If losing 7-0 tonight live on Sky forced change…

[eardun]

From some of the comments on here, I presume that some people would be disappointed if we won 7-0 (or got any kind of win)  

[LondonBristolian]

I never ever want us to lose and that doesn't change tonight.

What I want is for us to produce a brilliant performance and win. However, even if that happens. I want the club to look at the pattern rather than the individual dots. A win would be great but it would only be meaningful for the long-term if it is followed by consistent improvement and a sustained period of good results. Otherwise it's great to get a result but meaningless in terms of our long-term direction.

In the past, I think we've been too easily swayed by the good result at the right time. Lee Johnson in particular had a knack of pulling a result out of nowhere when everyone had run out of patience and I can certainly see a scenario where the team play with less pressure to get a result against a team who provide opportunities to counter-attack and it results in a win or a draw, which then becomes "evidence" that the club is on the right path, only for it quickly to transpire that no lessons are learned. What I would say is that - whatever the results - if the team do not raise their performance levels tonight then I will be even more sceptical of the manager's ability to turn things round. 

[phantom]

30 minutes ago, Graham76 said:

I would rather lose 7-0 tonight and Manning gets sacked than go through a whole rebuild again.  I can’t bear another rebuild.  

Isn't that exactly what will trigger a whole new rebuild?

[The Original OTIB]

21 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

"And what have you brought in to the shop today"

"Well Jay I've brought this. It's a 130 year old football club that my great-great-grandfather found in Bristol."

"Oh wow. Oh wow it's beautiful. A bit faded, a bit bashed about a bit isn't it. Looks like it's not been looked after brilliantly maybe?"

"Yeh it's had it's fair share of adventures. Quite a few ups and downs. Once went all the way down to the basement straight from the loft, quite the plummet that was. Took a beating but we've managed to get it straightened out a little bit ourselves."

"Wonderful. Now, what would you like us to do with it?"

"Well it's been in my family for generations you see, and really, really I just want to see it in an FA Cup final one more time, maybe a second place finish in the top division. God maybe even just a Gloucester Cup win."

"Yeh, yeh, well leave it with us and we'll see what we can do."

Abandon all hope, ye who enter ... here.

[The Coach]

It’s a tricky one as I understand the sentiment behind it. As someone highlighted previously, smashing by Swansea almost 20 years ago lead to Tinnions sacking, and GJ taking over. Rest is history.

The challenge you have is, we don’t know what the temperature is by SL or JL. They may have given Manning their full support regardless of league position this year, as long as it’s not relegation. 
 

If I could look into a crystal ball and knew if we lost tonight and at Swansea. Lead to the removal of Manning. I myself would be somewhat tempted to take that risk. You never want your team to lose but you also want the greater good for your team and look for the future. If short term pain lead to long term fortune. You’d have to take it.

Furthermore, even if Manning was removed. I have zero faith in those above to get the next appointment right.

Stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[steveybadger]

1 hour ago, Steve Watts said:

Genuinely not seeing this.  Performances have regressed, players have regressed, results have regressed and league position has regressed.  I see zero signs of any sort of progress.

 

56 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

This is a total myth which has constantly been churned out. 

There has been zero signs of any progress in his time here. 

Infact we have got worse. 

No signs at all? To start with we kept the ball more which I think was overdue if we were going to progress as a team. Watford away, West Ham, Forest away. Then the Southampton game, 4 games ago, was the best performance by a City team I’ve seen in a good while, regardless of how we played tactically and similarities to NPs. Certainly the most convincing performance against an ex Prem team given our record has been appalling against them in recent times. 

Look last few games are concerning, I’m not glossing over the big issues we have. I just don’t think it’s been nothing but decline since he took over .

 

 

[22A]

FWIW; A televised 4-2 home defeat got rid of Fred Ford.

[Redrascal2]

Having watched the Cardiff game, if that is the future with Manning then I hope whatever needs to happen, happens to get rid of him.

[Sheltons Army]

7 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

 

No signs at all? To start with we kept the ball more which I think was overdue if we were going to progress as a team. Watford away, West Ham, Forest away. Then the Southampton game, 4 games ago, was the best performance by a City team I’ve seen in a good while, regardless of how we played tactically and similarities to NPs. Certainly the most convincing performance against an ex Prem team given our record has been appalling against them in recent times. 

Look last few games are concerning, I’m not glossing over the big issues we have. I just don’t think it’s been nothing but decline since he took over .

 

 

Resilient in the cup games and Southampton was our best all round performance probably for years , but an outlier right now

 

We are 22nd in the form table since Boxing Day , not over 3 games

Only doomed Rotherham worse

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

 

No signs at all? To start with we kept the ball more which I think was overdue if we were going to progress as a team. Watford away, West Ham, Forest away. Then the Southampton game, 4 games ago, was the best performance by a City team I’ve seen in a good while, regardless of how we played tactically and similarities to NPs. Certainly the most convincing performance against an ex Prem team given our record has been appalling against them in recent times. 

Look last few games are concerning, I’m not glossing over the big issues we have. I just don’t think it’s been nothing but decline since he took over .

 

 

You've mentioned that we keep the ball better but then mention 6 games where we played more like how we did previously. 

Do we keep the ball better? I don't think so. I think we see a lot of passing amongst our back 4 which bores the life out of everyone. I think you're really scraping the barrel if you think that is progress. 

@Davefevs mentioned something about passing/possession last night on SOTC. 

It's not been a recent decline. Its been happening ever since he got here. Its just that the cup games glossed over the league performances.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

57 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

What if we lose 0:8?

I'll be devastated. Lose by 1-2 just  peed off , 3-5 generally angry, 5-10 apoplectic. Fortunately the latter is a rarity.

Shall we have this conversation every time City have a match so we can all play anti-Manning Bingo?

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

I never want City to lose. 
 

I would much rather LM recovered and our results and performances stabilised than we embark on a ‘new manager’ fiasco - weeks of limbo whilst potential candidates are interviewed - especially considering who would be in charge of selecting Liams replacement. 

It’s ’better the devil you know’ for me - for now at least. 
 

[Southend Blue]

Can understand the logic in wanting fans to lose convincingly in hope to force out any undesirables from a club name.   We had the same thing when Marcus Evans and his long list of god-awful managerial appointments were running our then once proud club name into the ground.  

You never really want to see your team lose any game and it causes division among the fanbase but when things have reached a certain level and change is or seems imperative then sometimes you have to make sacrifices for the greater good.

You won't be beaten by seven goals tonight, the way McKenna deploys his team set-up will see to that and we very rarely hit goals in high number in any given fixture.     A lot depends later on how much our players really want it and the level of desire or appetite within them.      We have the strength in depth to do damage to any given opposition but sometimes appear too lenient in finishing teams off.     

 

[Steve Watts]

11 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

 

No signs at all? To start with we kept the ball more which I think was overdue if we were going to progress as a team. Watford away, West Ham, Forest away. Then the Southampton game, 4 games ago, was the best performance by a City team I’ve seen in a good while, regardless of how we played tactically and similarities to NPs. Certainly the most convincing performance against an ex Prem team given our record has been appalling against them in recent times. 

Look last few games are concerning, I’m not glossing over the big issues we have. I just don’t think it’s been nothing but decline since he took over .

 

 

Yes...no signs at all.  I honestly don't think  "regardless of how we played tactically and similarities to NPs" holds any weight in the argument as they are atypical set ups to how Manning wants to play.  They are the outliers and in spite of those being our best performances of the season he doesn't keep the system that produced them.  So no, I don't see those as progress to be honest.  Progress would be sending out the team to play that way every week as it shows that he knows how to play to the strengths of the players involved.  As it is, he doesn't seem to want that.

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

"And what have you brought in to the shop today"

"Well Jay I've brought this. It's a 130 year old football club that my great-great-grandfather found in Bristol."

"Oh wow. Oh wow it's beautiful. A bit faded, a bit bashed about a bit isn't it. Looks like it's not been looked after brilliantly maybe?"

"Yeh it's had it's fair share of adventures. Quite a few ups and downs. Once went all the way down to the basement straight from the loft, quite the plummet that was. Took a beating but we've managed to get it straightened out a little bit ourselves."

"Wonderful. Now, what would you like us to do with it?"

"Well it's been in my family for generations you see, and really, really I just want to see it in an FA Cup final one more time, maybe a second place finish in the top division. God maybe even just a Gloucester Cup win."

"Yeh, yeh, well leave it with us and we'll see what we can do."

Or…..the Repair Shop Comic Relief version, that’s currently being run as a trailer….

”yeh, well I’m afraid it’s knackered and past it…just bin it”

Edited March 5 by italian dave

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Resilient in the cup games and Southampton was our best all round performance probably for years , but an outlier right now

 

We are 22nd in the form table since Boxing Day , not over 3 games

Only doomed Rotherham worse

Yep. Really annoys me when people say it's only a recent thing, as if to pass it off as some sort of blip. For the most part it has been turgid. The cup games made people over look how bad we were in the league. Now the cup run is over people are now seeing things in the cold light of day. 

There was all those excuses flying around, too many games, not enough time on the grass blah blah blah. Now those excuses are gone it's "he needs his own players" it's monotonous.

Some of us were saying what it was like all along. 

The fact weve only looked good in only handful of games (and only because the opposition allowed us to play to our strengths) says an awful lot. 

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

You've mentioned that we keep the ball better but then mention 6 games where we played more like how we did previously. 

Do we keep the ball better? I don't think so. I think we see a lot of passing amongst our back 4 which bores the life out of everyone. I think you're really scraping the barrel if you think that is progress. 

@Davefevs mentioned something about passing/possession last night on SOTC. 

It's not been a recent decline. Its been happening ever since he got here. Its just that the cup games glossed over the league performances.

Yes, something I’ve mentioned on here previously.

We've gone from 800 pass games under Nige (at roughly 400 per team) to 1000 pass games under Liam (roughly 480 / 520).

So, you could argue we are keeping the ball better, but…

- in non-threatening areas (across our back-4)

and…

- our opponents are seeing more of the ball too

We are seeing more of the 90 mins played out against well-set defences (ours and theirs) and less to get out of your seat for.  That’s not dominating or controlling the game through possession.

Compare that to Southampton, where we got into our defensive shape quickly, allowed them 70% of the bal,, but punished them on the counter.  Of course Liam will say he controlled the game without possession, ie by his solid defensive shape.  But you can see the irony of that when QPR and Cardiff did that to us (to an extent) and he comes out and says he controlled it.

[pillred]

3 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

… would you take it?

I thought the magic number was 7-1. Or exactly how much change were you looking for?

[Bedred31]

For what it’s worth, I predict a strong performance tonight, with at least a point- narrow win as likely as a  narrow defeat. Ipswich will press a bit, our ‘thinking time’ will be reduced and and a bit of space will emerge, allowing us to get in behind them, if only occasionally. 

[Supersonic Robin]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

I never ever want us to lose and that doesn't change tonight.

What I want is for us to produce a brilliant performance and win. However, even if that happens. I want the club to look at the pattern rather than the individual dots. A win would be great but it would only be meaningful for the long-term if it is followed by consistent improvement and a sustained period of good results. Otherwise it's great to get a result but meaningless in terms of our long-term direction.

In the past, I think we've been too easily swayed by the good result at the right time. Lee Johnson in particular had a knack of pulling a result out of nowhere when everyone had run out of patience and I can certainly see a scenario where the team play with less pressure to get a result against a team who provide opportunities to counter-attack and it results in a win or a draw, which then becomes "evidence" that the club is on the right path, only for it quickly to transpire that no lessons are learned. What I would say is that - whatever the results - if the team do not raise their performance levels tonight then I will be even more sceptical of the manager's ability to turn things round. 

This is much of my concern - I don't think the club look at these things objectively.

BT, JL, & SL, will be actively looking for evidence to "prove" that Manning was the right appointment.

Conversely, they actively looked for evidence to "prove" that Pearson should leave. 

They have a desired action then look for the information to support it, rather than looking at the information and using that to then decide upon the action.

[Simon bristol]

4 hours ago, redsquirrel said:

and believe it or not, i think we have got a chance of a result tonight

About as much chance as we did against Southampton. Someone called me out when i suggested something similar the other day.

[ralphindevon]

It’s over 3 years since we lost a game by more than 4 goals, 6-0 v Watford.

A lot of very close games in those 3 years with just a few bad defeats , 6-2 v Fulham, 3-0 v Birmingham spring to mind.

No idea what’ll happen tonight but I’m obviously hoping for a win. 

[bcfcredandwhite]

32 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

It’s over 3 years since we lost a game by more than 4 goals, 6-0 v Watford.

A lot of very close games in those 3 years with just a few bad defeats , 6-2 v Fulham, 3-0 v Birmingham spring to mind.

No idea what’ll happen tonight but I’m obviously hoping for a win. 

Didn’t we lose something like 6-0 at Portman Road in GJs Playoff Final season?

I seem to remember we played the home fixture very shortly afterwards -only a couple of weeks later - and won it 2-1(?) - a very bad tempered affair with loads of fouls. 
I may be wrong - not using Google as I’m trying to keep my memory active in old age!!! 

[ralphindevon]

7 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

Didn’t we lose something like 6-0 at Portman Road in GJs Playoff Final season?

I seem to remember we played the home fixture very shortly afterwards -only a couple of weeks later - and won it 2-1(?) - a very bad tempered affair with loads of fouls. 
I may be wrong - not using Google as I’m trying to keep my memory active in old age!!! 

You’ve comfortably passed the test, I won’t deduct you a point because it was 2-0 in the home game as everything else was spot on.

 

[A Horse With No Name]

2 hours ago, Southend Blue said:

Can understand the logic in wanting fans to lose convincingly in hope to force out any undesirables from a club name.   We had the same thing when Marcus Evans and his long list of god-awful managerial appointments were running our then once proud club name into the ground.  

You never really want to see your team lose any game and it causes division among the fanbase but when things have reached a certain level and change is or seems imperative then sometimes you have to make sacrifices for the greater good.

You won't be beaten by seven goals tonight, the way McKenna deploys his team set-up will see to that and we very rarely hit goals in high number in any given fixture.     A lot depends later on how much our players really want it and the level of desire or appetite within them.      We have the strength in depth to do damage to any given opposition but sometimes appear too lenient in finishing teams off.     

 

With the 4 top teams pretty much on a par with each other, now could be the time to boost your goal difference. 

[Shauntaylor85]

The fact we are even debating a thread on this shows all is not well at the club. 

[MarcusX]

20 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

Didn’t we lose something like 6-0 at Portman Road in GJs Playoff Final season?

I seem to remember we played the home fixture very shortly afterwards -only a couple of weeks later - and won it 2-1(?) - a very bad tempered affair with loads of fouls. 
I may be wrong - not using Google as I’m trying to keep my memory active in old age!!! 

Yup and I’ve hated Chelsea Dagger ever since 

[ashton_fan]

When we've lost recently it's only been by the odd goal, get a grip!

[Red-Robbo]

Removing Manning wouldn't remove the problem that brought Manning to the club.

After we lost to Swansea 7-1 I just happened to be meeting up for a drink (pre-arranged) with the only Swansea fan I know.  He was naturally jubilant and tried taunting me, but the sting of our defeat was slightly tempered for me by the removal earlier that day of Brian Tinnion.

If we lose heavily tonight, I don't feel just a managerial change would resolve our problems. 

Edited March 5 by Red-Robbo

[formerly known as ivan]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, something I’ve mentioned on here previously.

We've gone from 800 pass games under Nige (at roughly 400 per team) to 1000 pass games under Liam (roughly 480 / 520).

So, you could argue we are keeping the ball better, but…

- in non-threatening areas (across our back-4)

and…

- our opponents are seeing more of the ball too

We are seeing more of the 90 mins played out against well-set defences (ours and theirs) and less to get out of your seat for.  That’s not dominating or controlling the game through possession.

Compare that to Southampton, where we got into our defensive shape quickly, allowed them 70% of the bal,, but punished them on the counter.  Of course Liam will say he controlled the game without possession, ie by his solid defensive shape.  But you can see the irony of that when QPR and Cardiff did that to us (to an extent) and he comes out and says he controlled it.

I think the bottom line Dave is that regardless of keeping the ball better or not, we are not winning games and we are not playing football the fans want to see.

Unfortunately the Southampton game was a one off, the only decent league performance under Manning to date. We played with pace and purpose.

The worse thing for me is the papering over the cracks with the occasional unexpected win here and there, whilst having to put up with watching the same mundane football week in week out.