Ashton gate halt and the Portishead rail line (Merged)

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

You can survive being hit by a car, you can't being hit by a train

Of course. But that's not the sole factor in assessing the risks.

Given the choice of walking blindfold across the Bristol to Exeter railway line or the M5 I know which I'd go for. 

In this instance the crossing would have been metres from the station so the speeds and stopping distances would have been very low. And the crossing would have been surrounded with the whole panoply of security and safety devices that accompany crossings.

The safety and security precautions for pedestrians crossing the road will be nowhere near as good.

 

[Monkeh]

3 hours ago, italian dave said:

Of course. But that's not the sole factor in assessing the risks.

Given the choice of walking blindfold across the Bristol to Exeter railway line or the M5 I know which I'd go for. 

In this instance the crossing would have been metres from the station so the speeds and stopping distances would have been very low. And the crossing would have been surrounded with the whole panoply of security and safety devices that accompany crossings.

The safety and security precautions for pedestrians crossing the road will be nowhere near as good.

 

I can find the stopping distance if you like,  i know its a kile and a quarter for a train going at 125mph,

I would imagine at the crossing if one were there the limited would be 20mph, I think the current line speed is only 40mph

but it won't reverse nwr or orr policy,

 

[GreedyHarry]

3 hours ago, italian dave said:

Of course. But that's not the sole factor in assessing the risks.

Given the choice of walking blindfold across the Bristol to Exeter railway line or the M5 I know which I'd go for. 

In this instance the crossing would have been metres from the station so the speeds and stopping distances would have been very low. And the crossing would have been surrounded with the whole panoply of security and safety devices that accompany crossings.

The safety and security precautions for pedestrians crossing the road will be nowhere near as good.

 

I don’t disagree with you, but the railway isn’t concerned with the risk of a pedestrian crossing the road. To be blunt it’s none of its business. They are however concerned with a pedestrian or vehicle misusing a level crossing and the consequences of that. So with that very narrow view, better to have no area where trains and vehicles/pedestrians can conflict and therefore no level crossing.

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

I can find the stopping distance if you like,  i know its a kile and a quarter for a train going at 125mph,

I would imagine at the crossing if one were there the limited would be 20mph, I think the current line speed is only 40mph

but it won't reverse nwr or orr policy,

 

On the original design the crossing was no more than 50 metres from the station. I cant imagine any train would be doing more than about 5mph that close to a terminus.

But I agree - its all hypothetical and I know the policy won't be reversed - the Portishead Railway Group went all through that and did try!

[italian dave]

45 minutes ago, GreedyHarry said:

I don’t disagree with you, but the railway isn’t concerned with the risk of a pedestrian crossing the road. To be blunt it’s none of its business. They are however concerned with a pedestrian or vehicle misusing a level crossing and the consequences of that. So with that very narrow view, better to have no area where trains and vehicles/pedestrians can conflict and therefore no level crossing.

Oh I completely agree. Its debateable whether that's a sensible approach overall, but I absolutely get that's why Network rail won't entertain the notion. 

All I'm saying is that, bigger picture, it creates a scenario where vehicles and pedestrians come into conflict and that wouldn't have happened if the station had been adjacent to the car park.

[Monkeh]

21 minutes ago, italian dave said:

On the original design the crossing was no more than 50 metres from the station. I cant imagine any train would be doing more than about 5mph that close to a terminus.

But I agree - its all hypothetical and I know the policy won't be reversed - the Portishead Railway Group went all through that and did try!

Yea, but we in the industry are quite risk adverse at the moment, 

I've never really agreed with the total ban on crossing installation, as the vast majority of accidents around this piece of infrastructure is around crossing misuse

[winsaw]

Latest on the Portishead rail link,

North Somerset council are saying they hope to have the line open by the end of 2026 after North Somerset council and west of England combined authority both agreed to put in 10 million extra each to cover extra costs after the DFT agreed to put an extra 15 million in and agreed to cover any extra costs as a result of inflation, 

This brings the current cost of reopening the line to 159 million,

The DFT have now said they are considering the business case for the line and hope to announce the go ahead on 19/2/23

The latest cost savings have seen capacity reduced on the line, the new station at Portishead will now only be 3 coaches long not the 5 previous planed, a 140 seats less per train in the peak 

And also there will be no building on the station not even a bus shelter to give cover when waiting for a train, 

The plan for Pill to be the only intermittent station in the line is unchanged

So some good and some bad news 

[frenchred]

43 minutes ago, winsaw said:

Latest on the Portishead rail link,

North Somerset council are saying they hope to have the line open by the end of 2026 after North Somerset council and west of England combined authority both agreed to put in 10 million extra each to cover extra costs after the DFT agreed to put an extra 15 million in and agreed to cover any extra costs as a result of inflation, 

This brings the current cost of reopening the line to 159 million,

The DFT have now said they are considering the business case for the line and hope to announce the go ahead on 19/2/23

The latest cost savings have seen capacity reduced on the line, the new station at Portishead will now only be 3 coaches long not the 5 previous planed, a 140 seats less per train in the peak 

And also there will be no building on the station not even a bus shelter to give cover when waiting for a train, 

The plan for Pill to be the only intermittent station in the line is unchanged

So some good and some bad news 

it’s just a half hearted, half baked, expensive scheme that has been watered down so much it’s pretty irrelevant now. if i understand correctly, 3 carriages instead of 5, one train an hour, 30mph max speed, and if it’s pissing down with rain don’t expect a shelter! it’s 2022 ffs! It’s now embarrassing.

why not a fully functioning light railway or tram system. other cities do it!

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, frenchred said:

it’s just a half hearted, half baked, expensive scheme that has been watered down so much it’s pretty irrelevant now. if i understand correctly, 3 carriages instead of 5, one train an hour, 30mph max speed, and if it’s pissing down with rain don’t expect a shelter! it’s 2022 ffs! It’s now embarrassing.

why not a fully functioning light railway or tram system. other cities do it!

Does it really surprise you?

I remember reading a comment by someone on the reason Ashton Gate station wouldn't go ahead.
Too busy on Saturdays and not busy enough during the week. 
That line and the Portishead line would be ideal for a Tram system like around Man City's ground surely.

[Monkeh]

52 minutes ago, winsaw said:

Latest on the Portishead rail link,

North Somerset council are saying they hope to have the line open by the end of 2026 after North Somerset council and west of England combined authority both agreed to put in 10 million extra each to cover extra costs after the DFT agreed to put an extra 15 million in and agreed to cover any extra costs as a result of inflation, 

This brings the current cost of reopening the line to 159 million,

The DFT have now said they are considering the business case for the line and hope to announce the go ahead on 19/2/23

The latest cost savings have seen capacity reduced on the line, the new station at Portishead will now only be 3 coaches long not the 5 previous planed, a 140 seats less per train in the peak 

And also there will be no building on the station not even a bus shelter to give cover when waiting for a train, 

The plan for Pill to be the only intermittent station in the line is unchanged

So some good and some bad news 

All the stuff taken out can be added at a later date, the important thing is getting trains running

[pillred]

1 hour ago, TomF said:

This just sounds a rehash of the news from a month ago. The date of 19/2/23 is the end of the 6 month extension for a decision to be made. They don’t need to wait till then 

That's because the way inflation is at the moment the cost will have risen so much it will give them the perfect excuse to drop the whole project siting unaffordability. 

[archie andrews]

like i said earlier if this was germany or japan it would be built by now.....effing get on with it

[Dr Balls]

1 hour ago, TomF said:

The project is under the DfT and now cover additional costs 

You know the best way to make the Portishead line happen and a decision made earlier? For Liam Fox to resign. That would focus top Tory minds very quickly and before you can say “by-election defeat”, it would be given the green light. Then Fox could lap up the local plaudits and improve his chance of getting re-elected. He’s been an MP for 30 years, so he’s well past the point of getting a full MP’s pension (20 years as an MP if you would like to know) anyway, so losing and retiring gracefully wouldn’t be that bad an option either.

But he doesn’t like his constituents that much, so he won’t!

[East End Old Boy]

9 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

You know the best way to make the Portishead line happen and a decision made earlier? For Liam Fox to resign. That would focus top Tory minds very quickly and before you can say “by-election defeat”, it would be given the green light. Then Fox could lap up the local plaudits and improve his chance of getting re-elected. He’s been an MP for 30 years, so he’s well past the point of getting a full MP’s pension (20 years as an MP if you would like to know) anyway, so losing and retiring gracefully wouldn’t be that bad an option either.

But he doesn’t like his constituents that much, so he won’t!

Liam Fox is actually working with a Bristol South Labour MP to try and get this moving. The recent adjournment debate was a win which has helped the current move forward!

[winsaw]

3 hours ago, TomF said:

This just sounds a rehash of the news from a month ago. The date of 19/2/23 is the end of the 6 month extension for a decision to be made. They don’t need to wait till then 

Agree the whole point of waiting was so that funding could be sorted out, now that's all sorted they should just green light it, 

[winsaw]

5 hours ago, Monkeh said:

All the stuff taken out can be added at a later date, the important thing is getting trains running

But it will be much harder and more expensive,

Making the stations on the line 5 coaches from the off and with the ability to pass trains at Pill so 30 minutes service could be attached when busy is what they should be aiming for,

A good comparison would be borders rail in Scotland a line they reopened to Tweedbank they did it as cheep as possible and it's proved to be mush more popular than expected so now the basic way it was built is not up to the level needed, so they are going to have to spend a lot of money to run longer and more frequent trains, it's like these politicians don't learn, 

[Redtucks]

6 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Does it really surprise you?

I remember reading a comment by someone on the reason Ashton Gate station wouldn't go ahead.
Too busy on Saturdays and not busy enough during the week. 
That line and the Portishead line would be ideal for a Tram system like around Man City's ground surely.

I remember several years ago at the Senior Reds, when the first plans of the Ashton Gate indoor arena/hotels etc. were announced, that an Ashton Gate Halt was a part of the plan and that BCFC/Steve Lansdown were prepared to pay for it.

 

[Dr Balls]

8 hours ago, TomF said:

I believe there is a whole project cost review to see if they can save some money elsewhere to possibly not have to take cost cutting measures elsewhere.  It’s not like Shapps is going to do anything while recess is on anyway 

@TomFit’s not like Grant Shapps has done anything at all so far other than dither and delay. All the money has been pledged, all he has to do is sign it off ASAP. However you and I know that he won’t do anything until the last moment possible, assuming that there isn’t some other bump along the way.

@East End Old BoyI am not saying that Liam Fox hasn’t tried to push things forward, and that he has vented his frustration at the whole process, but the reality is that as far as the Tory party are concerned, the South West is not their focus, so funding and projects down here are not a priority. The assumption is that us bumpkins will continue to tug our forelocks and vote for them, come what may. A concentrating of minds is what is needed - and Dr Fox taking the “nuclear option” would certainly do that!

[Slippin cider]

10 hours ago, archie andrews said:

like i said earlier if this was germany or japan it would be built by now.....effing get on with it

Or pretty much any other UK city ….

[Never to the dark side]

please register for your smart cards

https://www.gwr.com/your-tickets/smart-tickets/touch

[East End Old Boy]

2 hours ago, Never to the dark side said:

please register for your smart cards

https://www.gwr.com/your-tickets/smart-tickets/touch

They started issuing these years ago, can finally start using it!

[Dr Balls]

16 minutes ago, East End Old Boy said:

They started issuing these years ago, can finally start using it!

And at least another 3-4 years before it will get you to Portishead!

[East End Old Boy]

8 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

And at least another 3-4 years before it will get you to Portishead!

Sadly you’re not wrong! 

[East End Old Boy]

9 hours ago, TomF said:

Can you just not use the app?

It would make sense if the card could be added to a phone’s wallet, which currently isn’t the case!

[WarksRobin]

Article on the New Civil Engineer website today:

Council sets out new funding plans for Portishead line restoration

North Somerset District Council has outlined its updated funding plans for the proposed Portishead line after it was revealed that delays in the planning process have pushed up the cost of restoring the line.

Last month the West of England Combined Authority (WECA) confirmed that the cost of the project has risen to £152M, meaning an additional £35.6M is needed. When plans were first submitted the cost of restoring the rail line to Bristol was estimated to be in the region of £116.4M.

The WECA has since committed an extra £10M to the scheme, the council has committed another £10M and the Department for Transport (DfT) is to provide the remaining £15.6M.

As part of the planning process, the council has now set out its updated funding breakdown (see below). MetroWest Phase 1 programme manager James Willcock added that the expectation is that the decision on the project's development consent order (DCO) application can now be made "no later" than 14 November 2022.

He said: "From a scheme delivery perspective, a DCO decision sooner than 14 November 2022 would be helpful."

The council added that based on the funds now available, if the DCO is granted, "there is no reason to believe that [...] the DCO scheme will not proceed due to there being insufficient funding".

 

According to the WECA, the cost hike has been caused by "delays to approval of the scheme’s DCO and unprecedented global increases to the cost of energy, labour and construction materials".

Back in late 2019, North Somerset District Council received approval from the Planning Inspectorate to examine plans for the scheme to restore rail services to the MetroWest branch line between Bristol and Portishead. Since then, the scheme has overcome many planning hurdles to satisfy National Trust, National Highways and the Environment Agency.

However, it is yet to receive planning sign off from transport secretary Grant Shapps, who has twice delayed his decision on the development consent order application.

In April, Shapps said that he was “of a mind” to approve the scheme, but requested more information on costs before giving the green light.

West of England metro mayor Dan Norris has previously labelled the DfT’s concerns about the project as “groundless”.

 

The WECA and North Somerset Council project would be delivered in partnership with Network Rail.

Network Rail launched a search for contractors to build the proposed Portishead to Pill rail line in February last year.

[Slippin cider]

I will be very surprised if this actually goes ahead .

[pillred]

56 minutes ago, Slippin cider said:

I will be very surprised if this actually goes ahead .

With inflation touted to hit 20% next year and no end in sight to the end of the war in Ukraine pushing up fuel and transport costs I am afraid I have to agree, can you imagine what the final cost will be by 2026 rarely has any largescale project in this country ever come in on anything approaching the original budget, I give you HS2! 

[WarksRobin]

1 minute ago, pillred said:

With inflation touted to hit 20% next year and no end in sight to the end of the war in Ukraine pushing up fuel and transport costs I am afraid I have to agree, can you imagine what the final cost will be by 2026 rarely has any largescale project in this country ever come in on anything approaching the original budget, I give you HS2! 

You never hear about projects that come in on time and budget. It does happen but doesn't lend itself to sensational headlines.

HS2 is currently on budget. I suspect you are referring to the budget increase over the original cost estimate.

[pillred]

2 hours ago, WarksRobin said:

You never hear about projects that come in on time and budget. It does happen but doesn't lend itself to sensational headlines.

HS2 is currently on budget. I suspect you are referring to the budget increase over the original cost estimate.

Yes it's at least double the original estimate, which is why the current estimate of the cost of the Portishead line should be ignored as it will almost certainly be at least double by 2026. And very few large projects ever come in on budget, can you name me one?

Edited August 31, 2022 by pillred
Spelling

[James54De]

25 minutes ago, pillred said:

Yes it's at least double the original estimate, which is why the current estimate of the cost of the Portishead line should be ignored as it will almost certainly be at least double by 2026. And very few large projects ever come in on budget, can you name me one?

So many large government and council funded projects come in on time and on budget. Do you realise how many ‘large’ projects there actually are? The few that you can name that have come in way over and years late are recognisable for that reason.