MarcusX

It's not blind faith, my decisions and views are based on critical and logical thinking using evidence, data and expert opinion. I don't believe everything I'm told by anyone, if it doesn't sound right I'll question it or look up further info What is yours based on? no one is doing that

Last time I went in a supermarket I didn't see thousands of people start jumping and hugging each other at sporadic moments based on events around them...

Apple and Google blocked the original NHSX (nothing to do with NHS) app because they wanted to store information on symptoms and locations on a centralised database. This raised privacy concerns. Again, you can question or disagree with elements of this without going against everything. This was a bad move from the government and rightly was blocked.

Here's a clue, covid passport wasn't required to get into Wembley, a negative test was - which you can self-report a fake test. People went to Wembley sick, I'm almost certain of that (in part because I know at least one person who did). Plus, no one ever said you couldn't catch covid if you've had both jabs, it just reduces the impact to you and your transmission.

Who here is "trusting the government by default" I dont trust them, I detest Boris and I think they are at best completely incompetent and at worst... well I hope some of their evil actions aren't deliberate. What a lot of you conspiracy theorists can't grasp is that it's not all in one side or the other - it's not believe absolutely everything you're told or think it's all a big conspiracy. You can pick apart the facts, the science, the evidence and make decisions on each part of it for yourself. Not trusting the government doesn't mean everything they say or do is a lie, especially as I say the things that can be backed up by science or evidence. Unfortunately, what I see from the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists is the same crap copy and pasted and you can pull apart half of their argument with facts. For example, I seen someone share a big post on FB at the weekend, some fairly reasonable questions that I dont know the answer too - but within it were things like "millions of people have suffered injury from the vaccine" citing the VAERS data as if it's fact that all those responses are caused BY the vaccine, which they aren't. I agree many things don't add up, but that doesn;t mean Covid doesn't exist or it's all made up to control the population. It means we have an incompetent government who in fairness to them have never had to deal with anything like this before. They've made bad decisions for whatever reason, that doesn't mean the virus is made up or "just a flu". I actually seen someone saying that all the excess deaths were caused by lockdowns and lack of medical attention to other emergencies. These just aren't evidence based views.

It's not "only" been allowed because we are in a pandemic. It was just allowed to be developed while trials took place because of the emergency. had it failed the trials, it would have been a waste of money. That was the gamble to get it produced quicker. What about the fear of those who are scared of taking it because of made up predictions about infertility? I think anyone who is scaremongering and predicting things based on absolutely zero evidence just "their political view of the world" are brainwashed. Copying things from Facebook and other propoganda sites without being able to think for themselves. They all copy and paste the same crap, that's not critical thinking.

Of course they won't, no matter what timescale you put on it they'll say its not been long enough. How long do you need to wait to see if fertility rates drop? By then he'll be on to the next conspiracy. @Riaz says he's "not been scared into taking the vaccine" but can't see that's he's been scared into not taking it. Which is worse?

Why is it wrong? I'll repost this again: https://vaccine.unchealthcare.org/science/vaccine-approval/whats-the-difference-between-fda-emergency-use-authorization-and-fda-approval/ It's gone through the same trial stages and testing, it's just been accelerated and emergency approval allowed it to be developed whilst being trialled. Again, yes they have. Try travelling to some countries without a polio vaccination for example or booster and you may be refused entry ?

This link explains it quite well: https://vaccine.unchealthcare.org/science/vaccine-approval/whats-the-difference-between-fda-emergency-use-authorization-and-fda-approval/ A lot of the delay is usually funding and paperwork and obviously this has been prioritised Also the emergency approval just means it can be produced whilst still in trial to speed up the process. It still went through all the same trials

So you’re making a random prediction based on nothing scientific or any evidence? Just completely made up. Paranoid isn’t the word.

Based on what? is there any scientific evidence that this could even be possible or just making it up?

Why is the app over sensitive ? Why has no one picked up on this in the last 12 months since it’s creation? it’s doing exactly what it’s intended to do, the problem is there are so many people testing positive and no social restrictions. Even forgetting the argument of should we or shouldn’t we open up, it’s just obvious that more people are having contact with sick people. If there was a plethora of people getting pinged through walls why didn’t it happen on january?

At least ones gone missing

You’re still doing it ”millions injured” is not what that report is saying

England beat Germany a week after the Mrs got her jab, it was because of the vaccine that we beat the Germans

You know what, you misrepresented what you shared. You said more people have died from the vaccine than healthy people have died from Covid and then shared "evidence" that clearly said this does not mean those people died because of the vaccine.

That's not the point I was making. Your elderly parent / grand parent probably doesn't have the same survival rate - at least if you knew you'd been around someone you might put off seeing them for a couple of days. Can you not see the sense in that? You don't legally have to isolate if you get "pinged" by the app, so there's zero reason not to have it other than saving your conscience so if you don't know you are spreading a deadly virus you don't have to worry. Pure selfishness IMO.

Why would you not want to know you've potentially been around someone with Covid? Just forget following the instructions for a second, as that's not legally binding so you could ignore it. You could even delete the app and re-install it to get rid of the counter Knownig that you've possibly been around someone with covid at least allows you to be a bit more cautious, perhaps stay away from your vulnerable family member for a couple of days, get a test if it makes you feel better It just seems a bit insane to not even want to know if you could. If an app told you that you might have cancer would you download it? What if it gave you advanced warning of a heart attack or stroke? ( I appreciate that might be bad examples as Im sure many people would say everythings meant to be and they'd rather not know, but you get the drift...)

Why would you delete the app?

You said more people have died from the vaccine than healthy people have died from Covid. That's an outright lie.

Sharing disinformation is likely to discourage people though, especially on the football side where most people probably don't give a shit and dont pay too much attention - so to see something worrying like "more people have died from the vaccine than covid" might stand out to them. FWIW though I've said all along that I didn't like the idea of domestic vaccine passports because probably naively I didnt expect us to have 60k cases a day when we decided to remove all restrictions

I can fully understand that perspective. My friend broke his leg playing football, wasn't given the right medication after and suffered a blood clot and now can't play football again because it screwed his lungs up. I wouldn't go and tell people not to have an operation though. Another friends sister has suffered a blood clot after the vaccine. It's very sad that happened but it's statistically so rare. You are entitled to not take the vaccine, you are entitled to tell people your story and let them make their own decision. You shouldn't though manipulate data to suit your narrative and try and co-erce people into not taking the vaccine. You say " I havent been scared into taking the vaccine" - no you've been scared into not taking it by false information. I'm only so passionate about this because I am desperate to get back to normality. That doesn't happen if we don't get the population (world, not just us) vaccinated so as for third world countries which you mentioned, i've said all along I want to see us doing all we can to share our supplies. Everyone deserves the same opportunity to receive the jab.

It went through the same clinical trials as other vaccines, it just went quicker because of the man power and money that was put into it. It was given an emergency license so that it could start to be produced even before stage 3 trials were completed. No other reason The vaccine protects those at high risk. If 80% of the population let covid roam free it will mutate into something that the vaccine is ineffective against. Children is another matter I agree, I've stayed out of that debate and if you are wrong, and keep spreading this shit trying to discourage people from taking the jab then thousands more could die from Covid One of those scenarios is far more likely than the other based on evidence so far.

Sorry to do this in the football chat but these type of uneducated views need to be challenged. It's dangerous and it's stopping us from getting back to normal! First quote. That is people who have died AND have had the vaccine, not because. Correlation does not equal causation. Unfortunately, the people who had the vaccine first were the oldest and most vulnerable in society so as you pointed out with your very sympathetic "unhealthy" claim, they weren't in the best health and covid likely was the least of their concerns. This doesn't contradict my previous point, because these people still had every right to be protected from Covid. Second quote. This again is a list of symptoms people have had AND had the vaccine. Included in those symptoms are things such as suicide, abortion, pregnancy and even STIs. I'm sure you agree the vaccine didn't cause abortion or suicide? It's just things that have happened and coincidentally that person had the vaccine, because a large proportion of the population have had a jab. It does NOT mean that the vaccine caused those conditions. Third quote. 28 days reporting was used on Covid deaths because on average 88% of deaths occured within 28 days and 96% (i think) within 60 days. (was also used to bring the UK inline with other countries reporting metrics) Using that same figure for vaccines has zero relevance. It's a reporting measure that was able to capture deaths on a daily basis and provide an update. If you wait for the death certificate it could take weeks or longer. It is evident by the fact that deaths have plummeted that we do not have hundreds of people dying from other causes being put down as Covid, particularly as we have so many cases right now. If anything, more cases were missed because of this 28 day reporting. Take a look at the dashboard, deaths that include covid on the death certificate are significantly higher than the 28 day reporting figure - and excess deaths back this up.

Rushed? Not true. Second bold comment is not only untrue, but quite controversial. Firstly what do you define as "healthy" ? Take a look at the people who are high risk, do they not deserve to be safe? People receiving cancer treatment are high risk, many will survive their cancer diagnosis. My mum did and still here 15 years later, I'd be raging if at that moment someone declared her "unhealthy" and not worth worrying about. What about diabetics and ashmatics? They have health conditions but generally live pretty normal lives. Pregnant women are high risk, they unhealthy? (bit of a contentious point as they also aren't having the vaccine, but then agian we are vacinating to keep them safer) Third bold comment is quite frankly bollocks. How many people have died BECAUSE of the vaccine? This will help https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/monthlymortalityanalysisenglandandwales June = 4, May = 3. Cant be bothered to look back any further because the answer is clear. Even in October 4.5k people had died with no underlying health conditions: https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathswithnounderlyinghealthconditionsbrokendownbyage Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but yours is awful (and to be brutally honest uneducated) on this matter, and that's a shame because I usually agree with a lot of your points particularly in the politics side.