Fair Targets for Manning

[Fuber]

6 hours ago, Travis said:

How long would a replacement get 22 League Games as well?

Worked for Millwall sacking Edwards, so far.

And Wednesday replacing Xisco with Rohl.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Worked for Millwall sacking Edwards, so far.

And Wednesday replacing Xisco with Rohl.

Mowbray pre health issues steadied the ship at Birmingham too.

[Fuber]

2 minutes ago, WeAreThePigs said:

I’m not trying to be rude but do I really need to explain this? They are saying that we need a minimum of 6 points against those 3 games or he deserves the sack - I’m saying what happens if he wins against Lei/WBR and then picks 5 points up? That he should be sacked? I mean I’m pretty suprised I have to explain this but it evidences why his post  is so flawed. 

He's not referenced WBA or Leicester as I think he's ignoring the idea of us picking up anything against them. I'm of the same mind being frank.

If we get anything pretty sure @Numero Uno viewpoint would shift slightly. But say we draw against both, doubt then losing all three of the aforementioned fixtures around us alleviates any pressure on Manning. Appreciate the optimism of thinking we'll get diddly out of Leicester and WBA though, wish I was as optimistic.

[WeAreThePigs]

Just now, Fuber said:

He's not referenced WBA or Leicester as I think he's ignoring the idea of us picking up anything against them. I'm of the same mind being frank.

If we get anything pretty sure @Numero Uno viewpoint would shift slightly. But say we draw against both, doubt then losing all three of the aforementioned fixtures around us alleviates any pressure on Manning. Appreciate the optimism of thinking we'll get diddly out of Leicester and WBA though, wish I was as optimistic.

Thanks for confirming my point - yes the points total would shift, which is why the initial post is nonsense in the first place. 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

Ok look it's all not good at mo but nothing seems to make sense.

NP sacked for not getting more out of a top 6 squad (as stated by our numpty's in control). LM installed to follow JL & BT vision of front foot football. Which LM is not achieving and the excuse or reading is the players cannot understand, play, or are not good enough to play manning ball. So if Manning is to stay and Manning ball is the conceived path to the premiership which players need to go and who would be signed who are capable of successful playing manning ball to lead us the premiership?

Seems to me the NP squad that was stated as top 6 but in the hands of LM is not too 6 ready. 

So ..................... 

I have no idea any more. It makes no sense 

But I red till I dead so COYR

[Fuber]

Just now, WeAreThePigs said:

Thanks for confirming my point - yes the points total would shift, which is why the initial post is nonsense in the first place. 

View point would shift more the point. But as I said, I don't think, for example, beating WBA and drawing Leicester would help Mannings case when the point of the orignal post was a minimum of two wins, and at least five good performances (indicating separate of any result).

So hypothetically, say we win at WBA, drawing Leicester; but then go onto draw at Rotherham and lose the rest of our games this season - what then? The post isn't nonsense - it's questioning what the goals should be to end of season now we're ultimately 95% safe of relegation.

[WeAreThePigs]

Just now, Fuber said:

View point would shift more the point. But as I said, I don't think, for example, beating WBA and drawing Leicester would help Mannings case when the point of the orignal post was a minimum of two wins, and at least five good performances (indicating separate of any result).

So hypothetically, say we win at WBA, drawing Leicester; but then go onto draw at Rotherham and lose the rest of our games this season - what then? The post isn't nonsense - it's questioning what the goals should be to end of season now we're ultimately 95% safe of relegation.

Tbh you did just say it things would shift which I’m glad emphasises my point - all this “what ifs” you mention, I really don’t find interesting, and pretty pointless, sorry. 

[Out of his pie crust]

8 hours ago, SecretSam said:

Bizarrely, if I move to Bristol I might be tempted to get a ST for the first time 

Good on you. Go for it

[Fuber]

3 minutes ago, WeAreThePigs said:

Tbh you did just say it things would shift which I’m glad emphasises my point - all this “what ifs” you mention, I really don’t find interesting, and pretty pointless, sorry. 

But your point about "win at Leciester/WBA hasnt been addressed" or thereof is literally a what if....

The entire point of this thread is a what if.

Viewpoints being discussed on prospective results is literal all hypothetical, I've said viewpoints could change to the better if we pick up unexpected points - but you've not addressed what happens in the opposite scenario, and brushed it off with 'all this “what ifs” you mention, I really don’t find interesting, and pretty pointless', you're just avoiding the crux of the argument that this entire thread asks.

[Kingswood Robin]

For those making a fresh start, setting achievable goals is one of the steps towards overcoming insecurity.

[JoeAman08]

I think he will be good with some be faces. Our attack is dreadful. Disagree it is all tactical that the strikers don’t score more. They get no tap ins whatsoever. Service is from Knight Bell Cornick and Mehmeti. None of them can beat a man to the byline and cut back for someone. My opinion anyway. We need two wide players. 
 

LM has also tried different set ups. I think we have good players but few compliment each other. I am happy with the back 4 and keeper. We need to be better technically and athletically in front of them. 
 

So for me, get to safety. Idk 52/53 points should do it at most. Isn’t pretty to look at but still think there will be 3 teams in the 40s point wise come end of season. 
 

Want him to experiment a bit more with players that will be here or could be here. Drop Knight a bit deeper with TGH. Get Twine behind the striker. Get Medube 4-5 games in a row. Poor or not just see how we look so we can make informed decisions in the summer. 

Without a Pearson/Manning argument, we are likely outside the playoffs regardless. Both would need funding this summer. Think NP did a good job rebuilding the back and he probably viewed team building that way. Back to front. Now let LM build the middle to front in his mould and judge him on that. 

 2 wide players and a striker. That is on top of bringing Twine in who I think is needed. Keep SPH around next year and let him battle with a new striker and wells. I would explore deals for Mehmeti, Cornick and Conway. Open to resigning James if he wants on top of bringing in Bird. 
 

I think performances will pick up with Sykes back to full fitness and Twine back. Rightly or wrongly players will probably feel not much to play for. Performances often drop this time of year. I think strong character to win that game Sunday from what I have heard and read about the atmosphere. I think if we had a quiet board it wouldn’t be so hostile. It is unfair on anyone calling it a top 6 squad. 2-3 good starting players away from even really being considered. We just get drip fed how good these players are when, especially up front, they are not.  
 

 

[Out of his pie crust]

7 hours ago, Travis said:

Judging by some of the forum "veterans" anything less than 138 points next year is failure

Shanghai on 20s would be acceptable 

[Numero Uno]

59 minutes ago, WeAreThePigs said:

Thanks for confirming my point - yes the points total would shift, which is why the initial post is nonsense in the first place. 

Nah, you are missing the point. It’s not about the points it’s about Liam showing he has the nous to beat lower placed teams who are likely to still have something to play for when they rock up at the Gate. This is a massive blip on the Manning performance so far and if he shows no signs of rectifying it this season then why should anyone have more confidence he will next?

Just because YOU don’t understand something it doesn’t make it nonsense. It’s not ALL about points.

Edited March 11 by Numero Uno

[WeAreThePigs]

4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Nah, you are missing the point. It’s not about the points it’s about Liam showing he has the nous to beat lower placed teams who are likely to still have something to play for when they rock up at the Gate. This is a massive blip on the Manning performance so far and if he shows no signs of rectifying it this season then why should anyone have more confidence he will next?

Just because YOU don’t understand something it doesn’t make it nonsense. It’s not ALL about points.

It’s not about points but you bring up a points based target, you couldn’t make it up!. 

[Numero Uno]

Just now, WeAreThePigs said:

It’s not about points but you bring up a points based target, you couldn’t make it up!. 

I said it’s not ALL about points. That’s part of it and I explained the other part. If the coach has a complete inability to get results against a certain type of opposition then questions need to be asked. Misquoting people doesn’t help your argument much.

[Numero Uno]

To make it simple for those who can’t comprehend, a target of 12 points from nine games is fair imo and if he can hit that regardless of how he gets it then is he the right coach anyhow?

In addition he needs two wins against lower opponents imo in order to show us he can beat that type of opponent and that a pattern has not set in. If you want to be top end these teams need to be put to bed more often than not.

If he beats Leicester and WBA then happy days. If he fails against Blackburn, Rotherham and Huddersfield then he’s missed a target I would set him and that would be a concern for next season.

Don’t all managers have set targets to hit? Probably not at BCFC but that’s another discussion!!

[ExiledAjax]

The target is 1.54 ppg. Tinnion just made that clear.

[Numero Uno]

43 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

The target is 1.54 ppg. Tinnion just made that clear.

So anything less than 70.84 points and Sid dies on his sword then?

[Superjack]

11 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

So anything less than 70.84 points and Sid dies on his sword then?

Nah. He'll just slither down it. 

 

****.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

The target is 1.54 ppg. Tinnion just made that clear.

For next season or??

[ExiledAjax]

47 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

So anything less than 70.84 points and Sid dies on his sword then?

+

27 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

For next season or??

Wasn't the question "where do we need to be?" and the answer came "10 points better off".

If I've got that right (and I have neither a transcript nor the desire to listen again right now) then you can probably take that as both for this and next season.

Basically I take it as an explanation of the meaning of "top end challenge" or however you want to paraphrase the chat from when Pearson went. They want a points return that,  looking at historical points totals, puts us somewhere between 5th and 8th and roughly a 50/50 chance of a play off place. This season it falls short of that, but this is looking like a season with an exceptionally strong top 6.

It's actually, on reflection, not entirely unreasonable given our budget, but I understand it feels unambitious when written down or stated on a radio show.

Edited March 11 by ExiledAjax

[harvey54]

Throwing a hoop over a duck? 

[ExiledAjax]

@Mr Popodopolous. I did re listen in the end. It was for next season. I still think it shows the overall level of target.

[SecretSam]

17 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

What are you like with temptation - can you resist it?

Depends if it involves chocolate

[DaveInSA]

The only target I have is to get the idiots running the football side of this club out of it. And pronto.

[Numero Uno]

On 11/03/2024 at 08:29, Numero Uno said:

MINIMUM 59 Points (same as last season) You would like to think we will go from 57 to at least 59 in the last three matches......

Two wins MINIMUM out of Huddersfield, Blackburn and Rotherham Beat Rotherham and that's ticked off......

A MINIMUM of five of our remaining nine games where people come away generally having enjoyed the football on offer Leicester, Plymouth and Blackburn count, West Brom doesn't, Sunderland and Huddersfield depends on whether you accept a poor performance with some kind of result.......

13K MINIMUM Season Tickets Sold (otherwise it's clear too many fans aren't on board with him) I don't think we will hit 13K personally but you could reasonably argue that is more to do with the hierarchy now than Manning.

Anything less than the above and I think it's fair to fire him. Anything unfair in the above?

Thought I would revisit this and it looks like Liam has at least got close on the targets I would have set him......

[Silvio Dante]

21 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Thought I would revisit this and it looks like Liam has at least got close on the targets I would have set him......

You can tell this thread is old - it’s Lezs 75th user ID ago (“Targeted By Mods”)

However, in the spirit of revisiting here’s what I put…

On 11/03/2024 at 09:17, Silvio Dante said:

With the caveat that I’d get rid now (I don’t think even if he gets his players it stops his fatal flaw of game management) I’m less concerned about results than I am about performance. Your third bullet is the key here because points can easily be gained by performances like yesterday and all that will happen is that regression will occur, as we’ve seen to date.

I get the points being a tangible but for me it’s broader.

The clincher for the board however will be the last point. It’s one thing us venting on a forum - it’s completely another to see people starting to rattle around a ground like yesterday.

….I think on broad terms that still meets the definition of not meeting the targets

[ExiledAjax]

On 11/03/2024 at 09:20, ExiledAjax said:

I might have been a bit harsh here and I'll give some alternative KPIs.

1. Over the final 9 games I want to see:

1.a. an average of 13 shots per game (current average is 11.5); 12 so far. Better than the 11.5, but not quite where I want it.

1.b. an average of 4 shots on target per game (current average is 3.6); 4.83. Excellent. and

1.c. average xG from open play of 0.9 per game (current average is 0.71) overall xG average is 1.38 which is very good. Take off 3 penalties and you get an average of 1.02. So success here as well so far.

2. Name a full subs bench in every game. The season's done in terms of competition, so let's blood some youngsters. Fail. I'm not sure on the bench point, but he's definitely not been blooding the youth.

3. Let's target 3 clean sheets in the final 9 games. Achieved with 3 games to spare!

As I say, this season is gone, done, all but finished, so let's focus on improving and finishing on an upward trajectory. That will lay good groundwork for whoever is in charge in 2024/25.

@Numero Uno yeh he's ticking most of your boxes isn't he.

I looked at mine as well as above.

2 ticks, one cross, one looking good, one tick so far but could drop off potentially.

Not bad really.

[KegCity]

Start of the season I felt 10th was a realistic target and a marker of progress. Considering a change in manager halfway through the season I think 11th would do, although a Preston collapse could see us reach the top 10.

[Davefevs]

This was my end of transfer window expectation.

After we’d played Coventry (a) at end of January (GW29) we had 38 points and 7 points off of 6th in 13th place.  Just below my points expectations, but I hadn’t seen the discernible playing style shining through.

My “Sack Manning” view came after Cardiff (h) (GW35) where we had 44 points and 12th points off of 6th place in 14th place.  Only 6 points off of 22nd, although I never thought we’d go down.

I wrote this on 14th March:

 

I still think results have exceeded performances, not by much, but enough.  Clean sheets against Leicester and Sunderland show that.  And a stuffing of Blackburn with 3+ xG skews the trend a little, but ultimately, I think LM’s impact on our football has been unimpressive.  I’ve been hugely disappointed with his inability to improve us in build-up phases, and results have been gained through winning the ball high up or counterattacking.  We are no longer efficient from set-pieces.  I think he’s missed a real trick in not pressing higher and harder, because he is risk averse.  And that bears out in other aspects too.  He wants a structured game, because he can analyse that.  He knows how to react to that.

So recent results haven’t changed my mind.  Because there is no noticeable method / style / identity, there is no willingness for City to influence.  I’d hoped Leicester and to some extent Plymouth were the new norm.  They weren’t.