Lee Johnson - Time To Go

[phantom]

22 minutes ago, SX227 said:

We all pretty much knew Flint, Bryan and Reid were off. A new keeper was very much on the cards.

Mags and Djuric not so much, but O'Neil, Steele,the loanees etc were all planned.

Have to pull you up on this @SX227

Mags wanted out for a long time due to the way he was being mishandled at the club.

The offers from abroad came in a long time before the end of the season

[Monkeh]

14 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Are you able to prove that @Alessandro

If those aforementioned strikers hadn't been all injured in pre-season you actually think Reid would've started ahead of them? Laughable.

are you able to prove it wasn't?

[Alessandro]

11 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Are you able to prove that @Alessandro

If those aforementioned strikers hadn't been all injured in pre-season you actually think Reid would've started ahead of them? Laughable.

Prove what? Can you prove what you’re saying is anything beyond a cynical hunch?

LJ made a decision to move Bobby forward in pre-season. It was spoken about pre-season and he started the first game up front with Famara. Where is the debate? 

Those quotes were made long before Bobby became a £10m, 20 goal a season championship forward.

Even if, hypothetically, we were struggling for forwards pre-season, credit still goes to LJ for identifying those attributes in Bobby and then preparing, facilitating and coaching him into the player we sold.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

17 hours ago, spudski said:

The reason Bryan, Flint and Reid have left was because they all grew under LJs management. They developed...we stood out in games, and those individuals shone in certain games. We got noticed on the wider public stage. Other managers took note and were prepared to pay far more wages, and those players took the opportunity to either play in the Premium and get much more money, or in Flints case more money.

All were offered contracts...nothing amiss at the club...you aren't going to keep players if you can't match the wages or stop players wanting to challenge themselves at a higher level.

 

 

17 hours ago, spudski said:

Players aren't going to hang around if offered much more wages and play straight away in the Premium on the off chance that we might go up. It's a job with a short career...you take it when it comes along. You only need to get crocked one week and it's game over...or you lose form. 

See it through the eyes of a player who sees it purely as a job and not as a fan

I think just about everybody sees that every word you say is true, because of course it's obvious.

The problem for me is I personally saw that all 3 of the named players seemed after the January window to become visibly frustrated and resigned to a realisation that BCFC were never going to match their personal ambitions, not one of those 3 played the rest of the season with a smile on their face and after such a great start to our season up until January I believe that the failure to properly invest in the squad to at least 'give it go' was a huge mistake, as a fan I was not in the slightest surprised that all 3 have gone and I fully believe that they have all made correct decisions, the opportunity we had last season don't and won't come around that often and we never even gave it go.

And as I posted on another thread, what happens next season when prem clubs and 'ambitious' championship clubs come calling for Webster, Pack and Brownhill and what the season after for Kelly and a couple of others who have broken through and so on and so forth?

I don't want to see the club spunk money on trying to buy success because we all know that doesn't always work but what I would like to see is next time we come to January in a position to at least give it go let's give the impression that we are going to actually give it a go.

[The Constant Rabbit]

11 minutes ago, phantom said:

Have to pull you up on this @SX227

Mags wanted out for a long time due to the way he was being mishandled at the club.

The offers from abroad came in a long time before the end of the season

Oh, agreed, I was expecting the move after the WC, not before though.

More exposure, leading to a better price. However, it gave us extra time to replace him, making the fact that we didn't (get a cultured 'play from the keeper' ball-player) even worse......

 

@Monkeh what exactly are you rubbishing? Transfers, LJ's role - at least pick out a bit - it was a VERY long post!

[Monkeh]

5 minutes ago, SX227 said:

Oh, agreed, I was expecting the move after the WC, not before though.

More exposure better price!

 

@Monkeh what exactly are you rubbishing? Transfers, LJ's role - at least pick out a bit - it was a VERY long post!

the "It's almost like it's just enough to keep us in the champ, pocket some ££ to make the books look better, and wait for some land to be re-zoned." 

and giant for sale sign, as well as the opening bit about lack of a plan

The grand plan is the same and has been for a very long time, stems back to the 5 pillars that we've pretty much stuck to since it was announced

buy young develop sell for a profit, we were told not to get too attached to players,

People still refuse to listen to that

[The Constant Rabbit]

3 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

the "It's almost like it's just enough to keep us in the champ, pocket some ££ to make the books look better, and wait for some land to be re-zoned." 

and giant for sale sign, as well as the opening bit about lack of a plan

The grand plan is the same and has been for a very long time, stems back to the 5 pillars that we've pretty much stuck to since it was announced

buy young develop sell for a profit, we were told not to get too attached to players,

People still refuse to listen to that

Where am I disagreeing with that?

I agreed that the 'big 3 ' had to go - for a good price too. Note the 'rinse and repeat' - we will sell the best players again next year for profit.

How do Watkins, DaSilva and Maapeena fit in the 5 pillars? They don't - age and loanee.

The 'for sale' sign refers to the Franchise being up for sale in the not-too-distant-future.

As for a lack of planning - do you think that LJ got the players he wanted for his stated style of play, especially with the time at his disposal? You have stated over and over that they were off from last Jan - surely 7 months is enough time to identify who he needs?

I have actually agreed with everything you wrote above - perhaps you just skimmed through?

[Kid in the Riot]

14 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

are you able to prove it wasn't?

I know what I know monkeh and it was not some great, pre-meditated decision by LJ to play Reid up front for the 2017/18 season. He didn't suddenly have an epiphany that Reid would make a great striker, he was forced by circumstance to play him in that position and it then went very well for both the player and head coach. Simple as that. Credit is of course due to LJ for sticking with him in that position when even after his good start to the season he could've dropped him/moved him back into MF. 

[sh1t_ref_again]

Cant be bothered to look back, but no doubt the same people rubbishing LJ now and did also when he said BR would be a £5m player, 

Well you were correct, he was wrong and did not know what he was talking about, he is a £10m player

[Red-Robbo]

7 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I know what I know monkeh and it was not some great, pre-meditated decision by LJ to play Reid up front for the 2017/18 season. He didn't suddenly have an epiphany that Reid would make a great striker, he was forced by circumstance to play him in that position and it then went very well for both the player and head coach. Simple as that. Credit is of course due to LJ for sticking with him in that position when even after his good start to the season he could've dropped him/moved him back into MF. 

 

I'm with Kid on this. The injuries meant Bob was bunged up front as a makeweight striker for the pre-season and he seized his chance to prove to Lee that he should start there. His success in those friendlies could not be ignored.

Some of us had advocated trying this move for a long time, myself included, but it was circumstances rather than strategy that led LJ into doing so.

[redordead1]

17 minutes ago, SX227 said:

 

The 'for sale' sign refers to the Franchise being up for sale in the not-too-distant-future.

Curious about this? Is this a hunch of yours SX227 or have you heard/seen more to suggest this is their plan?

[Cowshed]

4 hours ago, Robbored said:

Did he?  

My recollection is that BR played most, if not all of last season as a striker and that LJ had seen the quality of Reid’s finishing  in training matches and decided to play him up top.

 

Yes he did, without wanting to sound panto like. Lee Johnson said he HAD to play Reid as a centre forward due to injuries, or you can alternatively believe he signed multiple forward options costing millions then played Bobby Reid instead. 

Johnson shifted Bobby Reid out of his most successful role when Famara was fit. That was always to be the teams primary approach - Famara up top. The teams shape was thus altered to accommodate this and Reid despite his success was played deeper. 

Mr Johnson did make reference to metrics, they indicted Bobby Reid could play the role he did, but City's former high press and the energetic Reid as its trigger was not the result of meticulous planning, it involved high elements of chance. 

As I pointed out previously Reid had no replacement in that role, none in an entire squad - It was never the intent to play in that manner as a long term, further underlined by January's signings which moved the team way from a fast passing high pressing style.

[CyderInACan]

@oldstandrobin as discussed 

[Tin Soldier]

@SX227 long post pretty much nailed it for me.

Three key players realised there was a lack of ambition in that Jan transfer window by the club, got pissed off/threw there toys out the window/ played at 80% capacity for the rest of the season, call it what you like - and all left the club. We should have been a nailed on certainty for a playoff position,.

We are left with a shambles IMO, lack of direction and poorly managed by LJ who keeps tinkering. Yes the season has just started, but the omens loook bad. Still trying to have faith with Johnson, but running out of patience fast TBH.

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

 

I think just about everybody sees that every word you say is true, because of course it's obvious.

The problem for me is I personally saw that all 3 of the named players seemed after the January window to become visibly frustrated and resigned to a realisation that BCFC were never going to match their personal ambitions, not one of those 3 played the rest of the season with a smile on their face and after such a great start to our season up until January I believe that the failure to properly invest in the squad to at least 'give it go' was a huge mistake, as a fan I was not in the slightest surprised that all 3 have gone and I fully believe that they have all made correct decisions, the opportunity we had last season don't and won't come around that often and we never even gave it go.

And as I posted on another thread, what happens next season when prem clubs and 'ambitious' championship clubs come calling for Webster, Pack and Brownhill and what the season after for Kelly and a couple of others who have broken through and so on and so forth?

I don't want to see the club spunk money on trying to buy success because we all know that doesn't always work but what I would like to see is next time we come to January in a position to at least give it go let's give the impression that we are going to actually give it a go.

It's easy to think like that as a fan...but we simply don't know the in's and out's of what had been discussed with these players, who had made contact, what was agreed, what money was available, who we contacted, who turned us down, what we had planned for this summer etc, etc, etc. So many anomalies that get overlooked by the fans.

I read this forum and things are written, whilst logical from a fans perspective, make no sense at all from a football clubs perspective and how it runs, and how contract negotiations are dealt with. Nobody knows the agents talk, the money being spoken of, the constant turning of heads by agents etc.

I've seen names banded around on here, saying we should of bought him, we should have gone after him etc...knowing we actually have, and they turned us down for either personal reasons, or money etc.

Fans think of it like a shopping list...like we are going buying in a player supermarket.

we are dealing with human beings, with families, agents, money motivated often...it's not so easy to just bring in people you want. It often depends on many circumstances falling into place.

And with the restrictions and blue print we have at this club, it's made even harder for short term success...but in the long term I think we will slowly get stronger.

[MATT BCFC]

This topic will look pretty ridiculous if we win tomorrow..  

[JasonM88]

Now that the rubbish reaction has been disabled on here, they have all been changed to likes. It now appears that the op has lots of likes. Mods, sort this out. 

[KnowleUtd City]

Sadly so many of you are deluded on here, I can only assume that a good section have only started watching City fairly recently and don't understand where we have been over the years, we are making good progress as a club, the negativity on here is laughable, no wonder all the lads down the ground think this forum is a joke. Get a grip, and get behind the side.

[Alan Dicks]

5 minutes ago, MATT BCFC said:

This topic will look pretty ridiculous if we win tomorrow..  

What if we're in the bottom 3 at christmas?

Has he got it in him to arrest the dropping stone that we have witnessed since Christmas some 8 months ago?

We shall see soon enough, my guess is he hasn't got it in him, hope he proves me wrong.

[Alessandro]

58 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Yes he did, without wanting to sound panto like. Lee Johnson said he HAD to play Reid as a centre forward due to injuries, or you can alternatively believe he signed multiple forward options costing millions then played Bobby Reid instead. 

Johnson shifted Bobby Reid out of his most successful role when Famara was fit. That was always to be the teams primary approach - Famara up top. The teams shape was thus altered to accommodate this and Reid despite his success was played deeper. 

Mr Johnson did make reference to metrics, they indicted Bobby Reid could play the role he did, but City's former high press and the energetic Reid as its trigger was not the result of meticulous planning, it involved high elements of chance. 

As I pointed out previously Reid had no replacement in that role, none in an entire squad - It was never the intent to play in that manner as a long term, further underlined by January's signings which moved the team way from a fast passing high pressing style.

All sounds plausible until you realise that you're facts are wrong.

Who started up front for at least the first 8/10 games of the season?

Bobby and Famara.

So i'm not sure where all this, Bobby only played because Famara was injured. Bobby had a full pre-season up top and was prepared ready to go into that shifted position.

Ultimately people will believe what they want. Chinese whispers, hunches, suspicions. LJ got lucky etc etc.

But it's the same people who criticise the club and/or manager at almost every opportunity, so we can take their "In the know" wink wink's with a pinch of salt.

As I say, even if hypothetically LJ's hand was somewhat forced into pushing someone else from the squad forward because of injuries, they still identified and developed Bobby for that role. Either way, it's documented publicly, by the manager and player, very early on in the season, what the plan was, even before he scored 20 goals. But people will still argue those facts.

Credit where credit is due is clearly too much for some.

[redordead1]

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's easy to think like that as a fan...but we simply don't know the in's and out's of what had been discussed with these players, who had made contact, what was agreed, what money was available, who we contacted, who turned us down, what we had planned for this summer etc, etc, etc. So many anomalies that get overlooked by the fans.

I read this forum and things are written, whilst logical from a fans perspective, make no sense at all from a football clubs perspective and how it runs, and how contract negotiations are dealt with. Nobody knows the agents talk, the money being spoken of, the constant turning of heads by agents etc.

I've seen names banded around on here, saying we should of bought him, we should have gone after him etc...knowing we actually have, and they turned us down for either personal reasons, or money etc.

Fans think of it like a shopping list...like we are going buying in a player supermarket.

we are dealing with human beings, with families, agents, money motivated often...it's not so easy to just bring in people you want. It often depends on many circumstances falling into place.

And with the restrictions and blue print we have at this club, it's made even harder for short term success...but in the long term I think we will slowly get stronger.

Sorry, but what a load of waffle. 

Successful football clubs, businesses and individuals all create an identity, way of playing, a clear value proposition or USP in business and a career path, ambition for individuals or players and set out to achieve it with purpose and drive.

It goes without saying that there are going to be hurdles and distractions as you (a little patronisingly) list above to overcome, but the ones who are successful build on momentum, create exceptional team spirit and keep hold of their winners by reflecting their hunger to succeed. The rest just make excuses for why they can't be succesful. You mention shopping lists in the above. Ironically, your post reads as a perfect example of a shopping list full of excuses one could use. It could have been written for MA and SL. 

As many others have said, the sad reality is that we've not shown enough ambition to keep hold of our best players, we have failed to build on the incredible momentum we achieved, firstly with Cotts, secondly in Jan and have failed to invest in real quality or experience. Perplexingly, BS have adopted the complete opposite strategy with the Rugby. We will see who progresses further this season.

I agree with EMB and many others who think we've let a huge opportunity slip through our fingers and the fall-out is only part way through being realised.

[Robin Ashton]

31 minutes ago, JasonM88 said:

Now that the rubbish reaction has been disabled on here, they have all been changed to likes. It now appears that the op has lots of likes. Mods, sort this out. 

Bins bin binned?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

46 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's easy to think like that as a fan...but we simply don't know the in's and out's of what had been discussed with these players, who had made contact, what was agreed, what money was available, who we contacted, who turned us down, what we had planned for this summer etc, etc, etc. So many anomalies that get overlooked by the fans.

I read this forum and things are written, whilst logical from a fans perspective, make no sense at all from a football clubs perspective and how it runs, and how contract negotiations are dealt with. Nobody knows the agents talk, the money being spoken of, the constant turning of heads by agents etc.

I've seen names banded around on here, saying we should of bought him, we should have gone after him etc...knowing we actually have, and they turned us down for either personal reasons, or money etc.

Fans think of it like a shopping list...like we are going buying in a player supermarket.

we are dealing with human beings, with families, agents, money motivated often...it's not so easy to just bring in people you want. It often depends on many circumstances falling into place.

And with the restrictions and blue print we have at this club, it's made even harder for short term success...but in the long term I think we will slowly get stronger.

I'm sorry but I read nothing that addresses what I posted, yes I am a fan but I saw exactly what I posted and that cannot just be swept under the carpet as not being important or relevant. 

Between January and May the living shit seemed to have totally drained from the club on the field, it was not a happy place in any way shape or form, arguments between players ensued, it looked to me like amateur hour at times, nobody especially the 3 said players played with a smile on their face, I remember a rare Pack goal during that period and barely anybody celebrated with him.

City had from September until January to plan for the window and for once the planning should have been for a promotion/play off for once and not a relegation battle, our stock was high, a great run taking us 2nd in the table and resulting in extra live TV games, we were beating all comers in the league cup (I can't spell Carabao) and that gave us even more TV exposure and the window was an unmitigated disaster and even SL in his diplomatic way made mention of it and from February 1st the joy just left the playing staff and it was clearly visible, in fact it looked as though we were going through the motions.

Me I rarely if ever suggest signings, I may post that so and so is being tracked by another club etc. however whatever the problems of running a modern football club and it's burgeoning gravy trains of agents and it's speculations and politics, it was a golden opportunity that was missed and we brought in 3 punts and it proved to be the straw that broke the camels back for our 3 star players IMO and sucked the joy out of our play, I could have forgiven even a modest type of investment + a few more experienced loans, at least we would have seemed to be having a go but we didn't do that, it was unambitious and probably sent out the wrong message to potential future signings.

None of what you posted is the fault of the fans and I don't recall that fans needed a degree to understand why their club went from where we were to where we finished in such a short space of time, I am not suggesting the modern game makes it easy to run a club or sign players, that is why we employ the likes of Ashton on a hefty salary.

For what it's worth I agree with your final sentence, with one proviso, at least attempt to take your chances as they occur, you may never get another.

One final point I believe the fans are confused, confused because they don't really know the full ambition of our club, because it seems to change from season to season, for instance we spend over 5 mil on a striker and for us that's ambition and having gotten into a great position, we don't even have a moderate go to go all the way.

 

 

[joe jordans teeth]

How many rubbish reactions did the OP get in the end because they seem to have disappeared and I was finding it quite funny 

[Red 90]

Our current philosophy at the club seems to be buying young up and coming talent on the cheap (not proven at championship level but shown signs of promise) and then loan them out until they are 'ready'.

How great would it be if we could do that with our manager as well!! Loan him out and bring him back when he's learnt from his mistakes and ready to be a manager at this level! 

Although many of the happy clappers will rubbish this post and come back with 'were only 2 games in rubbish' this is based on his last 26 league games and more! (I'll let him off the 4 cup defeats to Man City, Watford and Plymouth)

Won 5

Drawn 11

lost 10

win rate of 19%.. If he repeats this form over the next 26 games I wonder how many of you will still be a #JohnsonIn

 

[Top Robin]

2 hours ago, reddogkev said:

So, this is the first genuine LJ out thread, presented to us by Londoner the Fisher Troll; my question is how many more of these will we have to endure during the season?

Each single LJ out thread always has the exact same responses, it really is old ground and has been done to death, reincarnated, and then to death again... will these threads ever stop?

But, Londoner, really, to start this thread after 3 games is an absolute embarrassment. Still, it's rumbled on for 7 pages, which suggests this highly controversial topic will always be an OTIB best-seller!

I think you know that Londoner would not have started this thread if it was based purely on the first three games of this season....clearly his and many other people's frustrations have built up over a sustained 8 month bad spell which seems to be continuing into this new season......the performances so far are a long way from what they were up to Christmas last year.

I can take a poor run of maybe 4 or 5 games which a decent manger would have the ability to change, but our form has been really poor for many more than that and the signs are that it isn't turning around.

As a true supporter of this club who invests serious amounts of time and money following them every week, I (and Londoner) have the absolute right to criticise and urge for action to be taken to address the problem to get us playing better football and In turn achieve success for the benefit of the club and supporters alike. 

 

[ScottishRed]

2 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

 

I think just about everybody sees that every word you say is true, because of course it's obvious.

The problem for me is I personally saw that all 3 of the named players seemed after the January window to become visibly frustrated and resigned to a realisation that BCFC were never going to match their personal ambitions, not one of those 3 played the rest of the season with a smile on their face and after such a great start to our season up until January I believe that the failure to properly invest in the squad to at least 'give it go' was a huge mistake, as a fan I was not in the slightest surprised that all 3 have gone and I fully believe that they have all made correct decisions, the opportunity we had last season don't and won't come around that often and we never even gave it go.

And as I posted on another thread, what happens next season when prem clubs and 'ambitious' championship clubs come calling for Webster, Pack and Brownhill and what the season after for Kelly and a couple of others who have broken through and so on and so forth?

I don't want to see the club spunk money on trying to buy success because we all know that doesn't always work but what I would like to see is next time we come to January in a position to at least give it go let's give the impression that we are going to actually give it a go.

Agree with all of that.

I think the point you make about next summer is crucial.

As things stand any offers we may get for players will be accepted if they meet the valuation so 'rinse and repeat'.

For those of us hoping for promotion, and I understand that is not everyone, we have to accept that it is as far away as ever.

The plan will not result in promotion to the PL. It may result in difficulties in staying in this league!

I think a good few realized that our actions in January clearly highlighted the clubs ambitions.

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

16 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Agree with all of that.

I think the point you make about next summer is crucial.

As things stand any offers we may get for players will be accepted if they meet the valuation so 'rinse and repeat'.

For those of us hoping for promotion, and I understand that is not everyone, we have to accept that it is as far away as ever.

The plan will not result in promotion to the PL. It may result in difficulties in staying in this league!

I think a good few realized that our actions in January clearly highlighted the clubs ambitions.

 

Either that or we as SL alluded to "could have had a better window" and just got it plain wrong, I mentioned in another thread perhaps the surplus from our sales this summer are in the piggy bank ready for either a relegation or play off push type January window, I wait with baited breath but I suspect you have nailed it.

[Baldyman]

I think that the fans general feeling of negativity is born out of our history at this level . We've traditionally faded after 2 or 3 seasons at this level , quite simply because the Club has never truly believed that it can get to the top table and has therefore NEVER truly pushed to get there . The fans see this apathy and start getting twitchy , in turn creating a tense atmosphere at the Gate and so the prophecy becomes self fulfilling .  I fear the club has perhaps shot itself in the foot pre season by not investing sufficiently whilst pulling in millions from sales and ave set a very negative tone from the word go . I've seen it so many times with us at this level unfortunately

[Alan Dicks]

3 hours ago, ... said:

Get off Lee Johnson's back.

GET OUT OF LEE JOHNSON'S BACKSIDE