Lee Trundle - Under the Cosh

[JBFC II]

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Youre taking this conversation off in a different direction. 

Staying in the premier league and earning an extra 100+ million is a success. 

The Premier league is a different beast to the Championship. 

But the reality is if you lose the Championship play off final the outcome is the same of finishing midtable, another season in the Championship. 

It's not though is it?

Would you rather we finished 15th this season or 4th but lost in the play offs? The answer is pretty obvious. 

You said yourself, 'losing is not success', therefore if Luton do stay up, considering they've lost more than they've won (while not winning any competition) this season hasn't been a success in your book?

[W-S-M Seagull]

8 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

It's not though is it?

Would you rather we finished 15th this season or 4th but lost in the play offs? The answer is pretty obvious. 

You said yourself, 'losing is not success', therefore if Luton do stay up, considering they've lost more than they've won (while not winning any competition) this season hasn't been a success in your book?

I'd like a day out at Wembley. I'd be pleased we got to the play off final but I'd not consider it a success. 

Of course I'd rather watch us win games but if the end result is achieving the same outcome as a team that finished midtable then it's not a success. 

Imagine you giving the pre match team talk "right lads, the result doesn't matter today, we've achieved success by getting to the final, today is a free hit"  

 

 

[Northern Red]

Up The City!

[JBFC II]

11 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'd like a day out at Wembley. I'd be pleased we got to the play off final but I'd not consider it a success. 

Of course I'd rather watch us win games but if the end result is achieving the same outcome as a team that finished midtable then it's not a success. 

Imagine you giving the pre match team talk "right lads, the result doesn't matter today, we've achieved success by getting to the final, today is a free hit"  

 

 

Success is relative though.

In 2007, heading in to the championship, success would have been viewed as a mid table finish. Nobody (including yourself I'm sure) went into that season thinking it would only be a success if we went up again.

It was the most successful season we've had since the very early 80s, maybe it didn't lead to anything but that's not exactly the point.

Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Let's hope you can see a successful season next year and we end up top!

[TV Tom]

3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

My recollection is having managed to get promotion with a strike force of free transfers (Jevons & Showunmi) we were shocked at the wage demand disparity with L1.

We went for 2 strikers (it might well have been Leon Best & Luke Varney, but not 100%, it was a long time ago now) & other clubs blew us out of the water & so very late in the summer we signed Trundle who was already 30 (31 that October) & had never played at that level.

He wasn’t quite good enough in truth & clearly his attitude wasn’t the best, but rather than a vanity signing I think we simply underestimated the gap.

Sensational season though, his contribution to it was minor but I’ll never forget the Palace goal.

Two crackers at home to Blackburn as well, I loved watching him play but there again I loved watching Tomlin play

[GrahamC]

3 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

Two crackers at home to Blackburn as well, I loved watching him play but there again I loved watching Tomlin play

He never scored against Blackburn, reckon you’re thinking of the game I quoted.

[TV Tom]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

He never scored against Blackburn, reckon you’re thinking of the game I quoted.

You’re probably right, first half goals kicking towards the Atyeo

[Silvio Dante]

58 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

You’re probably right, first half goals kicking towards the Atyeo

I think you’re probably thinking Scunthorpe in one of Trundles early games. IIRC he scored two at the Atyeo end that day

Edit - Just seen Grahams post per Tom referencing the same

Edited March 27 by Silvio Dante

[TV Tom]

9 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think you’re probably thinking Scunthorpe in one of Trundles early games. IIRC he scored two at the Atyeo end that day

Yes, GrahamC came back with the same stat, always thought it was Blackburn, two cracking goals 

[nebristolred]

3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

 

Imagine you giving the pre match team talk "right lads, the result doesn't matter today, we've achieved success by getting to the final, today is a free hit"  

 

 

That's daft though, it's not what any of us would actually say in that situation though is it? We're talking with hindsight, and based on the perceived aims of the club at the start of the year.

At the end of the day everyone here is on about relative success (which is what success is to most people 90% of the time). You're just sticking to your guns that success is absolute which is fine, if that's really how you want to see it.

To most of us, if you are predicted 22nd and finish 4th, and you end up better off talent-wise and financially, with a better platform for the next year, that's a success. Progression can be success. It doesn't mean you're any less ambitious.

Edited March 27 by nebristolred

[TV Tom]

41 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

That's daft though, it's not what any of us would actually say in that situation though is it? We're talking with hindsight, and based on the perceived aims of the club at the start of the year.

At the end of the day everyone here is on about relative success (which is what success is to most people 90% of the time). You're just sticking to your guns that success is absolute which is fine, if that's really how you want to see it.

To most of us, if you are predicted 22nd and finish 4th, and you end up better off talent-wise and financially, with a better platform for the next year, that's a success. Progression can be success. It doesn't mean you're any less ambitious.

I wouldn’t waste your time with this guy if I were you

[Shauntaylor85]

10 hours ago, GrahamC said:

My recollection is having managed to get promotion with a strike force of free transfers (Jevons & Showunmi) we were shocked at the wage demand disparity with L1.

We went for 2 strikers (it might well have been Leon Best & Luke Varney, but not 100%, it was a long time ago now) & other clubs blew us out of the water & so very late in the summer we signed Trundle who was already 30 (31 that October) & had never played at that level.

He wasn’t quite good enough in truth & clearly his attitude wasn’t the best, but rather than a vanity signing I think we simply underestimated the gap.

Sensational season though, his contribution to it was minor but I’ll never forget the Palace goal.

The bizzare thing about the GJ side is we were not free flowing or good to watch in either season. Basso was the core reason for the play off run, when GJ fell out with him the wheels came off. Basso has to be the most inspirational player at AG in the past 20 years. 

[Fredford89]

39 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

The bizzare thing about the GJ side is we were not free flowing or good to watch in either season. Basso was the core reason for the play off run, when GJ fell out with him the wheels came off. Basso has to be the most inspirational player at AG in the past 20 years. 

It amazes me how some of you can just ignore Gary’s achievements! We were in League 1 for 8 seasons from 1999-2007 Gary took us up in 1 full season and to within 1game of the Premier League and I can not be told different that if Jamie Mcombe played that day we would be a talking about statues of Gary Johnson in the City centre! Mcombe had already scored a winning goal against Hull weeks before!

Also we were top of the League in March of that Season as well as top 3 for the majority! Stop rewriting history!

Lee Trundle was a HUGE flop for us and to even consider favouring his side of an argument against Gary as a Bristol City fan is insane in my opinion 

Edited March 28 by Fredford89

[Fredford89]

19 minutes ago, Fredford89 said:

It amazes me how some of you can just ignore Gary’s achievements! We were in League 1 for 8 seasons from 1999-2007 Gary took us up in 1 full season and to within 1game of the Premier League and I can not be told different that if Jamie Mcombe played that day we would be a talking about statues of Gary Johnson in the City centre! Mcombe had already scored a winning goal against Hull weeks before!

Also we were top of the League in March of that Season as well as top 3 for the majority! Stop rewriting history!

Lee Trundle was a HUGE flop for us and to even consider favouring his side of an argument against Gary as a Bristol City fan is insane in my opinion 

Added to this point on the 21st of February 2009 the following season we were 4th following a fantastic 0-2 win at Steve Coppells recently relegated Reading Premier League side

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/7883610.stm

 

suggests no Fluke Gary had us competing! Key defender “our best player under Gary “ Louis Carey aged , Bradley Orr and Adriano Basso developed egos demanding big contracts and we could not attract the quality of attacking midfielders/ strikers needed to remain competitive! 
Gary decided to take the Peterborough job then return to Yeovil! If he was more selective with his job selection and less loyal to us he would have shaken off his unfair “conference manager “ tag our fan base labels him with

How many so called “Championship” managers can you name that mad a Play off final and finished in the top 10 twice ? Not many… then takes Yeovil up ? Any money Gary spent he deserved to spend and the preceding managers ruined his foundations

Our fan base really is frustrating 

Edited March 28 by Fredford89

[Davefevs]

@Fredford89 agree.  I wasn’t following City as closely as I do now, but GJ took us from a team that kept missing promotion from Lg1 to a team that was so, so close to getting to the PL.  He kept us in the top-10 after too.  He might’ve left a poor squad come his departure, but to question how good a manager he was for us is bonkers.  It makes no difference what he did elsewhere - although Yeovil was a pretty impressive achievement - for City he did better than anyone since Dicks.  So what if he lacked a few “attributes”, he got his team’s playing winning football.

[TDarwall]

This thread just demonstrates to me that some people can't see beyond their bias when it comes to a manager.  How anyone can doubt GJ's achievements here is extraordinary- other than Dicks he's outperformed every managed we've had in my lifetime.

Clearly he wasn't perfect & he was possibly better with less money yo spend, but if you consider the state we were in prior to his arrival & what he achieved; it was amazing.

Even the PO final was incredibly tight & we were at least as good as Hull that day. Had either McCombe been for or Orr not got crocked, I think we'd have won. 

 

[Fredford89]

49 minutes ago, TDarwall said:

This thread just demonstrates to me that some people can't see beyond their bias when it comes to a manager.  How anyone can doubt GJ's achievements here is extraordinary- other than Dicks he's outperformed every managed we've had in my lifetime.

Clearly he wasn't perfect & he was possibly better with less money yo spend, but if you consider the state we were in prior to his arrival & what he achieved; it was amazing.

Even the PO final was incredibly tight & we were at least as good as Hull that day. Had either McCombe been for or Orr not got crocked, I think we'd have won. 

 

Exactly and to question the brand of Football we played aswell! We were brave and  took risks with style ! As this video below proves, the following was an away game at Watford who were 2nd at the time in November or December of this season!

Freshley relegated from the Premier League with all the same players who had one them promotion from that League a year earlier! We went for them with no fear and came away with 3 points! Gary was a miracle worker 

Remains fresh in my memory as I was at every game that season and since Gary left I haven’t enjoyed a season yet! Even the Cotterill season wasn’t that enjoyable for me as we should never have been in League 1 in the first place 

Edited March 28 by Fredford89

[GrahamC]

56 minutes ago, Fredford89 said:

Exactly and to question the brand of Football we played aswell! We were brave and  took risks with style ! As this video below proves, the following was an away game at Watford who were 2nd at the time in November or December of this season!

Freshley relegated from the Premier League with all the same players who had one them promotion from that League a year earlier! We went for them with no fear and came away with 3 points! Gary was a miracle worker 

Remains fresh in my memory as I was at every game that season and since Gary left I haven’t enjoyed a season yet! Even the Cotterill season wasn’t that enjoyable for me as we should never have been in League 1 in the first place 

Remember us beating Sheff U 2-0 at AG very early in the playoff season, we were brilliant (definitely front foot, attacking football..) McIndoe & Sproule took them apart.

Absolute nonsense to say it wasn’t exciting, we completed for everything & never gave up.

Another early game at AG saw us absolutely outclassed by an excellent WBA side but we stuck in it (Marvin Elliott was superb) & Bradley Orr scored a hugely unexpected 89th minute equaliser.

Great times.

[Fredford89]

9 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Remember us beating Sheff U 2-0 at AG very early in the playoff season, we were brilliant (definitely front foot, attacking football..) McIndoe & Sproule took them apart.

Absolute nonsense to say it wasn’t exciting, we completed for everything & never gave up.

Another early game at AG saw us absolutely outclassed by an excellent WBA side but we stuck in it (Marvin Elliott was superb) & Bradley Orr scored a hugely unexpected 89th minute equaliser.

Great times.

Exactly we didn’t win 4 or 5-0 but we played passing forward thinking football we were always a goal threat under Johnson even with Adebola in the team, Adebola was quality for us IMO probably got his best spell of his career people described him as a lump yet have a Trundle love in 

[bearded_red]

20 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Remember us beating Sheff U 2-0 at AG very early in the playoff season, we were brilliant (definitely front foot, attacking football..) McIndoe & Sproule took them apart.

Still to this day probably the best I think I’ve seen us play at this level, absolutely incredible performance.

As you say, that WBA draw was an absolutely brilliant game of football as well.

[Fredford89]

4 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

Still to this day probably the best I think I’ve seen us play at this level, absolutely incredible performance.

As you say, that WBA draw was an absolutely brilliant game of football as well.

Glad to see some City fans remember the good times ! I’d have Johnson back in a heartbeat as an impact appoint look at what Warnock still achieves in 2 seasons at Rotherham, Cardiff 

[Selred]

19 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Of course I'd rather watch us win games but if the end result is achieving the same outcome as a team that finished midtable then it's not a success. 

 

The two play off legs vs Palace, memories for generations. Being one game away from the Premier League, a famous day out.

Give me that over this season where frankly I don't care about any of our games anymore.

[NickJ]

On 26/03/2024 at 08:55, Kid in the Riot said:

 

If we're looking at who maximised the potential of their careers, then let's not forget Gary made the most of his, but there's a reason Lee Trundle certainly didn't. 

To be fair Will, I don't think Trundle has any regrets, he enjoyed his career in his own way.

On 27/03/2024 at 08:59, spudski said:

I enjoyed watching that. 

For all the ' negatives' mentioned by Trundle about GJ in his time here, it's worth noting how many times Trundle mentioned that he was wrong in his reaction to GJ, and that he should have dealt with the situation differently. 

 

Not sure that Trundle said he was wrong, unless I missed any of it he said GJ's man management of a certain type of player - Trundle, Noble - was awful, but fair play to him he got results.

 

On 27/03/2024 at 12:52, Robbored said:

I would definitely dispute it.

Of all the players I spoke with during GJs reign not one had anything positive to say about him. Much of that was down to nepotism and LJ starting ahead of far better players and GJ running the club like a family corner shop.

RR gets a lot of stick but to be fair I thought it was common knowledge that players were unhappy with the nepotism - LJ played ahead of Skuse, Noble and even Hartley FFS - and ultimately isn't that what led to the half time incident at Plymouth?

The family corner shop comparison isn't unfair either, apart from the huge controversy caused with his son, and a brother as chief scout, I was told by an academy coach at the time that GJ wanted to bring another brother in, who at the time was managing the equivalent of a Somerest county league team.

 

22 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

 things had turned toxic. 

 

As manifested by he Plymouth incident?

 

4 hours ago, Fredford89 said:

Exactly and to question the brand of Football we played aswell! We were brave and  took risks with style ! As this video below proves, the following was an away game at Watford who were 2nd at the time in November or December of this season!

Freshley relegated from the Premier League with all the same players who had one them promotion from that League a year earlier! We went for them with no fear and came away with 3 points! Gary was a miracle worker 

Remains fresh in my memory as I was at every game that season and since Gary left I haven’t enjoyed a season yet! Even the Cotterill season wasn’t that enjoyable for me as we should never have been in League 1 in the first place 

Dont get me wrong Mr/Mrs Johnson, I hugely enjoyed Gary's time here despite my frustration with the LJ situation, but I also went to every game that season, home and away, with the exception of Burnley away as I was abroad, and in general we didn't take risks, quite the opposite. Nevertheless I agree it was an enjoyable season, simply due to the success. But to suggest the Cotterill season wasn't that enjoyable, that's just plain daft, did you actually go to any games while he was manager?!

In my opinion, Gary probably sacrificed his own career in order to give his son one, and as a father I can understand that although not condone it. Lansdown should have dealt with that for the benefit of all except of course LJ, but in hindsight now it's fairly obvious why he didn't.

[spudski]

18 minutes ago, NickJ said:

To be fair Will, I don't think Trundle has any regrets, he enjoyed his career in his own way.

Not sure that Trundle said he was wrong, unless I missed any of it he said GJ's man management of a certain type of player - Trundle, Noble - was awful, but fair play to him he got results.

 

RR gets a lot of stick but to be fair I thought it was common knowledge that players were unhappy with the nepotism - LJ played ahead of Skuse, Noble and even Hartley FFS - and ultimately isn't that what led to the half time incident at Plymouth?

The family corner shop comparison isn't unfair either, apart from the huge controversy caused with his son, and a brother as chief scout, I was told by an academy coach at the time that GJ wanted to bring another brother in, who at the time was managing the equivalent of a Somerest county league team.

 

As manifested by he Plymouth incident?

 

Dont get me wrong Mr/Mrs Johnson, I hugely enjoyed Gary's time here despite my frustration with the LJ situation, but I also went to every game that season, home and away, with the exception of Burnley away as I was abroad, and in general we didn't take risks, quite the opposite. Nevertheless I agree it was an enjoyable season, simply due to the success. But to suggest the Cotterill season wasn't that enjoyable, that's just plain daft, did you actually go to any games while he was manager?!

In my opinion, Gary probably sacrificed his own career in order to give his son one, and as a father I can understand that although not condone it. Lansdown should have dealt with that for the benefit of all except of course LJ, but in hindsight now it's fairly obvious why he didn't.

Yes you missed it fella...he mentioned it a few times.

[Fredford89]

29 minutes ago, NickJ said:

To be fair Will, I don't think Trundle has any regrets, he enjoyed his career in his own way.

Not sure that Trundle said he was wrong, unless I missed any of it he said GJ's man management of a certain type of player - Trundle, Noble - was awful, but fair play to him he got results.

 

RR gets a lot of stick but to be fair I thought it was common knowledge that players were unhappy with the nepotism - LJ played ahead of Skuse, Noble and even Hartley FFS - and ultimately isn't that what led to the half time incident at Plymouth?

The family corner shop comparison isn't unfair either, apart from the huge controversy caused with his son, and a brother as chief scout, I was told by an academy coach at the time that GJ wanted to bring another brother in, who at the time was managing the equivalent of a Somerest county league team.

 

As manifested by he Plymouth incident?

 

Dont get me wrong Mr/Mrs Johnson, I hugely enjoyed Gary's time here despite my frustration with the LJ situation, but I also went to every game that season, home and away, with the exception of Burnley away as I was abroad, and in general we didn't take risks, quite the opposite. Nevertheless I agree it was an enjoyable season, simply due to the success. But to suggest the Cotterill season wasn't that enjoyable, that's just plain daft, did you actually go to any games while he was manager?!

In my opinion, Gary probably sacrificed his own career in order to give his son one, and as a father I can understand that although not condone it. Lansdown should have dealt with that for the benefit of all except of course LJ, but in hindsight now it's fairly obvious why he didn't.

Gary Loaned Lee out to Derby and was playing Skuse, Elliott, Hartley torwards the end, I remember the players turned on Gary he brought Lee back from Derby and played him against West Brom and we Won 2-1 Lee scored the winner!

The dressing room deserved sacking not Gary but every manager has a sale buy date unfortunately that is football, Gary should have left us after the second Championship season! He stayed long enough at our fickle club to become the villain when he’s probably the only hero we have had in decades 

 

fast forward to Gary’s interview at the end he had ambitions for our club he didn’t change I miss this 

[Fredford89]

33 minutes ago, NickJ said:

To be fair Will, I don't think Trundle has any regrets, he enjoyed his career in his own way.

Not sure that Trundle said he was wrong, unless I missed any of it he said GJ's man management of a certain type of player - Trundle, Noble - was awful, but fair play to him he got results.

 

RR gets a lot of stick but to be fair I thought it was common knowledge that players were unhappy with the nepotism - LJ played ahead of Skuse, Noble and even Hartley FFS - and ultimately isn't that what led to the half time incident at Plymouth?

The family corner shop comparison isn't unfair either, apart from the huge controversy caused with his son, and a brother as chief scout, I was told by an academy coach at the time that GJ wanted to bring another brother in, who at the time was managing the equivalent of a Somerest county league team.

 

As manifested by he Plymouth incident?

 

Dont get me wrong Mr/Mrs Johnson, I hugely enjoyed Gary's time here despite my frustration with the LJ situation, but I also went to every game that season, home and away, with the exception of Burnley away as I was abroad, and in general we didn't take risks, quite the opposite. Nevertheless I agree it was an enjoyable season, simply due to the success. But to suggest the Cotterill season wasn't that enjoyable, that's just plain daft, did you actually go to any games while he was manager?!

In my opinion, Gary probably sacrificed his own career in order to give his son one, and as a father I can understand that although not condone it. Lansdown should have dealt with that for the benefit of all except of course LJ, but in hindsight now it's fairly obvious why he didn't.

Didn’t take risks but ended up in top 2 please go back and watch some highlights of that season your completely wrong, you seem to be a statistic merchant rather than someone who attended games, we were brave on the ball and tried to win every game, our best players and the core of our team was dissembled , Carey old age , Orr, Basso, Elliott injuries , we essentially had to replace all of our quality which Gary found hard to do at the level… The style of play and competitiveness can not be questioned 

[Robbored]

“RR gets a lot of stick but to be fair I thought it was common knowledge that players were unhappy with the nepotism - LJ played ahead of Skuse, Noble and even Hartley FFS - and ultimately isn't that what led to the half time incident at Plymouth?

The family corner shop comparison isn't unfair either, apart from the huge controversy caused with his son, and a brother as chief scout, I was told by an academy coach at the time that GJ wanted to bring anotherbrother in, who at the time was managing the equivalent of a Somerest county league team.”

Thanks Nick

All  some posters saw under GJ was results and that’s a stick that they used to devalue my opinion of him. What most didn’t see was his man management which led ultimately to his dismissal after the brawl at half time at Home Park when senior players went to SL and refused to play under GJ any longer.

[NickJ]

18 minutes ago, Fredford89 said:

Didn’t take risks but ended up in top 2 please go back and watch some highlights of that season your completely wrong, you seem to be a statistic merchant rather than someone who attended games, we were brave on the ball and tried to win every game, our best players and the core of our team was dissembled , Carey old age , Orr, Basso, Elliott injuries , we essentially had to replace all of our quality which Gary found hard to do at the level… The style of play and competitiveness can not be questioned 

If you say so, yessir

[Fredford89]

47 minutes ago, Robbored said:

 

“RR gets a lot of stick but to be fair I thought it was common knowledge that players were unhappy with the nepotism - LJ played ahead of Skuse, Noble and even Hartley FFS - and ultimately isn't that what led to the half time incident at Plymouth?

The family corner shop comparison isn't unfair either, apart from the huge controversy caused with his son, and a brother as chief scout, I was told by an academy coach at the time that GJ wanted to bring anotherbrother in, who at the time was managing the equivalent of a Somerest county league team.”

Thanks Nick

All  some posters saw under GJ was results and that’s a stick that they used to devalue my opinion of him. What most didn’t see was his man management which led ultimately to his dismissal after the brawl at half time at Home Park when senior players went to SL and refused to play under GJ any longer.

Lead by Paul Hartley and a bunch of egotistical unprofessional players, the only justification for players refusing to play for a manager is if he is racist, homophobic otherwise they should ask for a transfer and continue to play when called upon by the club and fans that pay their wages! Gary proved he was good enough the players failed to

[Robbored]

2 hours ago, Fredford89 said:

Lead by Paul Hartley and a bunch of egotistical unprofessional players, the only justification for players refusing to play for a manager is if he is racist, homophobic otherwise they should ask for a transfer and continue to play when called upon by the club and fans that pay their wages! Gary proved he was good enough the players failed to

Fred - you honestly don’t don’t know the half of it. 

I posted recently it was 20+ years ago and things have moved on since then.