spudski

Nice way of avoiding the question ???

And history keeps getting re written and diluted every year we are further from it. So much mis information and theories from people wanting to make a buck from it. Yet when they find new evidence, that disproves previous theories, they very rarely get changed in the mainstream. As an example...who ' founded' the Americas. What we also have to remember with written history, is that it was the same back then as it is now...in as much as Politics and Religion were just as powerful and wrote down what they wanted people to believe, whether it was the truth or not. Agenda throughout history.

What did you find interesting about the article that you didn't already know? Ask yourself what I did...what is the point of the article? It's obviously a leading article. It has no proof the ships were used in the slave trade, but has now put the idea in people's heads that they may have been. The ship isn't even a symbol of slavery. But the headline of the article states it now is. It's complete bollox. ???? No offence if you think otherwise, but surely you can see that? Please let's not make this a left or right thing...this isn't about politics, hopefully...this about an issue many people from all walks of life have concerns about. I'd have made the OP regardless of who wrote it. Abandon ship: does this symbol of slavery shame Manchester and its football clubs?

So would you pull down all the statues of Caesars in Rome mate? Or the Amphitheatre?

What more is there to talk about our history with the slave trade? It's all out there. It's been well documented. I was taught about it at school. What more do we need to understand that we don't already know? We all know it was/ is wrong. We all know vast industries and people made vast amounts of money from the trade, and City's benefitted from it. We benefited from dirty money. Nothing wrong with learning about our history. But you learn not to make the same mistakes...not erase the memory. Pretty much every civilisation in the world has benefitted from slave labour. The Romans, Egyptians, Mayans, British Empire, etc etc etc So many City's, businesses, Crests all have an historical link to the slave trade. Visit Rome...what do you see...statues of leaders that were as bad as Hitler, enslaved people and used them build empires. We visit the Gladiator arena's, take pictures, are in awe of its grandeur. A whole tourist trade, making vast amounts of money, glorifying the empire built on enslaving people and destroying them. The same with Egypt and places in South America. Yet we pull down statues, re name streets and want to get rid of ships off badges. These people complaining, will all enjoy the wrongful benefits of our past across the world. And like I said...places have a vast tourist trade based around enslavement and killing. No one alive remembers the British slave trade. So how can someone be offended for all our past in the slave trade, but still enjoy all the grandeur of other empires built on enslaving people. It's hypocrisy of the highest order.

Firstly let me say I agree with your last two paragraphs. However...I think you are missing the point re...' what is the point of the article?' Various ships were used in slavery and transport of all products from around the world. If the Guardian were that concerned about the type of ship used in the Slave trade, they would have done more research and found out for themselves. They've purely contrived an article trying to shoe horn an idea, that maybe these types of ships were used in the slave trade. A quick Google and it shows like I said various types of masted ships were used. https://encyclopediavirginia.org/entries/slave-ships-and-the-middle-passage/#:~:text=American traders preferred somewhat smaller,to crew and cargo alike. It's a shoddy article, poorly researched, purely written to stir up more division and the idea to get rid of our history.

Surely a ship on a crest or badge is showing the City used ships to trade. We know the slave trade happened and ships and City ports were used. However...ships were used to pretty much transport everything. Every consumable from around the world and country. It was purely a mode of transport for goods. You have to question the mentality or agenda of the author, editor, owners who think ' I know let's write an article about ships on badges, because that mode of transport was used in the slave trade'. It's either complete madness...or imo, a pre meditated idea to stir up division. People say...' don't be dragged in'...but people are, especially the youngsters who read things like this for the first time. It's creating a generation who want to erase history, rather than learn from it. If the Guardian were really concerned about the slave trade, perhaps they should focus on the slave trade still happening in Libya. Millions of people enslaved every year, and it's been like it for centuries. What's even more shocking, is that Black Slaves released, went back to Africa and took on the culture of their former masters and enslaved black people to work for them. And millions of Europeans have been enslaved by the Barbary Raids.... But of course...the agenda just wants to ignore that. So why are we having to apologise for our past, when it's being continued by the people who are offended by it? Slavery of people is wrong...of all colours. Ships on badges is the least of our worries. A balanced view on slavery has to be taught. It still goes in, and all races are involved in it. They are all as bad as one another. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Libya

I agree...stories to create division. People see through it...however media give the stories traction. Which in turn lead to public discussion, which I've started on here. The discussion really is pointed at ludicrous nature of it all.

....anyone else seen this story created by the Guardian? Calling for Man City and Man Utd to remove the ship on their badges, as in someone's opinion, it has links to the Slave trade. ?? Obviously like the Bristol coat of arms, it's a link to the past of the City's industrial past. It won't be long before someone starts asking Bristol Council to remove the ship on the coat of arms, as someone will say it's a link to the slave trade. ?? Who are these people starting these stories? Who is financing it? Is the agenda purely to cause conflict amongst people to detract from major problems in the world? Guess it's a good thing City have a new badge...otherwise some **** would find a problem.

I wasn't insinuating that...however it's not very often a manager says who he supports.

When watching games across all levels, imo, the average standard of crosses, corners, set pieces is below what it used to be in the past. The delivery is often below par for what I'd expect from a Professional footballer, when compared to that of amateur football lower down the pryamids. However even with a cross into the box that has quality, you'll often have more defenders and a keeper that can use his arms and hands. Being able to jump, and use your hands negates a lot of what a cross brings. A pass is much more productive.

My football hero. The guy was a genius. Both as a player and coach imo.

Exactly that...going wide, or getting to the bye line and cutting back...making a pass, rather than a hopeful cross is far more productive. It does my noggin in, when we do all the hard work getting into a passing opportunity in the final third and we choose to cross. It doesn't make any sense. We construct our football in the build up with fine detail. Passing, moving, passing back so as not to lose possession, recycling etc etc...yet in the final third, ping a hopeful ball into the box, that usually has more defenders than forwards and a keeper that can come out and stretch and use his hands. It literally makes no sense to do it, especially when you look at the fine detail managers/ coaches go in to, when developing play before the final third. They do that...then make it a hopeful ball, with very low odds of scoring from. It makes no sense to do it. Managers want to control games...not make it a lottery.

That'll be interesting as Will is a massive Hammers fan

I had it placed in an Ew 6 horse accumulator yesterday. £5 Ew @ 62155.25/1 All came in placed apart from Heltenham the fav in the first. Gutted. Good day out yesterday. Some decent racing. And surprisingly good crowd. sadly only £140 up after the day. At least it paid for the rounds of Guinness at £7.50 a pint ???

Here are some statistical finds. https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/whats-point-crossing https://spielverlagerung.com/2015/06/22/an-ineffective-tool/ https://theathletic.com/2521493/2021/04/17/we-need-to-talk-about-crossing/ https://www.statsperform.com/resource/the-art-of-crossing/

I agree with your sentiments. Hence me saying he's a square peg in a round hole...

I think the other was King.

Imo...although his best position is up front, we have others that are equally as good. It's his engine, experience, willingness to run, and press that imo, gets him put deeper. Those parts of his game are great. Sadly...it's let down often, by his final ball when passing, controlling in the final third. It's often rushed, off balance, not composed, under or over hit, gambled.

I don't think so...it was more a cocky type of reaction to certain scenarios in the game, that didn't go to plan. Almost like it wasn't his fault...but others. Never seen his body language like that before this game. Hopefully a one off.

Harsh but true RR. As I pointed out his strengths. These are his weaknesses. You can see it with your eyes...and then it's underlined when listening to the commentary on the stream, when they also pick up on the same weakness. He shines when played up front. His final ball when contributing from a deeper position is less so.

Imo Weimann is the one man who often is played as a square peg in a round hole. He's at his best as an out and out striker playing central. He maybe not the best at the club in that position, but that's HIS best position. He has experience, he's respected, he gives 100%, he runs all day, he gives his all...so he gets put in the team in various positions. He runs his socks off. Yet for me...often a lot of the issues into the final third involve him. For all the good he does in other parts of the game, gets undone in the final third. Rushed, uncontrolled, not composed, over hit, under hit, trying to play glory balls often when unbalanced... You name it, he does it. So for all the good...the one bit we are missing, is final third composure. Which he often doesn't give. We'd be better off with a more measured player, playing behind the front three.

It's probably down to there being more defenders than strikers in the box and a GK. It's easy to defend against these days as teams are so well drilled.

So who are the two players he thought were day dreaming for their goal? https://www.bristolworld.com/sport/football/bristol-city/expect-more-nigel-pearson-verdict-after-bristol-city-loss-to-sheff-utd-4109473

Who knows.