spudski

So in that respect, you would take down all the statues in the vicinity of the amphitheatre in Rome and such like historical places. Why not leave the statues up including Colston's with a plaque educating people of his past. As it stands...the Colston statue is on its side, on the floor of the museum, and the info attached to it, is more about the people and reason why they removed it.

Because it's that thinking that's being promoted to being normal. It's not divisive at all. It's common sense. Why do people ignore the obvious comparisons, and try to fit a ' nuance'. ? That's pathetic. What we do in Bristol in trying to erase our connection with slavery is pathetic. It's simply putting a plaster over the obvious. Erasing it, so we can't be reminded of it. It's the equivalent of a kid sticking his fingers in his ears, shutting his eyes and screaming, so as to not see the truth.

Re Cornick...I would love to know what the process was in why we decided on getting him. As in...manager says 'I'm looking for this type of player'...analysts and Scouts find solution. And we end up with Cornick. I look at Bell and Conway from the Academy...and they are better players imo, even with less experience. I'm struggling to see what he brings to the side that we are missing or didn't already have internally. NP has always said he won't bring anyone for the sake of it, and that they have to be an upgrade to what we already have. What does he bring that is an upgrade or outstanding?

Christ mate...you should take up Politics...that's a talent deflecting and avoiding the question in plain English. If explained in plain English...you've twisted it and mentioned the word ' memorials'. Please don't be a dick...you are looking stupid now. It's a simple question and I've explained in simple terms.

I've not mentioned anything you've replied with. You've completely avoided everything I've put before you and changed the subject. As for Colston's statue...answer the question ..is he any worse than all the statues, buildings and monuments, tourists pay to visit and enjoy in the likes of Rome, Egypt, South America etc. Answer the question... don't deflect with something that hasn't been mentioned or even relevant.

You are completely missing the bigger picture. So if every local community decided to rip down everything related to slavery, war, overpowering, taking advantage of others...there would be pretty much nothing less in the world. The whole world has been built on taking advantage of others. As for your last question...yes...think about it. Put yourself in the deep south of America...the culture, money etc that came from slavery. Just think about the links that have come from it.

Yet everyone else I've mentioned and more is? The Stones music and many others, are based on the music that came out of the deep south and essentially the slave trade. A genre from the fields. Sung in churches and the music industry. Celebrated.

Kinnel...the hypocrisy on this thread is ridiculous. Imagine where we'd be if we hadn't had an owner who's ploughed £millions into the club over the years. He may not be ' Hollywood '...but still. Yes we could have had another owner...but money is essential. Chelsea and Man City come to mind in recent years as well. What's the difference?

Can I ask why you have a problem with Colston? Yes he was what he was at the time. But as I've pointed out in previous posts, there are numerous statues and such like around the world in place, glorifying them, who did far worse than Colston, yet we rock up as tourists and take photographs, pay for the privilege, enjoy the experience...typical Instagram photo...' here's me and my loved one inside the Rome Amphitheatre where they enslaved, killed, all for entertainment ' ?? Again...'here's me with my loved one photographed with the statue of a Caesar...who was worse than Hitler...isn't history amazing' ??? And this goes on around the world...tourist industries based on it. You can go down a whole rabbit hole with slavery... We are the tip of the iceberg. Imagine living in the States where Slavery was rife. The money and culture that came about in the deep south....even the music. Are you going to cancel the music that came from the cotton fields? Kinnel...the Stones might as well go drown themselves now if we are going to be so apologetic, as they've made a fortune from that.

Refs are poor...they have been all season. However we give them opportunities to make these poor decisions instead of doing better. It's so easy to blame the officials when they make poor decisions, however the move by us before should be looked at closer. Being where Vyner was, as a natural CB he would have let the ball roll across him and ' hoofed' it, instead of trying to take a touch. It was poor by him. Same can be said for Bell going down for a penalty...he didn't need to and could have gone on and scored. Both poor decisions imo...and a reflection of why we don't win games more.

Shocking decision by the Ref...but why give him the option...worse decision by Vyner with that first touch considering where he is and the opposition.

I mentioned this in another post about history, when it came to being documented... It was written as you say... propaganda...and often exaggerated or untrue. Yet still taught as correct. I find the whole view on the past...and apologising for it and feeling like we should be ashamed as very odd. We live in a time that is awakened some what...we can't compare to the past. We can't get our heads around it...but slavery was legal and normal. That's how people thought. We compare, because we have a complete view of the world. Back then they didn't. Let's bring football back into the context... Hartlepool are known as the monkey hangers, because a monkey was captured from a French ship...and the locals thought it was a French man and hanged it. This is the type of intelligence we are dealing with. You can't compare.

I completely agree with the sentiment in your last paragraph. It would be great if everyone did the same. Sadly a lot of cultures and beliefs are at odds with one another.

Personally I think the whole asylum process needs to change throughout the world. The amount of people being displaced every year is rising and predicted to do so. South Americans were some of the highest amount of applications to Europe in the last few months. It's simply unsustainable long term, to have so many heading to Europe, especially when there are other countries doing very little to take people in. I look at Sweden, which has taken the most people...and the negative affect its had on the country in a very short time. The number of people in Sweden born abroad has doubled in the last two decades to 2 million, or a fifth of the population. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/swedish-pm-says-integration-immigrants-has-failed-fueled-gang-crime-2022-04-28/ We are purely looking short term. We should be looking long term. Some really good info on here. https://www.nrc.no/shorthand/fr/a-few-countries-take-responsibility-for-most-of-the-worlds-refugees/index.html

RR...let's not make this diversive and about a them and us scenario. Being offended by something doesn't need the word ' woke' attached to it. As soon as you quote that word, it gets people riled. Inclusivity and education are better. Many people are offended for different reasons. https://upjourney.com/why-are-people-so-easily-offended This author in here video makes good points. https://time.com/5543441/stop-getting-offended/

Fair points. Perhaps it's the people who are easily offended by a statue or name who need to be re educated on how they should react to such things. Around the world, pretty much every statue, historic building, throughout cultures that built empires on overpowering other nations and enslaving them, still stand and remind everyone of how they were built. We don't wish to pull them down. No one is alive who endured the slave trade now. So why is anyone so offended that they feel the need to remove anything related to it? The whole world can be seen as pretty much offensive from its past....and present. Funnily this whole episode of erasing will become part of history. People will look back and think WTF were they thinking.

The 'slave trade' was well over before the opening of the port. The cotton for the mills came from Egypt. The Mills were pretty much run like the slave trade. Instead using the poor to work long hours in slave like conditions.

Knowledge is power. Learn from our mistakes, don't erase history, good or bad, and instead of trying to erase the past...educate...and focus on the present problems. Talk, don't erase, learn and don't make the same mistakes. That's how I see it. Sadly I don't think the world will ever change.

It's a shame...the canals should be used more for transportation of good, to get rid of traffic on the roads.

I didn't link it as it was already linked previously. The Wiki gives greater depth to the article.

I agree a plaque should have been put in place educating people of his history...both good and bad. I don't agree with pulling down statues and changing names. As it's not ' celebrating' imo. It's just history...in the same way as the Roman Empire. Both had evil elements. Overpowering other nations, enslaving them, and using the money and labour force to build their own empires. The same goes in today. We are all part of it. It's not in your face as owning a slave...but we all buy clothing, products and food from companies that use 'slave labour forces'. The nearest ones to home in many cases are these ' pop up car washes'.

Fair enough Dave. I agree poorly worded...but now it's out there, some will see the ship as a symbol of slavery. You now how some skim read. It's intended imo...an editor with no agenda would have corrected it. Manchester was once the third busiest shipping port in the UK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Manchester#:~:text=The ship canal transformed Manchester,port in the United Kingdom.

Talking about in correct context I'm all for Bob...the point of the OP was the leading context of the article that was poorly headlined, researched and written in a way that was just putting an idea in people's heads that is far from the truth. All good fella ?

Fair enough ???

Just to correct you RR. There are more slaves in the world right now, than ever traded during Colston's time. Still traded in markets. Still transported and taken from their homes. An estimated 50 million slaves. 1 in 200 people. And we bang on about the past and doing wrong. Yet it's happening worldwide now at bigger proportions ..but it's hardly headline news. https://www.euronews.com/2018/01/24/are-there-more-people-in-slavery-now-than-during-the-transatlantic-slave-trade- https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/25/modern-slavery-trafficking-persons-one-in-200