Liam Pre Cardiff

[Alessandro]

This interview is absolutely mental.

I’ve given the board a lot of stick recently and talk a lot about same mistakes being made over and over, well here we go again - right now, this is why.

New manager brought in to improve and maximise already existing squad basically admits he can’t. 

Absolutely mental - so what’s the way forward?

Last managers two years of building this squad will be ripped up to start again bringing in new players to fit a whole new system under a manager who is ultimately, a massive gamble - even if he gets ‘his players’ can he make a success of it for us at this level? Jury is out, I bloody hope he can, or that will be at least 2 more seasons wasted. 

Or admit the, misjudgement, and sack the new man - well they’re not going to do that.

Mental but so unsurprising and so Bristol City. 

Buckle up for another rebuild…

Edited March 1 by Alessandro

[bearded_red]

I respect each and every one of you that put yourselves through twenty three minutes of listening to Liam Manning speak.

[Silvio Dante]

3 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

This interview is absolutely mental.

I’ve given the board a lot of stick recently and talk a lot about same mistakes being made over and over, well here we go again - right now, this is why.

New manager brought in to improve and maximise already existing squad basically admits he can’t. 

Absolutely mental - so what’s the way forward?

Last managers two years of building this squad will be ripped up to start again bringing in new players to fit a whole new system under a manager who is ultimately, a massive gamble - even if he gets ‘his players’ can he make a success of it for us at this level? Jury is out, I bloody hope he can, or that will be at least 2 more seasons wasted. 

Or admit the, misjudgement, and sack the new man - well they’re not going to do that.

Mental but so unsurprising and so Bristol City. 

Buckle up for another rebuild…

I think I posted pretty early in his reign that we hadn’t done due diligence on Liam, nor he on us. Everything that’s transpired since confirms that appears to be the case. We saw young progressive head coach who plays youth on the tin - but it was mislabelled.

Essentially he can play one way. He needs his players to do so. Even then it appears he struggles when other managers counter him.

That interview yesterday, even if you ignore the “1 in 20” was very red flag territory. Even if he adapts the rest of the season to the squad, he’s going to want to go to his way in the summer - and we don’t have the funds for a total rebuild - so we’ll have wasted the next 12 and be back where we are.

It’s a total mess. We have a coach who doesn’t fit the squad who has got the job based on a two month run of form with a squad set up differently. We have severe doubts over whether he can make it work long term, and he appears naive in game.

The question is this: If you accept he can’t get it out of this squad, and needs his players, are you prepared to give him the 2-3 years and significant funds he needs to fully reshape the squad (with no guarantee he’ll get it right)? Or is it cheaper, and better, to admit you got it wrong and bomb him out?

[Street red]

6 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

I respect each and every one of you that put yourselves through twenty three minutes of listening to Liam Manning speak.

23 minutes you will never get back

[Silvio Dante]

9 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

I respect each and every one of you that put yourselves through twenty three minutes of listening to Liam Manning speak.

You say that - I had to listen to it twice so I could scribe the 1 in 20 quote and confirm the context!

[One Team]

5 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think I posted pretty early in his reign that we hadn’t done due diligence on Liam, nor he on us. Everything that’s transpired since confirms that appears to be the case. We saw young progressive head coach who plays youth on the tin - but it was mislabelled.

Essentially he can play one way. He needs his players to do so. Even then it appears he struggles when other managers counter him.

That interview yesterday, even if you ignore the “1 in 20” was very red flag territory. Even if he adapts the rest of the season to the squad, he’s going to want to go to his way in the summer - and we don’t have the funds for a total rebuild - so we’ll have wasted the next 12 and be back where we are.

It’s a total mess. We have a coach who doesn’t fit the squad who has got the job based on a two month run of form with a squad set up differently. We have severe doubts over whether he can make it work long term, and he appears naive in game.

The question is this: If you accept he can’t get it out of this squad, and needs his players, are you prepared to give him the 2-3 years and significant funds he needs to fully reshape the squad (with no guarantee he’ll get it right)? Or is it cheaper, and better, to admit you got it wrong and bomb him out?

Great post! 

[Fuber]

12 hours ago, cellist said:

He doesn't come across as easy to warm to, and that is exacerbated by the last two results/performances. If he was winning games I dare say we would be warming to him - we'd be saying how ruthless and focussed he was, confident in his own ability, measured, detail orientated, tactically astute, young and up and coming etc. Some would see through it, but football fans will be taken in by pretty much anything as long as the team is winning. But when the chips are down, all the sound bites come across really badly.

To those who say he reads the forum - clearly not enough or he'd have dropped the word "behaviours" from his vocabulary by now!

Not sure about that. Didn't work for LJ. For me at least. 

Bullsh** is Bullsh**.

[Sir Geoff]

28 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

This interview is absolutely mental.

I’ve given the board a lot of stick recently and talk a lot about same mistakes being made over and over, well here we go again - right now, this is why.

New manager brought in to improve and maximise already existing squad basically admits he can’t. 

Absolutely mental - so what’s the way forward?

Last managers two years of building this squad will be ripped up to start again bringing in new players to fit a whole new system under a manager who is ultimately, a massive gamble - even if he gets ‘his players’ can he make a success of it for us at this level? Jury is out, I bloody hope he can, or that will be at least 2 more seasons wasted. 

Or admit the, misjudgement, and sack the new man - well they’re not going to do that.

Mental but so unsurprising and so Bristol City. 

Buckle up for another rebuild…

Which is why many season ticket holders, me included, are erring against renewing, as next season will be another write off when he gets sacked in November.

[Silvio Dante]

1 minute ago, Sir Geoff said:

Which is why many season ticket holders, me included, are erring against renewing, as next season will be another write off when he gets sacked in November.

Even Ian Gay said give him until October. Don’t know if it was his own opinion or the inside track from Tinnion, but that interview makes me think the endgame is closer than many suspect - he clearly is under pressure from somewhere, whether that’s internal or from reading the forum etc and reacting who knows.

Re STs I will be renewing come what may. Yes, I’m a lemming. But it was my club before it was Lansdowns, before it was Tinnions, before it was Mannings and it’ll be my club when they’re long gone. 

[Sir Geoff]

3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Even Ian Gay said give him until October. Don’t know if it was his own opinion or the inside track from Tinnion, but that interview makes me think the endgame is closer than many suspect - he clearly is under pressure from somewhere, whether that’s internal or from reading the forum etc and reacting who knows.

Re STs I will be renewing come what may. Yes, I’m a lemming. But it was my club before it was Lansdowns, before it was Tinnions, before it was Mannings and it’ll be my club when they’re long gone. 

Think Saturday will be very telling. Will he go in to job saving mode and pick a team and formation that will (almost) guarantee a performance or carry on like a headless chicken with his possession based bore fest.

[Major Isewater]

12 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

He did mention the biggest bit several times and it was a slightly different biggest bit every time so now I have no idea what the biggest bit is.

And that’s the biggest bit.

 

Edited March 1 by Major Isewater

[W-S-M Seagull]

20 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

The question is this: If you accept he can’t get it out of this squad, and needs his players, are you prepared to give him the 2-3 years and significant funds he needs to fully reshape the squad (with no guarantee he’ll get it right)? Or is it cheaper, and better, to admit you got it wrong and bomb him out?

Gotta go for me based on that. 

This is a big summer. We can't afford to get it wrong. Giving him significant funds is extremely high risk. 

I don't think we've seen anything which would suggest that even with significant funds, he'll push us forward. 

If we gave him significant funds to buy players for his style which isn't the style we wanted then when he goes we'll then have the problem of not having the right players for the style that we want to play. 

I think if we continue with him we won't see any real material difference. We will still continue with the LJ type streaks and we won't progress. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

7 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Even Ian Gay said give him until October. Don’t know if it was his own opinion or the inside track from Tinnion, but that interview makes me think the endgame is closer than many suspect - he clearly is under pressure from somewhere, whether that’s internal or from reading the forum etc and reacting who knows.

Re STs I will be renewing come what may. Yes, I’m a lemming. But it was my club before it was Lansdowns, before it was Tinnions, before it was Mannings and it’ll be my club when they’re long gone. 

Normally I would agree about giving time. But it's just the thought of giving him a whole summer and him reshaping the squad which really bothers me. 

[Major Isewater]

2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Normally I would agree about giving time. But it's just the thought of giving him a whole summer and him reshaping the squad which really bothers me. 

Not really a Manning fan are you WSM? 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

Just now, Major Isewater said:

Not really a Manning fan are you WSM? 

 

Nah mate, I'm a Bristol City fan. 

[ExiledAjax]

42 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

The question is this: If you accept he can’t get it out of this squad, and needs his players, are you prepared to give him the 2-3 years and significant funds he needs to fully reshape the squad (with no guarantee he’ll get it right)? Or is it cheaper, and better, to admit you got it wrong and bomb him out?

Doesn't the answer partly depend on whether or not you think that the style that Manning wants to play is a style that will take us nearer to promotion than the one we currently are suited to?

If yes then it's worth keeping him and investing in his version of the "vision". Investing time and money and changing the club to suit him. 

If no. If you feel that actually the style which we were using early this season, or that would develop out of that more naturally, is more likely to bring success, then yes change the manager and coaches and work on that.

Edited March 1 by ExiledAjax

[W-S-M Seagull]

Reminds me of Michael Duff at Swansea, just not the right fit and because that fit wasn't right Swansea now paying for that. 

Ironically Manning has had the same amount of games as Duff this season and their records are almost identical.

[Sir Geoff]

I keep coming back the Oxford fans view, that it's like being managed by a robot.

[chinapig]

37 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

You say that - I had to listen to it twice so I could scribe the 1 in 20 quote and confirm the context!

Thank you for your service from a grateful nation.

[Northern Red]

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Reminds me of Michael Duff at Swansea, just not the right fit and because that fit wasn't right Swansea now paying for that. 

Ironically Manning has had the same amount of games as Duff this season and their records are almost identical.

Both of them would be a better fit at each other's club.

I'm convinced Swansea would have gone for Manning if he hadn't just come here when they got rid of Duff.

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Doesn't the answer partly depends on whether or not you think that the style that Manning wants to play is a style that will take us nearer to promotion than the one we currently are suited to?

If yes then it's worth keeping him and investing in his version of the "vision". Investing time and money and changing the club to suit him. 

If no. If you feel that actually the style which we were using early this season, or that would develop out of that more naturally, is more likely to bring success, then yes change the manager and coaches and work on that.

Yes, that’s also fair. Some of it will come down to personal view of style and how likely that is to be successful. And to be clear, if you think of it as more slow and patient possession (referencing here Fevs’ charts) then sides who play that way in Soton and Leicester are way on the rhs and in the top 4. The issue there, as ever, is that they also have the best players. And I suppose the follow on there is that if a majority of “new breed” coaches want to play a variation of that way, can you succeed playing such if you are a club who won’t have the best players?

[Redrascal2]

I rarely missed a Pearson interview, his knowledge and experience made them enjoyable, interesting and informative. And the way he would deal with stupid questions was always worth a watch. Sad to say I don't watch Manning's interviews at all now. Wishy, washy and meaninglessness from someone who  is not producing the goods on the pitch and has not got the experience or calibre of Pearson. Goodness knows where this will end.

[Silvio Dante]

3 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Both of them would be a better fit at each other's club.

I'm convinced Swansea would have gone for Manning if he hadn't just come here when they got rid of Duff.

No doubt in my mind. In a lot of ways, I bet Liam is kicking himself that he jumped from Oxford on the first bus as opposed to waiting as he is a naturally better fit there and I, as you, think he would have been given the job.

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, Silvio Dante said:

Yes, that’s also fair. Some of it will come down to personal view of style and how likely that is to be successful. And to be clear, if you think of it as more slow and patient possession (referencing here Fevs’ charts) then sides who play that way in Soton and Leicester are way on the rhs and in the top 4. The issue there, as ever, is that they also have the best players. And I suppose the follow on there is that if a majority of “new breed” coaches want to play a variation of that way, can you succeed playing such if you are a club who won’t have the best players?

I suspect that success to the extent of Leicester/Southampton is beyond our reach. That is, we're not going to go unbeaten for 25 games or get north of 100 points in the Championship because we will, as you say, always be fielding players who are at least one level below that of Winks, Armstrong, Vestergaard etc al.

But can we finish 6th? 

That's the question that out club has to answer each season imo. Can we finish 6th?

If the thought is that taking the base laid by the previous regime, and allowing Manning to sculpt the next iteration of the team, ultimately increases our chance of answering that question with a "yes". Then do it.

[W-S-M Seagull]

8 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Both of them would be a better fit at each other's club.

I'm convinced Swansea would have gone for Manning if he hadn't just come here when they got rid of Duff.

Totally agree.

I do wonder if maybe we got wind of the fact Swansea were going to get rid of Duff and that they'd be interested in Manning? Would explain a lot. 

 

[One Team]

33 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Even Ian Gay said give him until October. Don’t know if it was his own opinion or the inside track from Tinnion, but that interview makes me think the endgame is closer than many suspect - he clearly is under pressure from somewhere, whether that’s internal or from reading the forum etc and reacting who knows.

Re STs I will be renewing come what may. Yes, I’m a lemming. But it was my club before it was Lansdowns, before it was Tinnions, before it was Mannings and it’ll be my club when they’re long gone. 

According to Lansdown it’s his club! 

Seriously though completely agree with you. We will be here long after those muppets have gone.

[Silvio Dante]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

I suspect that success to the extent of Leicester/Southampton is beyond our reach. That is, we're not going to go unbeaten for 25 games or get north of 100 points in the Championship because we will, as you say, always be fielding players who are at least one level below that of Winks, Armstrong, Vestergaard etc al.

But can we finish 6th? 

That's the question that out club has to answer each season imo. Can we finish 6th?

If the thought is that taking the base laid by the previous regime, and allowing Manning to sculpt the next iteration of the team, ultimately increases our chance of answering that question with a "yes". Then do it.

The biggest bit (sorry!) there is probably the transition. I’ve posted elsewhere that I do genuinely see what a “good” Liam Manning team looks like because I understand how he wants to play. The thing is that it’s not really using the base, it’s more starting over. And he can’t go from A>Z (had more opportunity to do so at Oxford because of relative ability to recruit).

But can he go from A>B, B>C etc until he gets to Z?

And that’s the biggest bit (sorry, again) - the way Liam wants to play may have more chance of getting us top 6 (debate, discuss etc) - but are we confident he’d be able to manage through the transitions to get there without the Big Bang? The lack of adaptability and in game management to date raises a pretty big question mark.

Good convo though
 

 

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

The biggest bit (sorry!) there is probably the transition. I’ve posted elsewhere that I do genuinely see what a “good” Liam Manning team looks like because I understand how he wants to play. The thing is that it’s not really using the base, it’s more starting over. And he can’t go from A>Z (had more opportunity to do so at Oxford because of relative ability to recruit).

But can he go from A>B, B>C etc until he gets to Z?

And that’s the biggest bit (sorry, again) - the way Liam wants to play may have more chance of getting us top 6 (debate, discuss etc) - but are we confident he’d be able to manage through the transitions to get there without the Big Bang? The lack of adaptability and in game management to date raises a pretty big question mark.

Good convo though

Yes, and since I posted I had the thought that actually it's not as simple as "can we finish 6th?". It's more "can we finish 6th in 2024/25".

Because next season is the best chance for a while in my opinion. Good financial base, good age structure in the squad (as it stands), good purchasing power. We need to leverage these aligning stars and push for top 6 next season.

So we don't have time to give the project 3 years. So even if you think Manning's style will work, it needs to work next season. He needs to go from A-Z in the next 6 months. He's got one transfer window and one pre-season imo.

If you don't think that's possible or even likely, then it's fair to hold a belief that we should ditch him, get someone who can take develop this squad a little bit, and get us in with a chance of positively exploiting the good position we will be in next season.

[TonyTonyTony]

I've tried to give the bloke a fair crack, but he is so uninspiring. Tactics to one side, you have to motivate players. He has very little charisma, and a very boring tone - id be half asleep listening to him. If we lose tomorrow, with another poor display, its going to be toxic. Its a must win (for Manning).

 

[cidered abroad]

I know I said it earlier this week but his body language told me that he hasn't a clue on how to organise the squad into a team that suits him.

Simple answer is to get a MANAGER, not a head coach, who will be able to restore the players confidence on the pitch.

As that will not happen, he will have another relegation (did MK go down at end of his time there) on his career record.