Academy Again

[Guest ashtonyate]

The thing is whenever anyone presents coherent arguments as to why you're wrong you ignore them, which is why I struggle to believe that you are somehow enlightened and the rest of us are thick.

Nibor

I really have not seen a coherent argument If you want to put a point to point argument to me we will go through it step by step only one point at a time and i will do my best to answer each point

[bcfcchris2016]

why don't you just accept that very few if not nobody agrees with any of your posts concerning the Academy. This is getting ever so boring. Leave the Academy alone pal, It's not killing anybody. If you carry on like this. I'll Ignore you and i am sure i won't be the only person.

[Guest ashtonyate]

why don't you just accept that very few if not nobody agrees with any of your posts concerning the Academy. This is getting ever so boring. Leave the Academy alone pal, It's not killing anybody. If you carry on like this. I'll Ignore you and i am sure i won't be the only person.

Its not killing any body it could finish the club off its costing the club 675k to run pal

[Guest C.T.I.D]

Yet again we have got another young 20 year old come to the club for cover I think its shamfull that a club with an academy has to bring young player to fill the gap.The club has over the past few years got a lot of youngster in, that the academy should be producing come on Gary get your axe out.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

not again

[Nibor]

I really have not seen a coherent argument If you want to put a point to point argument to me we will go through it step by step only one point at a time and i will do my best to answer each point

OK let's try and make this one last time then.

First off the academy's job is to produce good young players. It isn't responsible for their contracts, their transfer fees, or the success of the first team.

It needs to do this as cheaply as possible, or it would be cheaper to just buy players.

So lets look at the players it's produced who have played in the first team:

Kevin Amankwaah - good enough for this division

Craig Woodman - good enough for this division

Liam Rosenior - playing in the prem

Aaron Brown - good enough for this division

Joe Anyinsah - will eventually play in the championship

Danny Coles - playing (apart from injury) in the championship

Matt Hill - playing in the championship

Cole Skuse - good enough for this division and potential to be much better

Dave Cotterill - excellent potential representing Wales

Scott Golbourne - excellent potential and representing England

Ryan Harley - may well make an impact later this season

Clayton Fortune - good enough for this division

Joe Burnell - good enough for this division

Leroy Lita - playing in the championship, may play in the prem

These are probably the success stories of the academy - the players who have been made available to the first team as a result of the academy. There have been others who haven't made the grade and are playing at a lower level.

There are more coming through as well, Danny Wring, Elliott Benyon, Jennison Williams and Shaun Lamb are all highly regarded I think though I haven't personally watched them.

We've had an academy for 7 years and if it costs 600k a season on average then it's total cost has been £4.2m so far. That's without taking into account the money we generate specifically for the academy through sponsorships that we wouldnt get if we didn't have one. I'd guess this brings us to about £500k a year (or £3.5m total) but there's no hard figures for this so it's a total guess.

From the players listed above we've received transfer fees totalling around £1.5 million (some were undisclosed) with more to come through sell ons and other clauses. Had we sold certain players like Coles and Fortune at better times, and not buggered up Rosenior's contract offer we could be looking at near twice that.

So that's less than £2 million to produce 14 players (2 a season) good enough for this level and in some cases much better. It could have been less than a million were our transfer dealings a bit more astute.

The players we get from the academy seem expensive at 150k each until you consider that they're probably costing us less than half what a signing would in wages, and there's the potential for more money if we have to sell.

Would you rather have 4 players from the list above or one Lee Peacock? 2 of them or one Lee Miller? Dare I mention some of Pulis' signings? I don't think that if we had spent an extra £2m over 7 years on transfer fees instead of the academy we'd be any better off than we are now, I think we'd have had a worse team and a bigger wage bill. Our record with signings would seem to support that over the time the academy has been in existence.

Therefore I reckon the academy is a good investment, and gets a better one every year as costs go down and quality of players goes up.

Some other points:-

Danny Wilson's team in 03/04 which made the playoff final and just failed in that one game was comprised largely of academy players. They were good enough to go up and indeed several of them did just not with us.

Consider Charlton's academy - they got £10m for Scott Parker, enough to fund ours for 20 years. If you don't have one you don't have the chance of finding that gem. Do you think we'd have players like Cotterill who might well recoup most of our investment in one transfer fee in the future if we didn't have an academy?

We have to run a centre of excellence if we don't run an academy. It costs less but it doesn't represent a massive saving. It also means less coaches, no structured match program and is less attractive to youngsters.

And lastly the sentimental reason. The crowd love a local hero, the kid come good. They love to see one of their own being successful with their club, and it gives us a certain pride. It's nice to lord it over Rovers too

Anyway... over to you Ashtonyate.

Nibor

[Guest ashtonyate]

OK let's try and make this one last time then.

First off the academy's job is to produce good young players. It isn't responsible for their contracts, their transfer fees, or the success of the first team.

It needs to do this as cheaply as possible, or it would be cheaper to just buy players.

So lets look at the players it's produced who have played in the first team:

Kevin Amankwaah - good enough for this division

Craig Woodman - good enough for this division

Liam Rosenior - playing in the prem

Aaron Brown - good enough for this division

Joe Anyinsah - will eventually play in the championship

Danny Coles - playing (apart from injury) in the championship

Matt Hill - playing in the championship

Cole Skuse - good enough for this division and potential to be much better

Dave Cotterill - excellent potential representing Wales

Scott Golbourne - excellent potential and representing England

Ryan Harley - may well make an impact later this season

Clayton Fortune - good enough for this division

Joe Burnell - good enough for this division

Leroy Lita - playing in the championship, may play in the prem

These are probably the success stories of the academy - the players who have been made available to the first team as a result of the academy. There have been others who haven't made the grade and are playing at a lower level.

There are more coming through as well, Danny Wring, Elliott Benyon, Jennison Williams and Shaun Lamb are all highly regarded I think though I haven't personally watched them.

We've had an academy for 7 years and if it costs 600k a season on average then it's total cost has been £4.2m so far. That's without taking into account the money we generate specifically for the academy through sponsorships that we wouldnt get if we didn't have one. I'd guess this brings us to about £500k a year (or £3.5m total) but there's no hard figures for this so it's a total guess.

From the players listed above we've received transfer fees totalling around £1.5 million (some were undisclosed) with more to come through sell ons and other clauses. Had we sold certain players like Coles and Fortune at better times, and not buggered up Rosenior's contract offer we could be looking at near twice that.

So that's less than £2 million to produce 14 players (2 a season) good enough for this level and in some cases much better. It could have been less than a million were our transfer dealings a bit more astute.

The players we get from the academy seem expensive at 150k each until you consider that they're probably costing us less than half what a signing would in wages, and there's the potential for more money if we have to sell.

Would you rather have 4 players from the list above or one Lee Peacock? 2 of them or one Lee Miller? Dare I mention some of Pulis' signings? I don't think that if we had spent an extra £2m over 7 years on transfer fees instead of the academy we'd be any better off than we are now, I think we'd have had a worse team and a bigger wage bill. Our record with signings would seem to support that over the time the academy has been in existence.

Therefore I reckon the academy is a good investment, and gets a better one every year as costs go down and quality of players goes up.

Some other points:-

Danny Wilson's team in 03/04 which made the playoff final and just failed in that one game was comprised largely of academy players. They were good enough to go up and indeed several of them did just not with us.

Consider Charlton's academy - they got £10m for Scott Parker, enough to fund ours for 20 years. If you don't have one you don't have the chance of finding that gem. Do you think we'd have players like Cotterill who might well recoup most of our investment in one transfer fee in the future if we didn't have an academy?

We have to run a centre of excellence if we don't run an academy. It costs less but it doesn't represent a massive saving. It also means less coaches, no structured match program and is less attractive to youngsters.

And lastly the sentimental reason. The crowd love a local hero, the kid come good. They love to see one of their own being successful with their club, and it gives us a certain pride. It's nice to lord it over Rovers too

Anyway... over to you Ashtonyate.

Nibor

As you said in your very impressive post 6 or so of the list are good enough to play in this division, Fourtune

I still think wont make it, but young players of that standard are easy to pick up IE Bradley Orr, Gillispy,Scott Brown, Keone, The player that left the club Coles Docerty and even Hill were not of that high a standard.

I suppose Lita & Rosenior are the best players the academy has produced and they are good standard players, but thats about it the rest are all a bit lack lusterd

As for the new bunch yes at this moment in time they seem to be a better standard only time will tell and if they will sign contract without get out clauses in them, because its no good saying the academy has done its job if we cant afford to sign the end product, because we have paid for them to go through the academy

As for the cost Lansdown said some time ago that when the academy was first opened it was costing the Club over a million pounds a year to run but now it has been got down to 645k a year so i don't what it has cost the club over the years

I am still not sure that the bristol area is a hot bed of talent going on past reconning over the last 20 years or the area has produced a hand full of premershipe/first div talent

A centre of Excellence would have been the road to have gone down at a third of the cost to the club but this post started by me saying that a club with a academy should not have to bring in 20 year old from other clubs it shows how strong our academy is when it has to do that.

[Guest Ron]

Bet you were there cheering when Stewart went to Rovers, Ashtonyate?

[Bristolface]

I seem to remember watching a programme which said that only clubs with academies can pick up players from exit trials. Therefore, we would never have been able to pick up Lita, Clist , Fortune, Gillespie and whoever else we've picked up over recent years.

Oh bugger you just stole my thunder was going to say that, if we did not have our great academy we not attract players of Lita's quality to ashton gate and they would go to another club with a academy, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it ashtonyate. And stop sounding like a little boy who's rattle has fallen out of his pushchair.

[bh_red]

Why waste of our breath on him, he is just a sad little twisted pathetic old man, who is bitter that he can't go anymore.

get a life.

I'm now going to select to ignore all his post as they waste our time!

Funny though how he can't afford to go to the matches, but can afford a PC and constant Internet access!!!!

[Redtucks]

OK let's try and make this one last time then.

First off the academy's job is to produce good young players. It isn't responsible for their contracts, their transfer fees, or the success of the first team.

It needs to do this as cheaply as possible, or it would be cheaper to just buy players.

So lets look at the players it's produced who have played in the first team:

Kevin Amankwaah - good enough for this division

Craig Woodman - good enough for this division

Liam Rosenior - playing in the prem

Aaron Brown - good enough for this division

Joe Anyinsah - will eventually play in the championship

Danny Coles - playing (apart from injury) in the championship

Matt Hill - playing in the championship

Cole Skuse - good enough for this division and potential to be much better

Dave Cotterill - excellent potential representing Wales

Scott Golbourne - excellent potential and representing England

Ryan Harley - may well make an impact later this season

Clayton Fortune - good enough for this division

Joe Burnell - good enough for this division

Leroy Lita - playing in the championship, may play in the prem

These are probably the success stories of the academy - the players who have been made available to the first team as a result of the academy. There have been others who haven't made the grade and are playing at a lower level.

There are more coming through as well, Danny Wring, Elliott Benyon, Jennison Williams and Shaun Lamb are all highly regarded I think though I haven't personally watched them.

We've had an academy for 7 years and if it costs 600k a season on average then it's total cost has been £4.2m so far. That's without taking into account the money we generate specifically for the academy through sponsorships that we wouldnt get if we didn't have one. I'd guess this brings us to about £500k a year (or £3.5m total) but there's no hard figures for this so it's a total guess.

From the players listed above we've received transfer fees totalling around £1.5 million (some were undisclosed) with more to come through sell ons and other clauses. Had we sold certain players like Coles and Fortune at better times, and not buggered up Rosenior's contract offer we could be looking at near twice that.

So that's less than £2 million to produce 14 players (2 a season) good enough for this level and in some cases much better. It could have been less than a million were our transfer dealings a bit more astute.

The players we get from the academy seem expensive at 150k each until you consider that they're probably costing us less than half what a signing would in wages, and there's the potential for more money if we have to sell.

Would you rather have 4 players from the list above or one Lee Peacock? 2 of them or one Lee Miller? Dare I mention some of Pulis' signings? I don't think that if we had spent an extra £2m over 7 years on transfer fees instead of the academy we'd be any better off than we are now, I think we'd have had a worse team and a bigger wage bill. Our record with signings would seem to support that over the time the academy has been in existence.

Therefore I reckon the academy is a good investment, and gets a better one every year as costs go down and quality of players goes up.

Some other points:-

Danny Wilson's team in 03/04 which made the playoff final and just failed in that one game was comprised largely of academy players. They were good enough to go up and indeed several of them did just not with us.

Consider Charlton's academy - they got £10m for Scott Parker, enough to fund ours for 20 years. If you don't have one you don't have the chance of finding that gem. Do you think we'd have players like Cotterill who might well recoup most of our investment in one transfer fee in the future if we didn't have an academy?

We have to run a centre of excellence if we don't run an academy. It costs less but it doesn't represent a massive saving. It also means less coaches, no structured match program and is less attractive to youngsters.

And lastly the sentimental reason. The crowd love a local hero, the kid come good. They love to see one of their own being successful with their club, and it gives us a certain pride. It's nice to lord it over Rovers too

Anyway... over to you Ashtonyate.

Nibor

Nibor,

I congratulate you on a superb post.

Unfortunately, I feel it is totally wasted as the guy obviously has a closed mind.

Well done for your efforts anyway.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Oh bugger you just stole my thunder was going to say that, if we did not have our great academy we not attract players of Lita's quality to ashton gate and they would go to another club with a academy, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it ashtonyate. And stop sounding like a little boy who's rattle has fallen out of his pushchair.

I cant afford to smoke, so after 7 years of the academy our greatest player so far is lita who had to be sold to help cover the debt the academy has run up great, Its me sounding like a little boy ok not the rest who cannot put up a good argument in the academy favour

[rumbellow]

I cant afford to smoke, so after 7 years of the academy our greatest player so far is lita who had to be sold to help cover the debt the academy has run up great, Its me sounding like a little boy ok not the rest who cannot put up a good argument in the academy favour

Question to Ashtonhate:-What do you get for £600,000 a season, answer = Lee Peacock::::::::::::::::::And thank god he was'nt here in the early hours of wednesday, it would have been a full blown riot.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Question to Ashtonhate:-What do you get for £600,000 a season, answer = Lee Peacock::::::::::::::::::And thank god he was'nt here in the early hours of wednesday, it would have been a full blown riot.

Thats City fault for not doing there home work but you can buy well if you use your head.Johnson seems to know what he is doing.

[smp]

"You have chosen to ignore all posts from: ashtonyate.

· View this post

· Un-ignore ashtonyate"

Ahh, good ol' Ignore button.

[bh_red]

Thats City fault for not doing there home work but you can buy well if you use your head.Johnson seems to know what he is doing.

Yes which means he will continue to use players from the academy as they develop.

NICE to you are tucked up at home and didn't go to the match AGAIN today. Better of that way, in other news Elliott Benyon another up and coming academy youngster scored again today in another excellent result for our youth teams.

I recommend you go along and watch, it's free entrance and you will enjoy yourself and get some fresh air rather than be sat behind your PC 24/7 hammering the club for thinking of the future.

Lita, Brown, Gillespie, Orr............all players from Premiership Exit trials and clubs with Academys can look at them FIRST............so if it wasn't for having a academy we would have been fighting many other clubs for them!...............but your too narrow minded to realise that!

GET A GRIP on life!!

[Brianred]

Nibor,

I congratulate you on a superb post.

Unfortunately, I feel it is totally wasted as the guy obviously has a closed mind.

Well done for your efforts anyway.

So Redtucks can you tell me where we are in the league with all the up and coming academy? we are a nursery for other clubs!!

[Guest Frank]

Its me sounding like a little boy ok not the rest who cannot put up a good argument in the academy favour

If you can't be bothered to read the responses to your posts then don't expect anyone to do you the courtesy of reading yours. There have been plenty of decent arguments in favour of the academy. Just because you're too rude/ignorant/dim to read them doesn't mean they don't exist.

[loader_red]

If you can't be bothered to read the responses to your posts then don't expect anyone to do you the courtesy of reading yours. There have been plenty of decent arguments in favour of the academy. Just because you're too rude/ignorant/dim to read them doesn't mean they don't exist.

Amen to that .....

[Guest pentlandsl]

"You have chosen to ignore all posts from: ashtonyate.

· View this post

· Un-ignore ashtonyate"

Ahh, good ol' Ignore button.

I can't find an ignore button - where is it? this guy is an absolute dead loss, asks for a backup to someone's argument, gets it in Spades and then asks for it again - he really is off his trolly and I would dearly love to 'IGNORE' this guy! (Ashtonyate I mean!)

[Sir Colby-Tit]

did you know Colin Skuse was the only player to be taken on by the Club in his year.

No he wasn't, his brother Cole was also taken on

[Brianred]

No he wasn't, his brother Cole was also taken on

At least that wasn't an EX

[The Fat Controller]

Just what i was thinking, but rejected as a player or the Academy Director?

One after the other maybe?

Abandonment issues?

[Guest ashtonyate]

Yes which means he will continue to use players from the academy as they develop.

NICE to you are tucked up at home and didn't go to the match AGAIN today. Better of that way, in other news Elliott Benyon another up and coming academy youngster scored again today in another excellent result for our youth teams.

I recommend you go along and watch, it's free entrance and you will enjoy yourself and get some fresh air rather than be sat behind your PC 24/7 hammering the club for thinking of the future.

Lita, Brown, Gillespie, Orr............all players from Premiership Exit trials and clubs with Academys can look at them FIRST............so if it wasn't for having a academy we would have been fighting many other clubs for them!...............but your too narrow minded to realise that!

GET A GRIP on life!!

Lita, Brown, Gillespie, Orr............all players from Premiership Exit trials and clubs with Academys can look at them FIRST............so if it wasn't for having a academy we would have been fighting many other clubs

Rubbish any club can go and get players from exit trials you don't need an academy,I get told i don't read post this has been said by me loads of times

You don't need an academy to go to exit trails the words may give you a ideal EXIT TRAILS

[greenun]

Lita, Brown, Gillespie, Orr............all players from Premiership Exit trials and clubs with Academys can look at them FIRST............so if it wasn't for having a academy we would have been fighting many other clubs

Rubbish any club can go and get players from exit trials you don't need an academy,I get told i don't read post this has been said by me loads of times

You don't need an academy to go to exit trails the words may give you a ideal EXIT TRAILS

AshtonYate, were yours the dulcid tones I heard emanating from my wireless, on Twentyman Talks Back (sans Twentyman, but with the Boy Durden, as my learned colleague MaloneFM calls him) yesterday evening?

Was yours the moniker, 'Mike from Yate'?

It's just that that particular caller stated that he habitated that town in South Gloucestershire, couldn't attend many home games and wanted to talk abot the err......

The ummmmmmm.

Hell, I've forgotten.

Hang on, it was a particular favourite of yours.

Was that you?

Please tell me?

Thanks, Mark.

[Guest ashtonyate]

One after the other maybe?

Abandonment issues?

No just someone who see his team spending shed loads of money on something that they don't have to with no great reward of talent

A center of excellance would be the thing we could afford better and still pick up local talent as well as exit trailest that should provide us with all the young players we should need.

Fan don't seem to understand it takes around 3,000 season ticket holders to service the academy debt ever year our debts go up. One day it will have to be payed for,god only knows how much we owe after we got Johnson in as the new boss,money well spent but whos going to pay the bill in the end.We must start liven with in our means.

[Redtucks]

So Redtucks can you tell me where we are in the league with all the up and coming academy? we are a nursery for other clubs!!

I think you'll find we are 18th (it'll be in the Sunday papers)!!!

By my calculations that means that there are a further 30 clubs below us that do not have an academy.

Hasn't it always been the way that teams from the lower divisions are nurseries for the higher divisions?

[kiwicolin]

lita came through the academy not the exit trials.

he came from the chelsea academy and he wasn't

going to get a contract there although he was promised

one.

ashtonyate. have you been round to the academy to

see what they have done to the place.

it is alot better than it was a few years back.

i think you should phone up john laycock to see

if you can have a tour round the place before knocking

the academy.

[Brianred]

I think you'll find we are 18th (it'll be in the Sunday papers)!!!

By my calculations that means that there are a further 30 clubs below us that do not have an academy.

Hasn't it always been the way that teams from the lower divisions are nurseries for the higher divisions?

Fans go on how big the club could be, so isn't about time the hierarchy kept hold of our useful players from the academy. in a funny way i can see where ashtonyate is coming from!!

[bh_red]

The problem is the Academy DOES work in producing the players for the 1st team.

The problem lies in when they reach the first team, they are then either mismanged, or allowed to have their contracts expire, leave for nothing/peanuts or are allowed to stick silly clauses in their contract.

If we had got the true worth for A Brown, Rosenior, Anayish or Hill, and even to a lesser extent Tommy and Coles then people wouldn't have a leg to stand on, but due to those problems we haven't

The academy side of things does work though...............once they have passed through, that's where the problems start. Hopefully this manager will stop this from happening, unlike Wilson and Tinnion.....but these problem lie mainly with Sexstone and Lansdown.

Hopefully Johnson will be strong and not let good young players contracts expire, With Coterill and Lita I think they have shown they have learned, Lita they took the good offer whilst it was there and they are keeping Cotts tied down long-term.

[Mr Mosquito]

Praise be that we've got something one hundred times better than the BCFC academy - a proper manager at last !!!!! And well done to the Charlton academy and Charlton FC for their two academy players that played in our central defence yesterday !!!!