incrementally.  We have the defence largely sorted, and team structure in place to snuff out attacks.  We are now controlling games for longer periods.  Now we need to hone how we attack.  

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

I think we did see passes to break the lines didn't we?  Maybe just as many as we'd like.   I think this is more of case of having the players cute enough to move inside to receive it and give an option of a pass through the lines. 

In the League I'd like to see a front 3 of Sykes, Conway and Twine. 

The way we seem to attack is for two wider players of the front three moving inside to free space for the wingbacks to push up.  Then it's all quick one touch triangles.  With Sykes and Twine working as inside forwards between the lines, they are capable of running at the defence and finding Conway's runs (or use him as a decoy and take it on themselves).  Or releasing Pring/McCrorie down the lines. 

You then gotta think about who is capable of seeing Sykes and Twine and can finding them with a pass?  Certainly Dickie and probably Knight, TGH. 

I feeling it's building incrementally.  We have the defence largely sorted, and team structure in place to snuff out attacks.  We are now controlling games for longer periods.  Now we need to hone how we attack.  

But that’s not what is actually happening.  They are taking up those positions BUT they aren’t getting on the ball in those positions, so it’s not all quick one touch triangles, we aren’t hurting our opposition.  They are getting screened from receiving those passes so virtually everything goes wide first, then opponents squeeze that half of the pitch and then isn’t the space to feed the front three.

If it was happening as you suggest, Conway would be revelling in it.

 

[DaveInSA]

my brother's post match review : boring as ****

[McNasty Filth]

7 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

I honestly think that mehmeti isn’t intelligent enough as a player. He’ll do well against league one defenders but struggles against better players. Also if you notice some of our players (Pring) especially getting frustrated with him. I’ve said before . The higher you go , the big difference is decision making. He doesn’t see the picture quickly enough & dwells on the ball too much which indicates it. 
I don’t think you can coach that. I hope I’m wrong but it didn’t take long for manning to give him a run then replace him with twine . 

Absolutely this. Real top players already have this built in.

In some ways I believe it can be coached but in my opinion would take a lightbulb moment from the player, either being coached by a mentor type figure on the same wavelength, who they respect massively or to develop his/hers spiritual intellect i.e they have to realise that the team comes first...ALWAYS.

For a talented player that has come through the ranks this is such a hard thing to compute because they have always been the centre of attention and lauded for their individuality. Here within lies the challenge for said player in finding the balance of split second decision making, making the pass or running with the ball. Gifted players don't have this issue because it's inherently built in and something they don't really have to think about, it just happens naturally. They will be able to visualise and make a run accordingly to receive the ball back, or make dummy runs to pull another player out of position etc etc.

Obviously it's so much more difficult for players further down the football pyramid, because it's unlikely they will be playing with team-mates on a similar wavelength to orchestrate individual improvements in decision-making.

I too am not sure whether Mehmeti has this ability or has the potential ability i.e. character, intelligence etc.

[mozo]

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Also a combo of both subbed players picked up yellow…so part tactical, part sensible.

Sorry to be a pedant, but we didn’t….we shared possession 50:50 (first half 55:45 / second half 45:55)

FWIW, I liked how we played tonight, but we never caused them many problems in the central areas of the pitch, and that is why we aren’t creating better chances.  I’m not gonna sit here and moan tonight, becayse I enjoyed it, but I’m cognisant that it’s possibly me wearing rose tinted glasses because it was PL opponents, rather than it was a top performance - if that makes sense.

Manning clearly wants Twine to be the player to create chances centrally. He's the type that can do that. Last night we didn't have him or anyone like him, so hardly surprising that we couldn't unlock a defence comprising of decent centre backs plus Mangala.

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, mozo said:

Manning clearly wants Twine to be the player to create chances centrally. He's the type that can do that. Last night we didn't have him or anyone like him, so hardly surprising that we couldn't unlock a defence comprising of decent centre backs plus Mangala.

That is the big hope isn’t it?  Personally I think it will take more than Twine, but that’s just me.

[Baldyman]

Loving the quality of our football right now BUT it is a real gamble to play this way . By only playing one up top we have a lot more possession and can also defend further up the pitch but in the Championship you actually need a Premier league quality striker that can turn all of the possession into goals . As I said , im loving the quality of the football but I fear that it’s unrealistic to expect us to ever get our hands on someone up top with the ability to turn possession into points and for us to then keep hold of him ! Time will tell . 

[MarcusX]

3 hours ago, ChrisJ said:

Top 6 defense is it what you basing that on. Track record, wages, experience, goals conceded, goals scored, Ariel duels won, mistakes leading to goals, fee, passing stats, interceptions, blocks I mean what a waste of time people making pointless unfounded statements based on nothing. 

Well only 4 teams have conceded less?

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

My simple summary and you’ll read similar from a @spudskipost this morning - we aren’t trying to / be allowed to play through the most threatening area of the pitch, I.e. the middle.  We are forced to go wide and that lowers our chances. We’ll have to wait to see what happens over a longer term, but if our outlets are wide, that kinda dictates it.  He needs to find a way of mixing it up / getting balls that break lines centrally in the final third.

So……in simple terms by going wide isn’t it more beneficial to have two strikers in the box? Surely that would increase the chances of scoring?

[Red Skin]

58 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But that’s not what is actually happening.  They are taking up those positions BUT they aren’t getting on the ball in those positions, so it’s not all quick one touch triangles, we aren’t hurting our opposition.  They are getting screened from receiving those passes so virtually everything goes wide first, then opponents squeeze that half of the pitch and then isn’t the space to feed the front three.

If it was happening as you suggest, Conway would be revelling in it.

 

I don't think this is happening, but it seems to be what they are trying.   I think Mehmeti is getting it in the right position at times, but he isn't releasing it quickly enough.  Knight gets it right at times too, but isn't really as suited to that role as maybe Sykes.  (I actually think Bell is the sort of clever player that can execute this too).   When Knight gets in the position to go it alone from inside right, he just doesn't have the finishing/composure to score (as we saw with his chance against West Ham where he dragged it wide). 

We definitely aren't seeing the one touch quick passing though.  

Dickie can spot the pass inside and execute.  Vyner can see it but his execution isn't great.  

Looks to me that this is how we are attempting to attack, but the players in those 'inside forward' roles aren't the best at execution and the passes aren't coming.  I agree, the opposition are screening too.  It's fine margins to make it come off, but I think it will come. When it does, as you say, Conway will have a field day and he will get his rewards for all the work he is doing. 

Edited January 27 by Red Skin

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, Robbored said:

So……in simple terms by going wide isn’t it more beneficial to have two strikers in the box? Surely that would increase the chances of scoring?

So which player are you leaving out to get the second striker on the pitch and what impact does that have.

It’s just like a bunch of levers, pulling one impacts another part of our game.

FWIW I’d leave out one of the 3 CBs, but I’d need to tweak a few other things too.