BBC explains City yoof policy

[Kid in the Riot]

Just now, Open End Numb Legs said:

I am going to err on the side of positivity here and say that most pro success stories depend on a player moving around a bit to other clubs whether on loan or permanent moves. It is part of how they develop and mature as players and people.

 

They're definitely still big success stories that we can claim, I'd just say the academy assisted their development rather than "produced" them as such. 

[E.G.Red]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The Youth stuff I'm absolutely happy with.

It is all the other stuff that is a big issue atm but there is a certain pride to seeing multiple young or not quite so young but still Academy based in and around the first team at a decent level.

But for all the bigging up of the youth set up, I still don't understand why we don't have them on the bench when we can't provide a full bench of first team subs. Other than playing that's the closest these young players can get to the first team and the warm up/match day experience home & away.

[Numero Uno]

41 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I would expect that the wages paid to youth products will be lower as well. Win win!  All we lose is experience and know how, and that has to be bought in.

If you have the experience in the building you can bring the Academy lads through which is what I think you are saying? You can even win football matches whilst that is happening.

The alternative Buy to Sell Strategy is literally the WORST OF BOTH WORLDS in my view. On one hand you are blocking player pathways from the Academy and on the other you are signing players who don't have here and now the experience to compensate for that. You have people still learning at a tough level who have played 75 games more, that's all. The days of an Alex Scott coming along will be even fewer and further between. You won't even get a Tommy Conway or a Sam Bell as often. The reason Nige called the policy bonkers is that it is a strategy that costs significant wedge in the long run, far more than the cost of a Cat 1 Academy which can also be offset against FFFP,  and might get you to the Premiership once every 50 seasons at best. It's hit and hope, shit or bust, Laurel and Hardy......you get the drift........

What is wrong with a strategy that aims for the Academy to be the priority where possible, supplemented by experienced and quality heads at the level, and allows the odd Buy to Sell merchant to be acquired where your scouting has identified it would be stupid not to? Isn't that more balanced? Got to be better than bringing in players left right and centre, loaning them back to their clubs, and hoping they hit the ground running for a manager who is "flapping" next season? All this whilst older Academy players are thinking "no chances for me then". This is no more than a "latest cunning plan".

[TV Tom]

13 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

They're definitely still big success stories that we can claim, I'd just say the academy assisted their development rather than "produced" them as such. 

Exactly this, whether these players joined the club as 6 year olds or 16 years old makes no difference, they all signed their first professional contracts with us and all had their first taste of league football with us so all came through the ranks with us in one way or another which is something the club should be proud of, not sure why some people are trying to pick holes in what is a positive article

[W-S-M Seagull]

Ironically this is much lower than it would have been had Pearson remained in situ. 

 

Of the 38 Championship games Bristol City have played this season, almost 30% of the minutes have been played by homegrown players.

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Ironically this is much lower than it would have been had Pearson remained in situ. 

 

Of the 38 Championship games Bristol City have played this season, almost 30% of the minutes have been played by homegrown players.

What do you think it would have been?  Any idea what it was when he left ? 

[View from the Dolman]

2 hours ago, Henry said:

It says we want to be a Cat 1 academy but both Jon Lansdown and Tinnion have said we haven’t. They just get a consistent message on anything.

I read that differently. 

"The academy is graded category two by the Football Association but Challis says they strive towards a "category one performance"."

I took as meaning the club aim to hit Category One performance levels without needing to have the Category One certificate on the wall in the same way that  I can aim to rustle up a Michelin standard meal tonight but I don't need the sign at the door to hit that standard. 

 

[IAmNick]

40 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Completely agree.  Who has actually came through the academy and either played a lot of games or been sold for good money?

O’Leary

Kelly

Bryan

Reid

Vyner

Cant think of anyone else.  Is 5 a good return over the period of Tinnion’s involvement? Hard to say 

I guess it depends whether you consider a player who doesn't make it at our level or with us but goes on to have a decent league career (Morell for example, or dare I say Wes Burns...) or not.

It's about the vision/purpose of the academy. Is it to ultimately earn money, or to create good quality football players... And the money is a nice extra? Why do you reckon the coaches and staff get out of bed in the morning? I doubt they really care about how much city might earn in 8 years time from the lads they work with.

With the Scott/Semenyo group we didn't get from 8 years old or whatever I think it's a balance. We still signed them (many others will have looked and passed on them) and developed them for a few years. They're not an A+ for the academy, but they deserve some kind of score surely?

If another team took them after we passed up we'd be saying why don't we have those contacts, why aren't we scouting and finding those players etc... We can't have it both ways.

Edited March 23 by IAmNick

[Harry]

Credit must be given to Sean O’Driscoll and Amy Kington for getting the Cat 2 status in the first place. That was the foundation of what we see now. 
Amy led the whole project for the initial Cat 2 application and audit. SOD (although much maligned) helped massively with this too with significant input. 
Amy’s comments in the video below tell you exactly how we got to where we are today. The work put into this 11-12 years ago is what we are seeing the fruition of now. 
Yes, Tinnion then later became responsible for the pathway between 18’s and 21’s to the first team, but the foundation was very much credited to Amy and her team (with the help of SOD too)  

apologies for Jonboy on the vid too!! 

 

 

[And Its Smith]

2 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I guess it depends whether you consider a player who doesn't make it at our level or with us but goes on to have a decent league career (Morell for example, or dare I say Wes Burns...) or not.

With the Scott/Semenyo group we didn't get from 8 years old or whatever I think it's a balance. We still signed them (many others will have looked and passed on them) and developed them for a few years. They're not an A+ for the academy, but they deserve some kind of score surely?

If another team took them after we passed up we'd be saying why don't we have those contacts, why aren't we scouting and finding those players etc... We can't have it both ways.

All fair points and agree with them. 

[Robbored]

2 hours ago, redsquirrel said:

if that was the case, they should have made him assistant td under someone who knows what they are doing so he could learn from it before jumping into the deep end

BT has been at City 25 years as player, manager and in the academy set up. Within those years he’s clearly done a decent job apart from when he was appointed manager - which he’s freely admitted was a mistake.

His dedication and skills are obviously well respected by the Lansdowns and his elevation to a more senior position is well deserved.

That said……whether he’s actually up to the role - only time will tell.

[TV Tom]

28 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Ironically this is much lower than it would have been had Pearson remained in situ. 

 

Of the 38 Championship games Bristol City have played this season, almost 30% of the minutes have been played by homegrown players.

How do you come to that conclusion?

[TV Tom]

17 minutes ago, Harry said:

Credit must be given to Sean O’Driscoll and Amy Kington for getting the Cat 2 status in the first place. That was the foundation of what we see now. 
Amy led the whole project for the initial Cat 2 application and audit. SOD (although much maligned) helped massively with this too with significant input. 
Amy’s comments in the video below tell you exactly how we got to where we are today. The work put into this 11-12 years ago is what we are seeing the fruition of now. 
Yes, Tinnion then later became responsible for the pathway between 18’s and 21’s to the first team, but the foundation was very much credited to Amy and her team (with the help of SOD too)  

apologies for Jonboy on the vid too!! 

 

 

Personally I think O’Driscoll should take a lot of credit, if anyone inherited a shambles of a team it was him, he laid the foundations for our double season with some excellent signings

[GrahamC]

3 hours ago, Fuber said:

They could have easily run this same piece with Blackburn.

Just 'happens' to be a focus on us, written by the BBC editorial author for the West of England (Sophie Hurcom covers some of our game write ups) who happens to have contact with the club via BBC Bristol.

It's a fluff piece. About the one topic I don't doubt Tinnion's knowledge of.

Ultimately doesn't mean alot when we're sliding down the table in a nothing season with Conway likely to leave for prospective pennies in the summer.

If she covers some of our games you would like to think she would notice Zak hasn’t played RB for over two years.

[W-S-M Seagull]

21 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

How do you come to that conclusion?

I'm not going to bother wasting my time explaining it to you Tom if you don't already understand it. 

[Roe]

Ah, good old propaganda

[W-S-M Seagull]

How many academy products has Manning given debuts to since he has been here? 

 

[TV Tom]

22 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'm not going to bother wasting my time explaining it to you Tom if you don't already understand it. 

Ok

[Bat Fastard]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

If you have the experience in the building you can bring the Academy lads through which is what I think you are saying? You can even win football matches whilst that is happening.

The alternative Buy to Sell Strategy is literally the WORST OF BOTH WORLDS in my view. On one hand you are blocking player pathways from the Academy and on the other you are signing players who don't have here and now the experience to compensate for that. You have people still learning at a tough level who have played 75 games more, that's all. The days of an Alex Scott coming along will be even fewer and further between. You won't even get a Tommy Conway or a Sam Bell as often. The reason Nige called the policy bonkers is that it is a strategy that costs significant wedge in the long run, far more than the cost of a Cat 1 Academy which can also be offset against FFFP,  and might get you to the Premiership once every 50 seasons at best. It's hit and hope, shit or bust, Laurel and Hardy......you get the drift........

What is wrong with a strategy that aims for the Academy to be the priority where possible, supplemented by experienced and quality heads at the level, and allows the odd Buy to Sell merchant to be acquired where your scouting has identified it would be stupid not to? Isn't that more balanced? Got to be better than bringing in players left right and centre, loaning them back to their clubs, and hoping they hit the ground running for a manager who is "flapping" next season? All this whilst older Academy players are thinking "no chances for me then". This is no more than a "latest cunning plan".

You make a good case. I guess it may help if we could secure more "free" transfers or young players from academy set ups from the Premier League, who are potentially good Championship players but not likely to cut the mustard higher up. Any strategy can work if it is well executed. Sadly we seem to run a very small squad to help with the youth policy whilst running the risk of injuries scuppering our season.  It certainly looks like we could do with a few tweaks and that may be the thinking behind recruiting potential permanent signings like Twine.

[Numero Uno]

40 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

How do you come to that conclusion?

I suppose one question is how many “new” homegrown players has Manning introduced in league matches? Add in the fact that Yeboah has been farmed out, Conway is sharing minutes with Wells, the team we had to put out at Cardiff, Bell is injured (clearly that one isn’t down to the Manager) and it would be reasonable to assume the percentage is lowering regardless of whether anyone is to blame?

Then add in the new signings that will be brought in for next season, Conway is almost certain to go, the fact that Manning would rather have seven on the bench than a couple of youth and it will be interesting to see the percentage of minutes next season. I think it will reduce significantly if he’s still here.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

Brilliant to see that BCFC are getting credit where credit is due.

Great work from Tinnion under the excellent ownership of the Lansdowns.

[redsquirrel]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

BT has been at City 25 years as player, manager and in the academy set up. Within those years he’s clearly done a decent job apart from when he was appointed manager - which he’s freely admitted was a mistake.

His dedication and skills are obviously well respected by the Lansdowns and his elevation to a more senior position is well deserved.

That said……whether he’s actually up to the role - only time will tell.

im not disputing the dedication or ( certain ) skills, what i do seriously question is putting someone in to basically run the football club with no experience of doing that. its a massive risk imo and would have been much better if the role had been given to someone who could do it but hey ho,the only ones with any experience of that got binned out

[cidered abroad]

We have been in three semi-finals of the FA Youth Cup. But as football didn't exist before the Premier League was invented by the rich and greedy, our achievements are easily forgotten.

[Superjack]

Sick of the propaganda from this club.

[Numero Uno]

25 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Brilliant to see that BCFC are getting credit where credit is due.

Great work from Tinnion under the excellent ownership of the Lansdowns.

Absolutely, credit is due for the last two and a bit seasons. The point being we had a manager prepared to accept the restrictions in place and hand these minutes out regardless of whether that led to a minority moaning about results. You can have the worlds best youth system but it only works if lads get real minutes. The concern is whether the current manager will continue to do so moving forwards because, assuming he's here in July which isn't a foregone conclusion just yet, he will need results in the first few months of next season and the hierarchy also need those results.

That will be the acid test for me - is Academy promotion STILL part of the plan or do we have a new one that involves signing numerous new players and freezing these lads out? That is a valid way of going about things BUT will then make the credit currently being lauded (correctly) redundant if we are at, say, 18% of homegrown minutes by October won't it?

The likes of Palmer-Houlden and Araoye are coming back next season but on the flip side we might well accept bids for Pring and Conway (a lot of minutes gone there). If we sign Yebude where does that leave Yeboah? Stokes, Murphy, Bird and anyone else brought in (which could effect the minutes Bell gets for example) won't be homegrown. A lot of water to go under the bridge on this particular topic, the article feels like a snapshot of what HAS happened not, by default, what will CONTINUE to happen imo, so it will be interesting to see what actually happens.

Edited March 23 by Numero Uno

[TomThumb84]

I find it a bit tragic that the club self-glorifies in basically being a feeder club to smaller, yet more successful, ambitious and well run clubs, rather than wanting to actually achieve anything here and now.

Emperors Clothes nonsense. 

[Henry]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Credit must be given to Sean O’Driscoll and Amy Kington for getting the Cat 2 status in the first place. That was the foundation of what we see now. 
Amy led the whole project for the initial Cat 2 application and audit. SOD (although much maligned) helped massively with this too with significant input. 
Amy’s comments in the video below tell you exactly how we got to where we are today. The work put into this 11-12 years ago is what we are seeing the fruition of now. 
Yes, Tinnion then later became responsible for the pathway between 18’s and 21’s to the first team, but the foundation was very much credited to Amy and her team (with the help of SOD too)  

apologies for Jonboy on the vid too!! 

 

 

Jeez, what a difference in communication (Amy, not Jon) to Tinnion or anyone else at the club.

Why was she not kept on? She’s done some really good work with young people since leaving City.

[Out of his pie crust]

5 hours ago, Monkeh said:

Alot of puff pieces coming out all of a sudden, its as if the club knows they f'd and are now running damage limitation

You want to quell the unrest instead of running puff pieces in the media do better by the fans please

 

you had me at Puffs

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Ironically this is much lower than it would have been had Pearson remained in situ. 

 

Of the 38 Championship games Bristol City have played this season, almost 30% of the minutes have been played by homegrown players.

3 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

What do you think it would have been?  Any idea what it was when he left ? 

I can’t be arsed to calculate the average, but to the eye, I’d suggest the minutes out of an available 990 (1170 v Forest) has stayed relatively the same:

Green - GK start (basically Max O’Leary!!!)

Red - outfield starter

Orange - outfield sub

Grey - unused sub

(mins played along the bottom)

When the original article was published after 16 league games, the percentage was 33.1% so won’t have changed much.

 

2 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

You make a good case. I guess it may help if we could secure more "free" transfers or young players from academy set ups from the Premier League, who are potentially good Championship players but not likely to cut the mustard higher up. Any strategy can work if it is well executed. Sadly we seem to run a very small squad to help with the youth policy whilst running the risk of injuries scuppering our season.  It certainly looks like we could do with a few tweaks and that may be the thinking behind recruiting potential permanent signings like Twine.

basically we need a couple more Haydon Roberts (free and young!), show PL academy players that they can get their chance here, rather than being a loan-pawn.

Edited March 23 by Davefevs

[And Its Smith]

24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I can’t be arsed to calculate the average, but to the eye, I’d suggest the minutes out of an available 990 (1170 v Forest) has stayed relatively the same:

Green - GK start (basically Max O’Leary!!!)

Red - outfield starter

Orange - outfield sub

Grey - unused sub

(mins played along the bottom)

When the original article was published after 16 league games, the percentage was 33.1% so won’t have changed much.

 

basically we need a couple more Haydon Roberts (free and young!), show PL academy players that they can get their chance here, rather than being a loan-pawn.

Thanks. I felt it was similar as Manning hasn’t really dropped any academy player that was playing a lot under Pearson.