Liam Post Match

[Robbored]

47 minutes ago, spudski said:

Tinnion is doing what anyone would do in his position. He knows he's landed on his feet, by unjustified means. He's now working with JL by making their positions easier to manage. Sadly he's not intelligent enough to realise his liked status by the fans is becoming very diminished. 

He's on thin ice with the fan base.  He imo, is a good academy director and should be still in that position. 

Having him and JL in charge is a recipe for disaster imo.

Both are scared of strong dominant men, who have achieved more and will ruffle feathers. 

Both come across as cowards. 

LM looks like a rabbit in headlights blaming seasoned players for his poor ideas. 

Being led by people out of their depth. 

This has relegation battle all over it for next season. 

 

Wow! 

I can’t recall ever seeing such a damning post from you before Spudski.

I hope you’re wrong but something tells me that you’re not.

We all need to take notice.

[George Rs]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

To me it’s relatively simple - it’s easier be different in Lg1.  Opponents managers are less savvy, opponents are less savvy, more ill-disciplined, eg they press poorly (compared to championship teams), etc.

Oxford have generally been a top(ish) Lg1 team for a good few years, they were a good foundation to build on generally.

True, that’s why I hope he can do something similar here in the summer with relatively good foundations that just lack that spark. 
 

But is the gap that big, I admit I don’t watch league one football unless it’s the playoffs but I would struggle to believe there is a gap of that size? But maybe I’m wrong. 
 

And don’t a better calibre of players make up for that gap? 

[DaveInSA]

54 minutes ago, spudski said:

Tinnion is doing what anyone would do in his position. He knows he's landed on his feet, by unjustified means. He's now working with JL by making their positions easier to manage. Sadly he's not intelligent enough to realise his liked status by the fans is becoming very diminished. 

He's on thin ice with the fan base.  He imo, is a good academy director and should be still in that position. 

Having him and JL in charge is a recipe for disaster imo.

Both are scared of strong dominant men, who have achieved more and will ruffle feathers. 

Both come across as cowards. 

LM looks like a rabbit in headlights blaming seasoned players for his poor ideas. 

Being led by people out of their depth. 

This has relegation battle all over it for next season. 

 

The bold bit. Said that a couple of weeks ago.

I’ve seen it before here.

I was genuinely thinking we were heading in the right direction with Gould and Pearson and the back room team.

Replace that quality with Tinnion and Manning - 2 under qualified and inexperienced guys.

Massively risky.

It could have paid off. It isn’t. And in my view it won’t.

Relegation battle if we’re lucky, we could be dead in the water by Xmas.

[cellist]

28 minutes ago, BUTOR said:

He seems like a serial over thinker. I never hear stories of managers studying tape until 3 in the morning and think it bodes particularly well. Perhaps we were lacking complexity at times under Pearson but each and every player knew their roles and they would stay mostly consistent from game to game. The last month has been a borderline tombola of selections and ideas reminiscent of Johnson. Today was just bizarre. I don’t think you really tend to sneak into 6th or 5th with tactical wizardry, you are more likely to achieve a higher placed finish as a club with an average budget through a robustness and spirited togetherness. It’s old ground, but throwing that in the bin is going to continue to haunt this club. We were nearly there.

A hope is that he realised a while ago play offs were never on the cards this season and is trying to work out the foundation he will build on from next season tactically. He’s certainly capable of getting it right and winning a game with his tweaks, unfortunately at the moment it feels like he isn’t going to be able to find and settle on a formula.

Some managers aren’t capable of it, but it feels like there’s just no need for the chopping and changing and barrage of ever evolving ideas in the Championship. We were so concerned about them today, a side who have been struggling at the bottom all season, there was no need for it. I doubt the many sides that have taken points at Hillsborough this season have done so by trying so hard to stifle them? More likely playing to their strengths and just backing themselves against a weak opposition. 

Run out of reactions but I think this is very well said. As for the bit in bold - it does seem we have a leadership team that are easily taken in by that sort of thing doesn't it? Overthinking, overcoaching, it's very reminiscent of LJ whose best run it needs to be remembered coincided with a bit of an injury crisis that limited his options, and the spine of a team with exactly that robustness and spirited togetherness you mentioned - built (not entirely) by his predecessor. 

I share your frustration and feeling that we were, in some senses, nearly there. Nearly on to something. Baffles me how we seem to have passed it up to make the same sort of mistake we've made previously.

[Street red]

37 minutes ago, One Team said:

This is a Nige quote that isn’t quoted enough. We know enough of Nige to know exactly what he meant by this. 

It's a great quote in one saying it says everything about the club from top to bottom.

[Red from afar]

I've worked with companies where it's a family business, sycophants worming their way to the top position. Whenever anyone of experience and presence came in, the stooge would always be in the owners ear telling them they don't know what they're doing. 

Then they'd remove them and hire someone who would do the work in the way they wanted and wouldn't answer back. Funnily enough they would then blame them as well when things inevitably started to get worse.

[Nugget]

Just watched the interview, looks like a rabbit in the headlights, really want him to succeed given he’s here now & can’t change the past, but not easy viewing 

[wendyredredrobin]

18 minutes ago, Red from afar said:

I've worked with companies where it's a family business, sycophants worming their way to the top position. Whenever anyone of experience and presence came in, the stooge would always be in the owners ear telling them they don't know what they're doing. 

Then they'd remove them and hire someone who would do the work in the way they wanted and wouldn't answer back. Funnily enough they would then blame them as well when things inevitably started to get worse.

Did you work for Hargreaves Lansdown?

[Robbored]

With every new manager I always give them time to have some kind of impact and Manning is no exception. - However  I’m getting more frustrated with him bleating on about the relentless nature of the Championship and no time to work ‘on the grass’ and now particularly in the last two defeats having no idea how to change things when his game plan gets compromised and to cap it off today deflected the defeat away from himself onto the players.

That said………….this season is pretty much over and Manning will have the summer window to offload and strengthen the squad. He’ll then have the entire preseason ‘on the grass’ to work on implementing his methods ready for next season - he won’t have any excuses should things not go to plan.

Because of that I’m prepared to get behind him and review how we’re doing around 10-12 games in.

Edited February 24 by Robbored

[Engvall’s Splinter]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That said………….this season is pretty much over and Manning will have the summer window to offload and strengthen the squad. He’ll then have the entire preseason ‘on the grass’ to work on implementing his methods ready for next season - he won’t have any excuses should things not go to plan.

Because of that I’m prepared to get behind him and review how we’re doing around 10-12 games in.

My concern with this is we allow him to sign a deluge of players (as per his previous history) and after 10-12 games when it hasn’t worked, we are left with a raft of players on 3 year deals who the next manager doesn’t see fit. Rinse, repeat and so on… 

[Dr Balls]

1 hour ago, George Rs said:

True, that’s why I hope he can do something similar here in the summer with relatively good foundations that just lack that spark. 
 

But is the gap that big, I admit I don’t watch league one football unless it’s the playoffs but I would struggle to believe there is a gap of that size? But maybe I’m wrong. 
 

And don’t a better calibre of players make up for that gap? 

The gap between the Championship and League 1 isn’t quite the same as that between the Premier League and the Championship but it’s still considerable. Most promoted clubs struggle in the Championship. Ipswich are the most recent exception but they have an extremely experienced base to their team, most of whom have played at this level in the past.

As for the difference in managers and coaches, again there are quite a few with experience of the Premier League. In fact we just got rid of one of them to be replaced by a relative novice.

So it’s a double whammy for Manning. He’s up against better and more experienced coaches, playing teams with better and more expensive players. Fishes and ponds come to mind with Manning in the role of the minnow now in with the koi carp!

[REDOXO]

9 minutes ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

My concern with this is we allow him to sign a deluge of players (as per his previous history) and after 10-12 games when it hasn’t worked, we are left with a raft of players on 3 year deals who the next manager doesn’t see fit. Rinse, repeat and so on… 

EXACTLY! I can not agree more! It just reeks of LJ/McIness/Holden etc. We take a bloke with no track record of anything and hand him the keys to the kingdom. We then have to rely on Cotterill and Pearson to get us out of it....AND THEN we don't back them, make out its all  their fault, before firing them and then bringing in someone else who hasnt got a bloody clue, but fits into some fantasy regarding young up and coming coach!...But wait worse is to come. The new guy will spend waste the money the club has 'nest egged away" and some Lansdown or other will say my money my choice until we are staring at relegation and/or an FFP violation! Rinse and Repeat!

NINE points off relegation god knows how many from the play offs and some utter nause tells us we still have a chance of the play offs PLAYING LIKE THAT! I'm getting angrier by the second! NOW BREATHE 

[REDOXO]

3 minutes ago, Gaseater said:

I think he is now at the point where the current squad are struggling to implement what he wants - he needs to be backed with players who can.

Laughable

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Gaseater said:

We did back Cotterill heavily. 

THEY didn't they argued about it for months.

Lansdown didn't want to bring in the players Coterill wanted for the reasons many know about and they fell out...

[Ashton Fete]

“We can give you all the information but if you don’t do the basics well enough”

”Asking the players, are you able to learn, do you want to learn”

That’s two games in a row he’s had to make formation changes/substitutions because the gameplan was wrong so yes that’s part players but it’s also tactics, assessment of which players to pick and so on.

Stop putting it all on the players and start doing some learning yourself or at least admit when you’ve got things wrong. 

 

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Gaseater said:

Signed a stack of players for league 1 title win, then tried to sign a stack of players who were well out of our reach….gayle gray etc. remember it well.

Good! He signed a stack of players to get us promoted from League One a place we ended up due to....?

[Dr Balls]

9 minutes ago, Gaseater said:

I think he is now at the point where the current squad are struggling to implement what he wants - he needs to be backed with players who can.

No! If he is anything like the coach he is supposed to be, Manning either needs to amend his tactics to suit the players he has or actually improve the players through coaching. Allowing him to bring in his players e.g. Twine on large fees with large wages is just going to get the club into another financial mess.

[REDOXO]

Just now, Gaseater said:

Mciness shambles.

Rinse Repeat

[petehinton]

32 minutes ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

My concern with this is we allow him to sign a deluge of players (as per his previous history) and after 10-12 games when it hasn’t worked, we are left with a raft of players on 3 year deals who the next manager doesn’t see fit. Rinse, repeat and so on… 

Have said before, but I personally really don’t see us doing much at all in the summer that will impact the ‘first 11’, except for Medube or Twine being made perm (if not then a 10 signing), and a striker or two dependant on what happens to Conway. 

[Sir Geoff]

17 minutes ago, Gaseater said:

I think he is now at the point where the current squad are struggling to implement what he wants - he needs to be backed with players who can.

Brilliant ! Lets change the whole squad. That will be easy.

Or

Why not just change the muppet that is failing to get the best out of the current squad.

[BCFC31]

In mannings defence here this squad has never been able to do the basics properly even under nige holden Johnson etc we are constantly the masters of our own downfall.with poor touches poor 3 or 4 yard passing no basic give and go, turning back not being brave enough on the ball etc but that is exactly what you get with bang average to below average players! This will only ever change once better quality is brough in.  But then you have to spend decent money! ( Lansdown ) and improve the recruitment. these players I feel would be alot more coachable and will be alot more receptive and execution wise  under Manning style head coach and the way manning wants us to play we don't have the type of players imo also where the hell was twine ? He was in the bench last week and not this week has he had a set back ? No Naismith eaither ridiculous 

 

 

Edited February 24 by BCFC31

[Dr Balls]

1 minute ago, Gaseater said:

Depends on the numbers doesn’t it - we won’t go down that route of spend spend spend.

So either we let Manning spend a load to bring in more expensive players to play his way but hopefully better and  maybe more successfully or he doesn’t get to spend much and we find that he’s actually not very good at getting the best out of what he has got.

The point is the best coaches and managers get more out of their teams than you might expect from just looking at the names on the team sheet. Do we see any sign of that from Manning so far? No, just the occasional flash of the players doing what they did best under the previous manager, almost irrespective of any game plan from the current head coach.

[BCFC31]

4 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

So either we let Manning spend a load to bring in more expensive players to play his way but hopefully better and  maybe more successfully or he doesn’t get to spend much and we find that he’s actually not very good at getting the best out of what he has got.

The point is the best coaches and managers get more out of their teams than you might expect from just looking at the names on the team sheet. Do we see any sign of that from Manning so far? No, just the occasional flash of the players doing what they did best under the previous manager, almost irrespective of any game plan from the current head coach.

As annoying as it is that's only the same luxury those before him were afforded.

Edited February 24 by BCFC31

[MarcusX]

3 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

He did at half time, took off 2 players who were either not fit or not interested, although should have taken them off before then.

I don’t think either of them were ready, and McCrorie looks like he’s struggling a bit too.

I know we’re saying he’s got players coming back to fitness but there’s a risk they get rushed back through desperation.

[lenred]

19 minutes ago, Ashton Fete said:

Stop putting it all on the players and start doing some learning yourself or at least admit when you’ve got things wrong. 

This is the big worry for me atm.  Take some responsibility.  All the best managers do.  All the shit ones don’t.   That’s not just football, that’s all areas of life.   

[Mendip City]

2 hours ago, weepywall said:

I don't think he's up to the job but I actually feel a bit sorry for him...we came calling and he wasn't going to turn us down was he ? Way out of his depth and very inexperienced...such a bizarre appointment.

He’s a fully grown adult. He could have chosen to stay at Oxford and continue to learn. He chose to dump on Oxford and take the fast tack, I’d predict, to an LJ managerial trajectory. 

[Graham76]

Just now, lenred said:

This is the big worry for me atm.  Take some responsibility.  All the best managers do.  All the shit ones don’t.   That’s not just football, that’s all areas of life.   

Mourinho was good at deflecting criticism from the players. He would cause some kind of controversy just to deflect. Manning on the other hand just threw them all under the bus because they couldn’t download his data

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I don’t think either of them were ready, and McCrorie looks like he’s struggling a bit too.

I know we’re saying he’s got players coming back to fitness but there’s a risk they get rushed back through desperation.

Firstly, McCrorie is hitting that “return from injury” brick-wall.  You get through some games on adrenaline but they catch up with you.  He’s just having his little “downer” whilst he settles back into regular first team football.  Nothing unusual there.

Today did feel a bit like “after last week I need a result, I’m gonna rush players back”.

[Dr Balls]

Just now, Gaseater said:

“What they did best under the previous manager” - a cracking line that is pure bollocks. 

The tactics from the previous regime were to play on the break and be quick in transition.

Our last 3 wins in the League (Watford, Middlesbrough and Southampton) all have the same common thread through them that we were playing opponents who had the majority of possession, while most of our goals in those games came from quick play/breaks.

And the common thread through our last 10 league games when we have had the majority of possession is that we don’t win, and we frequently lose. But Manning wants the team to play possession-based football, irrespective of whether or not it’s successful with this group of players.

There is of course a phrase about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result…

[Ashtongreight]

3 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I don’t think either of them were ready, and McCrorie looks like he’s struggling a bit too.

I know we’re saying he’s got players coming back to fitness but there’s a risk they get rushed back through desperation.

Agree, they weren’t fit, especially Pring, no way he should have started, both goals wouldn’t have happened if he was fit. Not blaming Pring, that’s  down to Manning, he shouldn’t have picked him, it’s no good blaming the players.