Academy Again

[Guest Frank]

Good old ashtonyate, i see youve risen above it and shown your maturity again.

Congratulations.

Especially as he hasn't disproved anything I've said.

Still that would be a fact, so it won't really interest him.

[Guest ashtonyate]

I said 'Go on then'. Not 'copy and paste some random article that you probably haven't even read properly.'

Now you are talking out of your ass hole

[Guest Frank]

Now you are talking out of your ass hole

Yes, yes. Go away you sad little man and come back when you've got answers to the hundreds of points put to you on this thread which apparently you don't have time to answer.

[The Fat Controller]

You keep on about exit trials can only be atteded by Academy clubs that is untrue it is where players who have been through the academy system and are not going to be offerd a contract any club can go to them

Ok, congratulations, with your article you managed to disprove both my point and your own. Yes, US Universities are allowed to exit trials, but there are no mentions for centres of excellence. (By the way Ashtonyate, this is what we call accepting a point when you are wrong, now you try)

We may have made a profit this year but you cannot single out one year, you have take the past years in to account.

Not directly no, but the money spent on the academy has been saved x number of times over by not having to buy in players.

You quote our back four, woodman came through the academy we bought Partridge for Good price cheaper than had he came through the academy Orr came on a free and Sankofa will go back to Palace so i don't know what your point is with that

Sankofa and youga have both been allowed on loan to us because we are a similar style of club to charlton supposedly. ie; decent youth training facilities and an academy. We concentrate on youth development which favours loaning in players who need to gain experience. Orr came on a free thorugh the academy exit trials, undoubtedly advised to join a club with a decent academy and with a good history of said youngsters making the grade, especially with other clubs after him. Woodman, as youn say came thorugh the academy. Without the academy, how many left backs would we have at the moment? 0. Partirdge, yes, agreed, we had to pay for, but say for example if we only have to pay for 1 in 4 players in our squad, at that price or thereabouts, then we would be paying £900,000 for 6 players, and the £650,000 or so spent on the academy producing the rest of the squad. Value for money and quality players coming through such as Matty Hill, Lita, Skuse, Cotterill, Brown etc.

As for me saying 3,000 season ticket holders not ever one pays the full price eg kids & oap

Majority of season ticket holders are adults. Common sense dictates that much. Even with an average of £250 a season ticket still makes £750,000 and thats with the lowest priced adult ticket at around the £290 mark.

Now for Swindon the differance between us and them is Steve Lansdown and the board if we never had them we would be in a worst position

The difference between us and Swindon is that we have an academy, so don't have to constantly shell out for overpaid journeymen and therefore it is much more difficult to fall into financial ruin. Steve Lansdown is a fantastic chairman, and obviously knows what is best for the club, why don't you ask him for his views on the academy.

[purple_monkey_dishwasher]

I am glad to prove that you don't need an academy to go to exit trails

Erm, excuse me, but I mentioned this several posts before you did. I found out about american universities attending the trials long before you.

Once again, I did your research for you. Like yesterday when I calculated the cost of 3000 season tickets to disprove that they cost the same as the Academy. Interestingly, you never replied to that post. I wonder why?

Nice to see you've resorted to swearing at people. Perhaps if you took 5 minutes longer over your posts you could articulate your argument better and we might stop going round in circles? I won't hold my breath....

[The Fat Controller]

Anyone else thinking of Homer Simpson doing that circus tune... "Do-do-do-da-da-da-daa-daa-do-do"

[purple_monkey_dishwasher]

This post has over 100 post but only by a handfull of posters so there is not 100 people disagreeing just a few happy clappis

I love this If you had any inkling at all about my current opinion on Bristol City, you would know calling me a "happy clappi" (sic) is absolutely hilarious. I'm arguing with you because you are incoherent, repetitive and cannot take on a single point aimed at you no matter how articulate or well thought out it is. Evidence is provided to show why we think the way we do about the Academy, yet you either ignore or dismiss it, or worse still call us liars. To be honest I could agree with you about the Academy but I'd still have enough ammunition to argue with you all day long because none of your posts make sense. Can you not see this?

If anyone is a happy clappy on this forum, I'd say it was the man who keeps moaning about how expensive the tickets are and at the same time condones the actions of "athletes" who choose to take the money generated from ticket sales and use it to act like yobs. Know anyone fitting that description, ashtonyate?

[bucksred]

Ahtonyate, I've never bothered responding to your utter twaddle about the academy, cos frankly its exactly that.

But given the wonderful players we've brought in (Thorpe, Peacock, Dinning, Jones, Smith), have absolutely impressed us all, time for you to find another record to play (or cd/dvd/mp3/minidisc )

Its NOT the Academy at fault here, its the inept managers City select. Now we have someone who understands the damn thing, unlike you, we might make better use of it. Exit trials players only go to teams with academies, and most of the better talent here has come through at least part of the Academy process.

Lets see now, Lita, or Stewart.

Hill or Butler.

Doherty or Dinning.

Gillespie or Leapy/Thorpe.

Cotterill or Murray.

Until then keep quiet , cos no one on this forum agrees with you.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Lillis beefs up cattle market

THEY have been described as a "cattle market," a "heartbreak hotel" and even as a "last-chance saloon" and the FA has even changed their name to give them a more positive spin.

But the Premier League's assessment trials, formerly known as the "exit trials", remain a blend of heartache and hope, of shattered dreams and rekindled desire.

Every year, for three days, up to 60 young footballers, released by their clubs in the final year of their Academy training, gather for the trials at the National Sports Centre in Lilleshall, in a bid to impress a gathering of scouts and representatives of US universities.

Their hopes of a contract with a Premiership club dashed, they are fighting for the chance to cut a deal with a Football League club, or in Scotland or Ireland.

Former Manchester City star Mark Lillis was one of the coaches invited by the FA to help out with the trials - and with good reason. Lillis himself faced the misery of being released by the Blues as a 14-year-old, only to force his way back into the game with Huddersfield before moving back to Maine Road ten years later.

He went on to play for Derby, Aston Villa, S****horpe, Leicester and Stockport as well as, satisfyingly, back at City. He has also been kicked from pillar to post since taking up coaching with S****horpe, Northern Ireland and Stockport, where he was sacked before Christmas along with boss Sammy McIlroy.

Lillis, also a European scout and M.E.N. Sport columnist, feels the "cattle market" label is unfair.

"The whole thing was re-named the assessment trials because `exit trials' made it feel a bit like it was the end of the line," said Lillis, still out of regular work since leaving Edgeley Park.

"The three days was really interesting work, with lads from all of the Premiership clubs, including a couple from United, Steven Hogg and Ben Collett, who was in Manchester United's FA Youth Cup-winning side a couple of seasons ago.

"On the first day I was given a squad of players to work with but before we went out onto the field I took them into a lecture theatre for a chat, because there was an air of disappointment on them, a real quietness about the place.

"I asked them how they felt after being released and at first there were no answers.

"Eventually one lad from Crystal Palace piped up, saying he knew it was coming but had hoped against it right up until the day he was released. Another lad said he felt he had let his family down."

Lillis's initial task was to restore the morale of lads who have taken a mental battering.

"The first thing I did was to remind them that they had ability, otherwise they wouldn't even have been there. I also told them that I had been made redundant as a football coach just before Christmas, but it didn't make me a bad coach."

Scholarships

Lillis also coached at the trials three years ago, and added: "To be fair, the Premier League have improved it. It wasn't just about football. The Professional Footballers Association gave them a talk about what they could offer in terms of education and careers guidance, careers officers were on hand to help them prepare CVs, there were American universities offering scholarships and a referee came in to talk about becoming a ref. At £60,000 a year in the Premiership, I put my hand up when he asked if anyone was interested in refereeing!

"There was even a fella there from the Royal Marines showing what a career with them could offer."

But the crux of the three days came on Wednesday, when representatives of 56 clubs turned up to run the rule over the young players. Over the duration of two 25-minute halves, the destiny of most of the young lads was decided.

"I told my lads before they went out to play to make sure that they weren't in the car or on the train home, with regrets, wishing they could play the game again," Lillis added.

The watching scouts are not allowed to approach the youngsters directly, they have to fill in forms and the Premier League let the players know of any interest within five days.

Lillis, born and brought up in Manchester and a former Manchester Boys player, called on his own experiences as he tried to buoy up the players in his charge.

"If Huddersfield hadn't offered me a contract when City let me go, I would probably have stayed at the Daily Express, where I worked as a messenger boy, or gone into the asphalt game with my dad," he said.

"I told them it was about desire. Some lads might be happy just to have spent eight years at United, or Arsenal or Chelsea.

"But I reminded them all that David Platt was released by United as a kid, went to Crewe and ended up captaining England.

"I was two years at City as a schoolboy and my dad went to the club and came out of the meeting suggesting we might have to look elsewhere. I had trials at Burnley, Plymouth, Sheffield Wednesday, Chester and Preston before I finally got a one-year deal with Huddersfield.

"I dug into that, and set out to prove everyone wrong. When I went back to City ten years later, I enjoyed walking up to people who had doubted me, shaking their hands and saying `Remember me?'"

Lillis is now hoping that he has helped a few young players along the same difficult route that he has trodden.

"I know that, with all the scouts there, it can be seen as a cattle market or a bit degrading, but it is basically there to try to help young footballers further their careers, or at least give them guidance in another direction. I was urging some lads to think about going to the States on a three-year scholarship if they got the chance. They could always get a plane home if it didn't work out. The last thing these boys want is to be wondering years from now, what would have happened if...?"

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I found this on the web as you see U S Unis and the army go along to exit trails

Every year, for three days, up to 60 young footballers, released by their clubs in the final year of their Academy training, gather for the trials at the National Sports Centre in Lilleshall, in a bid to impress a gathering of scouts and representatives of US universities.

Their hopes of a contract with a Premiership club dashed, they are fighting for the chance to cut a deal with a Football League club, or in Scotland or Ireland. Fot you browner11 and monkey pleas read

Every year, for three days, up to 60 young footballers, released by their clubs in the final year of their Academy training, gather for the trials at the National Sports Centre in Lilleshall, in a bid to impress a gathering of scouts and representatives of US universities.

Their hopes of a contract with a Premiership club dashed, they are fighting for the chance to cut a deal with a Football League club, or in Scotland or Ireland. Fot you browner11 and monkey pleas read

The reason I keep showing this post is for once and all it shows that you don't need an academy to go to these trail do we all agree with that and dispells the fact you can go and sign players up good as we can produce at a fraction of the cost

[Guest Frank]

Every year, for three days, up to 60 young footballers, released by their clubs in the final year of their Academy training, gather for the trials at the National Sports Centre in Lilleshall, in a bid to impress a gathering of scouts and representatives of US universities.

Their hopes of a contract with a Premiership club dashed, they are fighting for the chance to cut a deal with a Football League club, or in Scotland or Ireland. Fot you browner11 and monkey pleas read

What does that prove? I've said it all along as has purple monkey dishwasher. In fact SHE MADE THIS VERY POINT BEFORE YOU DID.

What I have also said is that the academy system has a duty of care to its players. This extends to ensuring the club they join once released is the best possible club for their continued development. By its very nature the duty of care will mean that the players with a choice to make (usually the better ones) are encouraged to choose clubs with academies over those that don't.

In other words, you've added nothing to the debate. But that isn't news either.

[purple_monkey_dishwasher]

Fot you browner11 and monkey pleas read

Oh. My. God. You're not serious are you?

I TOLD YOU THAT BEFORE YOU POSTED IT. As I've already pointed out. Once again you prove to me that you do not have a clue what is going on in threads such as these. You have no idea what you're arguing or what anyone is saying in response.

Now, about those 3000 season tickets. Still waiting for your response on that one....

[Guest Frank]

you can go and sign players up good as we can produce at a fraction of the cost

How does it prove that?

And how are you going to persuade the very best players at the exit trials to join Bristol City above clubs in the same division? Using your legendary communication skills I suppose.

[purple_monkey_dishwasher]

What does that prove? I've said it all along as has purple monkey dishwasher. In fact SHE MADE THIS VERY POINT BEFORE YOU DID.

Thank god someone is paying attention. I'm beginning to get paranoid here. The only thing I have said regarding exit trials in this thread is the same as what Ashtonyate has posted, but yet he singles me out as being proved wrong on the subject? If this thread was confusing before, what is it now?

The more he posts the more I become convinced it's a comic genius winding us all up. Surely nobody can be this ill-informed and have such poor debating skills for real?

[Guest Frank]

Thank god someone is paying attention. I'm beginning to get paranoid here. The only thing I have said regarding exit trials in this thread is the same as what Ashtonyate has posted, but yet he singles me out as being proved wrong on the subject? If this thread was confusing before, what is it now?

The more he posts the more I become convinced it's a comic genius winding us all up. Surely nobody can be this ill-informed and have such poor debating skills for real?

I thought that too. Then I heard him on the radio.....

So either it's someone who also does a convincing yokel dullard impersonation that Ronnie Barker would have been proud of, or it's actually a real person.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Thank god someone is paying attention. I'm beginning to get paranoid here. The only thing I have said regarding exit trials in this thread is the same as what Ashtonyate has posted, but yet he singles me out as being proved wrong on the subject? If this thread was confusing before, what is it now?

The more he posts the more I become convinced it's a comic genius winding us all up. Surely nobody can be this ill-informed and have such poor debating skills for real?

So now we are all agred that you don't have to have an academy to go to exit trials and the monkey told us that 3 year ago as she is a woman let her have her own way

[purple_monkey_dishwasher]

So now we are all agred that you don't have to have an academy to go to exit trials and the monkey told us that 3 year ago as she is a woman let her have her own way

Hooray! Insults. What else are you going to prove today?

That Iraq had weapons of mass destruction after all - thus proving Bush and Blair wrong!

Or perhaps you'll show us that e = mc2? In your face, Einstein!

Or maybe you'll show us that apples fall to the ground due to gravity - take that, Newton!

Oh by the way, those 3000 season tickets....

(Incidentally, I didn't tell you that 3 years ago, it was yesterday evening at approximately 8.30pm. You obviously weren't paying attention. Again.)

[Guest Frank]

Oh by the way, those 3000 season tickets....

Oi! Stop shoving in and get in the queue. There are a large number of other questions that require his attention before that one if he's going ot answer them in order. :razz:

[purple_monkey_dishwasher]

Oi! Stop shoving in and get in the queue. There are a large number of other questions that require his attention before that one if he's going ot answer them in order. :razz:

Harumph! I think you'll find I had the 3000 season tickets debate with him some months ago and I'm still waiting for an answer! I did all the calculations back then too, only took me 5 minutes, but a simple bit of research like that seems beyond our good friend. Unless, strangely, it's to prove me wrong about the opposite of what I said before he said it. Is that right? My brain hurts....

[Guest ashtonyate]

Hooray! Insults. What else are you going to prove today?

That Iraq had weapons of mass destruction after all - thus proving Bush and Blair wrong!

Or perhaps you'll show us that e = mc2? In your face, Einstein!

Or maybe you'll show us that apples fall to the ground due to gravity - take that, Newton!

Oh by the way, those 3000 season tickets....

(Incidentally, I didn't tell you that 3 years ago, it was yesterday evening at approximately 8.30pm. You obviously weren't paying attention. Again.)

Atyeo stand 1,500 at £299 1000 at £148 500 £90 =627k near enough

[Nibor]

going to reply to any of the myriad of other points you've ignored?

Thought not.

[purple_monkey_dishwasher]

Atyeo stand 1,500 at £299 1000 at £148 500 £90 =627k near enough

So what? I could do a calculation like that and find that only 1791 adult Dolman season ticket holders are required. Then I could go around saying what wonderful value the academy is because it costs less than 2000 season tickets to finance it. But you know what, I don't, because such a calculation is utterly meaningless. Do you not see that?

Also, I see you didn't take into account the funding and sponsorship that reduces the cost to the club. Despite being reminded to. Nevermind.

[cidercity1987]

Atyeo stand 1,500 at £299 1000 at £148 500 £90 =627k near enough

Ashtonyate, if you were anywhere near being right with this whole crusade against the academy you would have people agreeing with you. 40odd people against 1 suggests you are wrong, unless you are special and have some kind of superior knowledge? I'm not going to get into the finances of having the academy, but I believe it should exist simply to provide youngsters from Bristol with the chance of a football career. As a Yate man you should feel proud of the likes of Cole Skuse who have grown up in our area to play for City. Without the academy this would not happen, and we would be constantly stuck with journeymen like Dinning, JSmith,etc who do our club absolutely no favours. Finally, a club in a city like ours should be gracing the Premiership. The cheapest way to do this is to groom our own players.

[Guest Frank]

Ashtonyate, if you were anywhere near being right with this whole crusade against the academy you would have people agreeing with you. 40odd people against 1 suggests you are wrong, unless you are special and have some kind of superior knowledge? I'm not going to get into the finances of having the academy, but I believe it should exist simply to provide youngsters from Bristol with the chance of a football career. As a Yate man you should feel proud of the likes of Cole Skuse who have grown up in our area to play for City. Without the academy this would not happen, and we would be constantly stuck with journeymen like Dinning, JSmith,etc who do our club absolutely no favours. Finally, a club in a city like ours should be gracing the Premiership. The cheapest way to do this is to groom our own players.

Yes and if we get to the Premiership ashtonyate will then advocate us starting an academy. Then, 10 years on from that point it will start to bear fruit by which time we'll probably have returned from whence we came, so there won't be any point having one so he'd shut it again. Then if we got to the Premiership again he'd reopen it and 10 years on it would start to bear fruit, by which time... etc etc etc

[Guest ashtonyate]

Yes and if we get to the Premiership ashtonyate will then advocate us starting an academy. Then, 10 years on from that point it will start to bear fruit by which time we'll probably have returned from whence we came, so there won't be any point having one so he'd shut it again. Then if we got to the Premiership again he'd reopen it and 10 years on it would start to bear fruit, by which time... etc etc etc

If we got to the premership we may need an academy, but my dad and I between us have watch city from the 1930s and in all that time we have been in the first four years so i wont be holding my breath.

If we had a centre of excellance it could be upgraded to an academy easly if we ever got that near, also if by some magic we got to that stage would the academy players that are in the system be good enough and could we get better young player than now if we were in that postion because I still say the players that have passed through the academy are not that good if you take out Lita & Rosenior.

[cidercity1987]

If we got to the premership we may need an academy, but my dad and I between us have watch city from the 1930s and in all that time we have been in the first four years so i wont be holding my breath.

If we had a centre of excellance it could be upgraded to an academy easly if we ever got that near, also if by some magic we got to that stage would the academy players that are in the system be good enough and could we get better young player than now if we were in that postion because I still say the players that have passed through the academy are not that good if you take out Lita & Rosenior.

We won't get to the Prem without an academy. Do you want us to be mediocre forever?

[Guest Frank]

If we got to the premership we may need an academy, but my dad and I between us have watch city from the 1930s and in all that time we have been in the first four years so i wont be holding my breath.

If we had a centre of excellance it could be upgraded to an academy easly if we ever got that near, also if by some magic we got to that stage would the academy players that are in the system be good enough and could we get better young player than now if we were in that postion because I still say the players that have passed through the academy are not that good if you take out Lita & Rosenior.

Oh do your bloody research for crying out loud.

If you are in the Premiership it is compulsory that you have an academy. There's no 'may need' about it.

If you're going to spout on and on about something, would it kill you to actually read up on it?

[Guest ashtonyate]

Ashtonyate, if you were anywhere near being right with this whole crusade against the academy you would have people agreeing with you. 40odd people against 1 suggests you are wrong, unless you are special and have some kind of superior knowledge? I'm not going to get into the finances of having the academy, but I believe it should exist simply to provide youngsters from Bristol with the chance of a football career. As a Yate man you should feel proud of the likes of Cole Skuse who have grown up in our area to play for City. Without the academy this would not happen, and we would be constantly stuck with journeymen like Dinning, JSmith,etc who do our club absolutely no favours. Finally, a club in a city like ours should be gracing the Premiership. The cheapest way to do this is to groom our own players.

No its just a view I suppose we are allowed to have one are we, I am sorry it makes no differance if a player comes from yate or any where in England to me its whats best for the club

People keep on about bad signings like Dinning but not about bad academy players I would love to know how much it cost the club for each academy player that gets into the first team because he is carring the cost of them that don't

Also fans forget the debt the club is in all the money we owe must be paid back sooner than later no one seems to want to answer that one.

Oh do your bloody research for crying out loud.

If you are in the Premiership it is compulsory that you have an academy. There's no 'may need' about it.

If you're going to spout on and on about something, would it kill you to actually read up on it?

well lets wait until we are near that position we cant get out of the third at the moment as i said it would be easy to convert a c of e into an academy and as i said would the player in the academy pipe line be good enough as so far we have had 1 player play in the academy

[Dibdenred]

I think this post has already taken enough of everyone's time. Put simply, the cost of the academy currently cost's us less than 200k per year. I am not guessing at this figure but have it on good authority. Ie not 2nd hand info. The cost of running the academy after grants is as i mentioned in my more detailed response from yesterday a sound investment. If Ashton yate or anyonelse feels that our academy is not worth this annual cost then fair enough we will just have to agree to differ.

As mentioned previously the acadamy is self financing, which means Ashtonyate that the main basis of your reasons for getting rid of the academy are flawed. It seems when you can't win one point (Critical point) you simply harp on about some other reason why the academy is a waste of time. If you want to challenge the cost of the academy i suggest that you email the academy- academy@bcfc.co.uk, who i am sure will be happy to explain to you how it is self financing should you be bothered to try.

Although they are unlikely to give you the exact annual cost i am sure that they will be able to put your mind at rest that the academy is self financing and has by no means put the club in debt. In fact the truth is quite the reverse. The club's debt is being reduced by the profit generated from the academy.

I am sure that Ashtonyate will sidestep the financial figures as obviously he knows best. :@

[Nibor]

well lets wait until we are near that position we cant get out of the third at the moment as i said it would be easy to convert a c of e into an academy and as i said would the player in the academy pipe line be good enough as so far we have had 1 player play in the academy

If you think that converting a CoE into an academy is easy then you are completely and utterly ignorant and you've forgotten most of the information that's been posted on this before.

Go to the FA website, find the paper on youth development, look at the differences. Read up on the problems we had getting facilities up to standard.

Nibor

[Guest ashtonyate]

I think this post has already taken enough of everyone's time. Put simply, the cost of the academy currently cost's us less than 200k per year. I am not guessing at this figure but have it on good authority. Ie not 2nd hand info. The cost of running the academy after grants is as i mentioned in my more detailed response from yesterday a sound investment. If Ashton yate or anyonelse feels that our academy is not worth this annual cost then fair enough we will just have to agree to differ.

As mentioned previously the acadamy is self financing, which means Ashtonyate that the main basis of your reasons for getting rid of the academy are flawed. It seems when you can't win one point (Critical point) you simply harp on about some other reason why the academy is a waste of time. If you want to challenge the cost of the academy i suggest that you email the academy- academy@bcfc.co.uk, who i am sure will be happy to explain to you how it is self financing should you be bothered to try.

Although they are unlikely to give you the exact annual cost i am sure that they will be able to put your mind at rest that the academy is self financing and has by no means put the club in debt. In fact the truth is quite the reverse. The club's debt is being reduced by the profit generated from the academy.

I am sure that Ashtonyate will sidestep the financial figures as obviously he knows best. :@

I don't have to I am going on the last figure S L produced i sure they would give me a full break down of the clubs financially position, and some one alway knows a man and the clubs debt is being reduced by the academy great prehaps we should start another 5 we could pay the debt off