How long has Pearson got left?

[Davefevs]

@billywedlock

@ray savino

Wise words

[Rich]

1 hour ago, harrys said:

We’ve missed the boat with the hungry young coaches that were available, they’re doing fine at Swansea, Forest & PNE 

I'm sure another young hungry coach will come along shortly, that's what happens. Would we make the correct selection though?

Swansea and Preston are currently 6 points better off than us, not too great an example. Of course they could get automatic next season. I'd think the Forest squad was superior to ours and, added to in January, something we couldn't afford to do.

[ray savino]

8 minutes ago, Rich said:

I'm sure another young hungry coach will come along shortly, that's what happens. Would we make the correct selection though?

Swansea and Preston are currently 6 points better off than us, not too great an example. Of course they could get automatic next season. I'd think the Forest squad was superior to ours and, added to in January, something we couldn't afford to do.

I think that Swansea have had a template in style of football and management since Martinez (about 15 years ago?). Hence them going for more progressive appointments like Martinez, Rodgers, Cooper, Potter, maybe Laudrup, and now Martin. They have veered off track with a couple of appointments, but gotta say they’ve had success and played some decent football.

Preston I’d say have been steady and flipped around a bit. Will be interesting to see how Lowe carries on. Yep, Forest had a better squad and Cooper has got them performing although with I guess some expensive loans (compared to us). If they don’t go up, will they be in the shit for FFP next year, unless they sell Johnson, etc. I don’t think Cooper would have come to us and work under the current restricted financial situation. He seemed to move on from Swansea as they seemed unwilling to put in the investment that he believed the squad needed to move on. Let’s not kid ourselves, Forest are a still bigger draw than us, however long since their glory days.

I would have been interested to have seen Lowe with us, given the task we have faced. As much as it would have been great to see what Cooper and Martin would have done with this City squad, not convinced they would have been much better and think the clubs they chose had either better players or club football strategy to suit them. In the future if we get sorted then who knows...

First the club has to demonstrate a visible plan and most importantly stick to it, unlike the last 7 years since Cotts well planned promotion season. Too many false dawns and shooting ourselves in the foot I think.

 

[RedRock]

7 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Well we had a hungry young coach . He left us with a 38 M loss and a squad you could not give away 

Far too superficial thinking we need a young coach . Age is far from a factor here . Some of the best are older . 

I would look more at how those clubs have been run , particularly recruitment. Forest have a pretty good squad , Swansea in transition but kept their eye on the ball , Preston very stable and clear in their player signings .

far more important , as a club , is that we recognise what creates a successful side and club . Define a plan that suits your situation and stick with it . We have been all over the place and are yet again paying the price . We are in recovery , a recovery that has a few more years to run . Tough hey but that is the mess created by that young hungry coach. Sadly that did not know what he was doing . 

 

Agree with most of that, but you may be seriously under-estimating Ashton’s role in our demise.

Of course, we don’t know how much Ashton was ‘controlled’ by SL. It could be given SLs silence over Ashton - aside from praising his input to the Training Complex - that the former CEO received quite a few orders from our owner. 

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Agree with most of that, but you may be seriously under-estimating Ashton’s role in our demise.

Of course, we don’t know how much Ashton was ‘controlled’ by SL. It could be given SLs silence over Ashton - aside from praising his input to the Training Complex - that the former CEO received quite a few orders from our owner. 

I honestly think it was the other way around, SL was completely hoodwinked by him, partly because his son didn’t have a clue what was going on at ground level.

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

I'm sure another young hungry coach will come along shortly, that's what happens. Would we make the correct selection though?

Swansea and Preston are currently 6 points better off than us, not too great an example. Of course they could get automatic next season. I'd think the Forest squad was superior to ours and, added to in January, something we couldn't afford to do.

Two perfect examples, 9 points off both of them now but the gap is far bigger than that as we all know, PNE were capable of doing the double over Bournemouth while we just downed tools twice, Swansea have had some great victories recently and were described as playing “champagne football” by the sky commentator last week, both these teams have bright new managers and also lost their best players in the summer to be replaced by free signings

[Waconda]

5 minutes ago, harrys said:

Two perfect examples, 9 points off both of them now but the gap is far bigger than that as we all know, PNE were capable of doing the double over Bournemouth while we just downed tools twice, Swansea have had some great victories recently and were described as playing “champagne football” by the sky commentator last week, both these teams have bright new managers and also lost their best players in the summer to be replaced by free signings

Proving that it is possible to rebuild your squad AND be competitive at the same time.

Excuses will be found though however ludicrous.

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 04/04/2022 at 15:22, Davefevs said:

I’ve never known it so quiet.

New Hummel deal, season tickets on sale….pretty much silence.  Maybe they’ve appointed @And Its Smithinto the media team

Why would they do that? He can’t even get “it’s” correct in his forum name???!!

[BS4 on Tour...]

13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Maybe, but I’d be prepared to see LJ in action under RG.  We can then judge him without excuse.

At the end of the day, I’ll back any City manager, I’ll praise and criticise objectively as I see fit.  Whoever is in charge needs support, the right set up, professionals, etc to succeed.  Mark Ashton was not a good fit (polite).

You’d welcome LJ back?! Good grief, please no ... just no! The majority of his signings were “one for the future” - farmed out on loan and then never heard of again - 2nd in January, 11th in May ... he oversaw that sort of capitulation a couple of times, he defo doesn’t have what it takes to get us over the line and to the next level - plus, when hearing him interviewed I can’t understand a bl**dy word he’s saying - never want to see LJ at the helm again ...

[BS4 on Tour...]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Back pedal?  Still got me stabilisers on

So i hear….don’t blame him.  His dad didn’t have a great time there.

What’s his Dad’s experience at Posh got to do with it? Darren Ferguson seemed to think it was an attractive enough environment to go back three times!

[RobintheRed Red]

13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

 

All very valid comments, some of which I agree with.

As I said, it just wouldn’t surprise me, he’s “very out there” in the media at the mo’, and I could see SL picking up on that.

Hope he does it before I renew then Dave that would finish me off . Cant put up with no more of that .

[Davefevs]

23 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

You’d welcome LJ back?! Good grief, please no ... just no! The majority of his signings were “one for the future” - farmed out on loan and then never heard of again - 2nd in January, 11th in May ... he oversaw that sort of capitulation a couple of times, he defo doesn’t have what it takes to get us over the line and to the next level - plus, when hearing him interviewed I can’t understand a bl**dy word he’s saying - never want to see LJ at the helm again ...

“Prepared” didn’t say “welcome”, but i am mindful that sometimes wrong place, wrong time can apply too.  It was more a case of “if he did come back” rather than advocating it per se.

21 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

What’s his Dad’s experience at Posh got to do with it? Darren Ferguson seemed to think it was an attractive enough environment to go back three times!

Can’t recall Alex Ferguson managing Peterborough  

[Guest]

Only time will tell if our owners latest decision to employ NP is a good one or not, niether of their records/choices at this club to date, fills me with hope.

Lost count of the many summer/xmas transfer windows that have been given to various managers to rebuild and go again.

So we are where we are, tough next season coming up we will need to improve the team, the spirit and belief to still be in the championship at the end of it.

 

[Davefevs]

52 minutes ago, gl2 said:

Only time will tell if our owners latest decision to employ NP is a good one or not, niether of their records/choices at this club to date, fills me with hope.

Lost count of the many summer/xmas transfer windows that have been given to various managers to rebuild and go again.

So we are where we are, tough next season coming up we will need to improve the team, the spirit and belief to still be in the championship at the end of it.

 

Re rebuild, how many players has Pearson signed for the 3 year plan?

Atkinson

Tanner

Weimann (re-sign)

James

Just 4. Finances have dictated a slow rebuild.

Simpson, King, Klose were temporary / transitional. Baker (re-sign) mid-term.

Nowhere near being his team yet in reality. 

[Waconda]

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Re rebuild, how many players has Pearson signed for the 3 year plan?

Atkinson

Tanner

Weimann (re-sign)

James

Just 4. Finances have dictated a slow rebuild.

Simpson, King, Klose were temporary / transitional. Baker (re-sign) mid-term.

Nowhere near being his team yet in reality. 

Yep he has signed 8 players (however you fudge it).

Not a massive amount and Weimann, Klose and Atkinson have been a success.

Recruitment has to improve immensely in the Summer but in the meantime there is absolutely no reason (quality wise) that this current squad could not be competitive whilst the rebuild goes on.

Both can happen the same time !

[swanker]

I like Pearson and I’m looking forward to next season. 

[SecretSam]

Pearson clearly has a longer-term plan in place, there's a real structure behind the scenes (medical team, scouting, coaching) and you can see the genesis of a concerted effort to bring the youngsters through.

But I think we need to be realistic - City are not a 'rich' club any more, not compared to the parachute clubs. We will sell this summer - it could be all 3 of HNM, Scott and Semenyo. Likewise, as @Davefevs and others have said, Kalas and Bentley may be off. That won't generate huge fees, but should release wages.

The key is what is the plan for using that money, or whatever proportion of it is made available? I think more signings like Atkinson and Tanner make sense. There's little risk there. And with many clubs in lower divisions cash-strapped still due to COVID and so forth, there have to be opportunities to pick up some decent players. Certainly, the experiment with signing tried and trusted ex-Leicester stalwarts has failed - none of King, Simpson and co have really made an impact. Back to the 4 pillars? (Or was it 5?)

[italian dave]

10 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

You’d welcome LJ back?! Good grief, please no ... just no! The majority of his signings were “one for the future” - farmed out on loan and then never heard of again - 2nd in January, 11th in May ... he oversaw that sort of capitulation a couple of times, he defo doesn’t have what it takes to get us over the line and to the next level - plus, when hearing him interviewed I can’t understand a bl**dy word he’s saying - never want to see LJ at the helm again ...

11th……2nd……heights we only dream of now….

[glynriley]

4 minutes ago, italian dave said:

11th……2nd……heights we only dream of now….

Ah yes, those heady days when we could spend (spunk..) millions of pounds on the likes of Liam Walsh, Hakeeb Adelakun & Marley Watkins, send them out on loan and release them all for nix.

A dream indeed.

[Waconda]

22 minutes ago, glynriley said:

Ah yes, those heady days when we could spend (spunk..) millions of pounds on the likes of Liam Walsh, Hakeeb Adelakun & Marley Watkins, send them out on loan and release them all for nix.

A dream indeed.

You forgot to mention Webster, Brownhill, Kelly, Bryan, Reid, Kodjia .

[glynriley]

4 minutes ago, Waconda said:

You forgot to mention Webster, Brownhill, Kelly, Bryan, Reid, Kodjia .

Why would I mention those 3 as signings when they came through the academy.

I see you also included a Cotterill signing, not relevant when discussing LJ.

[petehinton]

FWIW I also dont think it's going to end well if we start next season poorly. SL seems to blinkered (wouldn't go as far as deluded) because of the money he;s put in, it seems like in his head well funded = success.

Think it was on the 3PIAC episode or the club interview, where he said in 17/18 we should've got promoted, then said he thought we definitely should've been promoted in 18/19, if not at least made the play offs. Similar for 19/20. Based on what? Throwing loads of money at the wall and seeing what stayed? This is the hardest league to get out of in the world.

Add that with him basically holding up a for sale sign, JL saying he thinks we're under achieving & NP disagreeing, I don't think it's a great cocktail. There's also no way in hell SL lets NP be in/around relegation zone too, or even for NP to want to be here for that. Everyone says it's a 3 year plan/3 year deal so he'll stick with it for that, but there were also a lot of people who thought LJ had a job for life, and Holden had a 'free pass' for his first season due to no fans in stadiums.

I really wouldn't bank on Pearson being as bulletproof as is widely thought, rightly or wrongly. This summer and first half of next season are the biggest in my time supporting the club tbh, and not in a good way. Can we be reliant of Weimann to have a similar season next season? Very tough on him if so. Scott/Semenyo/Massengo key players that we'll struggle to replace, but we also need funds from them to bring more quality in across the board. 

[Sheltons Army]

2 hours ago, glynriley said:

Ah yes, those heady days when we could spend (spunk..) millions of pounds on the likes of Liam Walsh, Hakeeb Adelakun & Marley Watkins, send them out on loan and release them all for nix.

A dream indeed.

Wonder Coach inherited Cotts Promotion side , plus Kodja (And had us in a real relegation scrap 18 months into his ‘reign’, despite signings and Abraham’s goals)

Pearson inherited a demotivated , shambolic squad , lacking leaders or cohesion ....... the squad left behind by ...........Johnson & Holden

[Lew-T]

2 hours ago, Waconda said:

You forgot to mention Webster, Brownhill, Kelly, Bryan, Reid, Kodjia .

Let’s be honest, the only two hits LJ had out of 942 players was Brownhill and Webster.

 

[Waconda]

25 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Let’s be honest, the only two hits LJ had out of 942 players was Brownhill and Webster.

 

942 ?

I must have missed a few hundred signings.

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Re rebuild, how many players has Pearson signed for the 3 year plan?

Atkinson

Tanner

Weimann (re-sign)

James

Just 4. Finances have dictated a slow rebuild.

Simpson, King, Klose were temporary / transitional. Baker (re-sign) mid-term.

Nowhere near being his team yet in reality. 

Apart from Weimann, who was already here, in the areas NP has brought in his players those areas are now worse than what we had before he brought them in imo.

As prev stated half as many wins as defeats and the midfield is and weak verging on non exsistant, with the defence well, any sort of pressure and panic mode, does not bode well and after the asset stripping summer, well lets see.

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by gl2

[Rich]

17 hours ago, harrys said:

Two perfect examples, 9 points off both of them now but the gap is far bigger than that as we all know, PNE were capable of doing the double over Bournemouth while we just downed tools twice, Swansea have had some great victories recently and were described as playing “champagne football” by the sky commentator last week, both these teams have bright new managers and also lost their best players in the summer to be replaced by free signings

I made the mistake of looking at the City Site for the points totals on the printed table, didn't include last nights results. It's actually ten points above us.

To be quite honest, I couldn't give a toss about either of those clubs, the grass always being greener elsewhere. Do you honestly think either would have been able to do with getting rid of was it, fourteen players? And, would any of those mentioned ever chosen us over those clubs, at this time?

Our problems are much deeper and I'm pleased we have an experienced manager just about keeping us afloat. Everything spoken about regarding who would have done this, or who would have been better is all hypothetical. They aren't here, they most certainly wouldn't have come here and who'd have known if they'd done a better job here, or even a worse job. Pure speculation. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

7 hours ago, petehinton said:

FWIW I also dont think it's going to end well if we start next season poorly. SL seems to blinkered (wouldn't go as far as deluded) because of the money he;s put in, it seems like in his head well funded = success.

Think it was on the 3PIAC episode or the club interview, where he said in 17/18 we should've got promoted, then said he thought we definitely should've been promoted in 18/19, if not at least made the play offs. Similar for 19/20. Based on what? Throwing loads of money at the wall and seeing what stayed? This is the hardest league to get out of in the world.

Add that with him basically holding up a for sale sign, JL saying he thinks we're under achieving & NP disagreeing, I don't think it's a great cocktail. There's also no way in hell SL lets NP be in/around relegation zone too, or even for NP to want to be here for that. Everyone says it's a 3 year plan/3 year deal so he'll stick with it for that, but there were also a lot of people who thought LJ had a job for life, and Holden had a 'free pass' for his first season due to no fans in stadiums.

I really wouldn't bank on Pearson being as bulletproof as is widely thought, rightly or wrongly. 

Agree with you but, on Pearson, surely the cost of the sack and paying him off would make our terrible FFP position even worse.

Which is, literally, the last thing we should be doing. Lansdown isn't that daft, surely? If he only understands one thing, it's the cost of everything. 

Which makes Pearson relatively bulletproof at the moment, albeit by default! 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[Superjack]

23 hours ago, Rob k said:

It would intrigue the hell out of me - I’d love to see the difference without Ashton 

He didn't have Ashton at Sunderland.

And he still failed.

[Rob k]

9 minutes ago, Superjack said:

He didn't have Ashton at Sunderland.

And he still failed.

They were 3rd when he was sacked 2 points off the top, they are now 7th and 13 points off the top