Liam Pre Cardiff

[Andy082005]

3 hours ago, Ashton Fete said:

It doesn’t help his communication style is drier than a rusk so no harm putting these out to the other coaches but maybe he wanted to front it up

We couldn’t ask for better back to back home games so let’s hope the lessons have been learnt, players come out firing and we win both.

Whilst there’s still 12 games to go, I think the Cardiff and Swansea games will set so much of the tone until the end of the season re performances, fans reactions to him, players, contracts, season ticket sales, on the day payers and so on.

Roll on 1230 Saturday….

You say that - but the West Ham and Southampton games should have done that . Then look at the absolute shite Lee Johnson Mk 2 and the team dished up 

We could go out and batter Cardiff and Swansea - yet I still have zero confidence that this coach and team can put in a strong, consistent end to the season

“see you in the Prem” 

[Shauntaylor85]

Don’t like his approach at all. But comes across like someone who knows that even if he finishes 21st he will keep his job. 

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

 

Bet he is shit at poker.

Reference your previous post - like you I’ve noticed a small change in his pressers. He no longer bleats on about ‘not enough time on the grass’ which has been labelled dull and repetitive on here and it being mentioned that he’s not the only manager that has a relentless Championship fixtures.

 

[Lew-T]

I did hear a snippet of Manning talking about the lack of time again on working with the players in that interview. Just a passing comment…

[One Team]

17 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Don’t like his approach at all. But comes across like someone who knows that even if he finishes 21st he will keep his job. 

Yep, he knows he’s safe with Lansdown whatever happens this season. They are in for a shock if we lose Saturday and then again against Swansea. 

[cellist]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

I don't think he read it...he swallowed it whole, and spouts coaching terminology lazily. 

He's the Les Dawson of coaching...says all the right phrases, but not particularly in the right order.

I really can't warm to him. Full of his own hype. 

Even Tommy was using expressions in his presser that he'd obviously had drilled into his head. 

 

 

He doesn't come across as easy to warm to, and that is exacerbated by the last two results/performances. If he was winning games I dare say we would be warming to him - we'd be saying how ruthless and focussed he was, confident in his own ability, measured, detail orientated, tactically astute, young and up and coming etc. Some would see through it, but football fans will be taken in by pretty much anything as long as the team is winning. But when the chips are down, all the sound bites come across really badly.

To those who say he reads the forum - clearly not enough or he'd have dropped the word "behaviours" from his vocabulary by now!

[Silvio Dante]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

If you watch it you’ll understand the context. 

I think you’re being a tad facetious again Mr Dante. 
 

Yes, those were the words which were said but it was in the context of ‘we’ve been crap for 2 games but before that we’d come off the back of positive performances vs Southampton as well as Forest twice.’ 
 

20 games wasn’t a ‘scientific’ stat he’s studied and concluded. It was just a throwaway comment that whilst he acknowledges the last 2 have been bad, it’s not been all bad over the last couple of months. 
 

You know as well as I do that he doesn’t actually specifically mean he’s happy with 19 out of the last 20 performances. 

I’m not sure I am being facetious, but here is the full quote in context (starts at 10:27) - it’s pretty clear. He wasn’t even asked about the performances against other games, he just said what he thought - and yes, I do think that means he’s broadly happy with 19 of 20 performances- in the context, it can’t really be read any other way!

James Piercy: How much have you adapted as coach from when you came in November to where you are now and how much has the team progressed as to how you’d want it to?

Liam Manning: Of course I have to adapt because of what players we have ultimately. I think if you’re that stubborn and you’re that set you can be at your detriment sometimes of course I have a clear idea of what I want it to look like on my head y’know we’ve got close to that at some points this season but I know there’s still a lot to come in terms of the group we’ve got here, their capacity to learn, improve to get better in key moments. And then also then beyond that it’s adding the right profile on the summer which I think is also key as well so I think it’s the two for me but again like I said it’s - I’m not getting carried away because of two poor performances if you look at the twenty before that there was only one out of twenty so you probably saw I was not too happy at the weekend but for me it’s an opportunity to change it there’s a lot of talk around the club the theme around the club we’ve always done it this way or the other and that’s the bit that excites me - it’s an opportunity to change it; I’ve said to the players it’s an opportunity for them to change it for them to grab it and go “right this is the direction we’re going in” and doing everything in our power to make sure we stop that happening so everyone stops saying it.

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

Oh, he did. Technically one in 20 prior to the last two, so 3 in 22 but up until QPR we were playing like prime Barca (that last bit is sarcasm)

Absolutely he did. It was no throw away comment either. There was no misunderstanding, or taking it out of context or him being flippant. He very clearly said "I'm not getting carried away because of two poor performances, if you look at the 20 before there was only 1 out of 20" and this is backed up by his various post matches where he kept saying we had played well which left most of us scratching our heads. 

He either genuinely believes we've only had one poor performance in 20 or he knows it's been worse than that and he's trying to skim over that to take pressure off himself. Either one is concerning. 

Just show some integrity and say it has been more than one in 20. 

[Sir Geoff]

Did he mention 'behaviours ' ?

[Silvio Dante]

Just now, Sir Geoff said:

Did he mention 'behaviours ' ?

He did mention the biggest bit several times and it was a slightly different biggest bit every time so now I have no idea what the biggest bit is.

And that’s the biggest bit.

[RollsRoyce]

Manning looks and sounds well out of his depth.

It is now just a question of time. The owner will throw money at another crap decision, we will have a few saying he needs time, and his players. But we are just treading water again until it is abundantly clear. we have hired another dud. Rinse and repeat. 

Tinnion, Manning, Jon L what a combo to get to the Prem. This is why Bristol City is a backwater, not one of the 52 clubs to have played in the Prem, and will continually fail until we have competent high-level people in key positions. No blueprint for success would have those 3 in it. 

 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

Having digested that. He's basically said he came in here, didn't know what he had in the building, tried to get players to play the way he wanted to play but they wouldn't do that and thats not his fault.

He gave them all the tools and information to do so but they've just not got the required quality or desire. 

It's taken him months to adjust his own approach (and writting off our season in the process) but it's all the players fault so he'll be getting rid of as many as possible in the summer and bringing in players that do suit his approach because all his game plans are the right game plans and everyone else is to blame but him. 

There isn't a game plan for the Cardiff game, just get out there on the pitch and see how Cardiff play. 

He has cosy chats with Tinnion every day which probably includes them both laughing at fans being annoyed with 2 wins in 10. 

No one can seriously defend that press conference and come out of it with any credibility. 

 

Edited February 29 by W-S-M Seagull

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

He did mention the biggest bit several times and it was a slightly different biggest bit every time so now I have no idea what the biggest bit is.

And that’s the biggest bit.

The guy used to constantly mention principles. 

Doesn't mention it anymore. Probably because his playing style principles have gone out of the window now he realises they ain't any good at this level. 

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I’m not sure I am being facetious, but here is the full quote in context (starts at 10:27) - it’s pretty clear. He wasn’t even asked about the performances against other games, he just said what he thought - and yes, I do think that means he’s broadly happy with 19 of 20 performances- in the context, it can’t really be read any other way!

James Piercy: How much have you adapted as coach from when you came in November to where you are now and how much has the team progressed as to how you’d want it to?

Liam Manning: Of course I have to adapt because of what players we have ultimately. I think if you’re that stubborn and you’re that set you can be at your detriment sometimes of course I have a clear idea of what I want it to look like on my head y’know we’ve got close to that at some points this season but I know there’s still a lot to come in terms of the group we’ve got here, their capacity to learn, improve to get better in key moments. And then also then beyond that it’s adding the right profile on the summer which I think is also key as well so I think it’s the two for me but again like I said it’s - I’m not getting carried away because of two poor performances if you look at the twenty before that there was only one out of twenty so you probably saw I was not too happy at the weekend but for me it’s an opportunity to change it there’s a lot of talk around the club the theme around the club we’ve always done it this way or the other and that’s the bit that excites me - it’s an opportunity to change it; I’ve said to the players it’s an opportunity for them to change it for them to grab it and go “right this is the direction we’re going in” and doing everything in our power to make sure we stop that happening so everyone stops saying it.

I’m gonna defend him here…to start with.

He was interviewed a few weeks ago and his specifically mentioned that he thought performance levels had been good in pretty much even game.  But he did qualify that with - “for 60, maybe 70 mins in a game, we’ve not yet had many performances over the full 90 mins” (paraphrased).

Nor do I equate a “performance” to dominating for 90 mins.

So to some extent I agree that we have reached the performance levels in virtually every game.

The bit where I start to critique his comment is whether his evaluation of 60-70 minutes is fair / accurate.

I think subjectivity starts to come into it from a fans point of view, often guided by the end result.  Was Norwich that bad, or did conceding in injury time cloud that we were okay first half.  I dunno, that’s down to each of us.

+++++

But having heard a story last night of him unable to get his methods across, I’ve got to say I’m very disappointed from linking that to how he answered today’s question.  I don’t think this group of players are incapable.

As Harry alludes to, a bad indictment of the hierarchy.

God knows where we go from here?

Throw money at it? Again?

[Graham76]

Every interview he does feels the same and just sounds robotic.   Conway's interview was depressing too.    

[RollsRoyce]

4 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Having digested that. He's basically said he came in here, didn't know what he had in the building, tried to get players to play the way he wanted to play but they wouldn't do that and thats not his fault.

He gave them all the tools and information to do so but they've just not got the required quality or desire. 

It's taken him months to adjust his own approach (and writting off our season in the process) but it's all the players fault so he'll be getting rid of as many as possible in the summer and bringing in players that do suit his approach because all his game plans are the right game plans and everyone else is to blame but him. 

There isn't a game plan for the Cardiff game, just get out there on the pitch and see how Cardiff play. 

He has cosy chats with Tinnion every day which probably includes them both laughing at fans being annoyed with 2 wins in 10. 

No one can seriously defend that press conference and come out of it with any credibility. 

 

Well, he played us twice, once pre season, and once in the cup. We battered his side easily 5-1. He should have a pretty good idea of what we can do against his style of play. Is there another manager in the game who has been appointed to a club a few months after being battered by his current side 5-1? That is some weird interview technique Tinnion has. If it was the other way around, well yes, that could make sense. Maybe. " Yes Liam, we are impressed at  how you set your side up when we beat you 5-1 a few weeks ago". we even gave him a preview at a pre season friendly. But no, we still battered them. You got the job !!!

Only Bristol City, Only the Lansdowns could do this. 

[Northern Red]

36 minutes ago, One Team said:

Yep, he knows he’s safe with Lansdown whatever happens this season. They are in for a shock if we lose Saturday and then again against Swansea. 

But they're not, are they?

[One Team]

Just now, Northern Red said:

But they're not, are they?

Sorry how do mean?

[Silvio Dante]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m gonna defend him here…to start with.

He was interviewed a few weeks ago and his specifically mentioned that he thought performance levels had been good in pretty much even game.  But he did qualify that with - “for 60, maybe 70 mins in a game, we’ve not yet had many performances over the full 90 mins” (paraphrased).

Nor do I equate a “performance” to dominating for 90 mins.

So to some extent I agree that we have reached the performance levels in virtually every game.

The bit where I start to critique his comment is whether his evaluation of 60-70 minutes is fair / accurate.

I think subjectivity starts to come into it from a fans point of view, often guided by the end result.  Was Norwich that bad, or did conceding in injury time cloud that we were okay first half.  I dunno, that’s down to each of us.

+++++

But having heard a story last night of him unable to get his methods across, I’ve got to say I’m very disappointed from linking that to how he answered today’s question.  I don’t think this group of players are incapable.

As Harry alludes to, a bad indictment of the hierarchy.

God knows where we go from here?

Throw money at it? Again?

Bit of layman stuff here Dave, and where I do agree with Harry and you is that there have been bits in games where we’ve been fine. But even if you set the bar lower at 50% of time the better side, then it’s way more than one poor performance - we’ve all seen the pattern of starting well and being found out.

Laymans - on how many of those 20 games, ignoring outcome bias, would people say we played well - and that isn’t doing it for 10-20 minutes, it’s walking away and saying we played well. It’s not 19.

But yes the indictment is on the hierarchy - as I’ve said lack of due diligence on him as he appears to be a very one dimensional coach. Where we go from here? God knows. But keeping Manning if he can’t get his methods across to a group of not incapable players seems madness. And not trusting Tinnion to get it right isn’t a reason to keep Manning.

[spudski]

24 minutes ago, cellist said:

He doesn't come across as easy to warm to, and that is exacerbated by the last two results/performances. If he was winning games I dare say we would be warming to him - we'd be saying how ruthless and focussed he was, confident in his own ability, measured, detail orientated, tactically astute, young and up and coming etc. Some would see through it, but football fans will be taken in by pretty much anything as long as the team is winning. But when the chips are down, all the sound bites come across really badly.

To those who say he reads the forum - clearly not enough or he'd have dropped the word "behaviours" from his vocabulary by now!

Imo he's definitely been briefed on being less 'Coach' when doing interviews for the fans. However, it's noticeable when questions hit a nerve or he feels more under scrutiny, he resorts to type. It's his comfort blanket so to speak. He babbles on just using phrases that sound like he knows what he's talking about...designed to baffle. You get the same in the corporate world. 

He comes across like these numpties on the Apprentice. 

I think you maybe doing fans a disservice when it comes to seeing through it. 

Can you imagine being a Prem winner, an International, a player with experience at a higher level, having won promotions,  been managed and coached by people that have achieved and won at top levels, with vast experience...and you have to turn up to training each day, and be told by a young bloke who's managed MK Dons and Oxford, that he's going to improve you, tell you stuff you don't already know, how to have the right ' behaviours' make you better and inspire you with his vast experience, knowledge and how to win? Kinnel...makes you cringe thinking about it. 

No wonder they want to clear out all the players that have achieved and won...and fill their places with nobodies who have won nothing. And have everything to learn. 

Makes it far easier for him and BT. 

It's a joke when you actually think about it. 

[The Original OTIB]

1 hour ago, cellist said:

He doesn't come across as easy to warm to, and that is exacerbated by the last two results/performances. If he was winning games I dare say we would be warming to him - we'd be saying how ruthless and focussed he was, confident in his own ability, measured, detail orientated, tactically astute, young and up and coming etc. Some would see through it, but football fans will be taken in by pretty much anything as long as the team is winning. But when the chips are down, all the sound bites come across really badly.

To those who say he reads the forum - clearly not enough or he'd have dropped the word "behaviours" from his vocabulary by now!

Using it less. Old habits.

[Davefevs]

18 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Bit of layman stuff here Dave, and where I do agree with Harry and you is that there have been bits in games where we’ve been fine. But even if you set the bar lower at 50% of time the better side, then it’s way more than one poor performance - we’ve all seen the pattern of starting well and being found out.

Laymans - on how many of those 20 games, ignoring outcome bias, would people say we played well - and that isn’t doing it for 10-20 minutes, it’s walking away and saying we played well. It’s not 19.

But yes the indictment is on the hierarchy - as I’ve said lack of due diligence on him as he appears to be a very one dimensional coach. Where we go from here? God knows. But keeping Manning if he can’t get his methods across to a group of not incapable players seems madness. And not trusting Tinnion to get it right isn’t a reason to keep Manning.

Totally.  Fevs eye and Fevs numbers say a little bit better in some areas, a little bit worse in others, coming out in a small regression overall currently, but nothing huge.

But if you add today to that picture it’s not really about results is it?

arghhhh

[Silvio Dante]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Totally.  Fevs eye and Fevs numbers say a little bit better in some areas, a little bit worse in others, coming out in a small regression overall currently, but nothing huge.

But if you add today to that picture it’s not really about results is it?

arghhhh

By “today” I’m thinking you mean specifically the presser - and I agree. One of the bits I don’t understand is that Liam isn’t particularly great at the pressers in terms of being engaging (some good answers but a lot of corporate speak). I also think as we’ve said before you can see him bristling sometimes when he’s questioned - he’s not happy with things that veer from the process.

With that in mind, as you’ve said, I can’t understand why once they haven’t put Hogg up to take him out of the firing line and give a slightly different perspective. My non scientific answer is that every bit of PR they’ve put out since day one is how great Liam is and we’re too far down the rabbit hole now.

But yesterday definitely made things worse not better. If you don’t think we’ve played well in 19 of 20 games then don’t bloody say it!

[Henry]

5 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

By “today” I’m thinking you mean specifically the presser - and I agree. One of the bits I don’t understand is that Liam isn’t particularly great at the pressers in terms of being engaging (some good answers but a lot of corporate speak). I also think as we’ve said before you can see him bristling sometimes when he’s questioned - he’s not happy with things that veer from the process.

With that in mind, as you’ve said, I can’t understand why once they haven’t put Hogg up to take him out of the firing line and give a slightly different perspective. My non scientific answer is that every bit of PR they’ve put out since day one is how great Liam is and we’re too far down the rabbit hole now.

But yesterday definitely made things worse not better. If you don’t think we’ve played well in 19 of 20 games then don’t bloody say it!

That comment sounded like he’s under a bit of pressure and got a bit emotional.

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, Henry said:

That comment sounded like he’s under a bit of pressure and got a bit emotional.

He needs to not get too high with the highs and too low with the lows. I think that’s the biggest bit.

[Henry]

8 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

He needs to not get too high with the highs and too low with the lows. I think that’s the biggest bit.

The behaviours need to be terrific, right?

[supercidered]

I can't be sure but I think the general consensus is that Liam pre Cardiff interview wasn't particularly impressive? (sarcasm is difficult to put across in typed form).

I really hope that if we do get 3 points at home (no sarcasm) then Liam doesn't do that embarrassing Klopp impression to S82 / South Stand. Such a cringe. Though he hasn't had the opportunity to do it much. 

[robin_unreliant]

If the issue is that the squad don't have the ability to play as LM would like, how quickly can we change that? I would be interested to know opinions, excluding Twine, on whether the January signings are gonna fit.

My concern is they are targets BT had already lined up as he likes them, rather than being the right types to fit Manningball.

As we reputedly are only looking at maybe an AM/Twine and a striker then that ain't gonna give Liam much help in getting to his type of squad next season either.

All supports the theory that BT is as thick as two short ones as far as I can see.

[cellist]

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/68431928

Heard this interview with Warnock today after Aberdeen had lost at St Johnstone and thought it made an interesting comparison. Fans chanting "you're not fit to wear the shirt and sack the board." Of course the situations are very different - he inherited a team underperforming in the bottom half, we were in a decent position and have a "top six squad"...

He's also very critical of his playing staff. More of their attitude and integrity rather than playing ability or "ability to learn". And silly mistakes - "I don't care if you're Pep Guardiola, if you concede goals like that you're going to lose games". I guess his reputation in the game allows him to do that - and it isn't a sulky, off the cuff, defensive comment. It's a challenge to his players - that's his man management style.

Difference is the honesty and straightforwardness though. "We played well in the two home games, but if we play like that we won't win another game". "I understand the fans, they deserve better". No hiding behind coach-speak, no nonsense comments about 1 bad performance in 20. Hard work on the training ground required.

Not for a moment suggesting we appoint Colin! But why can't we have a manager/some leadership who respect the fans and don't hind behind bullshit, and just tell things how they are?

Obviously we did have that, and that ship has sadly sailed. LM not helping himself when results and performances aren't good. Needs a win on Saturday that's for sure.

[The Coach]

I’ve come to the very sad agreement with myself that I’ve now lost interest in moaning or raising my concerns about Manning. Simply because nothing will change and fans won’t be listened to. Our opinions do not matter. 
 

As someone else posted elsewhere. We could finish 21st and Manning will still be here. He’s going nowhere. Unlike Sunderland, JL and BT won’t hold their hands up and admit their mistakes and as I said last weekend. They will spend and back Manning to prove us all wrong (which I still think will backfire like the LJ project). 
 

It’s simply not the club I’ve grown up to support anymore, and I have no interest in returning to AG until change of ownership or SL finally wakes up and puts in an actual Footballing SME panel to run the club on his behalf. Which I also do not see happening.
 

We are a dead end club, and I’ve simply become tired of it and its continuous mistakes over and over again.