Fair Targets for Manning

[WeAreThePigs]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

I hear a lot of comments saying "he needs more time", "what can he do with these players" (despite being brought in to improve "these players") plus some complete and utter dribbling mess by the Tekkers Dictator about everyone being happy after Southampton etc. etc. Surely there has to be a common ground of targets that he needs to hit WITH THESE PLAYERS over the last nine games otherwise the club need to be ruthless and say thanks Liam but you ain't doing it and we can't risk giving you £6m and failing. For me:

MINIMUM 59 Points (same as last season)

Two wins MINIMUM out of Huddersfield, Blackburn and Rotherham

A MINIMUM of five of our remaining nine games where people come away generally having enjoyed the football on offer

13K MINIMUM Season Tickets Sold (otherwise it's clear too many fans aren't on board with him)

Anything less than the above and I think it's fair to fire him. Anything unfair in the above?

I despair at some of our fan base.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, WeAreThePigs said:

I despair at some of our fan base.

Go on then, tell me what is unreasonable in that lot.

[RedRock]

1 hour ago, Dr Balls said:

Discussed on Saturday that our biggest loss recently in terms of personnel wasn’t even necessarily Nige, it was Richard Gould. The lack of a proper CEO is really what’s killing us, because basically all the footballing decisions at the club are now between just Jon Lansdown and Brian Tinnion. If that doesn’t worry you about the state of the club, nothing will!

Yep. Agree.

The problem is the Lansdown’s are nice people, really nice. Probably too nice for the cut throat, cheating football world.

In business Steve was complemented by some northern ‘grit’ (think I spelt that correctly) and the chemistry worked. Problem has been the Lansdown’s have managed the Club more with their heart rather than head and their management personas haven’t been counter balanced by some ‘grit’. The nearest they got was managers in Cotts and Nige.. but of whom became too uncomfortable for them to manage. 

Gould was a perfect foil for SL, a rare combination of a decent chap with added steel. Don’t think many could pull the wool over his eyes. His only possible lacking was football expertise. We need someone similar, and if we can’t get the football expertise with the other attributes, any new CEO needs to appoint someone who can add that to the top table… with particular responsibility for first team signings and overseeing the medical side. 
 

I really worry with Jon, Tins and Manning we are going to revert to ‘soft, nice, comfortable’ Bristol City, the Club DNA Nige fought so hard to erase. 

 

Edited March 11 by RedRock

[WeAreThePigs]

Just now, Numero Uno said:

Go on then, tell me what is unreasonable in that lot.

So we beat Leicester and West Brom but only pick up 5 points from the above, therefore he should be sacked - nonsense. We sell 12800 STs he should be sacked - more nonsense. I mean why would you even post this other than looking for attention, part of the “look at me brigade”. oh and before you ask NP should never have been sacked and LM has been a disappointment, no doubts about that….but your linear points aren’t reflected in reality, which I’m sure you know already.
 

[TonyTonyTony]

37 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

16 points is a big ask but not an impossible one and, after a run of generally poor form since Christmas, it would take that sort of return for me to genuinely go into next season with confidence. 

16 points from the remaining 9 is exactly, to my mind, the target to be given to him. Its a stretch, but as you have already indicated certainly far from impossible with the teams we have to play. 100% spot on.

BTW a return of 63 points would be our 3rd best points total since 15/16. 

Unfortunately, once we get over 50 points i can see things fizzling out, as the players start thinking about being on the beach.

[Numero Uno]

24 minutes ago, WeAreThePigs said:

So we beat Leicester and West Brom but only pick up 5 points from the above, therefore he should be sacked - nonsense. We sell 12800 STs he should be sacked - more nonsense. I mean why would you even post this other than looking for attention, part of the “look at me brigade”. oh and before you ask NP should never have been sacked and LM has been a disappointment, no doubts about that….but your linear points aren’t reflected in reality, which I’m sure you know already.
 

If we sell 12,800 season tickets too right he should be fired. 100%. It's a forum, a place to post your opinions. As you and your crowd are fond of saying "if you don't like it move on past". Ironic that your mob are always bellyaching about attacking the poster too................

[redkev]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

The person I meet at the ground is done, confirmed it yesterday and buggered off literally five minutes after half time he was that pissed off with it!! I do fear, for the first time in years where we have had had empty threats, that people will follow through with their threats not to renew on this occasion.

My lad who watches city every home game and many away games been going for 30 years lasted 37 mins said it was absolutely shocking , few of his mates who he always goes with didn’t even bother , I seriously think people have had enough , firstly pissed off with the Nige sacking but then ok let’s give manning a chance ( not his fault Nige got sacked ) but I’m afraid with his brand of football / personality it doesn’t fit Bristol city , has he become the modern day Tony Pulis at the gate , certainly going that way 

[Marv Smyth]

Accountability:  Like many, I am now completely ignoring the pre and post match pressers, the poor questions and LM’s responses, make them very difficult to listen too.

I do think that, pre and post match, he needs to demonstrate greater accountability, because win or lose, he is at least jointly accountable for the performance, and this needs to start right now, otherwise he risks losing the Fans and (possibly) the players.

Results:  Separately, as ashton_fan said, with a few exceptions, home performances have been dire for a while (both prior to and post LM coming on board).

I don’t blame him, for how the club dealt with NP/ or how they appointed him, but he was recruited to realise certain goals (improvement/ top six/ better style of play/ more points than last season/ whatever) - so our results need to improve, but I think he needs (and will get) the summer to try and achieve that. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Travis said:

How long would a replacement get 22 League Games as well?

Half a season is plenty long enough to get a decent feel.

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

Xg is fine to quote but what isn't represented is Quality of shot.

By my models, non-penalty xg has gone from 0.1003 (10% per chance) to 0.0776 (7.8% per chance).

[mozo]

3 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

I hear a lot of comments saying "he needs more time", "what can he do with these players" (despite being brought in to improve "these players") plus some complete and utter dribbling mess by the Tekkers Dictator about everyone being happy after Southampton etc. etc. Surely there has to be a common ground of targets that he needs to hit WITH THESE PLAYERS over the last nine games otherwise the club need to be ruthless and say thanks Liam but you ain't doing it and we can't risk giving you £6m and failing. For me:

MINIMUM 59 Points (same as last season)

Two wins MINIMUM out of Huddersfield, Blackburn and Rotherham

A MINIMUM of five of our remaining nine games where people come away generally having enjoyed the football on offer

13K MINIMUM Season Tickets Sold (otherwise it's clear too many fans aren't on board with him)

Anything less than the above and I think it's fair to fire him. Anything unfair in the above?

I suspect you haven't enjoyed some of my posts on the matter 

The problem with this...

A MINIMUM of five of our remaining nine games where people come away generally having enjoyed the football on offer

...is it's completely subjective, and impossible to measure. 

 

[Targeted by Mods]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Half a season is plenty long enough to get a decent feel.

By my models, non-penalty xg has gone from 0.1003 (10% per chance) to 0.0776 (7.8% per chance).

Rubbish that is a Sunderland Basket Case Method.

[Numero Uno]

17 minutes ago, redkev said:

My lad who watches city every home game and many away games been going for 30 years lasted 37 mins said it was absolutely shocking , few of his mates who he always goes with didn’t even bother , I seriously think people have had enough , firstly pissed off with the Nige sacking but then ok let’s give manning a chance ( not his fault Nige got sacked ) but I’m afraid with his brand of football / personality it doesn’t fit Bristol city , has he become the modern day Tony Pulis at the gate , certainly going that way 

I often hear that this forum isn't representative of the fanbase, that it's just a few negative moaners. Plenty of people who don't use this forum have had enough. I got a text halfway through the game from my lad, who is not Bristol based, and he turned off the City game and put on Villa v Spurs instead. He thought we played well generally on Tuesday but turned round and said "no way I can sit and watch that". The reaction to going backwards, the reaction at half time, the thousands of empty seats that would not have been empty if we we were in a play off place at 12:30pm yesterday, it's not 100 negative keyboard warriors getting pissed off, it's a large section of a fanbase (too large).

Edited March 11 by Numero Uno

[TheJudge07]

Manning is currently not the right fit for the group of players we have unless he is prepared to change his style or the board are going to give him some serious money in the summer to get the players. His record is relegation form, albeit he has had some good individual results too. The statistics would show that we have generally regressed since he took over. There has certainly been no managerial bounce leading to better outcomes, as suggested by the Board. I am also concerned that our attacking play has not really improved at all. Sure, Twine would have helped that, but we are always going to have injuries and a good manager has different plans in place. The injury situation has not improved and this really needs to be looked at. We have so many players with serious injuries.  I suspect the board will ultimately back Manning and then he is going to be under severe pressure if performances do not improve by the Autumn. It seems like we are starting again really and there will either be short term pain leading to improvement or pain leading to a relegation battle next season. Personally, I always felt it was difficult to change the style of a team mid-season unless you have the players to do it and we do not. 

Edited March 11 by TheJudge07

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, mozo said:

I suspect you haven't enjoyed some of my posts on the matter 

The problem with this...

A MINIMUM of five of our remaining nine games where people come away generally having enjoyed the football on offer

...is it's completely subjective, and impossible to measure. 

 

No problem with your posts at all. I've got no problem disagreeing with reasonable people. Get your point on enjoyment but the mood around the fanbase generally will be a reasonable indicator. The jist of it is we can't keep watching the likes of the last three home games.

[ExiledAjax]

27 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

BTW a return of 63 points would be our 3rd best points total since 15/16. 

And notably, would be only 1 point short of the 64 that Pearson himself says he left us "on course to finish on" (source: Pearson's own website)

I've given my feedback on this target, but if we did get 16 from these final games, it would be interesting to see if the attitude of fans changed. 

[ExiledAjax]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

By my models, non-penalty xg has gone from 0.1003 (10% per chance) to 0.0776 (7.8% per chance).

Hence my target is to see it up at 0.9 over the next 9 games. Would show improvement and is achievable.

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Don't forget "Gav" the clown who said we were looking to get promoted this season............................

Who’s he when he’s at home? 

[Numero Uno]

Just now, Major Isewater said:

Who’s he when he’s at home? 

Gavin Marshall. I don't know "what" he is but he's on the Board.

[WeAreThePigs]

28 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

If we sell 12,800 season tickets too right he should be fired. 100%. It's a forum, a place to post your opinions. As you and your crowd are fond of saying "if you don't like it move on past". Ironic that your mob are always bellyaching about attacking the poster too................

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, I just think it’s a pretty desperate take.

[One Team]

16 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I often hear that this forum isn't representative of the fanbase, that it's just a few negative moaners. Plenty of people who don't use this forum have had enough. I got a text halfway through the game from my lad, who is not Bristol based, and he turned off the City game and put on Villa v Spurs instead. He thought we played well generally on Tuesday but turned round and said "no way I can sit and watch that". The reaction to going backwards, the reaction at half time, the thousands of empty seats that would not have been empty if we we were in a play off place at 12:30pm yesterday, it's not 100 negative keyboard warriors getting pissed off, it's a large section of a fanbase (too large).

I completely agree. The only place I hear anything positive said about things at the moment is on OTIB. Well, that and Sound of the City! 

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Who’s he when he’s at home? 

His official title is Bristol Sport Group CEO. But he is also on the board of all of the Bristol Sport companies, including all four companies that comprise Bristol City Football Club.

Just now, Numero Uno said:

Gavin Marshall. I don't know "what" he is but he's on the Board.

Someone has to keep Jon entertained.

[Numero Uno]

Just now, WeAreThePigs said:

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, I just think it’s a pretty desperate take.

Not gonna go backwards and forwards all day, as we'll never agree, but I would imagine there will be a figure on season ticket sales where Bristol Sport will turn round and say "we can't have that". It might not be my figure...............

[W-S-M Seagull]

The minimum expectation for me this season was for us to finish less than 10 points off the play offs. I see absolutely no reason why I should change that expectation. 

[Super]

3 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

I hear a lot of comments saying "he needs more time", "what can he do with these players" (despite being brought in to improve "these players") plus some complete and utter dribbling mess by the Tekkers Dictator about everyone being happy after Southampton etc. etc. Surely there has to be a common ground of targets that he needs to hit WITH THESE PLAYERS over the last nine games otherwise the club need to be ruthless and say thanks Liam but you ain't doing it and we can't risk giving you £6m and failing. For me:

MINIMUM 59 Points (same as last season)

Two wins MINIMUM out of Huddersfield, Blackburn and Rotherham

A MINIMUM of five of our remaining nine games where people come away generally having enjoyed the football on offer

13K MINIMUM Season Tickets Sold (otherwise it's clear too many fans aren't on board with him)

Anything less than the above and I think it's fair to fire him. Anything unfair in the above?

Lots will be put off by the lack of saturday football next season.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Travis said:

Rubbish that is a Sunderland Basket Case Method.

If you choose the wrong bloke in the first place, don’t double down on it and extend his stay!  This is business, this is supposed to be a professional football club!

[Targeted by Mods]

Just now, Davefevs said:

If you choose the wrong bloke in the first place, don’t double down on it and extend his stay!  This is business, this is supposed to be a professional football club!

Who is extending? he has only been here half a season and had one transfer window

[WeAreThePigs]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

Not gonna go backwards and forwards all day, as we'll never agree, but I would imagine there will be a figure on season ticket sales where Bristol Sport will turn round and say "we can't have that". It might not be my figure...............

There may be a figure, I just found it strange that you were so linear with your expectations, it just doesn’t work that way. 

[The Original OTIB]

1 hour ago, TheJudge07 said:

Manning is currently not the right fit for the group of players we have unless he is prepared to change his style or the board are going to give him some serious money in the summer to get the players. His record is relegation form, albeit he has had some good individual results too. The statistics would show that we have generally regressed since he took over. There has certainly been no managerial bounce leading to better outcomes, as suggested by the Board. I am also concerned that our attacking play has not really improved at all. Sure, Twine would have helped that, but we are always going to have injuries and a good manager has different plans in place. The injury situation has not improved and this really needs to be looked at. We have so many players with serious injuries.  I suspect the board will ultimately back Manning and then he is going to be under severe pressure if performances do not improve by the Autumn. It seems like we are starting again really and there will either be short term pain leading to improvement or pain leading to a relegation battle next season. Personally, I always felt it was difficult to change the style of a team mid-season unless you have the players to do it and we do not. 

He thought he was right when he came in, tbought the squad was good and the balance good.

[Galley is our king]

2 hours ago, WeAreThePigs said:

I despair at some of our fan base.

Wow, you have made that conclusion considering you only joined last week?

 

Amazing...

[Silvio Dante]

2 hours ago, WeAreThePigs said:

So we beat Leicester and West Brom but only pick up 5 points from the above, therefore he should be sacked - nonsense. We sell 12800 STs he should be sacked - more nonsense. I mean why would you even post this other than looking for attention, part of the “look at me brigade”. oh and before you ask NP should never have been sacked and LM has been a disappointment, no doubts about that….but your linear points aren’t reflected in reality, which I’m sure you know already.
 

To be fair, this is why I’ve said I’d rather see performance over results - and I’d acknowledge that is totally in the eye of the beholder. The unlikely scenario of 9 games of the nature of yesterday may give more points than mooted but also continue questions over the nature of the football.

I said a few weeks back that I saw things as a bit of an extended pre season with not going up or down and as a result I wanted to see signs we were going somewhere, irrespective of results in a large part. Ironically that was borne out yesterday where despite a win the concerns have been over the overall direction and what looks like further regression quality wise.

Prefacing that I do think his time is up, if it isn’t I’d rather see, say, 10 points from 9 games with linear improvement in performance (including game management) than 13 points from 9 and a load of poor performances (that’s where I think @ExiledAjax and his metrics do make some sense)

And like it or not, ST sales will focus the mind. Maybe not 12800 as opposed to 13000 but there will be a tipping point for the board.

But it’s not a “look at me” post - it’s a genuine discussion as to what the metrics may be and the fact it’s got traction confirms that.