Andy King - caretaker?

[Robbored]

27 minutes ago, Jacki said:

Here’s another thread that has blown my mind.

Do we really think that Tinnion and Lansdown are going to get rid of their new project, who was given a 3.5 year contract 3 months ago, and replace him even temporarily with someone who is that close to Pearson? It’s just not going to happen, in a million years.

People really are hysterical at the moment as well. I keep seeing comments like ‘he’s lost the dressing room’ and that the atmosphere is ‘toxic’…. I see no evidence on a match day of a toxic atmosphere whatsoever and I’m really not convinced about the players losing faith yet either. We’ve just had 2 unbelievably poor games. 

I'm far from convinced by Manning and I’m as fed up with the ‘higher ups’ at this club as anyone but none of them are going anywhere any time soon. 

Spot on.

As much as many of us would like to see Andy King as our manager it’s won’t happen - he’s too close to Nige for a start and Steve Lansdown in particular sticks with managers who experience a run of poor results. No way will Manning get sacked.

[Sleepy1968]

6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It wasn't just the losing run under LJ, excluding Cup games I'll try and do it from memory..without checking. Late October to earlyish March 2017. Correct scores, Idk. Results? Sure.

Barnsley (A) D

Brighton (H) L

Birmingham (A) L

Reading (A) L

Ipswich (H) W

Huddersfield (A) L

Brentford (H) L

Preston (H) L

Wolves (A) L

Ipswich (A) L

Reading (H) L

Cardiff (H) L

Nottingham Forest (A) L

Sheffield Wednesday (H) D

Rotherham (H) W

Derby (A) D

Fulham (H) L

Leeds (A) L

Aston Villa (A) L

Burton Albion (H) D

,Norwich (H) D

Not saying they were all terrible performances but 2 in 21??

11 losses in 12.

1 win in 16..how the hell do you survive that?

Put another way one win 1 in 4 months.

Nowadays that sort of run results in at least two sackings

[Phileas Fogg]

What a bizarre thread 

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It wasn't just the losing run under LJ, excluding Cup games I'll try and do it from memory..without checking. Late October to earlyish March 2017. Correct scores, Idk. Results? Sure.

Barnsley (A) D

Brighton (H) L

Birmingham (A) L

Reading (A) L

Ipswich (H) W

Huddersfield (A) L

Brentford (H) L

Preston (H) L

Wolves (A) L

Ipswich (A) L

Reading (H) L

Cardiff (H) L

Nottingham Forest (A) L

Sheffield Wednesday (H) D

Rotherham (H) W

Derby (A) D

Fulham (H) L

Leeds (A) L

Aston Villa (A) L

Burton Albion (H) D

,Norwich (H) D

Not saying they were all terrible performances but 2 in 21??

11 losses in 12.

1 win in 16..how the hell do you survive that?

Put another way one win 1 in 4 months.

That is great recall Mr P.  Very impressed.

1 hour ago, Jacki said:

Here’s another thread that has blown my mind.

Do we really think that Tinnion and Lansdown are going to get rid of their new project, who was given a 3.5 year contract 3 months ago, and replace him even temporarily with someone who is that close to Pearson? It’s just not going to happen, in a million years.

People really are hysterical at the moment as well. I keep seeing comments like ‘he’s lost the dressing room’ and that the atmosphere is ‘toxic’…. I see no evidence on a match day of a toxic atmosphere whatsoever and I’m really not convinced about the players losing faith yet either. We’ve just had 2 unbelievably poor games. 

I'm far from convinced by Manning and I’m as fed up with the ‘higher ups’ at this club as anyone but none of them are going anywhere any time soon. 

Agree Jacki.  Need to calm down a bit.  It’s one game (two games) after two better ones.  Some balance needs to be found.

[Open End Numb Legs]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

What a bizarre thread 

Indeed. I bumped into a L1/L2 manager several times a few years ago. No names! We had a good chat one day, I explained my background and we got to discuss how he felt about supporters. He was scathing about forums! Not supporters who have committed huge time and money into their club, just the way the anonymous supporter can over react to a win or a loss in a polarised way, calling for instant changes like a computer game. Also not understanding the realities of the professional game and the impact that criticisms can have on players or coaches (and their families) away from the pitch.

I am not trying to take the moral high ground here, I can be the same, but his words did make a mark and I try to be reasonable and not over react.

I would never say 'that shouldn't be posted', forums are here for that reason and players/coaches would be well advised not to read them, but when you hear someone in that role saying he was steering his children away from football as a career it does make you think.

Is this manager just not suited to that role? I don't think so. At the time his team was in the top 6 of their division and life was pretty good but he had seen how fickle supporters can be.

In my opinion, criticism of game time, instantaneous actions of players, coaches and refs can be unfair whereas slow time decisions of boards or a DoF made around a meeting room is more fair game.

[Phileas Fogg]

18 minutes ago, Open End Numb Legs said:

Indeed. I bumped into a L1/L2 manager several times a few years ago. No names! We had a good chat one day, I explained my background and we got to discuss how he felt about supporters. He was scathing about forums! Not supporters who have committed huge time and money into their club, just the way the anonymous supporter can over react to a win or a loss in a polarised way, calling for instant changes like a computer game. Also not understanding the realities of the professional game and the impact that criticisms can have on players or coaches (and their families) away from the pitch.

I am not trying to take the moral high ground here, I can be the same, but his words did make a mark and I try to be reasonable and not over react.

I would never say 'that shouldn't be posted', forums are here for that reason and players/coaches would be well advised not to read them, but when you hear someone in that role saying he was steering his children away from football as a career it does make you think.

Is this manager just not suited to that role? I don't think so. At the time his team was in the top 6 of their division and life was pretty good but he had seen how fickle supporters can be.

In my opinion, criticism of game time, instantaneous actions of players, coaches and refs can be unfair whereas slow time decisions of boards or a DoF made around a meeting room is more fair game.

It’s just a bit odd all round. It is understandable that people have concerns about Manning - and one of them is a lack of experience. Then in this thread you have people backing the idea of appointing a manager with even less experience? 

I imagine it’s seen as a way to continue Pearson’s legacy - but since when has it been a binary choice between a Pearson model or a Manning model? Seems very reductive.

Why stop at King? If the prerequisite is being a former Pearson favourite with 0 managerial experience why not approach Wes Morgan or Robert Huth?

If the prerequisite is to be a fan - what about Louis Carey or Scott Murray?

Just a bit of a strange lurch which seems very reactionary.

[Sheltons Army]

5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It’s just a bit odd all round. It is understandable that people have concerns about Manning - and one of them is a lack of experience. Then in this thread you have people backing the idea of appointing a manager with even less experience? 

I imagine it’s seen as a way to continue Pearson’s legacy - but since when has it been a binary choice between a Pearson model or a Manning model? Seems very reductive.

Why stop at King? If the prerequisite is being a former Pearson favourite with 0 managerial experience why not approach Wes Morgan or Robert Huth?

If the prerequisite is to be a fan - what about Louis Carey or Scott Murray?

Just a bit of a strange lurch which seems very reactionary.

What does lack of experience mean PF ?

Widely used term but it’s actually much more about what sort of experience , what quality and relevance of experience 

On the theoretical debate I’d suggest Andy King merely has slightly different ‘experience’ to LM and maybe a slightly different help with the numerous skill sets required to be a successful HC / Manager

This isn’t aimed at LM , AK or anyone else but a wealth of experience , crap ,or irrelevant experience , is of little use , particularly if you are somebody who doesn’t learn from it , whoever you are.

There are so many different skill sets required to be a good successful HC / Manager, some have lots of experience of coaching but can’t control a dressing room , some can’t or don’t coach but can get responses from players etc 

I guess it all depends on your priorities when appointing

fwiw , personally I like Leaders , with a bit of ‘charisma’ (The right arm of Klopp will do !)

I always thought hearing both Gary Johnson and Cotts speak at some events etc , there was something about them dragging you onboard , and you would think ‘yep I’d like to play for you’ 

That of course can’t be your only asset , but would be definite wants for me , because groups of footballers need to buy in and engage with the Head if you want success

 

 

[Davefevs]

@Sheltons Army I’ve watched a couple of Cotts recent pre-match interviews.  He’s got that twinkle back, that bit of mischievousness back in his answers to the questions.  The worm is beginning to turn in Nailsworth.  Will still be a tough job to keep them up, but he’s at least given them hope.

[Sheltons Army]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@Sheltons Army I’ve watched a couple of Cotts recent pre-match interviews.  He’s got that twinkle back, that bit of mischievousness back in his answers to the questions.  The worm is beginning to turn in Nailsworth.  Will still be a tough job to keep them up, but he’s at least given them hope.

Good, would be a good story and quite apt , back home or near to , after all his health fights

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Need to calm down a bit.  It’s one game (two games) after two better ones.  Some balance needs to be found.

See Dave- I'll quote stuff you get bang on right  (imo) as well as stuff you don't(imo) . It's definitely about balance  which otib has lost atm. 

The OP ( @old_eastender) started a thread a couple of weeks back about our possible relegation. Now it's one about sacking the new manager and appointing a player.

Providing one doesn't take it too seriously- it's great fun reading and endlessly entertaining.

 

[Davefevs]

TY

[cotswoldred2]

17 hours ago, old_eastender said:

If the very unlikely event the club are forced to admit the appointment of Manning has turned out bad, reckon making Andy King caretaker to the end of the season, and see how he does, would be a sensible option...

What are talking about? Gone early again and it's not even matchday. Just what do you suppose replacing Manning with Andy King will do to the clubs momentum?

Starting a thread like this is weird but to have 10 likes currently is just bizarre.

Clueless.

[FNQ]

6 minutes ago, cotswoldred2 said:

What are talking about? Gone early again and it's not even matchday. Just what do you suppose replacing Manning with Andy King will do to the clubs momentum?

Starting a thread like this is weird but to have 10 likes currently is just bizarre.

Clueless.

What momentum is that then?

[cotswoldred2]

5 minutes ago, FNQ said:

What momentum is that then?

Onwards and upwards? 

Unlike the doom mongers on here that want to take a wrecking ball to the club, and to think we laugh at the Gash when JB was at the helm.

Talk about fickle.

[the1stknowle]

16 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Did you read the op. 'Caretaker till the end of the season.'

No harm in that.

If there is no harm in it, what's the harm in sticking with Manning?

[FNQ]

Just now, cotswoldred2 said:

Onwards and upwards? 

Unlike the doom mongers on here that want to take a wrecking ball to the club, and to think we laugh at the Gash when JB was at the helm.

Talk about fickle.

Mate, we ain’t going upwards. The conversations have turned from top 6 to bottom 6.. At this rate, in the next year or two the gas wont be coming for us, we’ll be coming for them.

[ChippenhamRed]

3 minutes ago, FNQ said:

Mate, we ain’t going upwards. The conversations have turned from top 6 to bottom 6.. At this rate, in the next year or two the gas wont be coming for us, we’ll be coming for them.

The conversation has turned in 8 days and 2 results. People are obsessed with the last 10 games but it's also 2 wins in 4. We are a mid table club doing mid table things, we're 12th in the Championship and people need to get a grip. What the hell would be the point of getting rid of a manager whose overall record after just 23 games is about par for the squad (and very similar to Pearson), if all the other fundamentals at the club remain unchanged?

[ChippenhamRed]

Ripped from another thread because it's also applicable here: -

Pearson at City:

P131 W42 D32 L57 (32% win%)

Manning at City:

P23 W7 D7 L8 (30% win%)

Mitigation for Pearson:

- Inherited a mess, Covid, financial restrictions, player sales, substantial injuries

Mitigation for Manning:

- Not his squad yet, no summer, lack of time, change of playing style

So, overall, very similar records for both managers and mitigating circumstances in both cases. It looks to me like two managers getting roughly the same from the squad - mixed, mid table results with a mid table squad.

This is not a defence of the sacking of Pearson nor is it particularly a defence of Manning. But it doesn’t suggest Manning is the total disaster some seem keen to make him out to be, when his record compares very closely with Pearson who is widely regarded to have done a good job.

Once again the recency bias of two poor results seems to be preventing the forum from making a more objective analysis. Eight days ago we were speculating about a play off push. And even now we are in the top half. We also shouldn’t let the “top six” comment from the board distract from the reality. Manning has been stitched up by that comment, but that’s not his fault.

I can’t see the point of making a change and expecting much better from anyone else when all the other fundamentals at the club remain unchanged. Especially when we are in the relative safety of 12th position.

 

[Mark barton]

18 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

Yes, it could.  A player revolt led by the likes of James, Wells, Kimg etc could see end of Manning.

if we fail to win in next 3 games, change will happen

None of those 3 will be here next season so that would not carry any weight 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Mark barton said:

None of those 3 will be here next season so that would not carry any weight 

Who is buying Wells then?

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

The conversation has turned in 8 days and 2 results. People are obsessed with the last 10 games but it's also 2 wins in 4. We are a mid table club doing mid table things, we're 12th in the Championship and people need to get a grip. What the hell would be the point of getting rid of a manager whose overall record after just 23 games is about par for the squad (and very similar to Pearson), if all the other fundamentals at the club remain unchanged?

1.2857 PPG under NP.

1.21 PPG under Manning.

Give or take.

35.71%

31.57%

Again give or take.

Position inherited was 1.4 and 40%  plus a relatively improving injury picture.

Edited February 26 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mark barton]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Who is buying Wells then?

Well although reported he has signed a 2 year deal we never really know the contents of that contract. Year 2 could be based on appearances or triggered by player or club. 

Personally we need better than the current Wells otherwise next year will also be a struggle.

 

Do you think wells will be here next year. If he suddenly offered a 2 year deal elsewhere hopefully he will take it

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, Mark barton said:

Well although reported he has signed a 2 year deal we never really know the contents of that contract. Year 2 could be based on appearances or triggered by player or club. 

Personally we need better than the current Wells otherwise next year will also be a struggle.

 

Do you think wells will be here next year. If he suddenly offered a 2 year deal elsewhere hopefully he will take it

FWIW I think if it had been 1 yr + 1 yr option it wouldn’t been announced as that.  Nor had Tinnion mentioned Wells in the group of players OOC.  I’d say it’s fair to say Nahki is contracted until summer 2025.

[Bazooka Joe]

5 hours ago, cotswoldred2 said:

Onwards and upwards? 

Unlike the doom mongers on here that want to take a wrecking ball to the club, and to think we laugh at the Gash when JB was at the helm.

Talk about fickle.

Perhaps those who want change believe that Manning knows fickle.

[REDOXO]

A game nearer! 
 

This team so obviously aren’t doing it for Mr Manning.

It just strikes me that Manning just doesn’t have the presence that a senior manager has to have. He’s achieved nothing at any level above league one and barely did anything there.
 

To me He looks on the verge of tears at after match interviews always ready to blame players that were decent until he was brought in!

I think Mr Manning is a heavy defeat away at Ipswich away from the exit door no matter what some think SL will not see this club in a relegation battle without telling junior to make the change!

 

 

Edited March 2 by REDOXO