Take a bow Liam Manning

[Davefevs]

26 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

Not sure if you'd have it, and it's a very basic one, but do you have the pure possession for each third of the pitch?

 

Doesn't even have to be split by team, just how much of the time the ball was in our defensive third/middle of the pitch/Soton defensive third.

I’ve used my “report” allowance for the month on Wyscout, but have asked someone if they wouldn’t mind downloading for me using theirs.

It don’t tell you exactly what you want, but it’ll help position it.

[Davefevs]

Message to LM - be Liam Manning!

[Sheltons Army]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve used my “report” allowance for the month on Wyscout, but have asked someone if they wouldn’t mind downloading for me using theirs.

It don’t tell you exactly what you want, but it’ll help position it.

Dan Ashworth messaged me this morning , had unsuccessfully been trying to get hold of you 

Something about a move For him and a new opportunity for you - ok to give him your number ?

 

 

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

13 hours ago, MC RISK77 said:

The main man- getting this group ticking now, just hope it’s not a case of  after the Lloyd mayors show on Saturday.

Is that Hugh Lloyd, Dan Lloyd, John Lloyd etc? 

[chinapig]

41 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Message to LM - be Liam Manning!

He always comes across as vain but going to greet his adoring fans before the game is another level of cringe.

[Davefevs]

49 minutes ago, chinapig said:

He always comes across as vain but going to greet his adoring fans before the game is another level of cringe.

I know someone who knows him, and says he’s a really nice down to earth bloke….but I can’t get past these kind of actions.

[Davefevs]

@transfer reader this is what I can glean.  What is your interpretation?

Mine is - they overplay with their CBs.

[transfer reader]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@transfer reader this is what I can glean.  What is your interpretation?

Mine is - they overplay with their CBs.

Roughly aligns with what I was thinking I'd see on the graphic I asked about. Which, if I was to guess would look something along the lines of Soton 1/3 18% middle third 58% our 1/3 24% (arbitrary numbers but that kind of rough distribution. Hopefully you understand the type of graphic I mean)

Is the average position one total or with the ball? If it's total then it shows we really weren't forced deep particularly.

Pass map and frequency chart, very overplayed along their back line.

I also thought when watching the game we were very specific about the triggers on when we pressed.

It wasn't a crazy high press, but a very disciplined one that was looking for certain triggers and happy to let them pass it around the back until they set one off.

Having more possessions reaching their penalty area (as a % as well as total) aligns with the attacking momentum from Sofascore.

But them having more that reached our half, quite often sat in that middle third of the pitch.

Not sure there'd be any easy way to represent it, but it felt like we tried to play the cutting final ball more often than them.

 

Not as succinct as your conclusion but that's my quick take from looking over them

[Davefevs]

46 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

Roughly aligns with what I was thinking I'd see on the graphic I asked about. Which, if I was to guess would look something along the lines of Soton 1/3 18% middle third 58% our 1/3 24% (arbitrary numbers but that kind of rough distribution. Hopefully you understand the type of graphic I mean)

 

Yep, totally.

46 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

Is the average position one total or with the ball? If it's total then it shows we really weren't forced deep particularly.

Pass map and frequency chart, very overplayed along their back line.

It’s the average position they make a pass from.

For me they had a little spell first half where they pushed us back.

The big thing that surprised me last night was they KWP didn’t really get forward that much.  I thought they’d try to create lots of 2v1 versus Roberts.

After 10mins, Brooks dropped deep then into KWP’s RB berth, whilst KWP moved wide right.  However it was more rotation of positions than creating overloads.  And they didn’t really do it until that spell they had later in the first half.

You can see in the average position map, he played more like a RB than I expected.

1 hour ago, transfer reader said:

Not sure there'd be any easy way to represent it, but it felt like we tried to play the cutting final ball more often than them.

I think the fact that we had more possessions reaching the penalty area (22v17) shows that we were more clinical and attack-minded in the final part of the pitch.

All-in-all, we were the better side.

[W-S-M Seagull]

7 hours ago, Cole Not Gas said:

Cornick couldn't trap a ball in a barnyard but can now score crackers and make good runs

That's a bit false isn't it? 

He's always been good at making runs for us.

He's scored 1 goal under Manning and 1 under Pearson this season so why are you trying to frame it as something different? 

At the very least you have some recency bias going on here. 

Since Manning has come in he has seen his minutes reduced quite significantly. 

Here's his goal against Plymouth earlier on in the season as you have seemingly erased it from your memory bank. 

 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

That's a bit false isn't it? 

He's always been good at making runs for us.

He's scored 1 goal under Manning and 1 under Pearson this season so why are you trying to frame it as something different? 

At the very least you have some recency bias going on here. 

Since Manning has come in he has seen his minutes reduced quite significantly. 

Here's his goal against Plymouth earlier on in the season as you have seemingly erased it from your memory bank. 

 

Cornick has made more of an impact this season, regardless of manager. Imho.

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Cornick has made more of an impact this season, regardless of manager. Imho.

Absolutely. I think when he arrived here he was quite unfit or not up to our fitness standards? 

So a good solid pre season has done him well. 

Also I think not all January signings make an impact. Take a while to settle etc. 

But I really like Cornick. He's selfless and will work incredibly hard. Yes he may lack a bit of quality but he makes up for that with his work rate. He will run through brick walls for us. 

I pointed out to my mate yesterday he sprinted all the way back from the opposition box to near our box and then when we regained the ball about the time he arrived he then turned around and sprinted back to the opposition box. I love that sort of thing. 

[WECANDO]

8 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

That's a bit false isn't it? 

He's always been good at making runs for us.

He's scored 1 goal under Manning and 1 under Pearson this season so why are you trying to frame it as something different? 

At the very least you have some recency bias going on here. 

Since Manning has come in he has seen his minutes reduced quite significantly. 

Here's his goal against Plymouth earlier on in the season as you have seemingly erased it from your memory bank. 

 

 Cornick is better than people give him credit. He needs to play in midfield and use his undoubted pace to make runs into the opponents box. Perhaps behind a front player ie Conway. As he did last night to great effect. 

[Cole Not Gas]

W-S-M; i stand corrected - or at least reminded. That goal against Plymo was a good one as was our entire game under Pearson, albeit against a very weakened and disappointing Pasty side.

You are also right, or DF is, that he has improved hugely under both managers this season; i just think he is much more of a 'team player' (apologies for cliche) now, seems to be liked by other players, manager and crowd so perhaps a virtuous circle there. As i have said this is nothing against Pearson, it is simply that several players look much more like they know what to do and when since Liam arrived. There seemed to be very few errors last night?

[transfer reader]

I think Cornick is improved overall this season, however would add he's looked more effective or likely to create something in the last month or so, despite relatively limited minutes.

[Mr Popodopolous]

In respect of Cornick, there has been an element of fine margins too.

If not for fine margins we could have been walking away with 4 points vs West Brom and Ipswich, with Cornick the reason. Great save by Palmer/narrow miss and in particular the shot that hit the post and rolled along the line v Ipswich.

Maybe 4 could even have become 6 as we had the momentum at that point, the crowd was getting into it..from that individual and collective seasons can develop.

[SecretSam]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, totally.

It’s the average position they make a pass from.

For me they had a little spell first half where they pushed us back.

The big thing that surprised me last night was they KWP didn’t really get forward that much.  I thought they’d try to create lots of 2v1 versus Roberts.

After 10mins, Brooks dropped deep then into KWP’s RB berth, whilst KWP moved wide right.  However it was more rotation of positions than creating overloads.  And they didn’t really do it until that spell they had later in the first half.

You can see in the average position map, he played more like a RB than I expected.

I think the fact that we had more possessions reaching the penalty area (22v17) shows that we were more clinical and attack-minded in the final part of the pitch.

All-in-all, we were the better side.

Now, I'm quite a smart chap, but I have absolutely no idea what Dave's on about here.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, SecretSam said:

Now, I'm quite a smart chap, but I have absolutely no idea what Dave's on about here.

Big Tone Condensed: we stopped Walker-Peters

[SecretSam]

Just now, Davefevs said:

Big Tone Condensed: we stopped Walker-Peters

More my level, thanks 

[REDOXO]

40 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

I think Cornick is improved overall this season, however would add he's looked more effective or likely to create something in the last month or so, despite relatively limited minutes.

 Cornick is a good player. My personal opinion is people thought he was a center forward and this was exacerbated by him being thrown in to get a goal.

However last night and for the first half In Middlesbrough he was playing behind and to the left picking the ball up and making runs and passes. He also seems to have acquired an extra yard of pace in that position as well. 

What Mr Manning appears to be trying to do is make the game about putting players in to keep work rates high and not the traditional he’s having a poor game pull him off mentality. 
 

He also very obviously likes to shift our shape depending on possession, time, score line and opposition. 
 

If he can get results in a very winable next two then I’m sure supporters will be won over by what he is trying to achieve and how. 
 

He’s got Naismith to come back and hopefully Sykes will be fit enough not just to be an emergency option. Any further news on Atkinson and Benerous?

 

Edited February 14 by REDOXO

[transfer reader]

Just now, REDOXO said:

 Cornick is a good player. My personal opinion is people thought he was a center forward and this was exacerbated by him being thrown in to get a goal.

However last night and for the first half In Middlesbrough he was playing behind and to the left picking the ball up and making runs and passes. He also seems to have acquired an extra yard of pace in that position as well. 

What Mr Manning appears to be trying to do is make the game about putting players in to keep work rates high and not the traditional he’s having a poor game pull him off mentality. 
 

He also very obviously likes to shift our shape depending on time, score line and opposition. 
 

If he can get results in a very winable next two then I’m sure supporters will be won over by what he is trying to achieve and how. 
 

He’s got Naismith to come back and hopefully Sykes will be fit enough not just to be an emergency option. Any further news on Atkinson and Benerous?

 

I think Atkinson had a setback in the U21 game. Not sure about Benarous.

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, transfer reader said:

I think Atkinson had a setback in the U21 game. Not sure about Benarous.

Yes I believe there was a scan today?

[cidered abroad]

9 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Equally Fordy, we won last night but once the round of matches is over tonight we could, with a hefty Boro win at PNE, be back in 12th.

So perhaps it's actually the case that when we win we stagnate in mid-table.

But our problem is that we don't win too many consecutively. If we could go W W D W D D W for example we'd have 15 points out of 7 games which would push us into top six. 

So if we could cure our inconsistent points gathering and even won at home all the time, we would see a big difference.

[Superjack]

10 hours ago, downendcity said:

I've said before that the opinions lot of the so called "pro Pearson" and/or " anti Manning" posters are perhaps more reflective of their feelings towards the ownership than they are of the respective manager or coach.

Pearson's attributes made him the right man for the job at the time he came here and for the same reasons, agree with you that Manning would not have been. There are things that Pearson was able to do that Manning could not have done, but I also think and hope that there will be things that Manning will go on to do and achieve that perhaps Pearson could not have.

However, I can also understand that for an owner ( and SL wasn't the first in NP's career) there might be a limit to how much bloody minded cussedness you can take and continue to work with.  Because of his age, and also that there was uncertainty as to whether Pearson would stay beyond his initial contract ( before things obviously blew up towards the end) I wonder whether the club had earmarked Manning as a successor. There is little doubt in my mind that Pearson was backing the club into a corner and, as it seems that Manning was being closely looked at by a number of championship clubs at that time according to a lot of press comment, perhaps they made the decision to move before they were left with the worst of all worlds i.e. Pearson going and Manning already snapped up by a rival. 

The shambles around Pearson's departure was terribly handled by the club - of that there is no doubt. However, I wonder whether if, in the not too distant future, we will look back on Pearson's sacking and Manning's appointment as perhaps SL's best decision among numerous bad ones, and will recognise the excellent job both Pearson and Manning did at the times both came to the club.

 

 

 

 

I truly hope that you are right. 

I have to say that I doubt it though. 

The bottom line for me is that given the job Pearson had done in getting the whole club back on track after years of mismanagement, the owners should have sucked up a bit of criticism and backed him to finish the job he so adeptly started.

[ExiledAjax]

30 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

But our problem is that we don't win too many consecutively. If we could go W W D W D D W for example we'd have 15 points out of 7 games which would push us into top six. 

So if we could cure our inconsistent points gathering and even won at home all the time, we would see a big difference.

That run is pretty unlikely to push us into the top 6.

15 gives us 59 points. You're therefore relying on each of the teams above us picking up no more than 11 (1.57 ppg) in the case of Norwich and Hull, or 12 (1.71 ppg) in the case of Coventry and Sunderland. If any one of them managed to achieve that then they'd inevitably have a better GD than us and we'd stay 7th or maybe even 8th.

Coventry and Norwich are both currently on 13 points from their last 6 (2.16 ppg). Sunderland are on 10 from 6 (1.66 ppg) and Hull on 9 from 6 (1.5 ppg).

So even if we do what you say and go at 2.14 ppg over the next few games, you need all 4 of those teams in that play off chasing pack to drop form if we were to move into the top 6.

That's why it's so unlikely to happen even if we go on an incredible unbeaten run.

Here's the current table.

Edited February 14 by ExiledAjax

[stephenkibby.]

49 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

That run is pretty unlikely to push us into the top 6.

15 gives us 59 points. You're therefore relying on each of the teams above us picking up no more than 11 (1.57 ppg) in the case of Norwich and Hull, or 12 (1.71 ppg) in the case of Coventry and Sunderland. If any one of them managed to achieve that then they'd inevitably have a better GD than us and we'd stay 7th or maybe even 8th.

Coventry and Norwich are both currently on 13 points from their last 6 (2.16 ppg). Sunderland are on 10 from 6 (1.66 ppg) and Hull on 9 from 6 (1.5 ppg).

So even if we do what you say and go at 2.14 ppg over the next few games, you need all 4 of those teams in that play off chasing pack to drop form if we were to move into the top 6.

That's why it's so unlikely to happen even if we go on an incredible unbeaten run.

Here's the current table.

Can you stop coming on here and being the voice of reason and dashing our dreams.

[steviestevieneville]

Realistically there’s only 6th place to go for & plenty of traffic in the way. I’d just like us to get more consistent in the last few months of this campaign  Manning having a pre season & a bit of genuine optimism going into next season 

[ExiledAjax]

14 minutes ago, stephenkibby. said:

Can you stop coming on here and being the voice of reason and dashing our dreams.

It's the grim side of mathematics and football. It looks like "only" 4 points. But the damned thing is that these other teams keep playing games and keep getting points as well.

How's this though. If we go at 3 points per game and get 21 from 7. Then it's on.

Edited February 14 by ExiledAjax

[maxjak]

10 hours ago, TV Tom said:

I was one of the biggest voices in wanting and agreeing that NP should of gone but i have stopped trying to justify my opinion in any posts in the last month or so and have decided to not mention him as it causes too much division, might be wise for others to do the same and just get behind the new manager and leave out the snidey comments  ? 

Some people just don't get it?     As I couldn't be MORE behind the new Manager    .....and my comment was far from snidey IMO.      You must surely be aware of the constant criticism   LM has received by a number of posters since he was appointed, forever stating that we are no better off than before NP was dismissed?   I have always taken the stance that comparing his achievements over a period since November   (21 games yesterday)    with NP's two and a half years was misleading and unfair, and that patience and tolerance were needed to allow LM to introduce and adopt a new playing style.  I stated on numerous occasions, that given time, I  felt that LM  would be prove to be a success  and in the long term would prove to be a  major step forward.  But NO, I was told by other posters that we are NO better off, and why was NP dismissed, as we should have stuck with him, and are in the same place as we were under NP anyway?   My remark was aimed at those posters who constantly referred to the "Nothing has Changed"       syndrome, and was meant as a humourous reference to their lack of patience with the new manager.....who has, as i have predicted  on numerous instances started to turn things around.         I  note that i have received around 20 replies to my innocuous aside, I cannot be bothered to read any , other than yours, as i imagine they are of the same kneejerk quality, and completely miss my point?    To finish, if you can be bothered to read......I was a big fan of NP, and felt he was poorly treated by management, but just like you,  I more than adequately have got behind the new manager, and have defended his approach and tactics on this forum many times to his detractor's             I despair sometimes at the over reactions on this site by certain posters, some people need to get a sense of humour, and get off their high horse?   In My Considered Opinion, of course?  

[mozo]

6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

It's the grim side of mathematics and football. It looks like "only" 4 points. But the damned thing is that these other teams keep playing games and keep getting points as well.

How's this though. If we go at 3 points per game and get 21 from 7. Then it's on.